Mini Classifieds

1977 pinto rear bumper
Date: 04/19/2021 11:57 am
1975 Pinto bumpers
Date: 10/24/2019 01:45 pm
1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm
1979 Pinto 3-door Runabout *PRICE REDUCED*

Date: 01/21/2023 04:19 pm
Wanted 71-73 Pinto grill
Date: 03/09/2019 10:45 pm
WTB. Seat cover or material LFront
Date: 07/01/2019 03:17 pm
Tubing bender 1/2 to 2 1/2 (3) inch roll cage / mufflers and more

Date: 03/13/2021 12:57 pm
77 pinto cruz. wagon
Date: 06/15/2017 09:18 pm
1976-1979 FORD PINTO BOBCAT FRONT HOOD TRIM MOLDING D4FZ-16856-A OEM EXCELLENT

Date: 09/22/2020 11:33 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,457
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 562
  • Total: 562
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Fresh Motor Won't Start.

Started by From_Jonah, December 14, 2013, 07:17:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: amc49 on December 17, 2013, 01:40:28 AM
Doesn't matter where distributor ends up at as long as you have swing both ways to change timing and all parts like cap screws easy to get to. Rotor needs to be pointed at #1 and with crank on TDC but at the CORRECT TDC, there are two. One is at overlap and the other is at top of compression stroke, you need the second one or distributor 180 out like mentioned before.

You can use any post you want for #1 as long as the ones following are in the correct firing order.
What he said!..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Doesn't matter where distributor ends up at as long as you have swing both ways to change timing and all parts like cap screws easy to get to. Rotor needs to be pointed at #1 and with crank on TDC but at the CORRECT TDC, there are two. One is at overlap and the other is at top of compression stroke, you need the second one or distributor 180 out like mentioned before.

You can use any post you want for #1 as long as the ones following are in the correct firing order.

From_Jonah

First off, thanks for all the help everyone! I think I'm moving in the right direction anyway.

So here's the two 2300 diagrams I have in my Chiltons book. The tabs on my distributor are like the one that it shows for 1974, but my car is an 80 model.



1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can't find her again.)

Bigtimmay

easiest way to time these motors is set the crank to TDC and then use the string method http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/CamTiming/Cam%20Timing%20Belt%20Replacement%20and%20Set%20Up.htm

Once your sure the belts on perfect then drop your dizzy in to the correct spot and install your wires and you should be GTG.
If it doesn't start after that get a compression tester and see if you have a valve open or not opening. But it sounds like yah got the timing off sometimes setting the timing can be a pain if using the stock markings.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

71pintoracer

Distributor is 180* out. Firing order is the same for all 2.3 engines, so I'm not sure what you mean by changing the wire position to an '80 model vs. a '74.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

amc49

'I think there is a specific way to set the lifters up on these motors. Can't recall what it is cause mine is solid lifter, but think if it isn't done valves will not fully close= no compression.

Correct, the check gets done if you ground valves or moved them around. Commonly undone in the old days and gave guys with new motors pure fits.

Used to be a number Ford gave to check valve clearance on 2.3 with hydraulic lifters, collapse lifter and then fit valve in hole with a follower and that clearance then gets measured between base of cam lobe and follower. It guarantees the working assembly is in the middle of the hydraulic travel of lifter for very long life. If valve now ends up being too long after the machine work the lifter runs out of internal adjustment travel while shrinking in height and holds valve open. Needless to say engine not gonna run very well if at all like that. I heard of guys doing that all through the '70s, then they invariably blamed the engine for being a crap motor and where a lot of anti-2.3 BS came from back then. People with no sense.

Here we go, I found the number, called 'collapsed lifter gap' in '80 Ford service manual and on 2.3 with hydro lifters, .040"-.050". The clearance puts the lifter seat right about in the middle of its' travel or I'm thinking around .080" total travel there. It guarantees the valves will be closed at proper time.

amc49

'74 is a point distributor, and asking for start up issues there. The points have to be set correct gap or no coil dwell and your exact issue. If you have '79 or 80 distributor and the box for it miles ahead using it. All those years distributor position and plug wiring the same.

74 PintoWagon

Something is definitely out of time, I would just start over and make sure everything is right and save a lot of guess work.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Clydesdale80

by "V" on the cam he means the V-shape formed by the two cam lobes for cylinder #1.  The V-shape should be right side up when crank is at TDC.  If the V is upside down, your cam timing is 180 degrees off
Bought a 1978 hatchback to be my first car.

From_Jonah

I tried retarding the timing a bit and now it's backfiring a lot.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can't find her again.)

From_Jonah

Also, what do you mean about the V on the cam being up?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can't find her again.)

From_Jonah

I do have spark. I had a little confusion and still do about my distributor though. According to my Chiltons manual, I have the 74 model distributor in my car but my car is an 80. I had the plug wires plugged in like a 74, so this morning I changed it to like the 80 model and it's trying to start but only for just a second. And when it does it shoots huge flames out the tailpipe.

1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can't find her again.)

rramjet

I think there is a specific way to set the lifters up on these motors. Can't recall what it is cause mine is solid lifter, but think if it isn't done valves will not fully close= no compression.

D.R.Ball

Spark plug wiring correct ? Have you tested the duraspark module etc....Are you sure the crank is timed correctly . Have you removed the spark plug number 1 and used a dowel to check to see if the crank is really at top dead center. And finally is the cam on number 1 have a V up or is it down. The V should be up on number one....

74 PintoWagon

Did you pull a plug wire and check to see if you have spark??..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

From_Jonah

So I just rebuilt the 2.3 in the wagon. Everything is torqued right, as far as I can tell, the timing is right on the cam, crank and aux. The distributor rotor is in the right place. It's firing. And I can't get the thing to start. I can't even get it to try. It'll turn over and I've poured some gas in the carb but it just won't start.

Anyone have any ideas on something I could be missing or something I'm getting wrong?
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Can't find her again.)