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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Thought I'd put my 73 wagon here

Started by dianne, September 25, 2013, 07:21:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

dianne

I gotta tell you, each time I think I'm close to paint, I need more work to make it as perfect as I can get it. So far I think I have the front fender done. Weather looks good so I did some work today. I ordered lacquer primer and it didn't come last week, I couldn't wait so sanded the heck out of Milo. I'll prime it when it gets in. I think I'm closer now LOL - said that before. Hoping to paint within the next month or so. I'm getting the Maverick back soon, I hope, and I'll have to sand the stuffins out of that one.

Here it is so far, getting those ridges out of the paint where you grind is a pain!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

First off let me tell you your white Pinto looks awesome. I've been eye balling that white wagon also!

Dave has a center console in his Pinto that looks awesome in there! I need to find one in tan honestly. I had a Mustang II I bought new in 1974 after selling my 1970 Boss 302 (don't laugh at me, there was a gas shortage).

Thanks!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Wittsend

Well, a Mustang II person will debate that they and Pinto's are the same.  Regardless, there are many direct swap parts and others that work with little adaptation.  In the case of your '73 there are less parts that cross over.  '71-'73 Pinto's are their own animal.  And, FYI the '73 has a "one year only" steering rack.

Common parts that swap are:
8" rear end
Wheels
2.3 - V6 engine/parts
Transmissions (2.3 - V6)

Various interior parts (may require some modification):
Seats
Center console

Others will likely know more. I'm just going of the top of my sleepy morning head.

Tom

dianne

So you can take Mustang II parts and place them on the Pinto? I had a new Mustang II in 1974, I sold the Boss 302 (yeah I know). I never looked under the car to be honest. Someone told me the Mustang II was based on the Pinto, kinda like the Monza and the Vega. So you can replace the shock mounts from a Mustang II in a Pinto? Hmmmmm

I don't need to change anything I guess, but that's good to know. More parts for a Mustang than a Pinto, kind of like more parts for a 1970 Mustang than a Maverick.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Wow, I've never seen a Pinto shock with an eyelet mount! Every Pinto shock I have ever seen was with threaded rod at both ends, and I've been under over 20 Pintos (maybe 9 were wagons), about 15 of them at junk yards (to be fair :P).

From the sounds of it, you may have a Mustang II lower shock mount (that's where the eyelet end is secured, correct?), since most of the Mustang II suspension in Pinto swappable.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: bbobcat75 on October 17, 2013, 07:29:05 AM
DIANNE YOUR REAR SHOCK MOUNT ON THE TOP OF THE SHOCK IS WAY DIFFRENT THEN MY WAGON I DONT EVEN HAVE THAT BRACKET IN MINE!!
SO I WOULD SEE WHY THERE IS SO MUCH CONFUSION OUT THERE IN PINTO LAND!!! LOL

I HAVE ADDED PICTURES OF THE 2 DIFFERENT SHOCKS I HAVE USED THE FIRST ONE IS FOR THE SEDAN/HATCH AND THE SECOND IS A WAGON SHOCK!!

TAKE CARE

Of all the Pintos I've seen, the top one is the only one I ever saw on the two wagons. Mine and the 1970 I ran into at Walgreens one day. The shock mount on top is what I've seen on the other wagon. I haven't looked at any hatchbacks to be honest.

I think the initial confusion came from someone trying to make a joke I guess...


Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

bbobcat75

DIANNE YOUR REAR SHOCK MOUNT ON THE TOP OF THE SHOCK IS WAY DIFFRENT THEN MY WAGON I DONT EVEN HAVE THAT BRACKET IN MINE!!
SO I WOULD SEE WHY THERE IS SO MUCH CONFUSION OUT THERE IN PINTO LAND!!! LOL

I HAVE ADDED PICTURES OF THE 2 DIFFERENT SHOCKS I HAVE USED THE FIRST ONE IS FOR THE SEDAN/HATCH AND THE SECOND IS A WAGON SHOCK!!


TAKE CARE

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

dianne

LOL Dave, that should clear it up ;)

Now let's start the bodywork on that car of yours :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

OFFICIAL NOTICE (I feel like this needs to be made known to avoid confusion later):

I used to be the owner of this 1973 Pinto Station Wagon, previously known here as "Brownie". I sold it to Dianne in September 2013, hoping the restoration I originally started with would be continued, and the car would be loved and cherished by someone as much as it was when in my possession.

Dianne has more than exceeded my expectations with the car and love she has for this car, and it really re-lights that "Pinto Fire" I had two years ago, getting be back into the Pinto Scene and working on my own 1978 Sedan again.



Back on topic, there was a member somewhere here that has used sedan gas shocks on their station wagon (all years use the same shock, same for non-wagons). I remember this because I actually consulted their post prior to attempting the use of my old, but still good, rear shocks from my 78 sedan to hold me off until I was able to source proper station wagon shocks.

When properly installed with the spacer, it poses no threat to the function of the shock, and operates just as it should without over extension.

Once I got the proper shocks for the station wagon, I switched over to those and put the sedan ones back into my 78's spare parts pile for when mine were to go out again


EDIT: Here is the thread I got my info from. Wittsend's reply is my reference.

http://www.fordpinto.com/your-project/rear-shocks-for-wagon/msg81808/#msg81808
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

LOL I guess. Like I said before, it's 5 o'clock somewhere ;)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

jeremysdad

It's the internet. :) Calm down.

Here, I'll spell it out for you: "This was a joke aimed at people that lived (read: lived outside, with the Earth) from, oh...idk...the discovery of America, and really understood that their dead Uncles/Grandfathers/Great-Grandfathers might have done something better than we (this includes you) did. Yeah...so we just burned ants. with their magnifying glasses. Cause they told us to go do something other than annoy them, since we really didn't want to change their diapers. Lol. :)

Well...really?????????????????

God, damn, etc. Please, delete whatever I said in err.

dianne

Quote from: jeremysdad on October 16, 2013, 07:46:19 PM
Everything after this was humor (quoting myself): "Warning: I admitted I probably missed something.  lol So the shocks went in the Blue (Sedan/Runabout/not a wagon) car, then?"

Backing away...carry on.

Ummmmm, so you were attempting humor with all of that?

QuoteThat's a tidbit worthy of the FAQ's (cause it's a 'forum' specific thing (people can Google to get anywhere, but once there, they're lost...cause there's no button that says 'Search.')...people don't know what the magnifying glass means. Or they have to join to search!!! (Ummm...so search once, at least, please, before posting.)

Was that an attempt at humor Sir? Most of it is ambiguous as I said and I didn't understand what you were saying, maybe hitting the moonshine because it's 5:00 somewhere? So was that an attempt at humor? Help me understand. It seems like an attempt to troll me Sir.

I am trying to understand the intent of that response from you. Please explain. It honestly was an attempt at humor? You certain about that?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

jeremysdad

Everything after this was humor (quoting myself): "Warning: I admitted I probably missed something.  lol So the shocks went in the Blue (Sedan/Runabout/not a wagon) car, then?"

Backing away...carry on.

dianne

Quote from: jeremysdad on October 16, 2013, 06:45:35 PM
Warning: I admitted I probably missed something. :) lol So the shocks went in the Blue (Sedan/Runabout/not a wagon) car, then?

The air shocks went into the brown wagon (was Brownie is now Milio). Dave, the blue sedan not a wagon, just ordered his air shocks yesterday on ebay. So his car will have them without having to use spacers. Dave posted a picture from the mechanic's place to show the installation of Pinto air shocks manufactured for a sedan/hatchback/runabout in the Pinto wagon with the spacers. I hope that made it clearer.

QuoteThat's a tidbit worthy of the FAQ's (cause it's a 'forum' specific thing (people can Google to get anywhere, but once there, they're lost...cause there's no button that says 'Search.')...people don't know what the magnifying glass means. Or they have to join to search!!! (Ummm...so search once, at least, please, before posting.)

I'm not certain what you are saying I did wrong and what I should have done before I posted. Are you saying that I should have searched the FAQs to see if someone else posted something about using standard Pinto shocks in a Wagon? Someone told me on a thread that there would be a difference and spacers should be used. In this thread I was discussing what I did on my Pinto, not for a FAQ, but what I had done on my wagon.

Again, are you telling me I posted something incorrectly on her Sir? Please explain yourself.

QuoteJust a lesson, whipper-snappers...that means 'I can't see what I'm looking for, so I'm "searching for it"! Or...I'm bored...so I'm going to burn ants.' They were, for the record, extremely handy for finding things like too-small fonts in encyclopedias.)

Again, I have no clue on the reference here and if you're trying to explain something. Are you attempting to teach me how to use a forum? I run one, I know how they work. Is it a specific rule as to what is allowed and I've broken some rule on the explanation of the air shocks on my wagon? You're somewhat ambiguous on your explanation and I am uncertain what you are trying to get across.

QuoteIf you want to know how to set fire to stuff with a magnifying glass, just Google it. I'm going back to the UK for cam selection advice. :) lol

I don't understand what point you're trying to get across. Maybe after you're finished with the UK for cam selection advise you can tell me. Again, this is a thread on my project of my 1973 Pinto Wagon. If you read the thread you would probably have understood what is/was going on. If you're trying to tell me something, just say it...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

jeremysdad

Warning: I admitted I probably missed something. :) lol So the shocks went in the Blue (Sedan/Runabout/not a wagon) car, then?

That's a tidbit worthy of the FAQ's (cause it's a 'forum' specific thing (people can Google to get anywhere, but once there, they're lost...cause there's no button that says 'Search.')...people don't know what the magnifying glass means. Or they have to join to search!!! (Ummm...so search once, at least, please, before posting.)

Just a lesson, whipper-snappers...that means 'I can't see what I'm looking for, so I'm "searching for it"! Or...I'm bored...so I'm going to burn ants.' They were, for the record, extremely handy for finding things like too-small fonts in encyclopedias.)

If you want to know how to set fire to stuff with a magnifying glass, just Google it. I'm going back to the UK for cam selection advice. :) lol

dianne

Quote from: jeremysdad on October 16, 2013, 05:59:01 PM
I'm lost. You bought 'Brownie', yeah? Brownie, the wagon? So, the shocks should have been a direct bolt-in, or did somebody miss something somewhere along the thread (could have been me)?

Otherwise...you need the springs! Glad he helped you out to make it right though. That's stand-up stuff you don't see much in this country anymore. :)

Yes, I bought Brownie and now he's Milo. The shocks are for hatchbacks and I have a wagon, if you look at the picture Dave took at the mechanics, you'll see the spacers that were needed for them to fit correctly. The springs are still there ;)

I'm going to help Dave with his bodywork and he's a great guy! Found him the air shocks. Now we need his car painted bright yellow :D I'll spray it for him also!

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

jeremysdad

I'm lost. You bought 'Brownie', yeah? Brownie, the wagon? So, the shocks should have been a direct bolt-in, or did somebody miss something somewhere along the thread (could have been me)?

Otherwise...you need the springs! Glad he helped you out to make it right though. That's stand-up stuff you don't see much in this country anymore. :)

dianne

Thanks for doing that Dave! I'm also glad you're happy with what I'm doing to Milo!

We should get a Pinto gathering going here in Idaho!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dave1987

Yeah, mainly because no one here does it anymore.

Here are pictures of the new door panels I installed for her yesterday. I didn't think I would ever see the correct door panels on the car again, but they look great! :) Nice find Dianne!

Also below are pictures of the beautiful air shock mounting on the passenger side. The car looks amazing at the proper height in the rear, I didn't think it was THAT low until I saw it at the correct level height! Must ride nice! I can't wait for mine to arrive, and hope it helps the rear sag on the driver side!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dianne

Quote from: bbobcat75 on October 16, 2013, 11:21:14 AM
YES WAGON ONLY, THE HATCH BACK / SEDAN USES A DIFFERENT STYLE SHOCK, IM SURE THERE IS A AIR SHOCK FOR THEM, BUT LOOKS LIKE THE WAGONS SAG IN THE REAR MORE OFFTEN THEN THE HATCH / SEDANS!!!

TAKE CARE

BBOBCAT75

Actually, the shocks are pretty much the same with the exception of that 1 1/2". The spacer made it fit perfectly!!!

But mine sagged around 3" and this was a BIG improvement and better than spending almost $400.00 on new springs. Dave told me that rearcking these would have been more.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

bbobcat75

YES WAGON ONLY, THE HATCH BACK / SEDAN USES A DIFFERENT STYLE SHOCK, IM SURE THERE IS A AIR SHOCK FOR THEM, BUT LOOKS LIKE THE WAGONS SAG IN THE REAR MORE OFFTEN THEN THE HATCH / SEDANS!!!

TAKE CARE

BBOBCAT75
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

dianne

So a direct bolt in for a wagon? Didn't know that. Next set I'll remember. But that's for a wagon only I guess?

Thanks,

Dianne
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

bbobcat75

get a set of air shocks for a 1981 era firebird / camaro direct bolt in!!! had a used set from a u pull in my wagon and buddy aired them to like 100 psi and blow it up!!! wanted to see how high the rear would go!?!?!?

good luck


O the air shocks are for wagon only!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

dianne

Quote from: Pinturbo75 on October 15, 2013, 09:28:11 PM
air shocks?????? whered you find those and do they have more?...

These were on ebay. Dave bought a pair today for 60 bucks, mine were NOS and around 55 when I got them, had to get an air kit also, while Dave's had the air kit with them!

Keep looking, they seem to turn up once in awhile. The ones I used were not for a wagon, but a 1 1/2" spacer did the trick actually and they fit like a glove after that!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: ETPinto on October 15, 2013, 09:42:32 PM
Looking good! Dianne :)
I assume the blue 77-78 is Dave's?  nice looking car.  I have photos of my 77 I will scan and post soon.  It was Orange with Orange plaid interior, big glass sunroof and all glass hatch.  I never should of sold that car but I was young and foolish!  My Grandfather bought it for me for $500.00 as a wedding gift in 1987!  Man I miss that guy, he passed in 93, and a day does not pass that I dont think of him.

The blue is Dave's Pinto, the brown was his and I was lucky enough to get it! I'm trying to get it as close to new as I can. I had a Grabber Blue Boss 302, talk about wishing I still had that car :(

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. Post those pics :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ETPinto

Looking good! Dianne :)
I assume the blue 77-78 is Dave's?  nice looking car.  I have photos of my 77 I will scan and post soon.  It was Orange with Orange plaid interior, big glass sunroof and all glass hatch.  I never should of sold that car but I was young and foolish!  My Grandfather bought it for me for $500.00 as a wedding gift in 1987!  Man I miss that guy, he passed in 93, and a day does not pass that I dont think of him.

Pinturbo75

air shocks?????? whered you find those and do they have more?...
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

dianne

The end  ::)

I'll post more later. Dave is getting me a steering wheel like he has, door handles, and some other parts.

Those black panels I had listed Dave has and will be giving them to someone for shipping.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Some more pictures and one of the panels Dave put in for me. It's really nice to see the correct colors in there!

THANKS DAVE!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Had a visit from Dave who put in my door panels also today :-D Great guy and appreciates all the work I'm putting into this thing! It's not far from paint, but dang does it look good so far.

Air shocks went in today and now it's level as it should have been! Woo Hoo!

Some pics with Dave visiting Milo!!!

PS - TELL DAVE TO PAINT THE CAR YELLOW AND NOT RED!!! Yellow was original!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied