Mini Classifieds

Wanted 1971-73 pinto 2.0 4 speed manual transmission
Date: 03/06/2019 06:40 pm
Modine 427 Pinto Bobcat V6 Radiator appears new

Date: 09/17/2024 12:35 pm
rear hatch back louvers

Date: 04/18/2017 12:44 pm
1972 Rallye wagon rebuild
Date: 11/14/2020 07:31 pm
Pinto Wheel Well Trim
Date: 03/29/2017 11:35 am
2.8 Engine mount brackets
Date: 12/28/2016 11:42 am
Holley 4bbl carb. & Offenhauser intake.

Date: 08/09/2018 07:49 am
1971-73 2.0 motor moiunts
Date: 05/17/2024 09:18 pm
1978 ford pinto carb
Date: 02/04/2018 06:09 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 628
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 550
  • Total: 550
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Restoration Of my 1977 V-6 Pinto Crusing Wagon

Started by DBSS1234, May 07, 2013, 02:48:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Pintosopher

Quote from: DBSS1234 on April 16, 2014, 07:39:54 AM
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!! Fired up the motor last night for the first time since the rebuild. Last time I had heard it run was in 1992. Runs very nice but still needs a little fine tuning to be perfect. After watching all these auto restoration shows where there is always some major leak or other problem at first fire up it is nice to say "no leaks and the transmission is shifting fine". It is nice to have things go right once in awhile. :)
Always good to hear of a successful resurrection, The Holy Horses of our Olympic corral are pleased, Always ready with the feeler gauges...

Pintosopher, confidant to the Trek we all must engage! ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

bbobcat75

GREAT TO HEAR AND CONGRATS!!!   MOST OF THOSE TV SHOWS ARE A JOKE! A LOT OF WACK AND PACK - MAKE IT LOOK GOOD FOR TV!!

YOURS IS A TRUE RESTORATION WITH QUALITY WORK AND PARTS!! THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!!!

HOPE TO DO THAT TO MY 75 BOBCAT IN 35 YEARS WHEN IM RETIRED AND NEED A PROJECT!! TILL THEN JUST GOING TO CRUISE!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

DBSS1234

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!! Fired up the motor last night for the first time since the rebuild. Last time I had heard it run was in 1992. Runs very nice but still needs a little fine tuning to be perfect. After watching all these auto restoration shows where there is always some major leak or other problem at first fire up it is nice to say "no leaks and the transmission is shifting fine". It is nice to have things go right once in awhile. :)

Pinto5.0

I like the milk jug washer idea. I always used good masking tape to protect fresh paint but that seems faster.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

bbobcat75

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

DBSS1234

Finished painting the inside edges of the fenders and under the hood. Then I spent a little over 4 hours last night getting the doors, fenders and hood installed and the gaps as close to perfect as "Pintoly" possible. Ended up looking pretty darn good if I say so myself.
A little tip for anybody doing this, you will notice the thin plastic washers under the fender to body bolts. I made these from an old milk jug and use them to avoid damaging the paint when adjusting the fender into position. After everything looks good remove one bolt at a time, remove the washer, then reinstall the bolt.



DBSS1234

Unpainted parts are either blasted and clear coated or painted with a natural metal type of paint. I use a lot of Eastwood spray grey and detail grey. I buy it in the quart cans if available and use a touchup gun to spray it.

Reeves1

Super fine details on your restoration !
Better than new !

Q: the un-painted parts under the dash etc. Are you blasting/painting them ? I've been doing so with mine. Not worried about what was factory though. Just wanted no rust.

If I was doing one like you , I'd clear coat to preserve the bare metal look.

DBSS1234

Fuel tank is cleaned, detailed, and installed with new filller neck seal and a NOS fuel pick-up/level sender. Tank was very nice on the inside so all I did was tape off the openings, lightly sand blast, epoxy prime, and paint it with Eastwood tank-tone silver. I could see the remains of the USS stamp on the tank so I replicated it for that finishing touch. :D






DBSS1234

Finished installing a new interior for a customer in a Ford Model A 5 window so I am back onto my Pinto. Finished cleaning and polishing the wheel tire assemblies. I also installed a NOS set of center caps for that final touch! Before everybody asks where I found raised white letter 13" tires let me say they are old (second set ever on bought for this car) I figure I bought them about 1982 or so, still have about 80% tread! These are going to be my "show" tires for limited trips locally only. I also have another set of slotted wheels (though not as nice as these) that I plan on mounting new black wall tires on for longer trips.

Also got the front and rear bumpers polished and reassembled.


bbobcat75

1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

DBSS1234

Color could be changed on the pink one but the part number on the bottom starts with D7 with decodes to 1977. The door jamb decal should be the same unless I am mistaken.

bbobcat75

man wish I could use both of those on my 75 v6 bobcat!! the one looks the same but the pink one is neon green on my 75
can the color be changed??

thanks

eric
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Pinto5.0

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

DBSS1234

Got another decal remade. This time it is the vehicle emission control information decal found under the hood on our cars. This will be correct for all 1977 V-6 equipped cars. If anybody out there needs one I made extra and will sell them again for $7.00 including the postage to send one out.


74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

DBSS1234

Latest update on the progress of the restoration. Inside of the doors and the jamb area of the doors have been painted along with the inner workings (door latches and window regulators) getting cleaned, lubed and reinstalled (I even decided to use the correct rivets to reinstall the window regulator). I know I must be excessive compulsive!  :P
The seats and interior door panels cleaned up VERY nicely and look almost new!
Lastly I got the door frame tire size and air pressure decal reproduced. These should be correct for all Pintos 1975 thru 1978. If anyone needs one I had extra made and will let them go for $7.00 each including the postage.






mrskydog

Awsome Restoration on your Cruzing Wagon! I really would like to have one someday as nice as yours. I think they are so 70's ..Cool!!
Keep up the good work, I would love to see it someday.

Kirk  ;)
"Living the Dream...Driving Old Fords"
1965 Mustang 2+2 Fastback
1980 Pinto Rallye 32,000 Org.
1972 Maverick Grabber V-8 car
2005 Mustang

dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

DBSS1234

Another example of how quality was NOT job 1 at Ford in 1977. I was cleaning the inside of the doors after sandblasting and found these slugs in the doors. They evidently were left in the door after the hole for the stereo speaker wires were drilled. Not wonder my car had rattles I couldn't find! :P
 

dennisofaz


DBSS1234

Anyone following this restoration thread knows I am kind of a stickler for originality in my restorations. Along this line, I have never liked the look of modern sealed battries in old cars. It just doesn't look right.
To fix this problem I made a cover for the modern battery. First I got lucky and found an old Motorcraft vented type battery and cut the top off of it, enlarged the post holes, and repainted it with plastic paint. Then I went shopping for a battery that had the right dimensions and post spacing. That was the hard part but my local O'Reilly had one that worked. Here are pictures of my new battery with an old battery cover.


The modern battery installed, it just doesn't look at home in there does it?


Much better. The only give away is the height of the posts in the cable clamps! ;D

bbobcat75

when can I send my 75 bobcat over for the same treatment!!

looks great!
makes me want to do it today!! but don't have the time right now!! but retirement might be my time to do it!!!


later
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

DBSS1234

FINALLY got my brake booster back from the rebuilders so the engine compartment is done! I thought new cars have crowded engine compartments, this thing is busy under the hood and it doesn't even have A/C! Also my wife and I installed the windshield with a new gasket. The project is really starting to look like a car again.




bbobcat75

man this wagon is going to be built nicer and better then day 1!!!  great build keep up the great work!!  love all the detail work!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

DBSS1234

Making more progress, headliner is now installed! First picture is of the roof insulation and the second is of the headliner thru the windshield opening. Next is the windshield installation.




Cookieboystoys

Quote from: DBSS1234 on January 30, 2014, 01:30:53 PM
Thanks Cookie. I still plan on having it at Apple Valley for the all ford show in June. Might bring the 77 Cobra also, that way I would have a pair of 77's to show. ;D

Hot Dig-A-Dee!! I know where I'm gonna be in June = APPLE VALLEY!
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!