Mini Classifieds

Parting out 77 Bobcat Hatch
Date: 11/06/2017 04:16 pm
Seeking 1971-1973 Rotors
Date: 04/08/2021 12:23 pm
Pinto Engines and engine parts
Date: 01/24/2017 12:36 pm
Looking for Plastic? sloping headlight buckets for 77/78
Date: 06/19/2018 03:58 pm
1974 Ford Pinto

Date: 10/16/2017 10:45 am
New cam

Date: 01/23/2017 05:11 pm
1980 hood needed
Date: 04/23/2020 10:41 pm
Misc. Pinto parts

Date: 11/09/2019 04:25 pm
Squire trim
Date: 03/28/2018 10:11 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 624
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 574
  • Total: 574
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland

Started by frostedflakejake, January 11, 2013, 03:21:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

frostedflakejake

Alright! So it's been a few months and I have SOME progress.
Between two jobs and a girlfriend my time has been limited, but i'll stop making excuses now :)

I redid my gauges. I don't think i showed what they looked like before but I moved them and i think they look alot better now!
More importantly, I did all the body work on the vehicle. It was sanded, bondo was applied, rust was cut, patches were welded, more bondo, body skim was added, and it currently was almost a layer of black epoxy primer on it (no pictures of it black yet, i might shoot some tonight). I ran out of primer before doing a real solid coat. Next is to wet sand the car with 2000 and shoot it with more primer and then i think i'll drop it off at Maaco. Does anyone know how to remove the chrome strips that run across the roof of the runabout model? I tried popping them off but it really didn't seem like that was it. I even cut up my headliner to get to a bolt that was no where to be found...

Picture dump:





frostedflakejake

I installed an after market fuse box. I wouldn't really call it a fuse box... more of a fuse panel. Everything works well!
I decided to change it out after I randomly lost my tach and discovered that the power wire was just jammed next to a fuse. And the distributor and fuel pump and starter solenoid were all connected in a similar fashion.

Good luck on yours!

Pinto5.0

The wiring in my '73 is so bitched up that I plan to install an aftermarket fuse box/harness in it. Maybe that would be a viable option to clean up your mess as well.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

frostedflakejake

A few updates:

I got home thursday and decided the weekend was for fun and not work. Started re-doing the fuse box on Monday because as expected it was hacked into all over the place and bolts were used as fuses etc. etc. etc. I would show before and after pictures but I only have it functioning right now and not all neat and pretty. Tested the car, made it about a mile, got back home to discover my rear axle is leaking near the driver side wheel. Quite a lot. It's not going anywhere now until the seals get changed. Starting that tomorrow!

frostedflakejake

QuoteOnce you know the circuit works correctly, such as the headlights, make sure it is fused correctly and that any joints are soldered and insulated correctly.

Yeah no joke there! Whomever did this wiring used no solder as far as I can tell. Hell, the power wire to the distributor didn't even have the right size female spade terminal on it. It was way too big and I can't believe it didn't fall off on the drive home.

frostedflakejake

Hey thanks for your interest! :)

Mostly the car will just be used for weekend foolishness and something to work on when I get home from work. I'm not looking to get groceries or drive the thing to work; yet! It is a very, very crude machine. But for the time being, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I agree with you on the wiring as well. The last time I was with the car I was time constrained and thus very little real work got done. It's a gosh darn mess under the dash and under the steering column. There is clearly no effort put forth forward to making a harness of anykind; just all spaghetti! I can't stand it. It's likely nearly all of it will be redone. 

I go back to my parent's place in a few days so work will resume! I like to keep a schedule and make goals. Thus, I'm hoping to having the car finished (whatever the heck that means!) by July 4th.

pintoman1972

Hi Jake,

Looks like you have a drag car that someone put on the street. 

For the street you need reliability. 

Took me the most of 2 yeras to convert my BEAST to the street.  And wiring is a big issue.  Take your time going through the wiring.  Once you know the circuit works correctly, such as the headlights, make sure it is fused correctly and that any joints are soldered and insulated correctly.

To make sure my wiring was correct I even pulled out the dash and dropped the steering column to get at it all.  Sure it took time and was a pain in the butt.  But once it was done it was worth all the effort. 

One circuit at a time and then YOU know it is correct.

Good luck and let us know how you are progressing along.

Dick

frostedflakejake

Woah. That's different. I'm going to try fixing the rattle some more before I go out and replace a perfectly working fuel pump.

Here is the ebay link to the bumper I "won".
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-1972-ford-pinto-rear-bumper-/380614768427?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=jeZRK2%252BSs1gN1hD6%252FbED%252F7TBLfc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Reeves1


frostedflakejake

Here's a picture of the solid rubber mounted fuel pump

frostedflakejake

Found a bumber without the holes for the guards on ebay. Awaiting to hear back from the seller to see if I'm going to jump on it.

Spending some time researching/reading concerning getting what I want out of the cleveland. Which is ~400 and ~400 at the crank somewhere before 5k rpm.

Mostly school is kicking my butt. 4 weeks left, 8 exams, two reports, two papers. Also trying to prep myself for my internship at Ford as well. I'm a busy, busy kid. 

frostedflakejake

QuoteSounds like you need to find out why the outer coating melted in the first place

I'm guessing heat from the motor working on 41 year old jackets did it. I see no other logical explanation for why these small sections of the wires had melted jackets as opposed to the whole wire. Their location in relation to the headers also kinda made sense. The wires are all (now) as far away as the motor as they can be while still being in the engine bay. I removed as many pointless wires as I could, but alot of them ran behind the steering column into the fusebox and I couldn't even jimmy my way down there (pretty small guy), So i left them in case I get the motivation to do so and figure out what I do/don't need.

I'm not too worried about my splices to be honest. They are male/female spade terminals with the wires crimped and soldered into the terminals and then the two terminals soldered together as well. Then covered in shrink tube. I do understand that it would be best to replace the whole wire, but it would also take 20x the work. If I have a problem with the splice (ended up only using one because the 2nd I did I later found out was useless), then I will re-run the whole wire. It's not something extremely important. I think it's either a headlight or a turn signal.

Reeves1

Sounds like you need to find out why the outer coating melted in the first place. You may need to re-route the way they run.
I do not like splicing wires. The splices can cause problems. Best (if you can) replace the whole wire.
If it has shorted out the whole wire will have heat damage.

frostedflakejake

Okay, so maybe I got a little ahead of myself ;)
After ripping up the old harness I figured only a few wires here and there needed to be removed/replaced so that's all I did. Figured out the starter had absolutely nothing to do with what I was monkey-ing with but was actually just remote wire on the solenoid switch for the starter had a crappy connection and my pulling on the harness loosened it enough to get it to loosen up.

So I fixed a few wires, put a new power wire lead on the distributor because the old one was barely even on the terminal and was all hacked up, and I also redid the battery ground to beefier wire (pics tomorrow!).

I really want to put the rear valence on the car but i don't see much point if I'm going to have to continue to mess with the fuel pump/fuel lines the quiet the vibration I'm getting. I'm thinking of just replacing all the hard fuel lines with rubber compound ones to see if that takes care of the rattle. Some of the fuel line is rotten so a section has to be replaced anyways.

I also need to redo the alternator lead because it's somewhere around a 12awg wire trying to carry a claimed 75 amps. Actually. Come to think of it. I spent all that time under the hood and I have no clue how the hell the alternator is charging the battery with the current wiring setup. Whatever, i'll figure it out tomorrow.

frostedflakejake

QuoteGet the battery tested before chasing a drain that may not exist. 9 out of 10 times the battery is junk.

Yeah I did. Well, actually, I went to get a new one and have the store dispose of this one because it seeps when it charges,  But they wouldn't take it because they tested it and they said it was good to go.

Also, I replaced two sections of wires in the car where the jacket had melted and there was just exposed wire. Now I go to hit the switch that should activate the starter and I get nothing. One of the wires I know I did correctly because it was the same color through and through and I just replaced a small section. I also replaced a ground wire but made the mistake of cutting the wire first and then going in the garage to make the wire with the ring terminal on the end. Got back out to the car and saw TWO cut black wires waiting for me to connect my new piece to. I connected it to the one I could have sworn I cut, but evidently I didn't. So today I have to fix that. I freed the entire harness and also found several more wires that had melted jackets on it that needed replacement. I think I'll just re-do the whole wiring. Shouldn't take me more than two days (i hope, cause i leave in three!). It's something I've done before and something that I think needs to be done so i figured why not? It would really look better too. There are so many dead wires from everything that's been removed from the car.

And it's actually blue skies today! YAY! No more working in snow.
Oh, my solid rubber isolation mounts for the fuel pump didn't work at all. I really thought they would because they did before. I'm starting to wonder if it's not the fuel pump that's making the noise but one of the hard fuel lines attached to the fuel pump vibrating on the body of the car. That also has to be fixed. It's so loud.

racer99

Your wiring is fine compared to the V8 Ranger I got in a trade.

Pinto5.0

Get the battery tested before chasing a drain that may not exist. 9 out of 10 times the battery is junk.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

frostedflakejake

Oh I almost forgot! The carb is not a holley carb. It is an AED race carb.

frostedflakejake

Yes i figured it had something to do with the bending process.

Used these nifty rubber isolation mounts for my fuel pump (pics tomorrow). hopefully it stops the horrrrrrrrrrrrible ruckus that it used to make. Something is also draining the battery with key power off (imagine that!!!) so I get to chase that rabbit soon; yayyyy.

It snowed today :| I was quite unamused but I worked in it regardless. Replaced two wires under the hood that had sections that were melted and had bare wire exposed. I'll be testing them tomorrow to see if they are a short. Could also explain the battery draining if they are indeed key-off power.

racer99

Them aint dents,thats where the tubing bender shoes
collapsed the pipe while bending.

frostedflakejake

First, the beautiful job someone did with the battery lead (note the wire color  ??? )


ahhhh much better now :)



Here are my "motor mounts"



Some sort of Holley Carb



Back side of the passenger side of the engine compartment



Front side. Showing the brand new alernator I bought....



I wonder where this is supposed to go......


And that black wire...


275's on the rear





Uniform dent on both pipes?




Lift bars



She takes on a little water...

frostedflakejake

Soon Soon! I also paid more attention and realized my exhaust is bigger than 3" out of the collector (probably 3.5") and is then cut down right at the collector to 3".

I bought some wire today with the hope of fixing some of the dangerous looking wiring under the hood.
Tomorrow i'll upload more pics of the car as well as pics of the front valence and hood I have purchased!

Reeves1


frostedflakejake

So it's supposed to rain all day. Fantastic.
Managed to figure out the exhaust out of the collectors is 3" and the collectors are indeed flat.
The intake is an offenhauser.

frostedflakejake

So I got the car back today.

+1 to the asshat who "wired" this car. Other than doing shotty work everywhere they touched, they also decided to make red battery lead ground and the black battery lead power. Of course by the time I figured it out I had cooked the alternator. Wasted 3 hours or so replacing the alt.

It was a 60 mile drive home. Rides at about 2600rpm at 55-60mph. Oil pressure at ~55 psi and temp at 180. Wrote up myself a big list of things to do. Including replacing the rotting fuel lines. With the leak it took be about 5 gallons to do the 60 mile trip.

I gotta get to bed! I got work to do! :)

Reeves1

No tubs on your car ?
Before working out your tires/rims, you need to know the width of the diff.
Contact a good tire shop & they should be able to help you out.
You'll need a bunch of measurements.

You may have custom headers.

frostedflakejake

I do believe my engine is moved forward, actually i'm pretty damn positive it is. But i'm also pretty sure that my collectors are not flat. The collector is also huge. Probably 3.5". Bigger than 3" for sure.

Just trying to piece things together. When I get home in a few weeks I'm going to double check all my guess-timating before ordering wheels, tires, mufflers, and cutouts.

What do most guys run for performance tires? I'm having a hell of a time finding wheels and tire combos that fit both rear and front

Reeves1

Sounds right for the 351c collectors. Tubes are likely 1-7/8" or 2".
But Headman no longer makes them. They required front mounts for the engine.

Used set of what you may have ? For 351c & BOSS 302.




frostedflakejake

Sorry for asking so many questions, but I found a rather unreliable looking website list the hedman hussler collector diameters at 3.5" for my application.
Can anyone confirm that?

frostedflakejake

Can i run 8" wide wheels in the back without spacers?
How wide can I run in the front?