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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

What is this?

Started by From_Jonah, January 03, 2013, 10:02:04 PM

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johnbigman2011

From a smog pump to having the Big Boss step in.. Be careful!! :o


1972 Trunk Model..... Yeller Feller
1979 Wagon Turbo.... 85 2.3 Turbo
1923 T- Bucket ...... 2.0 Pinto Powered
F 250 Redneck Lincoln .... Pinto Picker upper

dga57

Quote from: Grumpy on January 21, 2013, 01:57:20 PM
dga57




OK, I have said what I think needed said. I would not have brought the subject up at all if others had not. And I found the original political post highly offensive. Let's hope ALL get the message clearly and no more offensive posts appear. Peace.


Grumpy


Thank you very much... that's all I asked.
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: blupinto on January 21, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
lol funny how the identification of a smog pump devolved into a discussion of modern politics.

Unfortunitely a huge part of our hobby is intertwined with politics. Emissions, fines, the high price of gas, clunker laws, bailouts, inspections, you name it, all have a political party trying to savage our hobby.

Ethanol blending is political, battery disposal, getting rid of old tires....all political issues. It's an unfortunite fact of our lives that we are fighting a losing battle to keep what's ours.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Grumpy

dga57


QuoteOkay guys, we've had point and counterpoint.  I let this ride initially because I believe in the concept of free speech, but I think we've had quite enough politics for now... let's drop it and get back to talking about our Pintos.  As for the rest of it, just agree to disagree.  Fair enough?[/size]dga57[/size]Moderator



OK, I have said what I think needed said. I would not have brought the subject up at all if others had not. And I found the original political post highly offensive. Let's hope ALL get the message clearly and no more offensive posts appear. Peace.


Grumpy
79 Pinto Hatch, Yellow w/White Pony stripes, Pony wheels, 6650 miles

Grumpy

74pintoguy


QuoteI just want to find another Pinto...if I wanted politics I would spend the day with my in-laws.




That was MY point. Pinto5.0 can take his political garbage elsewhere. If he hadn't posted such crap in an inappropriate forum I would have never called him down for doing it and this conversation would have never come up. See how that works?


I threw my Right Wing nutjob uncle out of my house on Thanksgiving several decades ago, just before I threw his communist son(a Left Wing nutjob)out with him FOR THE SAME REASON. Neither is welcome in my house anymore. Was I at fault for expelling disruptive and contentious behavior from an inappropriate venue? No. And I am not wrong here either.


Pinto5.0


QuoteI have & always do


So explain how Agenda 21 has anything at all to do with someone asking about a smog pump? The answer(It doesn't)puts the lie to the above claim. You started this by injecting your toxic spew where it did not belong. You've evidently had this problem before but you just can't help yourself. Keep your politics out of forums not about politics, like this one. Red State will welcome you with open arms, but here it is offensive non-sense and I, for one, am sick and tired of it. You will get that same correction in your behavior every time I see it. Best for all if it doesn't happen again. Your choice.


blupinto


Quotelol funny how the identification of a smog pump devolved into a discussion of modern politics. I for one am for this site being about the Pintos, of the Pintos and for the Pintos (Bobcats too) and I'm sure a political thread could be started in the Off Topic section. I don't like getting verbally attacked because of my point of view. I doubt other people are keen on it either. I hope I'm not being scoldy 'cause I don't mean to be.
[size=78%]Couldn't agree more. But these guys will continue to think they have a right to inject their politics anywhere until the rest of us start calling them on it. That is what I did. I did not start this, but I will damn well see an end to it, one way or another. If this forum devolves into a political cesspool it will be because we said nothing to stop it. If they don't like people talking back in the face of their inappropriate non-sense, then they can stop posting it and talk only about Pintos. It may seem harsh, but it is what is required to preserve this forum for it's intended purpose. I won't hide behind a moderator, nor will I hide what I have to say in a PM. It was a public offense calling for a public rebuke.[/size]


Grumpy
8)
79 Pinto Hatch, Yellow w/White Pony stripes, Pony wheels, 6650 miles

dga57

Okay guys, we've had point and counterpoint.  I let this ride initially because I believe in the concept of free speech, but I think we've had quite enough politics for now... let's drop it and get back to talking about our Pintos.  As for the rest of it, just agree to disagree.  Fair enough?
dga57
Moderator
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

lol funny how the identification of a smog pump devolved into a discussion of modern politics. I for one am for this site being about the Pintos, of the Pintos and for the Pintos (Bobcats too) and I'm sure a political thread could be started in the Off Topic section. I don't like getting verbally attacked because of my point of view. I doubt other people are keen on it either. I hope I'm not being scoldy 'cause I don't mean to be.  :)
One can never have too many Pintos!

74pintoguy

I just want to find another Pinto...if I wanted politics I would spend the day with my in-laws.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: r4pinto on January 21, 2013, 11:03:15 AM
This is insane guys, Let's keep it civil & on topic

I have & always do even though I was called a racist amongst other things. I get a kick out of those who haven't dated outside their race making declarations about those who have. It really is hilarious  ;)
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

r4pinto

This is insane guys, Let's keep it civil & on topic
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

DBSS1234

Based on this thread Grumpy's user name seems appropriate!  ;)

Pinto5.0

LMAO.....WOW, I don't even need to respond beyond this  ;D ;D ;D ;D
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Grumpy

79prostreet

QuoteI for one find it odd that you even know what Glenn Beck says, or you a closet listener?[/font][/size]
"Know your enemy" Sun TzuI wouldn't waste a moment of my time actually watching the dreck that is Glenn Beck. But I do keep up with the Right Wingnuts as they are what is wrong with our country. The ignorant wing of either party should be watched(I don't like Dennis Kusinich any better than GB).I also find it odd that the only way you view are two term President is that he is black, and to refer to him as a janitor cleaning up a white mans mess may border on racist.[/font][/size]
Quote[size=78%]That is how the Right Wing treats our President. They made the mess, left the economy in the tank and then have the gall to complain that he isn't cleaning up the mess they made fast enough.[/size]
I also find it odd that you could have moved right past this post and went on to something that does not cause your gears to grind so hard.[/font][/size]
Quote[size=78%]Why? I'm not an [/size]ideologue.[size=78%]  Ideology is the study and practice of idiocy. And Glenn Beck and Fox news is idiocy and nothing but Right Wing propaganda destroying our politics. You would get exactly the same reaction from me if you started quoting Marx and spewing Communist propaganda as fact, for the same reason. Both would be appropriate on a political forum, not here.[/size]
I myself enjoy that this group of folks can be who they are and not be to afraid to share their thoughts without having their person attacked for it!  For as a man sows so shall he reap.[/font][/size]
Quote[size=78%]Spew ideological non-sense and lies and you can expect to be corrected in your behavior. I talk to anyone who actually takes responsibility for what they say. Those that speak irresponsibly can expect a reaction. Keep such idiocy to yourself or on appropriate fora. If this forum turns into Redneck, Right Wing non-sense you have killed it completely. The same would be true if you were preaching communism. Why do Right Wingers feel empowered to inject their idiocy in a car forum when you wouldn't allow Left Wing idiocy a pass? If you sow stupidity you reap a stupid country and society. I will not quietly accept such behavior at all, from either side of the political spectrum. If Pinto5.0 acts like an butt, an butt I will call him.[/size][size=78%]Pinto5.0[/size]
I'm not obsessed with Barrys skin color, it's his Marxism that bothers me[/font][/size]
QuoteCamouflage[size=78%]. He is not a Marxist, he is a moderate REPUBLICAN in his policies. I don't think you know what Marxism is. You're not fooling anyone, it's because he is a black man when all the camo falls away.[/size]
If all Grumpy knows about Agenda 21 is that Beck wrote a book about it then he should Google more[/font][/size]
Quote[size=78%]I know more than Glenn Beck does about it, evidently. Using a UN resolution(which has no force of law in the US)as a basis to gin up fear in an already ill-informed portion of the public is pure propaganda. [/size]Goebbels[size=78%] would be so proud.[/size]
I'm one of the people who was sending Beck links to info on Agenda 21 long before a book was written.[/font][/size]
Quote[size=78%]WOW! You say that as if it was something to be proud of. I wouldn't be advertising your ignorance and mental problems in public were I you. Glad I'm not. But you know what, if you keep them out of the public discourse people might conclude you were a decent human being.[/size][size=78%]Grumpy[/size]
79 Pinto Hatch, Yellow w/White Pony stripes, Pony wheels, 6650 miles

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 79prostreet on January 19, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
Dear Grumpy. I for one find it odd that you even know what Glenn Beck says, or you a closet listener? I also find it odd that the only way you view are two term President is that he is black, and to refer to him as a janitor cleaning up a white mans mess may border on racist. I also find it odd that you could have moved right past this post and went on to something that does not cause your gears to grind so hard. I myself enjoy that this group of folks can be who they are and not be to afraid to share their thoughts without having their person attacked for it!  For as a man sows so shall he reap.

You were much more polite than I may have been but I'm with you. I'm not obsessed with Barrys skin color, it's his Marxism that bothers me. There are plenty of non-white, non-marxist candidates whom I would not only donate money to their campaigns but also I'd volunteer to work for them. If all Grumpy knows about Agenda 21 is that Beck wrote a book about it then he should Google more. I'm one of the people who was sending Beck links to info on Agenda 21 long before a book was written.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

79prostreet

Dear Grumpy. I for one find it odd that you even know what Glenn Beck says, or you a closet listener? I also find it odd that the only way you view are two term President is that he is black, and to refer to him as a janitor cleaning up a white mans mess may border on racist. I also find it odd that you could have moved right past this post and went on to something that does not cause your gears to grind so hard. I myself enjoy that this group of folks can be who they are and not be to afraid to share their thoughts without having their person attacked for it!  For as a man sows so shall he reap.
79prostreet

Grumpy

Pinto5.0

"I could explain Agenda 21 & the plans to restrict our freedom to drive anywhere or anytime we please or putting GPS tracking in our cars to track & tax us for driving or to make gas so expensive that we will actually want that crappy Volt in our driveways instead of our Pintos but then I suspect this whole thread would disappear like any other that points out what's being done to us against our will. Emission checks & visual inspections are chump change compared to what's on the way.....

I'm sure I'll now get a nasty PM or this comment will be deleted or both but that doesn't make my point less valid.

I used to believe my voice mattered but the last 20 years & ESPECIALLY the last 4 years have taught me otherwise. For my belief in a balanced budget & constitutional limits on the size & scope of the federal government I've been openly mocked by the media & been called a domestic terrorist by this president & labeled as dangerous. As far as "our rights ??" they are now subject to interpretation by 537 rulers & a supreme court that has no clue where their powers end. Frankly, I'm terrified of where we are heading."

"Paranoia will destroy ya."
David Byrne

First, Agenda 21 is pure Right Wing nutjobbery, seek other sources for your information. You and many others have been PLAYED by the propaganda of the Glenn Beck wing of the nutty Right.

Second, the majority of us elected a black man as President, twice. GET OVER IT.

Third, where was your concern for deficits and corruption under Bush?(13 trillion dollar debt, economy crashing, 750,000 job loses a month on the day Obama took office, but it was all his fault, right) It is Bush and his cronies who created the current situation and crashed the economy. It's like you hold the janitor responsible for not cleaning up the mess the Republican party made of the country fast enough.

Fourth, I don't come to Fordpinto.com to be assaulted by Right Wing woo and I doubt many others do, either. If that is what you seek, go elsewhere. I am tired of Right Wing lies and stupidity spilling over where it does not belong, it is putrid drivel that is best left in the cesspools of the internet where those who seek it can swim in crap to their hearts content.

Grumpy
79 Pinto Hatch, Yellow w/White Pony stripes, Pony wheels, 6650 miles

James Meter

Naa, mine was sold outta Festus, MO. I was wondering if it originally had a cat (not like I'd re-install..but curious is all) or not. I heard from someone that cars 1975 and up had 'em..but I dunno. My '74 Econoline  E-100 never had one, and it was bone stock bumper to bumper.
Bought my Pinto in '12, last tagged in '97. Had it on the road (thanks to a $20) spring '14. Tima to tear it apart, fix it correctly this time....and play with the drive train. Got a totally free & complete drive train-engine, 5 speed, drive shaft, and computer!

Pinto5.0

Quote from: James Meter on January 15, 2013, 03:29:45 PM
I bought my '75 almost a year ago..and upon seeing the picture though 'Uhhhh...is that what I should hav had in mine??' Way ta scare a guy, California!
I has no cat either though..

Is yours a California car?  I'm not sure you need Cali equipment on a car originally sold outside the state when it's that old. There are a few loopholes but not many.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

James Meter

I bought my '75 almost a year ago..and upon seeing the picture though 'Uhhhh...is that what I should hav had in mine??' Way ta scare a guy, California!
I has no cat either though..
Bought my Pinto in '12, last tagged in '97. Had it on the road (thanks to a $20) spring '14. Tima to tear it apart, fix it correctly this time....and play with the drive train. Got a totally free & complete drive train-engine, 5 speed, drive shaft, and computer!

Pinto5.0

Quote from: blupinto on January 08, 2013, 10:34:40 PMI do think people like us can and will stand up to Big Government and fight for the right to drive the cars we love. Of course I might be living in a dream world... but there's lots of money in classic cars,  and we vote too! >:(

I used to believe my voice mattered but the last 20 years & ESPECIALLY the last 4 years have taught me otherwise. For my belief in a balanced budget & constitutional limits on the size & scope of the federal government I've been openly mocked by the media & been called a domestic terrorist by this president & labeled as dangerous. As far as "our rights ??" they are now subject to interpretation by 537 rulers & a supreme court that has no clue where their powers end. Frankly, I'm terrified of where we are heading.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

blupinto

That's the good thing about car people... we're small change in the classic car department, numbers-wise, but there are a lot of folks who own and drive old cars not because they have to, but because they want to. You better believe there are car lobbies like there are gun lobbies and other powerful groups like that. I do think people like us can and will stand up to Big Government and fight for the right to drive the cars we love. Of course I might be living in a dream world... but there's lots of money in classic cars,  and we vote too! >:(
One can never have too many Pintos!

Pinto5.0

Quote from: cutelitlputtputt on January 08, 2013, 08:58:08 PM
Toni, I wish I knew a place like that!!!

Chris, I wish they would finally pass that law stating that 1985 cars and older don't need smog checks.  But I don't think that will happen because they want the old cars off the road. 

It is our job to keep putting them back on the road!!!!  :D

I could explain Agenda 21 & the plans to restrict our freedom to drive anywhere or anytime we please or putting GPS tracking in our cars to track & tax us for driving or to make gas so expensive that we will actually want that crappy Volt in our driveways instead of our Pintos but then I suspect this whole thread would disappear like any other that points out what's being done to us against our will. Emission checks & visual inspections are chump change compared to what's on the way.....

I'm sure I'll now get a nasty PM or this comment will be deleted or both but that doesn't make my point less valid.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

cutelitlputtputt

Toni, I wish I knew a place like that!!!

Chris, I wish they would finally pass that law stating that 1985 cars and older don't need smog checks.  But I don't think that will happen because they want the old cars off the road. 

It is our job to keep putting them back on the road!!!!  :D
Anything to keep her runnin'!

ToniJ1960

  I know a place here I go to :) When I stayed in a small town in Kentucky for a while (Shelbyville) all they did for an inspection was come out of the sheriffs office poke their head in the window write down the mileage and hand you a paper. I walked across the street and got my plates. I like places like that.

78txpony

Quote from: tonij1960 on January 08, 2013, 04:28:12 PM
Now that were on t his subject, my 1978 Pinto wagon is missing the air reactor pump and diverter valve and vac hoses. In St Louis my car is old enough it doesnt have to pass emissions now. Can y ou believe it wont pass the safety part because some emissions parts are off of it? Do they do this sort of thing just to be cruel or what
Unfortunately, this is the law in most areas, including TX.  It may not have to have an emissions test done, but still needs to pass a visual check to make sure the parts are there and hooked up.  Also, the car cannot be smoking or running rough, obvious emission issues. 

Try getting you inspection at a different place who might 'bend the rules'.  The place I go has an old car buff doing inspections and he often does not even pop the hood on mine!   Of course he knows me well with my fleet of old vehicles....
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

ToniJ1960

 Now that were on t his subject, my 1978 Pinto wagon is missing the air reactor pump and diverter valve and vac hoses. In St Louis my car is old enough it doesnt have to pass emissions now. Can y ou believe it wont pass the safety part because some emissions parts are off of it? Do they do this sort of thing just to be cruel or what

chrisf1219

well jennifer my wagon came from idaho its a 77 and has no smog pump. yet it can pass ca smog. federal cars didnt need it.ac compressor is sitting where the smog pump might go.then again if ca would raise the age to say 1980or 1985 or older no more smog checks the would be great.  chris
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Srt on January 08, 2013, 03:08:17 AM

you are correct , Becky. 1975 & newer.

I thought all Fords got them in '74. I seem to remember my moms '74 Maverick having a cat.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Srt

Quote from: blupinto on January 07, 2013, 06:43:36 PM
Neither of my two '74s have catalytic converters. It doesn't look like they ever had them.  I thought they put them in Pintos in the '75 model year and up.

you are correct , Becky. 1975 & newer.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

blupinto

Neither of my two '74s have catalytic converters. It doesn't look like they ever had them.  I thought they put them in Pintos in the '75 model year and up.

One can never have too many Pintos!