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72 Runabout for Sale- Washington

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1978 Squire wagon 6 Cly
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Beautiful 1980 Pinto

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79 Wagon with many extras
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hood for a 79-80
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1973 FORD PINTO HOOD "F O R D" LETTERS
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

3400 mile Pinto on ebay.

Started by Pintony, May 30, 2005, 07:21:19 PM

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kris kincaid

The hose clamps could easily have been changed if the radiator was pulled. If the car sat for awhile, the radiator may have needed to be boiled out. I could buy that it sat for 25 years, then somebody pulled it out and replaced hoses, belts, battery, etc so they could drive it.

Now what I find really offensive is the buy it now of $11,500.00! For a Pinto?  :o
ganar dinero a espuertas

1955ranchwagon

i thought pintos speedos only came to 85 mph that one says 180 or something

madddoggj

another thing i noticed was that there is differential fluid on the exhaust pipe.  in my experience a car that is rarely/never driven,  is not going to throw fluid sideways through a gasket and onto the exhaust.  just my 2 cents
Josh

79 Turbo Sedan (so close to ready i can taste it)
77 Panel Wagon (getting a turbo soon if i can get the cash flowing right)

madddoggj

If i remember correctly, my 77 wagon had the stone guard on it before i had it repainted.  not sure, that has been 6 years.  also, the radiator in that looks identical to a radiator i purchased from advanced auto parts.  it was a radiator for an automatic transmission 77 with a 2.3.  even had the little green sticker on it.
Josh

79 Turbo Sedan (so close to ready i can taste it)
77 Panel Wagon (getting a turbo soon if i can get the cash flowing right)

Farmboy

  How do you find out which car lot in seattle it is in, I'd like to look at it cause it aint that far away, maybe 40 miles?? ???
  I do what the voices in my Pinto tell me to do




74 Pinto Wagon
71 Runabout (parts car)

billnall

Quote from: Pintony on May 31, 2005, 07:28:16 AM
Hey 78Pinto,
Is that stone guard Factory or dealer installed???
I'd like to know more......
From Pintony


If my memory serves me right that was a factory option. It was a rubberised coating sprayed on before the paint was applied. I think it was an option that came out in the late 70's for all Ford Cars. When a panel was replaced after a crash the paint Shop could not match it exact and the repair was not as thick. My 93 Tempo has that on it from the Factory and it has a tape line like that.
Ford Parts Man
Bill

Pintony

OK???
If the stone guard was applied from the factory, It would not have a tape line it would just be under the paint.
Right????
I saw a Piece of SH-evy have that in the early 80s. Never saw it on a Pinto.
HERE IS THE BIG BUT.
I do not have any Pinto's that new.
My likes stop at 1973,
Oh.. I have newer Pintos but I bought them just to keep them out of the crusher.
I don't rebuild them.
From Pintony

wagonmaster

The outside mirror on the driver's door does not look like any I've seen on a Pinto. It may be some undercoating, but the rearend housing covers were not painted from Ford. Also, what is that additional piece on the rear lip area on the consollette? That's definitely not original!! The car is clean, but I still have a hard time believing it has so few miles/kilometers. By the way, converting from kilometers to miles equals a smaller figure. The "mileage", using the figure given of 3413K equals 2133 miles. The car's been around long enough to accomodate all the changes, even with the low stated mileage, but I would certainly want to see all the records for the car for proof!!
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

78pinto

Quote from: Pintony on May 31, 2005, 07:28:16 AM
Hey 78Pinto,
Is that stone guard Factory or dealer installed???
I'd like to know more......
From Pintony

I know they did it at the factory.....i'm just not 100% sure it was optional.
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

dirt track demon

Not to mention the most obvious tell-tale of all,   The crooked numbers in the odometer.   103413km  would be my guess.  No it isn't a 6 cyl rad. The 6 has the inlet on drivers side bottom and outlet on pass side top. 
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

dick1172762

After market fuel filter / third brake lite in rear window. All adds up to 81819 miles. DICK.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

TONY! Its not a Canadian Pinto!  All Canadian Pintos had a gas gage without the disclaimer for useing un-leaded gas. I know because I bought a KM speedo through a Ford dealer for my 80 Pinto, but Ford would not sell me the leaded gas gage or the leaded gas filler neck. So my Pinto ended up just like this one, Canadian speedo / American gas gage. Read the questions & answers at the bottom of the listing. This guy really doesn't like to be called "Buddy". He's a perfect example why people have such a LOW respect of car dealers. Don't know about the rad. Could be. There was a wagon on there for sale with super low miles a while back, and you could really see it was like new. Carpet stood up. This one lays down. DICK.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintony

Hey 78Pinto,
Is that stone guard Factory or dealer installed???
I'd like to know more......
From Pintony

78pinto

that tape line....its called stone guard and came on all Canadian Pintos. It's on my buddies '71, it was on my '76 and it's on my '78
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Pintony

Is that RUST up by the cowl seal or just crud???
From Pintony

Pintony

Hey Dick,
Is that a V6 Radiator???
From Pintony

Pintony

Hey Dick,
nice eye ther on the hose clamps.
I'm not even that concerned about the mechanicals.
It's that dam tape line that makes me mad!!!
What's been covered up????
What happens when you call this Jerk, BUDDY???
From pintony

dick1172762

Love that hi-tech overflow bottle on the rad. Rotonda bottle I'm sure. And please if you send the dealer a question, don't call him BUDDY.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

13413 KM should equal 81819 miles!!!! I have had Pintos with that many miles to be that clean. Let the buyer beware is the old saying.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

CHEAPRACER

Quote from: dick1172762 on May 30, 2005, 11:53:29 PMJerk selling it still calling it xxxx MILES on a metric speedo. DICK.

Now that's funny. Something I would have never caught on to.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

dick1172762

Non Ford hose clamps / battery cable / radaitor cap / metric speedo-sae gas gage / fitting to flush heater hose / rust and dirt underneath / wheels. Those I saw in the pictures. A big rip off. Jerk selling it still calling it xxxx MILES on a metric speedo. DICK.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

CHEAPRACER

My car is all original...... except the motor, trans, rear, wheels, and scoop. ;)   
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

Pintony

The Seller is a car dealer >:(
Also has hidden the identity of the bidders so I can't tell them what a fool they are. ;D
I just hat it when people try to sell stuff to un suspecting buyers.
I had a guy at an All Ford Show tell me his 1968 mustang was all original.
Yea I guess ford messed up the paint the first time and had to re-spray it.
MAN!!! Did that car have a bunch of tape lines everywhere.!!!!!
From pintony

CHEAPRACER

The guy likes to shop at the swap meet?

The miles are hard to believe, I had that many miles on all my cars within 1 month. When you buy a new car you look for reasons to drive it.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

Pintony

OK....
But what about those speakers???
Or the tack???
Or the Mustang weels????
Or the CD player.
It just ads up to 103400 miles.


3400 miles Come on!!!!!
Also The 3M tape was not part of the package on a 1980 Pinto.
Or

CHEAPRACER

Not taking sides or anything, but 3M does make a strip that goes excactly where you see that to protect the lower panels from rust or salt damage. Sure wished my brand new 88 Mustang had it when I ruined the lower half of my doors at only 6 months old by going to the snow.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

Pintony

NOT!!!!
i just sent that guy an email asking "Who You Tring To Fool"????
Ebay link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4553357210&fromMakeTrack=true

Look at the tape line where they have fixed the rust down low!
Idiot!!!!!
From Pintony