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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Exploding Pinto is a Myth...Pinto Fires, NOT!

Started by Scott Hamilton, August 21, 2012, 10:19:33 AM

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turbopinto72

Just an FYI , Now , as of 2023 , there have been more Tesla's that have caught on fire then Pintos.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Scott Hamilton

Norm has one of the best write ups on this, this is a must read for anyone looking for the truth,
https://pintostampede.com/the-pinto-myth
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dianne

The experiences each of us get from our ownership from cars is different. I think amc understands this himself because he's the MacGyver of the auto world taking a hairpin and some spit and raw iron and could repair a transmission. As I opened a garage, I found that everything comes in with weird problems. Problems on one car don't exist on another from a different day or week or month. My 78 Monte Carlo I bought new in 1978 was a total POS, but I see people restoring them today.

Bottom line is this thread got taken off topic I guess because if some comments. The Pinto is no different than any car out there from the 80s or 80s. My best new car ever was the Mustang II I got in 1974 and the Catera. Worse car ever was the 78 Monte Carlo.

Sorry MacGyver, but I love my Fords. Play dumb all you want, but you love to troll...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

Go figure indeed.....................and I don't consider myself smart. I just pay more attention than a lot of other people do to things. Take a car that someone swears they've never had any trouble with it and I'll easily find fifty things wrong with it, it's an obsessive/compulsive thing tied to overtly perfectionist mentality that allows (more like forces) me to do it. My curse if you will. But why I was always picked to run huge webpresses with multiple setup possibilities, I pursued setups far deeper than others to save thousands more in material cost. The bosses loved it.

My opinion only here and not trying to convert others but I can stand my ground.

Funny, the Focus window mechanism that breaks if you so much as look at it and many times is a Jaguar setup...............I saw the same with German cars at the store, I had no idea the German cars were so shoddily made, the lower level Volkswagens are literally throwaway cars. I view any late Chryslers as the same, they just never have done things in a logical fashion it seems. The big Ram trucks had so many problems it's not funny, far more parts bought for them than Ford or GM trucks. The owners groused about them all the time. The Fords had their issues like the Triton plug thing of course.

I expected some trouble from the Fords I bought, they were the lower end vehicles and at one time so cheap I figured on at least breaking even with parts. I don't see it as that way any longer, the cars have come way up in price including used and I will be looking elsewhere from now on.

I carp about breaking things but I don't think I've spent more than a guess $500-$700 overall averaged in any car's life I've owned but because I do all my own work and I count that as free.

Haven't owned any imports directly but worked on a lot of them. I did mess with a whole lot of Japanese two wheel stuff and I've always liked how they pay a lot more attention to detail little things to avoid them becoming bigger problems. Sixty seconds looking at the Nissan problem solving of engine vibrations at idle as versus Ford's cockeyed way of doing things and clear who does more thinking before implementing, it's all over the cars, all you have to do is look. No wonder the Fords have so many idle vibration issues, the engine mount design they use there is pretty much garbage.

FYI, the Mazda 626 was pretty much killed off by the ATX used there, Ford then takes the same trans to mod it several times while not accomplishing any real improvement and then problems galore all over again for a stream of years. The cars failed left and right, one of the largest reasons low mileage Contours/Mystiques were in the junkyards was that trans. They then used it in Escapes to even more problems. I used to see Escapes with trans out left and right at the Ford dealership we serviced with parts.

dga57

I think it's fair to say that we all form our automotive opinions based on the cars we're exposed to.  Personally, I have owned two Japanese cars in my lifetime (a Honda Civic and a Mazda 626) and do not plan to ever purchase another.  In my experience, neither lived up to the hype of Japanese superiority.  Overall, my worst experiences have been with German cars, although you are always hearing how great German technology is.  I would count my BMW Z3, Volkswagen New Beetle, and Cadillac Catera (rebadged Opel) as the most problematic vehicles I've ever owned.  British cars always take a hit on reliability and yet I've owned a Jaguar and a Rolls-Royce that never caused any problems at all.  With the exception of a 1981 Lincoln (total lemon) I bought new, I have had exceptionally good service from Ford products.  Have had decent service from GM vehicles too if you don't count the two early 80's diesels I bought.  I currently drive a Ram 1500 4x4 pickup that I dearly love.  With only 14000 miles so far, it's hard to say how it may stack up reliability-wise.  I chose it over the comparable Ford and GM offerings because it was more comfortable and better looking in my opinion.  I chose my 2014 Mustang convertible because I liked it better than anything GM or Chrysler offered.  It runs great and I thoroughly enjoy it, but there again, it only has 12000 miles on the odometer so it's too soon to tell.  We all have different experiences.  I remember Dianne telling me she had a Cadillac Catera that she counted as one of her best cars.  Go figure!  I'm very happy for her because mine was pitiful.  To me blind brand loyalty is similar to blindly voting a straight party ticket - but then, that's just my opinion.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dianne

You proved you're better than all of us AMC. Must be awesome to be a smart as you looking down on us stupid people.

I'm one of those idiots that have brand loyalty.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

amc49

To each his own and you don't have to be sensible about it.

I am loyal to no marque out there, but I can tell pretty quick when somebody does something in a better way. I have only have been with Ford since '74, but I can back up everything I say since I have never paid for a single car repair in my entire life. That includes my own automatic transmissions and engines coming out my ears. I have never paid ever for wheel alignment, I do my own. I typically fix parts that break at far less cost than most of you, often fixing what's there without buying the part at the parts store. I stayed with Ford longer term because I understood the way they used their computer but can do other brands as well. I've been reading OBD since '91. I don't speak badly of the cars just because of a gut feeling, I have personally seen the bad things Ford does and if you can't handle it then so much the worse for you. I can see engineering fault in the simple parts I pick up almost instantly, most other people grousing about this or that would not have a clue if I simply threw the part at them and said tell me what's wrong with it?

Talk about rust? Modern Fords rust so quickly up north they typically rust nuts and bolts to not even be removeable in 3 years. The cars may be missing floorboards in five. Dangerous suspension corrosion by then too. I lost a Tempo control arm to corrosion in '97, car only 3 years old and here in Texas where NOTHING ever corrodes to ruin. Why? The engineer who located the moisture spit hole on the muffler aimed it right at the arm, brilliant!!!

Best Ford I had as far as reliability was a '74 MII, only changed a timing belt here or there. The Focus cars have something go wrong every 20K miles or sooner and began doing it at under 50K. Endless troubles and thanking my stars I can fix it all with no great cost to me. The Contour was better but broke a lot of cosmetic stuff, the trans had known issues and exploded at 125K miles. I rebuilt it to be running fine now since '07. One of 3 Tempos shelled a trans, I fixed it for a $16 pump driveshaft and $5 pump insert and been running after that since '05. One other Tempo began to slip badly in 1 and 2 and I modded the servo piston using a thirty cent washer and trans ran from then (around '98) until I just sold it last month. Of course the shop I took it too on a whim said it needed a 'complete rebuild' and what they do. One Focus began to slip going into OD, fixed with a $5 bolt to make a band adjuster and running fine now some 8 years later.

Things like that, I have never spent over $100 on anything except maybe engine components to rebuild an entire engine. Most of the time $25 or less. Today I fixed a Focus a/c clutch with a twenty cent washer and fixed a Focus window regulator for $10 in parts, they shell out about once every two years or so. The Ford branded ones are no better than the low dollar Dorman ones at parts store, just like the stat housings and plastic rad pipes that break every time you turn around. I made up copper ones from Home Depot pipe at less cost than the original and they will NEVER break. I use bulk hose only and no custom molded factory hoses other than upper and lower main rad hose. That alone makes over $100 out of thin air.

I'm ignorant too, I don't accept virtually anything told to me about how to fix a car, and then I do other things to fix it far more cheaply. They could not believe how little money I spent when I was working at the parts store and they got fairly upset when I told people how to fix their cars without having to buy the expensive parts. I can find things wrong with almost any car out there and what I do well. I then will come up with ways to fix them that have nothing to do with how the 'normal' world does things since I don't play well there.

Two Focus and one Contour at 200K+ miles, I change oil at 9500 OCI and using Walmart oil, can't kill the cars. However, every other little thing on them breaks other than engine/trans, and what I'm talking about. The small things are calculated to frustrate the owner into getting rid of car due to nuisance issues that mount up to drive one crazy. Still, I will be able to keep them running until I give up to let them go to the yards.

Brand loyalty is retarded in my view, it only clouds one's vision. But then I grew up with American Motors cars, no one ever realized how great they could be and we made up plenty of parts when you couldn't get them like for the Fords or GMs. The AMCs were well known for crap bodies, the doors and windows were always problems, the one ATX they had was crap (Ford had an exact copy that was not that great either), we routinely tore them up with 300 hp engines. They could not be modded to be any stronger either. Later they went to Chrysler ATX and even later GM and better trans then.

pinto_one

There is a different story on every car, some have good luck , some have very bad, I had GM cars , Fords, a Dodge , MB , Volvo , Studebaker , and one Toyota , and a handful of electric cars , to me the best fords were the pintos and ford rangers, got a 93 ranger I brought new and now has 250K , same engine and trans , the 07 Toyota Prius at 150K the rod bearings went , fixed and my wife gave it to one of her relitives , now have a 2015 ford feista for her , I take care of the cars I have like I take care of my airplanes, I do not want to end up on the side of the road , (or a smoking hole ) some place, later Blaine  :o
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: amc49 on March 25, 2015, 03:36:34 AM
Only the owners keeping the cars hidden away in garages and hearts keep the older ones out and in the public eye. Nothing else. I've seen old Japanese on the road as well but the mental picture there is not as clear as the one holding onto the American car.

The imports were better made cars, you either get that or you don't....

Sorry to disagree with you here. The cars that came in early when I was young were nothing but rust buckets, even worse than the Vegas. So they weren't that good and they were crappy rust buckets. At the time I bought a 78 Monte Carlo, traded in my 74 Mustang II, which was a mistake, and that was the worse POS I ever owned in my entire life. Detroit was pushing crap because I believe they thought Americans would buy anything. The imports starting coming in and I just remember them rusting like the POSes they were. People bought them as an alternative at the time for gas mileage and an alternative. I mean floorboards rotting out in a few years. I looked at a Datson 510 to race one year, it was so rusted! I couldn't buy it anyway because my dad would have been sooooo pissed.

Saying Imports were and are better cars is not a correct comment!

PS - I've never owned a Japanese car, I still remember an uncle dying at Pearl Harbor as my dad would tell me. No one remembers any more.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: sedandelivery on March 25, 2015, 07:12:36 AM
I can say pertaining to modern Ford cars, I bought a 2007 Focus for my daughter new and I can truthfully say it is the most trouble-free car I have ever seen. New tires, brakes, and battery, that's it after 7 years.

Because Fords ROCK! Having bought some Chevy's such as the Impala, I can say I am a Ford woman!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

sedandelivery

I can say pertaining to modern Ford cars, I bought a 2007 Focus for my daughter new and I can truthfully say it is the most trouble-free car I have ever seen. New tires, brakes, and battery, that's it after 7 years. 

amc49

Only the owners keeping the cars hidden away in garages and hearts keep the older ones out and in the public eye. Nothing else. I've seen old Japanese on the road as well but the mental picture there is not as clear as the one holding onto the American car.

The imports were better made cars, you either get that or you don't. They came up with clever ways of building things and why even now the OEM North American car companies use many of their methods of doing things. Why they combined with the import companies in creative partnerships. Forced to when they could not do any better. Ford bought Mazda and GM worked with Toyota on common assembly lines. Ford later bought Jaguar and GM Lotus simply to drain the companies of ideas when they could not come up with more themselves, then they spun the companies off after they had raided the mental banks there.

Yes, the media destroys everything they pretty much touch but it would not be possible if American business did not have so many things to hide from the public. The way it does business, if things don't go right then you use every trick in the book to change the mental perception there. Look at Ford even now, they have become one of the most cynical car companies ever in the way they do business. Their cars have so many things wrong with them it cannot be said and has gotten worse over the years.

Own more than one of the same model like I often do and you would have to be blind to not see how the cars have gotten cheaper and crappier over the years. Each car goes through a cheapening process to lower cost after initially being brought out, often the better parts are the earlier ones. You can pick up almost any part on a car and compare it to see that. Ford even worse, the re-engineering now shows signs of being done to make the part intentionally break faster and plain as day. The engineers are now actively being used to shorten the lives of the cars, they last too long now and can't sell new cars with that.

Smear campaign? Look at the initial Ford Focus rollout, the highest number of recalls ever done on a first year car, like eight of them. I have one and did every recall fix myself. The cars commonly catch fire from substandard battery cables, but then so did Fords of all types through the '80s and '90s, the ignition recall. I had 3 of those cars, and all tried to melt the ignitions. No need for smears when the car maker itself shoots itself in the foot over and over.

How about the Ford cruise control fires that set vehicles on fire when they are sitting in the garage to burn the entire house down? If they would simply do their electrical systems better they would come up tremendously in world as to quality, but they are focused too much on saving a few cents of cost per car on copper wire and plastic insulation, the biggest problems for them in the last 20 years being fires of all types.

The new twin disc clutch Focus is one of the most snake bit cars ever released. The cars are almost 100% guaranteed to have major clutch issues if the DCT trans and the electric power steering can stop at any point while driving on the freeway to almost kill the driver when the steering locks up. Ford has warranty issues with them coming out of their ears. Yet other car companies roll out the EXACT same technology to not have hardly any issues at all.

I've owned Ford in a long string  of eight and now will never buy another. Luckily (no, intentional actually), I never paid full price for one, only program cars with low mileages. Each one showed way more than its' fair share of issues. My fixing them all myself lowered my exposure greatly to that as loss. My son bitched about his last Ford and it had multiple issues before 40K miles, he's now driving Nissan and no issues at ALL at 90K, change fluids only and drive the wheels off it. I helped him to go there, Ford is no longer my car company or his, they do not care about their customers at all.

With the Pinto, it was the internal engineers themselves coming to Lee Iaccoca over Pinto safety issues and the 'rule of 2000', with that to put on the evening news they needed no other things to be crucified there. The media can do nothing without ammunition, only a dumb-ss company supplies that for them.

pinto_one

Guess your very right on that, The meda destroys everything when they put their mind to it,  but in time you find out they can not be trusted telling the truth,  but I can always point my finger back at them and say, the car was fixed and safer ,where are those mid 70,s Hondas and toyotas you thought were so great, where are they??,rusted away I guess ,have not seen one since the mid 80,s .  I know more people with pintos than the other brands,  😼     
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pintomagic

I really believe that who ever wanted to paint all the American sub compact cars as ugly or junk or dangerous was a good ploy and it worked to get people accepting the Japanese sub compacts and thus assures the Japanese car invasion has sealed into the American market by swaying people,s opinion about  buying more Japanese . It has opened the doors even wider , all by the sway of public opinions . To scare them into not   buying an American compact car . They especially attacked the Pinto because it was an American best seller . They did not want an American sub compact car to win over the Japanese imports . This would delay the popularity and future imports of Japanese cars . The campaign has been successful and look how many drive Hondas and Toyotas now a days . It was all a smear campaign against the American little cars .

dga57

The advice I offered to mcboyle earlier still stands for anyone interested in this subject: go back to the beginning of this thread and read everything that has been posted.  If you don't have time to do that, then seek out the posts written by Scott Hamilton and/or Matt Gunter.  They have both delved into the task of researching the subject and have uncovered amazing, documented, accurate facts related to it.  The "myth" is perpetuated by random, unsubstantiate d, vague statements by people who have not taken the time to research the facts.  ALL cars have some element of danger and the Ford Pinto was no exception, but it was no more dangerous than other similar-sized cars of the same era.  Let's face it... it is a small car and when it comes down to smaller versus larger in a collision, the smaller vehicle is going to suffer the most.  Case in point: in yesterday's collision involving Bruce Jenner, his big Escalade ESV sustained very minor damage when it rear-ended a Lexus sedan.  The Lexus then ran head-on into an even bigger Hummer, demolishing the Lexus and killing the driver.  So would we deduce from this that all Lexus sedans are death traps?  Not hardly.  Swap those two SUVs out for a Honda Fit and a Smartfor2 and the Lexus driver would, in all likelihood, have driven her car away from the accident scene.  All things are relative, but smaller always loses.  It's simple Physics.


Dwayne
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Keith

Many years ago (30 or 40 years ago), there was a Pinto rear ended at about (it was estimated) 90 miles an hour. The vehicle exploded into flames. I've forgotten most of the details from the news paper article. There was a mega lawsuit. It was sometime later that the rumors started. The 90 mile an hour impact was never mentioned in the rumors (except by me). I believe that accident was the source of the mistaken belief that Pintos are dangerous.

mcboyle

Quote from: dga57 on July 02, 2014, 12:39:16 AM
My advice would be, if you haven't already, to go back to the beginning of this topic and read everything - it pretty much explains the whole story.  There's a lot of information to absorb and if you don't feel like reading it all, then at least read the posts by Scott Hamilton and Matt Gunter - they are the most informative of the bunch.  Happy reading!

Dwayne :)

:D
1974 Pinto Station Wagon

dga57

My advice would be, if you haven't already, to go back to the beginning of this topic and read everything - it pretty much explains the whole story.  There's a lot of information to absorb and if you don't feel like reading it all, then at least read the posts by Scott Hamilton and Matt Gunter - they are the most informative of the bunch.  Happy reading!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

mcboyle

New loving Pinto owner so don't bite my head off-
my only question is what made this a headline in the first place? myth or fact there must have been some instances of this happening to make it a myth, right?
1974 Pinto Station Wagon

DBSS1234

Quote from: Cookieboystoys on June 04, 2013, 07:05:58 PM
how about classic Mustangs? this is worth a read...

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-47539.html

It is a wonder I am still alive. 4 classic Mustangs and a Pinto. Better tell my wife to up the life insurance!

sedandelivery

I knew it, because of the GM ignition switch problem the headlines scream, GM has a Pinto problem, and a local college professor had an article in the local paper how "thousands" of people burned to death in Pintos. Some myths never die.

jonz2pinto

many more cars are more of a hazard thaan the pinto.fieros engines exploded from cracked blocks.80s caprices(police) exploded when hit from behind.any car hit hard enuogh where tha gas tank sits will explode if hard enogh.even chevy pickups hit on side.thats to name a few.
Pinto-is short for pint-o-fun.

bbobcat75

it must be true i read it on the internet!!!?!?!

news articles are made up with so much b/s i cant stand to watch it or read it anymore!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Mike Modified

The Mustang was Lee's project.  How could he not know?  However, the source (CBS News, 60 Minutes, Dan Rather) was not trustworthy in 2009.  Notice that they give no hard numbers.

Mike

P.S.  I still wonder what happened to the survey money.

Cookieboystoys

It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Mike Modified

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130604/AUTO0101/306040046/1148/rss25

At least 51 people have died in fires as a result of rear end collisions in 1993-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokees and the 2002-2007 Jeep Libertys.

Chrysler refuses to recall the vehicles.

Mike

Pintosopher

Since this may or may not be the correct thread, or category , I'll let you the moderaors, and or viewers decide..
First, many of you live in the Ethanol belt of the US (Read: Corn producers) and to you I say : Rethink your rationale for oxygenated Fuel!
There are over 40 blends of Re-Formulated gasoline out there in the marketplace. If you are driving a car made before 2001, look out! If you are driving a Pinto, then you definitely Read this!
Ethanol blends are degrading any fuel line made of NBR that has no liner built into the hose. This would be any hose with SAE J30 R7 markings. My 1984 GTI began leaking immediately after the first blends of MTBE came out in the early 90's. I replaced every line made of rubber and still had issues with vapor buildup in the garage and near the fuel filler. Now we've been on the ethanol bandwagon for over 7 years now, and it has shown that even a Lined SAE 30 R9 hose eventually soften & leak at  hose barb fittings. My 2001 Dodge Dakota has had the evap canister lines to the Frame ( rubber hose) degrade enough to throw a fault code on the OBD system. twice!
In California, we switch fuel blends every Summer and Winter, every time this happens, the older lines swell up differently, and the clamp lose the grip and leaks ensue. This is now complicated by the EPA trying to get Congress to go along with 15% Ethanol or higher in some states, instead of 10% as we now have in CA. Write your congress and Senate member and stop this fraud, and ultimately war on Carbureted engines and even newer vehicles built since 1985.
For now , Consider the newest product to save your Cherished ride. Gates "Barricade" fuel line is the newest fuel line that meets the coming standards for Fuel vapor "permeation" and resultant leak consequences for using ethanol fuels. Don't let this issue go into the Procrastination file in your mind, DO it now ! Before the season is underway. Don't become a CarB Que!
If someone drives By a Burning Pinto by the roadside, will they think "I guess the media was right!" ?
Don't reinforce the myth, get crackin and fix it now!

Pintosopher, Fuelish warrior, and SEMA Ally  Why aren't you?
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

ghosttrain2

I was working at a Ford dealer (in suburban Chicago) when the recall came out for the fuel tank shield. The kit consisted of a black gas tank shield installed under the straps, a new filler neck that was installed from behind the fender, as it was installed from the outside of the fender. This way, in a rear end collision, the neck did not pull out of the tank as the rear quarter panels deformed. Also included was a new rubber "donut" to install the filler neck into the fuel tank. Last, but not least, as the recall came out in 1977, or 1978, an engineered repair panel was also available for cars that were rusted out around the filler neck, that was bolted on from the wheel well side to secure the filler neck.
I was also kept busy doing piston scuff repairs on the 2.3 engines in the Pint's and Mustang Io's.(they left out an oil squirt hole in the rod to lubricate the lower cylinder wall and piston skirt.

Scott Hamilton

Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.