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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Lifter Noise! New Video Posted!

Started by Glitch666, November 03, 2011, 04:01:29 PM

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RSM

Sounds like an exhaust leak to me. If you have an inspection mirror take a look at the bottom side of the exhaust manifold.

82expghost

i have the same sounding noise, first check oil pressure, but i found mine isnt coming from the head, my sound sounds the same and its my thrust bearing is shot on the crank, check your crank end play
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

pintodan460

I think your dad's right try the mystrey oil and see what happens.
big block pinto

Glitch666

Quote from: dave1987 on March 25, 2012, 09:58:08 PM
This just came to mind....And the gaskets are cheap.....Maybe you have an exhaust leak at the manifold to the head, or even the coupling where the down pipe meets the manifold??

Thats deffinitly possible will check that when i get paid, Ill grab a new gasket and change out the old one. anybody wanna check out my vid in the first post ;D

dave1987

This just came to mind....And the gaskets are cheap.....Maybe you have an exhaust leak at the manifold to the head, or even the coupling where the down pipe meets the manifold??
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Glitch666

Quote from: Fred Morgan on March 25, 2012, 09:33:15 PM
These guys have given you very good ideas, one I have left clean engine up do oil change 4 quarts you norm then 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil very high detergent may loosen lifters and valves a cheap fix. I have used this oil on aircraft engines with much success with the twin engines.     Fred   :)
Actually I was think of doing that after my father blurted out that marvel is a miracle cure for cars! Lol, im gonna do a little work and post back tomorrow. thank you so much guys!

Fred Morgan

These guys have given you very good ideas, one I have left clean engine up do oil change 4 quarts you norm then 1 quart of Marvel Mystery oil very high detergent may loosen lifters and valves a cheap fix. I have used this oil on aircraft engines with much success with the twin engines.     Fred   :)
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

dave1987

Perhaps a bad valve guide.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Glitch666

Quote from: pintodan460 on March 24, 2012, 11:05:00 PM
what about pulling ignition wires and see if noise goes away or alto less, maybe a piston pin noise?

I have done that but it doesn't go away, just runs crappy Lil.

Quote from: dave1987 on March 24, 2012, 11:57:21 PM
That's what I was about to suggest. Possibly a bad wrist pin? Has the motor ever been apart?

The motor has been rebuilt before sitting for 3 years, wouldn't a wrist pin sound like more of a clunk noise? Ive used a piece of wood to listen and its definitely in the head in the front to the left.

Anyway I'm gonna make a video and post it on youtube so you guys can hear what I'm hearing.

Starliner

One more...

You can use a 3 foot piece of heater hose to listen to the motor.
Hold one end to your ear and feed the other end around the motor.  Works amazingly well.
Be careful to keep your hands away from the belts and pulleys!

Also remember that the valve train turns at half the crankshaft speed. 
So listening to the frequency of the noise helps you understand if it's in the head or block.

While your listening, sometimes the insides of old catalytic converters come loose and rattle around when the throttle is changed.

Good luck, we hope you find it.   
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

racer99

Quote from: pintodan460 on March 24, 2012, 11:05:00 PM
what about pulling ignition wires and see if noise goes away or alot less, maybe a piston pin noise?

Or a cracked skirt.

dave1987

That's what I was about to suggest. Possibly a bad wrist pin? Has the motor ever been apart?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintodan460

what about pulling ignition wires and see if noise goes away or alot less, maybe a piston pin noise?
big block pinto

Starliner

" Its not just when I drive it. I could freshly start it no matter what temp the engine is and it will tap when you increase the throttle although it sounds a hell of alto worse when I'm driving it. "   
=======================
With that statement it seems we can assume a mechanical issue.   Since you can hear it when you are not driving, go purchase an automotive stethoscope.  They are very low cost.   You can use that to find the location and narrow down your search.
Yep, an oil change never hurts.  I would use a Motorcraft oil filter. 
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

dave1987

My bet would be a sticky/bad hydraulic lifter. I had three of them a year and a half after the motor rebuild on my 78's 2.3L motor. I use Castrol Synthetic (high mileage) GTX 10w30 in the winter and 10w40 in the summer, and notice less ticking than when using regular dino oil. My 2.3L still ticks, but only when cold and after warming up it goes away until I let the car get cold and start it again.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Glitch666

Quote from: pintodan460 on March 24, 2012, 08:12:08 PM
My friend had a Chevy big block and it had a similar noise. turned out to be a broken valve spring. It wasn't a major break but would tick. good luck. :(

Yeah definitely not a broken valve spring I have visually inspected it with the cover off and everything is brand new.

Quote from: Starliner on March 24, 2012, 07:36:51 PM
Here are some more trouble shootin g ideas that is easy to try:

Lubricate the distributor centrifugal advance by...
Remove the distributor cap & rotor.   Remove the felt in the distributor shaft.
Add two drops of oil.  Install the felt back in place and add two drops of oil to the felt.

Try a test drive with the vacuum lines removed from the distributor and plugged.
What was the result?  If no noise we could have narrowed down the problem.    Keeping the vacuum lines off is not a solution. 

See if it is running lean.  You could tie the choke half closed and go for a short drive to see the result.

The thermostat is about the engine temperature, not the outside temperature.   
You may want to install a temperature gauge on your engine.    It could be running on the hot side.  This can promote spark knocking.
It's good insurance too to keep track of your engine.

Can you get any mechanical rattling when revving the motor in place? 

Also back to temp, Its not just when I drive it. I could freshly start it no matter what temp the engine is and it will tap when you increase the throttle although it sounds a hell of alto worse when I'm driving it.

Quote from: 77pintocw on March 24, 2012, 07:15:26 PM
Hey Glitch666:

What weight oil are you using and which brand is it?

Thanks,

77pinto cw
I think I have 10-40 Pennzoil in it right now, gonna do an oil change soon and try some seafoam.

Quote from: Pinturbo75 on March 24, 2012, 07:50:30 PM
does it feel like it has proper power or does it feel sluggish? I'm thinking cam timing may be off...
Actually it runs really well and gets up and halls butt, its actually pretty surprising. Ive checked the timing and its dead on.

Oh also what pintos came with a holly 6500? This one has it and just tested the idle mixture screw and with it turned in all the way it wont die like it should. Ive never seen it before as everyone ive worked on had a 5200. Im gonna have to trouble shoot this thing to death. I am suspecting the carb now though.

pintodan460

My friend had a Chevy big block and it had a similar noise. turned out to be a broken valve spring. It wasn't a major break but would tick. good luck. :(
big block pinto

Pinturbo75

does it feel like it has proper power or does it feel slugish? im thinking cam timing may be off...
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Starliner

Here are some more troubleshooting ideas that is easy to try:

Lubricate the distributor centrifugal advance by...
Remove the distributor cap & rotor.   Remove the felt in the distributor shaft.
Add two drops of oil.  Install the felt back in place and add two drops of oil to the felt.

Try a test drive with the vacuum lines removed from the distributor and plugged.
What was the result?  If no noise we could have narrowed down the problem.    Keeping the vacuum lines off is not a solution. 

See if it is running lean.  You could tie the choke half closed and go for a short drive to see the result.

The thermostat is about the engine temperature, not the outside temperature.   
You may want to install a temperature gauge on your engine.    It could be running on the hot side.  This can promote spark knocking.
It's good insurance too to keep track of your engine.

Can you get any mechanical rattling when revving the motor in place? 


1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

77pintocw

Hey Glitch666:

What weight oil are you using and which brand is it?

Thanks,

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

Glitch666

Premium gas didnt change it all, has a full tank of premium. Egr valve is removed and the hole is blocked. Hot air hose isnt connected. Thermostat shouldnt do it because it does it at all temps. I was thinking, could the duraspark module or dizzy cause this if there bad?

Starliner

Did you try a fill-up of premium gas as a test?  It's just a test.   Your tank should be under a 1/4 to do this test.   
If the knocking is eliminated or decreases substantially then it is probably not a mechanical issue. 

If the premium gas fixes the knocking, here are some things to look at.
* Your EGR valve may not be working or vacuum lines are not plumbed properly.
* Try a cooler engine thermostat.  180-F degree in place of the 192-195 stock. 
* Remove the hot air hose from the air cleaner and see if that helps.
* Enrichen main jet   
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Glitch666

Sorry for bringing back  my old thread but this issue is driving me nuts. Like I said before the head has less than 500 miles on it after being rebuilt but the car did sit for 3 years after the tranny went out. Im sure its not spark knock, and the timing is dead on. I did notice that if I retard the timing by turning the dizzy towords the radiator it gets better but doesnt go away. I took the valve cover off and inspected everything and its all new with no visible play or wear. Oil does squirt everywhere when turned over =]. New plugs and wires also where installed. I was told that it could be that the head just needs to be broken in, or one of the lifters is gunked up from sitting and to run seafoam through it or a quart of atf mixed with my oil. Anybody that is willing to help would be awesome.

Starliner

I think you are getting spark knock.   Try a fill up using premium fuel and drive the pass again.
If the noise goes away, that is what it is.  Then you can focus on how to fix that or run premium.
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Glitch666

Okay so I got my 76 sedan home. The whole way over the pass thought the engine made a pretty load tapping noise. it sounds like its coming from the front of the head. It does not do it when its idling, it only does it under load. the head was redone at Yakima grind before the car war parked for 3 years. Anybody with expertise on this would be helpful.

EDIT!
Made a video, sorry its quiet but towords the end you will hear it pretty good if you turn it up.
http://youtu.be/_buiWHsccPE