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Misc. Pinto parts

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78 Cruising Wagon at Mecum Chattanooga

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1978 bobcat 4speed shifter
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74 Wagon body parts and a couple of 79 bits

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1971 Pinto Parting out

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79 Wagon with many extras
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1977 Pinto Hatchback Parts

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Beautiful 1980 Pinto

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

4sp wont shift when it warms up

Started by 82expghost, August 29, 2011, 12:31:38 PM

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dave1987

I find that O'Reilly's has Pioneer brand stuff, and NAPA uses it's "own" brand (produced by another company, not sure which). Autozone carries Duralast. Not sure what CarQuest has, I have never shopped there. The NAPA ones last me awhile, but I change mine every 3-4 years and keep the parts as emergency replacements.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

RSM


82expghost

i got a whole luk clutch with both bearings for 80 at my local autoparts store, it feels good
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

ToniJ1960

 In my case Im doubtful its the gear lube the whole transmission was replaced just about a year ago,and fresh pennzoil 90w hypoid gear lube was put in it.

And its getting worse,so I guess time to start setting aside money for a clutch soon.

Does anyone have recommendations for brands of clutch parts? It seems they only last me about 5 or maybe 6 years. But Im starting to realize autozone and even O Reilly dont always sell the top of the line brands,just at the top of the brand prices.

82expghost

it mite have been too then of oil in the transmission, i drained it while changing the clutch, but the clutch was super worn and the glazed, new everything including clutch cable, now my shifter feels fluidy, smoother, my clutch engages faster and smoother. i went all out, and i put lucas 75-90 in the transmission, the old fluid felt silicone like, so that could hve been one of the problems, how far should the clutch travel thoe? i think im still pushing the pedal too far, is ther suposed to be a stop on it?
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Starliner

You may have the wrong oil in the transmission.  If it is too thin the gears keep spinning.  Drain the old oil and try a straight 90 W or 75W-90 gear oil.  You have nothing to lose since changing the fluid is good maintenance anyway.  No wasted money and you ruled out a possible cause.   

Also make sure the level is full.  The car should be level when filling the oil.  Over-fill the transmission and then let it leak back out of the fill hole.  Then install the plug. 
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

ToniJ1960


Please come back and let us all know your results/conclusions and good luck.

82expghost

down shift and up shifting is fine, as long as im rolling, i checked the slack when it warmed up and to my amazement, that cable didnt stretch at all, from what iv been hearing, im guna drop the trans and clean it and throw a clutch set in it, i thaught it mite be the clutch, i was just hoping it was somthing i overlooked and could just tighten or adjust, thank you all so much for the help and info, im still guna cross my fingers thoe that a whole clutch kit fixes it
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

RSM

All a throwout bearing does is make the link between the fork and the pressure plate. If it were bad it would make noise due to being dry or about to lock up. If it locks up then it tears everything up. It does and it doesn't have anything to do with shifting. It does push the fingers in on the pressure plate which releases the clutch disk allowing the transmission to slow enough to be shifted. It doesn't have anything to do with the transmission shifting internally. This is one of those six of one thing, half dozen of another deals. It could be one of several things. The big thing is...it's hard to figure out unless your there actually working on it.

ToniJ1960



  Mine does this too,or something similar.After it gets warmed up like after a lot of city driving in the summer especially,its a little hard to get it into first.I can force it in but just about the most I want to force it.I had the transmission replaced no that long ago,with one I bought from a guy in Texas who claimed it had been rebuilt by students at a tech school. I was hoping it might just loosen up later,but I guess it could be some of these other things. I doubt its the synchronizers its possible of course but I think its jumping to conclusions,and they always seem to get the blame. The throwout bearing isnt too unlikely,since mine does make a little squawking sometimes,and the last time I had the clutch replaced thery didnt change it :( Some place in Kentucky and I was just glad to get it back by then. So my vote goes to throwout bearing but still a guess.

RSM

That's something that's another possibility. The synchro's he is talking about are inside the transmission. I can't imagine that all of them are bad at the same time. Does your car do this on all up and downshifts 82EXPGHOST ?

blupinto

Something similar to this has been happening to me with my '73 green wagon. Her transmission was replaced a couple months ago and for the most part shifts just fine. Once in a while, however, the gearshift will not go into where I want it to unless I turn the car off and shift it- then turn the car on and it's fine (except the last time- I had to shut the car off three times before it would go into gear... naturally at an intersection).  I called Oceanside Transmissions, the place the tranny was swapped at, and the guy who I talked to and described the problem to said it's a synchronization issue. The green wagon's engine is badly in need of a rebuild or replacement and her carburetor needs adjustment, so that might be my synchronization issue right there. Just like 82expghost said, it won't shift into any gear til I turn the car off, shift with clutch in, then restart. Mine, however, doesn't need to be warmed up- this tends to happen within 5 minutes of starting the car and half a mile or less driving.  ???
One can never have too many Pintos!

RSM

It sounds like a new clutch might be in order. If you have no grinding and it does what you explained then it sounds like it is due.

pintofarm

I suspect that the grease on the input shaft splines where they mate with the clutch disc splines has deterorated to the point that the disc is binding or failing to move away from the flywheel when the pressure plate is disengauged.  The clutch disc needs to slide back and forth on the input splines slightly when the pressure plate is applied or released.  Either way the transmission will likely need to be removed to completely clean and re-lube the splines. That grease doesn't last forever.
Louie

82expghost

ther isnt any grinding, and ther isnt any spongy feeling, but i will check to see if the slack changes, and to be more defined , i can tell the transmission is still turning because if i try real hard to put it in gear, i can hear and feel the drive shaft clunk trying to move, its still the original clutch in my car at over 100,000 miles, so somthing probebly is warn out, i adjusted the slack to the clutch when it was cold to the hanes manual specs, but it didnt help, i will check the slack when it warms up tomorrow
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

RSM

There are several different things that would cause this issue. So you don't get any grinding at all like you missed a gear? Does the clutch pedal get kinda spongy once it's warmed up or does it feel stiff all the time? Two things come to mind, if the pedal gets spongy then it sounds like a pressure plate. If it stays stiff feeling the entire time then check the clutch pedal play. When it's cold check where the clutch starts to disengauge when you push the pedal down, then check where its at when warmed up. If it changes then it could still be the pressure plate but it could also be the clutch cable. just some food for thought.

DBSS1234

Throw out bearing is shot. After the engine runs for awhile it warms the bearing and then the bearing won't turn freely so the clutch can't disengage.

To replace you must remove the tranmission. While you are in there replace the clutch disc and pressure plate. Resurface the flywheel also.

82expghost

my 77 pinto drives fine and shifts like a dream, but when it warms up , say 20 minutes of driving, i cant put it in any gear at all, unless i turn the car off and put it in the gear i want, if im moving i can shift, its only at 5mph or stopped when i cant shift, transmission gear oil is fine, clutch doesnt make any noise, no bad noises at all, im thinking it has somthing to do with the clutch, but it feels good, sombody with help please!
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily