Mini Classifieds

PINTO TRUNK LATCH & CATCH

Date: 03/23/2018 09:39 pm
Need right door for pinto or bobcat 1977 to 1980 station wagon
Date: 08/03/2018 09:19 am
Pinto Watch

Date: 06/22/2019 07:12 pm
WTB: Ford Type 9 5spd Transmission
Date: 03/18/2020 01:30 am
WTB Cruising Wagon
Date: 12/07/2016 05:35 pm
Wanted hood hinges
Date: 02/17/2020 05:30 pm
Pangra wanted
Date: 02/05/2017 01:58 pm
73 Runabout

Date: 11/20/2017 03:19 pm
1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,582
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 110
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 97
  • Total: 97
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New car !

Started by Reeves1, June 30, 2011, 07:47:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pinto_one

its prob the shifter , you can not go into two gears at the same time without locking up the trans and the whole drivetrain , also you should not be able to move shift levers 1 and 2 aganst 3 and 4 , because of a pin in the middle (if its in place ) from doing so , if you can bring it back to where you Ooverhauled it to put it in if you can move both at the same time , they are offten left out my mistake and not safe to do so ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Reeves1

Well, that didn't last long.....

First hard shift into 2nd & felt something go wrong. It's stuck in 2nd - but I can still shift into 1st. When I ease the clutch out it acts like it locks up the trans (like brakes on).
I can also shift in / out of 3 & 4.

I'll be inspecting the shifter today - hope I just forgot to tighten a bolt of nut.

Reeves1

Shifter mounting plate was 3 3/8" different.

Got some aluminum plate in town & made a new one. Looks & worked like factory.

Everything back in / on car.

Exhaust hangers this morning & road ready again.......except I may not have time to drive it.
Many home things to do before work starts up again.....

Reeves1

Bench fit shifter - all good.
Remove shifter & install trans.
Go to install shifter......and it will not work.
Took some measurements.... that I should have before....and the mounting plate is about an inch farther ahead than it was on the T-10.

Have to buy or make a new plate.....and pull the trans. Again.

Reeves1

FYI - guy on the BOSS 302 forum is selling his Tiger :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Sunbeam/132681091933?hash=item1ee468cb5d:g:gMUAAOSwKAJbNFem&vxp=mtr


I passed up a pair back in the early 80s......for 3k.  DUH !

Reeves1

I envy you owning a Tiger !

Took 4 days , lots of head scratching & calls to Long Shifters to get the shifter working properly.

Put it together as Long Shifters said & it wasn't even close to working.

Did my way & got all working as it should.

Doing some other small jobs, painting the trans & may have it all back together today.....?

Wittsend

Nice. I have heard some of the Cobra racers prefer the close ratio gears and have swapped with Tiger owners. I have not had that fortunate of an offer.

Reeves1


Wittsend

A trans with a STRONG reputation! Is this Toploader a close (2.32) or wide (2.78) ratio version? Generally the wide ratio version is preferable.  Unfortunately the early Tigers (like mine) came with the close ratio.

As noted in your post Toploaders aren't cheap.  Jeep used a version in their trucks from 80-96 in three different ratios.  I was hoping to pick up a wider ratio (actually Jeep's close ratio) cheap at a Pick Your Part (about $100) but after looking for around 15 years and only ever finding one..., it had the wrong gears (not the T-178, 3.01 1st gear I desired).

Glad to see this project is getting near the end. Enjoy.

Reeves1

I have two sets of shifter rods (one set is for a Top Loader).
I have 6 shifter arms (that bolt to trans) and not one will work on this Top Loader !
So I have to order new ones.....another delay !


Reeves1

I pick the Top Loader up this morning.

$800.00 for it & $875.00 ish to have it re-built. 

Guess that will teach me for using a weak trans thinking I could get away with it due to a light weight car !

Reeves1

Tracked down a Top Loader & it turns out it was out of my car before I bought it !
Pick it up in a few days & will have it re-built.
With luck back on the road after the 20th.

Reeves1

K&N says no off set filter base for me. Looks like I have to make one........?

Too much HP for a Super T-10. Broke the flange on the main shaft. Page 11 has an exploded parts page: https://www.richmondgear.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/richmond/UPGRADED_SUPER_T10_MANUAL_v2.pdf


If anyone knows of a person with parts, please let me know.

I also need a 90 degree adapter for my speedo cable.

dga57

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 25, 2018, 07:40:28 PM
Funny you should mention what Horse I rode in on........ it was a BAWS 302 Pinto !


Yup, finally had it out on the road !
Stupid horse power !
Fast !
Also gets about 6 mpg  ;D
Love the smell of VP C-111 gas burning !

Bugs though... speedo cable takes a sharp 90 & it only lasted about 10 miles. Need to get a 90 adapter to fix.
Also lost 1st & second. Thinking shift fork. I'll know more in a week or so......

BUT... you had it out on the road!  Well done!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Reeves1

Funny you should mention what Horse I rode in on........ it was a BAWS 302 Pinto !


Yup, finally had it out on the road !
Stupid horse power !
Fast !
Also gets about 6 mpg  ;D
Love the smell of VP C-111 gas burning !

Bugs though... speedo cable takes a sharp 90 & it only lasted about 10 miles. Need to get a 90 adapter to fix.
Also lost 1st & second. Thinking shift fork. I'll know more in a week or so......

Pintosopher

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 24, 2018, 08:07:50 PM
I'm behind on up-dates.....for now the exhaust is done.







Car is dirty all over. Didn't get a chance to wash yet......
OMG!  Now I do know what  tubing wood truly is! ;D



Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Reeves1

I'm behind on up-dates.....for now the exhaust is done.







Car is dirty all over. Didn't get a chance to wash yet......

Reeves1

Mufflers still not done. They keep messing up the coating.

Alignment done......got to run the car in town with open headers  ;D

Windshield was pushed back to today.

Work starts again so car has to wait. Again  :(

Reeves1

Headers have been bolted back on & exhaust made, which have been sent for coating. Should be back on Wed.

Picked up a barrel of VP C-111 fuel & will drain old fuel & fill with new fuel today.

Cleaning / painting the OEM rotors & calipers & re-installing.
Wilwood set up isn't what I want (will be selling this set).

Tuesday booked the car into a glass shop to install a new windshield.

Wed aft booked a front alignment.

Then re-install fenders etc & book a safety inspection.......

Reeves1

Headers re-installed.
Picked up a pair of Flo Pro Max mufflers # 11239
https://www.flopro.com/max.html

3" in/out, off set. Will be 3" to the ends.

Picked up some 3 1/2" pipe to make the reducers.

Couple days to finish & send for ceramic coating.

Gunna be loud  ;D

Reeves1

Ready to install, after a few other mods.
Sorry for the dented pipes. Original header builder didn't make them right & the only other option was to make a complete new set.
Have to pick up a set of stainless bolts for the slip joints.






I have a list of parts to buy to finish the exhaust to dump in front of the rear tires.....

Reeves1

Call last night.... Headers are done.
They will be picked up today from Edmonton & I'll pick them up this aft in town.

This is the set I re-built the back two tubes on each side.
Three of the front tubes had to be "adjusted" with a hammer.
Only other option was to build a complete new set from scratch.....which I nearly did. I have a different design in my head I was going to use. Even bought a new set of flanges to start with.....

Now to order the mufflers & mandrel bends to finish the exhaust. It will be reduced to three inch & kept that size to the ends.

Reeves1

About a week ago I sent the modified Headers in for re-coating (ceramic).

I the next few days I'll order the new valve springs & rockers.......

dick1172762

Fliping over backwards should not be a problem with 1/2 of the engine ahead of the front axle. That is unless your driving it backwards to take advantage of the better aeronautics going backwards.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: Reeves1 on December 19, 2017, 07:24:52 AM
It will also need anti flip over backwards devices  ;D
LOL , Perhaps a 300 lb bronze grill  ;D
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Reeves1

It will also need anti flip over backwards devices  ;D

Reeves1

Been a while since I posted on this.
Had a few asking about the car......

Going to put the OEM disk brakes back on - do not want to buy new wheels.
Needs front alignment, then fenders etc installed.

Engine needs new , stronger , valve springs. Going to order them when I can.

Reeves1

I'd still sell the car or just the engine. Let someone else finish it......going to be posting it up soon, but thought I'd mention it here first. Get in touch if interested.

B2 engine alone 15k

Whole thing 25k

Tonycando

Looking good,it's a piece of cake once you get into it hey.

Reeves1

I fully welded up all the seams & they are ready for re-coating.
Just have to get back to work for some disposable cash.....