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2.8 radiator
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1971 yellow Pinto hatchback with limited edition chrome strips on rear door, 1600 cc engine

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'79 Ford Pinto, Green,

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

V8 conversion basics for '74 & up Pinto

Started by 78pinto, February 18, 2005, 01:00:51 PM

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dick1172762

As for the question about the headers routed forward, who would want to run the exhaust pipes under the cross member? Every Pinto I have owned (16) had scrape marks all across the bottom of the cross member. Many times the pan too. And you want to run your exhaust under the cross member? Why not run the exhaust straight  up like a derby car. And think how cool that would be on a cruse night.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dga57

Quote from: Wittsend on September 09, 2017, 04:14:12 PM


The other thing is this is a pretty mellow site.  I'm on some car forums that can become quite the "Bickerfest."  I've seen people here disagree, but still be civil.

I agree 100%.  I take a lot of pride in being a small part of a car site that functions as peaceably as this one.  I've belonged to a few that were just awful.  The worst one I ever joined was the RROC, where the incessant bickering finally led me to sell my Rolls-Royce and cancel my membership; it just wasn't worth the stress.  To add insult to injury, I paid in excess of $100 per year just to belong!  I am glad to be out of it and those folks can fight one another to the death for all I care.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Reeves1

Quote from: Rob3865 on September 07, 2017, 05:12:47 PM
I guess either nobody knows or wants to share their info. I guess I will find out for myself when I do the install.......and keep it to myself.


Weird post...... you under some kind of stress ?

Wittsend

And, what a contrast to those who freely give here.  Recently there was a similar issue - Someone seemed a bit bothered, as if where was the dedicated, carry everything "Pinto Parts Store"?  About the closest we ever had to that was the late Fred Morgan digging parts out of his stockpile of cars.  Great guy. We swapped early for late pedals at Knotts on nothing more than each of our trusted words to show up at the event.

The other thing is this is a pretty mellow site.  I'm on some car forums that can become quite the "Bickerfest."  I've seen people here disagree, but still be civil.

dick1172762

Looks like this guy really does not like us. On March 20 /2017 he posted the following ( Then I will build my pig myself, my way and share nothing here. Thanks and adios ) Every question he is asked can be found by doing a search on here. I guess he didn't like the answers.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

40 years ago I had a friend that ran a 289 in a Pinto. He ran stock cast manifolds forwards (and possibly upwards ???). I think he then ran the the pipe under the cross member. I'll check and see if he remembers.

UPDATE: My friend responded that he had Herbert Meek headers (so I was wrong about them being cast..., maybe very early on they were). He said they went forward, then back under the cross member (which he felt was a real problem). He also referenced this sites member "Reeves1" at the Boss 302 Registry site http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=72785.0 with some header image (they may be redundant here) see reply #9 for the Meek Headers.

As to "keeping it to myself" I agree with Dick.  It comes across as rather assumptive to think people know the desired information and are deliberately keeping it from you.  This site has very low activity. V-8 Pinto's are a very small number of those here and forward mounted exhaust is pretty much a near zero experience.  To deliberately withhold information based on assumption has the appearance as retaliatory and goes against your own desire for an answer (should anyone actually be able to provide it).   It would be in the best interest of the greater Pinto Community to reconsider your position.

dick1172762

I've only seen one person on our site that ran the headers forward and you already know about that one. Your on your own about this and if you keep the answer to your self, so be it. Members on here try to help out other members, but if we members do not know what your asking for, what would you expect us to tell you. Rudeness on here will never help you find answers to any question. Sorry but that's the way it is.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Rob3865

I guess either nobody knows or wants to share their info. I guess I will find out for myself when I do the install.......and keep it to myself.

Rob3865

So, I am curious about the Fox Mustang headers flipped forward. I see the car has a 351W. Does anyone know if the headers will fit with a 302 without modifications to the fender wells? It looks like they might. Thanks.

V8 Pynto

So, where the steel motor mounts are concerned regarding a V-8 swap can you use the V-6 ones or strictly the 4 cyl ones?

Bill LBSR

This thread has helped a lot with my 302 Pinto swap. I actually found and bought a set of new Hooker 6161 V8 Swap headers and they have the directions. I tried posting them on this thread but the files are too large. If any one needs the directions I would be happy to email them.

V8_forlife

ok so I got a 1978 mustang ghia ii 302 motor an 4 speed and a 1987 mustang 5.0 h.0 motor should be set. came with almost perfect motor mounts and the motor has been rebuild. is there any other stuff I should need to take the efi motor an put it in the pinto.

V8_forlife

Does anyone have pictures of the efi harness and main harness after everything was put in the car?

Reeves1

I'll look up the part number for the Milodon pan needed for a V8 swap later.... needed for clearing the rack.

Found it:

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street-oil-pans-ford73.asp

entropy

Quote from: V8_forlife on March 16, 2014, 05:17:37 PM
Well i'm starting my swap as soon as I get my new floor pans put in which will be a while :-\ But I already have a lot of the stuff I need like the motor and trans mount which are on the way now. My only problem is im trying to keep my sway bar without having to cut the oil pan due to the fact I do not know how to weld yet. So any info on a oil pan I can use would be amazing. thanks in advance

Honestly...I wouldn't bother trying to save the sway bar.  Let's face it...V8 Pintos aren't exactly going to tear up an autocross course...3/4 of the engine is in front of the axle centerline.  V8 Pintos are for scaring yourself at the dragstrip and beating wholesale butt stoplight to stoplight on the street....and neither of those activities require a sway bar.  And the oil pan mods to make one fit...particularly if you're not an ace welder are a can-o-worms you'll want to avoid opening.
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

V8_forlife

Well i'm starting my swap as soon as I get my new floor pans put in which will be a while :-\ But I already have a lot of the stuff I need like the motor and trans mount which are on the way now. My only problem is im trying to keep my sway bar without having to cut the oil pan due to the fact I do not know how to weld yet. So any info on a oil pan I can use would be amazing. thanks in advance

beaner


V8_forlife


beaner


V8_forlife


V8_forlife


Rob3865

Trans Dapt makes a very nice universal crossmember with small block mounts for about 150 bucks total for both.

RSM

If you want to look at those go to Advanced Adapters and the part # is 713002

RSM

It's been almost 5 years since I comment on this post lol.Yes you can use the plates and mount them to the heads and frame. 2 things, if you solid mount the engine you need to solid mount the transmission. That's fine if it's a drag car but a daily driver....not a good deal. There are several ways of making engine mounts work. You can use the Mustang II mounts if you can find any, use an engine plate or fab some mounts with isolators. Advanced Adapters sell a few different styles of engine mounts that would be easy to use.

V8_forlife

Can I use just the torque link bars that attach to the heads to support the motor without any kind of engine mounts.

RSM

This will make my 347 swap into my 1980 wagon a whole easier. It's nice to see pics of the finished product, plus the info is a bonus!!  Thanks

bob55

Quote from: stever on January 23, 2007, 04:25:57 AM
this should be up front so people know its here

Moderator, any chance to pin this to the top of the Pinto FAQ section?   :fastcar:

Thanks!

Bob55
In a quandry......

gearhead440

Speed is only a question of money: Just how fast do you want to go?

stever

this should be up front so people know its here
yes i am from whiteland indiana,and no i dont know the gliddens.

MustoPentang

I own the "My $50.00 Pinto" and am contemplating installing a V8. The donor Car is a 1988 Ford Thunderbird with a 5.0
Not sure about the tranny but i do know it has OD. My question to you is can i basically swap the motor. with the exception of oil pan & Pickup and Motor Mounts Changes into the car with little or no trouble..
Parts from donor i know i need are:
EEC (Computer), and wire loom I have two style of pinto's

I need to get the Thunderbird Body out of here along with (Maybe) 1981 Ford pinto (Uknown type)Just a shell.