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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Anyone have a V6 model?

Started by nothingtodo, June 03, 2010, 09:26:18 AM

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lencost

1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

Pintopower

Back to Lencosts post about me going over the grapevine with no 2nd gear....
My C4 lost second on the way to a nor cal car show. That happens after 160,000 miles of driving and canyon runs and well, this:



Needless to say I couldn't be to angry about the loss of second BUT I still had to get back home OVER the huge mountain on the 5 freeway at Gorman, The Grapevine. Well, upon approach I hit the hill at 90+. Turns out that was not necessary. The pinto FLEW up the hill at 75 mph. I had to back off the throttle since the hill did not slow the car while doing 90. I could not believe the power that engine had. So there you go, the Grapevine with no second gear.
Here is a picture I took:
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

pintoman2.0

I have had a 78 V6 in my garage for about ten years now. Got it from a guy who aquired it free for a couple parts and let it sit in a field for ten years. THe last time it was tagged was 86 and it has 70,000 on it. I have never fired it. It does not have AC.

I have a 78 Ghia Mustang with 2.8, auto. that I drove for many years. I never had over heating problems with it but milage was as bad as my 73 LTD wagon with 400m, I concidered 16 great. The only reasoin I parked it eight years ago was because I couldn't keep oil in it, rear main.

I would love to get the Pinto running with a four speed and dual exhaust that I took off a 75 mustang.

P

78_starsky


lencost

1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

Pintosopher

Quote from: lencost on June 07, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
Pintosopher from what I understand at one time as each year advanced the vehicles requiring smog test would change. At one time 1976 models were exempted; however our friends at the state capitol decided to cease the annual change, at that time they rolled it back to 1975. See link.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2535
Leonard,
You are correct on the model year, I meant to say '76 & later cars,are the cutoff for exemption (75 & earlier exempt)
If indeed the Referee process is still functioning at CARB , we could slip in some 2.9, & 4.0l motors, but all the OEM smog stuff would have to be on the engine(76 & later cars). I would like a 2.9 or 4.0l in My 72 w/ a Manual, they would never know :read: :lol:

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

beicholz

My V6 passed CA Smog with #'s that were a small fraction of the limits.   If the car is tuned and has the catalytic converters in place, you stand a very good chance of passing.
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

dave1987

Need to move to Idaho! :lol: No smog required for vehicles built before 1980! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

lencost

Quote from: pintosopher on June 03, 2010, 03:49:25 PM
Before Jumping in on the 2.8 ( and I know many like Alberto have had great luck with theirs) Read the Wikipedia Cologne Ford v6 page for all the weaknesses of this motor. Even the 2.9 Ranger motor isn't flawless, but better than the 2.8 as a stock motor. The conversion effort is the same but the Ranger has goodies available that would be an asset. Out in CA we are screwed for swaps without a Major Smog check Hassle, everything after 76 will get an Anal exam! So we ponder the net gain on this swap.

Just  my two horse shoes worth.. UU

Pintosopher
Pintosopher from what I understand at one time as each year advanced the vehicles requiring smog test would change. At one time 1976 models were exempted; however our friends at the state capitol decided to cease the annual change, at that time they rolled it back to 1975. See link.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2535

1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

dga57

[quote And $500 for a heater core???? At that price I could do one a day (in about two hours) and have a nice weekly paycheck!! :lol:
[/quote]

If/when mine needs replacing, at least I know where to find someone who can do it in about two hours!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

beicholz

Hey 71 Pintoracer...

Heater core replacement is done.  The part was only $80.  But the entire dash had to be removed to replace it.   I don't even want to tell you how much it cost, but the shop that did it had someone drive 3 hours for the part, and then 7 hours of labor to take the dash out and put it back in.   I came by half way through, and I'm just glad I didn't try to do it myself.

Just returned from a long, hot drive...100 miles.   The V6 runs like a champ.   Quiet, smooth, and between 190 - 210 the whole time.

This is one great car!
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

71pintoracer

Quote from: beicholz on June 04, 2010, 07:48:42 AM
OK, because this seems to have become THE V6 thread, let me repeat some info I put in another thread that got from my mechanic.   I'd be interested in comments.   This shop (LA Radiator) is known as the BEST radiator place in LA...and that's saying a lot.

When I took my V6 in, he knew the engine right away, saying, "Oh, you've got the V6 2.8L.  Good engine." 

Prior to the visit, I removed, chemical flushed and re-cored the radiator.   I replaced the water pump and radiator cap.   Finally, I replaced every single hose.

Still, the car was running at 200 - 210, so I was worried.    Here's what he told me:

* 210 is fine with the kind of driving I'm doing: heavy traffic, warm weather, lots of sitting, and then creaping along at 15 MPH (come to Hollywood on a weekday and you'll see what I mean!).

* He said if I really felt I wanted to have more cooling, I could put in a 7 blade fan, but that probably wouldn't make much difference.

* Overall, he said the engine is performing great, and don't worry about it (it runs quiet and pulls STRONG).

As an addendum, I did learn that the moist air in the car and steam on the windshield was because I have a leak in the heater core.   So that has to be replaced.   Here goes another $500!

Anyway, any thoughts on my mechanic's findings?

All in all, the v6 is a decent engine. As stated before by Pinto Power, their downfall was lack of maintinance and improper tuning. The 2.3 could survive the neglect quite well.
My brother had a '71 Capri with the 2.8 and a 4 speed, it had dual exhaust and ran like a scaulded dog!! There again, take a heavier Pinto wagon, a/c, p/s, smog pump, a/t, higher gear ratio, and it was a slug in comparison.
Not sure what kind of temps PP is getting his to run at but generally speaking, 210 is not hot. I like an aluminum flex fan, they move more air and free up some ponies. You could also add an electric fan in front of the condenser, hook it up to a toggle switch (with a relay of course) and flip it on to help with cooling in traffic and when the a/c is on.
And $500 for a heater core???? At that price I could do one a day (in about two hours) and have a nice weekly paycheck!! :lol:
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

lencost

Pintopower:
Tell us about your trip over the Grapevine with no second gear.
1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

lencost

Quote from: Pintopower on June 04, 2010, 01:38:28 AM
Again with the showing off!

I missed one more yes!
Factory Ford dual exhaust!
1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

beicholz

OK, because this seems to have become THE V6 thread, let me repeat some info I put in another thread that got from my mechanic.   I'd be interested in comments.   This shop (LA Radiator) is known as the BEST radiator place in LA...and that's saying a lot.

When I took my V6 in, he knew the engine right away, saying, "Oh, you've got the V6 2.8L.  Good engine." 

Prior to the visit, I removed, chemical flushed and re-cored the radiator.   I replaced the water pump and radiator cap.   Finally, I replaced every single hose.

Still, the car was running at 200 - 210, so I was worried.    Here's what he told me:

* 210 is fine with the kind of driving I'm doing: heavy traffic, warm weather, lots of sitting, and then creaping along at 15 MPH (come to Hollywood on a weekday and you'll see what I mean!).

* He said if I really felt I wanted to have more cooling, I could put in a 7 blade fan, but that probably wouldn't make much difference.

* Overall, he said the engine is performing great, and don't worry about it (it runs quiet and pulls STRONG).

As an addendum, I did learn that the moist air in the car and steam on the windshield was because I have a leak in the heater core.   So that has to be replaced.   Here goes another $500!

Anyway, any thoughts on my mechanic's findings?
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

Pintopower

I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

lencost

Their is a few Yeses!
2.8 V6
FoMoCo C4
Ford 8"
1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

Pintopower

I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

lencost

As far as options on a Pinto mine is the King of NO!
No A/C
No Power Searing
No Power Breaks
No Deluxe Interior
1975 Wagon 8" C4 2.8 V6

Pintopower

Well, here goes...INHALE... GO!

I love the 2.8. Well tuned (not in factory guise) they run amazing. Fast and smooth and average 25-28 MPG highway. They will pull hills like they are flat land and have plenty of power for A/C cars. When they are fully dressed models, they are no harder to work on than fully dressed 2.3s. I own three of them and they every time I finish a car I continually express how much I LOVE those motors. When built correctly, the never run hot, pass california's strict smog like Sarah Jessica Parker passes a buffet and sip fuel while blasting down the road at 75 mph.

Here are the list of problems.

Pintosopher is correct, read up!

They over head because people don't maintain their cooling systems. They should like S&*% because people don't adjust the valves. These are silent motors! Mine sound like sewing machines. Aside from mine, every one I have ever heard sounds like a diesel!
They crack heads easily because why? People don't maintain their cooling systems! The thermostat bolts rot and snap off in the bypass housing because...you guessed it, no maintenance. These engines are strong but have fragile cooling systems. The stock water pump needs to be ditched in favor of the aluminum anti-cavitation pump and all bolts in the water pump/thermostat housing area MUST be 316L stainless steel.

See, stainless...


Also, those pump bearing seals are weak. They need a 7 lbs cap MAX. I have seen so many blow with 13 pounders. These engines also hate headers. You want your 2.8 to over head and crack a head? Throw some headers on it. How do I know? I had some on mine. Carbs can be an issue. The 2700 VV is a pain in the butt. It is a brilliant carb BUT never works. The 2150 on the other hand is dead reliable. The offy intake is too much for a standard or slightly modified engine. A 2bbl carb tuned properly is more then enough for a 2.8. My '79 on the dyno pulled 130 at the rear wheels just tuned, blue printed and balanced. The stock 2.8 was 105 AT THE FLY WHEEL!

Basically, I love the engine. The only reason they have a bad wrap is that the 2.3 is BULLETPROOF! The 2.8 is amazing but you can't kill a 2.3.

DBSS1234 is dead right about the 4 speed in a Pinto. It would have been faster than a mustang.

So, would I swap a 2.3 for a 2.8? If the 2.3 is an auto, yes. If it is a stick, I could go either way if dropping the auto in with the 2.8. I know a guy that has four 2.8 Pintos with t5 trannys. I am going to do that conversion on my '79.

In closing, I love my 2.8's.
I also love my 2.3's.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

beicholz

My 2.8 in CA passed first time with flying colors...tons of margin left.    As long as you haven't removed smog equipment and as long as the car is from CA,  you should be good to go.
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

Pintosopher

Before Jumping in on the 2.8 ( and I know many like Alberto have had great luck with theirs) Read the Wikipedia Cologne Ford v6 page for all the weaknesses of this motor. Even the 2.9 Ranger motor isn't flawless, but better than the 2.8 as a stock motor. The conversion effort is the same but the Ranger has goodies available that would be an asset. Out in CA we are screwed for swaps without a Major Smog check Hassle, everything after 76 will get an Anal exam! So we ponder the net gain on this swap.

Just  my two horse shoes worth.. UU

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

popbumper

I love these 2.8  threads. Thinking about doing a 2.3 - 2.8 conversion myself. If anyone can help me on my other thread, please do. Thanks!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

DBSS1234

I have read a couple places that said when the mustang was compared to the pinto the Pinto actually out performed a slightest increase over the Mustang, so ford had to "state" that the mustang's #'s where higher.  I could stand to be corrected if the information that I had read is not 100% correct.  I am sure someone here can give further references to this point.

Along these lines, have you ever wondered why you could not get a 4 speed with a V-6 in a Pinto? I tried everything to get one in my Crusing Wagon in 1977 but Ford would not do it. Many years later I met an engineer who worked at Ford in the 70's and he expalined why. If you ordered a Mustang II with a V-6 and a 4 speed it would be slower than a Pinto with the same drive train due to the Pinto being lighter weight. Ford could not let this happen so...... no V-6, 4 speed Pintos!

beicholz

I have one with 41K miles.   It runs great...powerful, smooth, good compression.   I've heard these engines are durable, but tend to run hot.   That's true with mine.    It's going to a radiator shop today to have a complete check up to avoid a disaster later.   Things other site members have taught me (especially Fred Morgan, Pintopower - thanks!):

* Sediment builds up in radiator - chemical flush it
* Keep hoses new
* Install a temperature gauge

Other than my cooling issue, which I  hope to resolve this week, I'm very pleased with this engine.   With this engine, the Pinto feels more like a smooth luxury car than an econobox.  Of course, I love econoboxes too!   I see a Pinto 2300 in my future too.
1973 Pinto Squire, 59K Miles, 2.0, Auto P/B, A/C
1972 VW Karmann Ghia Convert. (Red/Black), 2K Miles on restoration, One Owner
1972 Chevy Vega (virtual owner - in the junkyard)
2011 Subaru Outback 4WD
1 Yam. Golf Cart: Our "car" on Catalina Island

DBSS1234

I ordered my 1977 Crusing Wagon late in 1976 with out A/C. I vividly remember the salesman trying to get me to order the A/C. He even tried to convince me that A/C would save gas as I would not need to roll the windows down, so there would be less drag! NO, I didn't fall for it!
As for the engine and it's power, I love it. It will bury the 85 mph speedometer.

78_starsky

Hi,  we have a 2.8, it is torn apart at the moment and I will be giving her a rebuild.  This motor came out of a (build date) 01-78 and the car didn't come with A/C.  it was an option on the build sheet. I have the original sales reciept with the listed options that the purchaser picked.  the A/C was not written in.

As for power, from what I can gather from reading the internet about 2.8's and the early/mid 70's cars was that Ford had to set the factory HP on these cars/motors at lower ratings so that the "new" mustangs sold better numbers. I have read a couple places that said when the mustang was compared to the pinto the Pinto actually out performed a slightest increase over the Mustang, so ford had to "state" that the mustang's #'s where higher.  I could stand to be corrected if the information that I had read is not 100% correct.  I am sure someone here can give further references to this point.

cheers

beegle55

I own a 76' V6 that will be restored shortly but is in great running order. It delivers a surprising amount of torque and runs very strong...I can smoke both tires on the 8" rear. I have a 2.3 model too and you can definitely tell a difference (but the cars are as different as night and day lol).

The HP and TQ ratings differed from year to year (the listed power that is) and changed due to different rating methods. The highest power either engine got was 2.3 L 92 hp and 121 ft·lb;
2.8 L 103 hp and 149 ft·lb in 1976.

And btw my unit does have factory air although I'm not 100% sure all V6's were equipped with it.
     
     -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

Starsky and Hutch

1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

nothingtodo

Just wondering how popular the V6 option is. For a short time, I had a V6 wagon but sold it since the engine had low oil pressure. Looks like a crowded engine bay since they all came standard with AC included from what I can tell. Anyone getting decent power from it? I don't think it was rated much higher than the 2.3