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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Clunker Car Carnage

Started by Wittsend, September 04, 2009, 11:45:04 PM

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discolives78

Yeah, what a waste.

I went to u-pull-it this morning, very disappointed that I can't actually use anything from any of the carnage. And why would anyone buy parts for one of the vehicles on the list? Seems like the next wave will take more of the same.

On the other hand, I was trying to pay attention to what was on the road today and in peoples driveways, and really, it doesn't seem to have made any difference in everyday life. You still see a lot of big pickups, suvs and vans here. You can't get rid of them all, if you do you'll also kill the RV and boat industries(not just the manufacturers, but the campgrounds and lakes these vehicles frequent). Try to pull a 25 foot camper with your Aveo, I dare you! Can you haul a backhoe with your 4 cylinder Tacoma? See, they are needed.

On a side note, I caught a program on tv the other night called "Who Killed the Electric Car". Very worthwhile watching, especially for you Californians. They don't want us to get good gas mileage, or replace internal combustion for that matter. 1 trillion barrels of oil left and they mean to sell every last drop of it. And if it's the 'only' option (the car makers and gov't see to that) then whatever 'scarcity' can be applied only increases the price of the remaining supply. I saw a b/w clip from the 50's when the oil rigs first came to Iraq, they were actually touting the blessings that the oil industry would bring that region (there were no car bombs going off in the old footage!)

It's just all sad, very very sad. Good thing I have antidepressents to keep reality from really sinking in  ;D

:afro:

P.S. New Mexico's budget is in the crapper due to natural gas prices falling. What ever happened to the CNG vehicles anyway?


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

PintosRCool

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on October 10, 2009, 05:32:53 AM
What a waste of Nice cars

You took the words right out of my mouth. Very sad indeed.
FORGET WHAT THEY SAY - WATCH WHAT THEY DO!

75bobcatv6


Wittsend

Hi,
I'm the guy who started this post.  I was at the U-Pick Parts in Sun Valley, CA today.  There are SO many clunkers that they had to partition off part of the parking lot and angle stack the cars. THis picture only shows about 20% of the cars.
Tom

PintosRCool

Quote from: popbumper on October 09, 2009, 11:00:32 AM
Hey!!! I know!!! Why don't we award the Nobel Peace Prize to the clown who is driving all these goverment programs forward? Oh, never mind..... >:(

....completely and utterly flabbergasted at what this country is becoming....

Chris


And here's the part you WON'T hear, or see on any MSM. The voting for that wonderful (BARF! SPIT! PHOOEY!) prize had to be in by February. That means "The One" was only in office a couple of weeks when they decided on him. Isn't that nice?  
FORGET WHAT THEY SAY - WATCH WHAT THEY DO!

PintosRCool

Quote from: rear ended on October 08, 2009, 10:01:33 PM
Funny how a Pinto forum became a political platform.  I would say the most depressing thing about the cash for clunkers was it was supposed to boost the American economy.  With that thought, why did they allow clunkers to be traded in for foreign cars?  Toyotas, nissans, Hondas and Volkwagens should not have been part of the equation.  Car & Driver had a great artical, the basis was how stupid this whole thing is that we need to sell 14 million cars a year, that we have increased our sales practically every year since cars were created.  We do not have to sell 14 million cars per manufacturer a year and by convincing the American public that they need a new car when they cannot afford one will only make the coming year even worse for the car makers when no one will buy next year.  cars for clunkers was a bad idea, forcing Americans to consume whe they can't afford it is a bad idea.  you want a good idea, double the tax on imported items so American products are affordable and we can let go of cheap Chinese crap.  maybe we won't be able to afford as much, but do we need this much crap, i mean who needs four plasma television, ipods, blackberries, etc. etc.  rebuild your Pinto!!!!! 


Well Said.  SALUTE!!
FORGET WHAT THEY SAY - WATCH WHAT THEY DO!

PintosRCool

Quote from: popbumper on October 09, 2009, 11:00:32 AM
Hey!!! I know!!! Why don't we award the Nobel Peace Prize to the clown who is driving all these goverment programs forward? Oh, never mind..... >:(

....completely and utterly flabbergasted at what this country is becoming....

Chris

I hear ya. Makes me so @#&$ing mad too.
FORGET WHAT THEY SAY - WATCH WHAT THEY DO!

PintosRCool

Quote from: Carolina Boy on September 05, 2009, 12:44:35 AM
Two junk yards here in NC got closed down for selling parts off clunker.
Thanks Comrade Obama, isn't socialism great, NOT!!!!

I'm with ya on that. I can't stomach that commie neither. He hsn't a clue. In my book, "The One" is a ZERO!
FORGET WHAT THEY SAY - WATCH WHAT THEY DO!

popbumper

Hey!!! I know!!! Why don't we award the Nobel Peace Prize to the clown who is driving all these goverment programs forward? Oh, never mind..... >:(

....completely and utterly flabbergasted at what this country is becoming....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

blupinto

Hey! I like my ipod!  ;D

I hear you all on the other stuff though. Weren't we the people supposed to get a "stimulus" check of about $400? I know that's our tax money too, but that's WAY better than Cash for Clunkers! At the local junkyard I couldn't believe the cars that were systematically discarded- Cherokees, Rodeos, Explorers, 4Runners... such a waste...
One can never have too many Pintos!

Norman Bagi

Funny how a Pinto forum became a political platform.  I would say the most depressing thing about the cash for clunkers was it was supposed to boost the American economy.  With that thought, why did they allow clunkers to be traded in for foreign cars?  Toyotas, nissans, Hondas and Volkwagens should not have been part of the equation.  Car & Driver had a great artical, the basis was how stupid this whole thing is that we need to sell 14 million cars a year, that we have increased our sales practically every year since cars were created.  We do not have to sell 14 million cars per manufacturer a year and by convincing the American public that they need a new car when they cannot afford one will only make the coming year even worse for the car makers when no one will buy next year.  cars for clunkers was a bad idea, forcing Americans to consume whe they can't afford it is a bad idea.  you want a good idea, double the tax on imported items so American products are affordable and we can let go of cheap Chinese crap.  maybe we won't be able to afford as much, but do we need this much crap, i mean who needs four plasma television, ipods, blackberries, etc. etc.  rebuild your Pinto!!!!! 

Crazybry79

I agree with you all.  But think about long term.  As stated...a good chunk of these cars will be lost, due to loss of employment...thus loss of car....thus hindering the economy just a tad more.

Now what did this do to the USED car market?  Well, we all know supply and demand...  Well, these :cough: clunkers :cough: that are eliminated from the used car pool make up a good percent of what typical used car dealerships resell.  If their supply of thses used cars go down...their cost of them goes up.  That means YOUR cost goes up.  Wait...we are tight ecomnomicly already.  And if we couldnt afoord a "Clunker deal", we SURE cant afford a price inflated used car.  Now that over extended used car lot isnt selling cars....so he closes.  Well, they made 2 jobs....lost 6.

But wait...that V8 olds (that gets 23MPG, according to the CARS website), the government paid $4500 for it.  Good deal, right? Well.....actually.... where does that $4500 come from?  Thats right the goverment.  But where does Uncle Sam get his money?  From you!   Thats right...WE paid $4500 for that car.  And the next.  and the next. and the....well, you get it.

I agree.  Most re-god-d@mned-diculous program I ever heard of!
Why do you park in a driveway, and drive in a parkway?  A cargo goes by ship, a shipmeny goes by truck.....You have a pair of panties, but just one bra......

dga57

I'm sure you're not the only one in that situation!  Cash for Clunkers was an ill conceived, poorly executed program if ever there was one! 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

mynewpinto

Well guys I have to throw in my 2 cents here because I live in southern WV and Im not sure how the rest of the country is.  Here if you dont work in the coal mines or you and your spouse both work you cant afford to live and thats the way it has to be here there really is no other choice thought the gas feild is starting to pick up but the good jobs here are impossible to get and the crapy job that I had I lost and lost my car Because I couldnt afford it. But at that time you could drive 2 miles from my house and have stoped and looked at 10 cars and trucks for under 1000 dollars. Im really glad someone posted this cause I was wandering where all these cars had went. Well now I know and if there really is something we can do to fix this messed up government we are living under I am more than willing to help just please someone let me know where to start. And by the way the only reason I didnt bye during the cash for clunkers is because while my tax dollars were paying for someone else to get a new car I couldnot and still can not afford one.   Thanx guys for letting me get that off my chest.

discolives78

Quote from: dholvrsn on September 13, 2009, 12:02:26 PM
If you ever noticed, US politics produces mainly mostly pot versus kettle arguments. Because of some luck of the draw, the argument here is heavy weighted towards one utensil....  :P

I'm not partial to spoon or fork...pot or kettle. If G.W. wanted cash4clunkr'$ I still wouldn't have supported it. :drunk:

Quote from: pintosopher on September 14, 2009, 01:54:02 PM
We are here because of a Flawed state of "Objectivity" that began over 40 years ago, thinking we could have our "cake" and "eat" it with no consequence.


It's funny how much the 'richest' country in the world wastes. Some of the consequence is ironic. Nobody's buying new trash because we're surrounded by old trash. We can't simply buy our way out of trash. We're at a tipping point too in that we've run short of materials to make new trash, so your old car will become a refrigerator...but at what cost? The more people have to touch something, the more it costs.  :-\

I'm just for freedom man. If you can't afford to feed your Hummer, don't make me pay you to buy a new Toyota.  >:(

We as individual Americans though do have a spirit of "helping our fellow man", though. There has always been some 'entitlement' system in this country, be it land grants, soup kitchens, etc. How far back can we scale things? With 300 million plus inhabitants, you would expect sort of a big representative govern, but more people equals thinner rations. Are we "too big to fail" as a nation? Gets scary if I think about it too much. :drunk:

My mom told me the easiest way to  get in trouble is to talk about politics or religion :cheesy_n:


Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

Pintosopher

Again ... Does Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged ring a bell? We are here because of a Flawed state of "Objectivity" that began over 40 years ago, thinking we could have our "cake" and "eat" it with no consequence.
Well, we're just about all in "Metabolic Syndrome " and the Republic is Type 2 diabetic.

Too bad , Activist or Insulin, your Choice.

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Pale Roader

Quote from: dholvrsn on September 13, 2009, 12:02:26 PM
If you ever noticed, US politics produces mainly mostly pot versus kettle arguments. Because of some luck of the draw, the argument here is heavy weighted towards one utensil....  :P

Yeah, i noticed that pretty quick...

Pale Roader

Quote from: popbumper on September 13, 2009, 11:38:12 AM
Wow! By comparison Obamanation is better than what you have? How sad....and even sadder, he is making every effort to turn America into the same environment you have. Can you see why he is so hated? Really makes you wonder how he got into office in the first place, and how the heck we can get him out even faster.

The new "America the Beautiful" will be written like this - "O-Bama and his spacious lies......"

Chris

Yes, it is better. No matter how bad things are or get there, people still show up for elections. And they KNOW WHEN those elections take place. Up here elections come and go with alarming regularity... Everyone is so incredibly apathetic we dont even pay attention anymore. As i type this they are talking about another one now... and we just HAD one!

dholvrsn

If you ever noticed, US politics produces mainly mostly pot versus kettle arguments. Because of some luck of the draw, the argument here is heavy weighted towards one utensil....  :P
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

popbumper


And not that i want to make this thread any more political, but hol-EEE do you guys seem to hate Obama. Trust me, even if he is the very face ov Satan that his worst hater makes him out to be (which i'm guessing he isn't), he's INFINITELY better than the idiots we have up here. My GOD what i'd give to have a guy like him up here. And i dont even know anything about him. (yes, its that bad here...)

Wow! By comparison Obamanation is better than what you have? How sad....and even sadder, he is making every effort to turn America into the same environment you have. Can you see why he is so hated? Really makes you wonder how he got into office in the first place, and how the heck we can get him out even faster.

The new "America the Beautiful" will be written like this - "O-Bama and his spacious lies......"

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Carolina Boy

Map351,
Yesterday I watched American speak out out the March on Washington. If you seen how many people were there, you would know we love America and will die for it. Fox and NBC reported over 2 MILLION FM MAD AMERICANS! This is as you say the GREATEST country, 2010 will prove it!!

Palerider,
If you want Obamy you can have him! Socialism is NOT welcomed in America! By the way you can have his cabinet and czars. too!

The Clunker thing was all a farce, a waste of time, money and good cars and a way to take the pressure off the government's reported screw ups.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

Pale Roader

Quote from: map351 on September 12, 2009, 08:56:16 AM
You should be fighting to remove the scum bags in Washington making these laws!
If you Hate America Move to Cuba see how you like it there!

This is the greatest country on the planet just need new leadership!


Keep in mind i live in Canada, not the US. And my country or the people in it are no better. I spent some time in Europe recently, and while its certainly got its own issues, the general level ov intelligence and overall efficiency ov pretty much everything is higher. I was only there for lil less than a month, but i tell ya, being back here was bloody depressing. And by the way, 'America' (including Canada) is only as good as the people in it. So all the good intentions in the country dont amount to shizod if it doesn't go past talk. Actually sounds like you guys have it a lot worse than we do.

I wonder if they have that same BS here. I haven't heard much, if anything about clunker bills here. Possibly out East? Man this pisses me off, but then again, its ALWAYS automotive things that make me hate. Maybe i'm in the wrong business... haha.

And not that i want to make this thread any more political, but hol-EEE do you guys seem to hate Obama. Trust me, even if he is the very face ov Satan that his worst hater makes him out to be (which i'm guessing he isn't), he's INFINITELY better than the idiots we have up here. My GOD what i'd give to have a guy like him up here. And i dont even know anything about him. (yes, its that bad here...)

That poor Oldsmobile...

71pintoracer

Chuck, from what the yard that is contracted to get our clunkers told me, they can remove and sell any part they want except the engine. Anything they want to remove and store to sell later is fine. After 180 days the remainder of the car will be crushed. I don't know how whomever is in charge of this mess determines that the actual clunker is the one that was crushed. Of couse the title is branded so it can never be put on the road again but if they have 100 clunkers do they have some gov't official right there documenting each and every VIN that is crushed? Or does the yard just turn in 100 crushed cars?
And yea, he have some questionable clunkers, a v6 auto long bed Ranger, v6 Explorers, a Volvo wagon (very nice car!) The money spent on this mess is staggering, the billions they approved for the clunkers is just the tip of the iceburg!! >:(
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

discolives78

What got me about the whole thing, was that gas mileage was supposed to be the objective here. While watching them talk about it on CNN and Fox news I saw their footage of 'clunkers'. Yes, there were the usual suspects, the late 90's Explorers and such, but in a few scenes they showed a Nissan pickup from about 85-86, an early 90's Civic and Volvos! Most of that stuff would have to do better than the 18 mpg that was supposed to be the minimum qualifier. Remember that it was according to EPA estimates and not real world driving because of miles and poor maintenance.

I was dissapointed that these cars are going to waste. A lot of the cars they crushed looked better than I can afford to buy! I did see a video of the silica on one of the news programs too! They put in a Mercedes M-class SUV!

I've also seen some of the carnage here at the u-pull it, they say "Not For Highway Use" on the windshields! I believe in New Mexico, theoretically, that means that they could be used as offroad vehicles after the destroyed engines have been replaced(presumably with a readily available 'crate engine'). I do live in the 'wild' west! There are probably people that would love to have a 2001 F250 for a trail truck or rock crawler!

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

75bobcatv6

I am disappointed in the leadership of our country, not the county itself. though i think more of us should Voice our opinions, thoughts and wants in the general public. to be heard anymore we have to make a stink about it. we have to stand up and say no more. wonder if we as a country can rally and petition to Impeach the president of the US and re-elect someone better for the position

RSM

Pale Roader...don't hate America...hate the jackasses that are running it. Those are the ones fooking everything up....especially the dumbass they put in office. And I do excersize my right to free speech...LOL

map351

Quote from: Pale Roader on September 12, 2009, 08:26:25 AM
I really do hate America (and that means Canada too) more every day.

You should be fighting to remove the scum bags in Washington making these laws!
If you Hate America Move to Cuba see how you like it there!

This is the greatest country on the planet just need new leadership!
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

Pale Roader

THAT... is the most doggone offensively ignorant thing i've seen in a long time. Just thinking that someone has done this to a few usable cars makes me want to kill someone. If that was happening here and i saw anything good in the lot i'd be stealing cars.

An aside... that "junk" Oldsmobile V8 they just destroyed sounded better (smoother, cleaner, more efficient) than any 'high-performance' or 'built' Mopar V8 i've ever heard. The only 'junk' in this scenario was the shizod whatever waste ov life thought this up was freebasing on.

I really do hate America (and that means Canada too) more every day.

Srt

Quote from: blupinto on September 11, 2009, 10:42:09 PM
silica...as in sand? What a waste of sand and engine. Did the people who implemented this dumb "cash for clunkers" really think they'd make a difference in what America drives? What a horrible farce.  >:(

The 'people ' who implemented this are the ones who don't let their 'elected' representatives hear their opinions on what the 'gov' is planning on doing.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!