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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Buying 1980 Pinto...Help please

Started by Yzzerdd, August 22, 2009, 10:19:30 PM

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Srt

Quote from: RSM on August 23, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
I really wish people would get off the "burst into flames" kick when it comes to a Pinto.

Amen
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

dga57

Quote from: 71pintoracer on August 23, 2009, 08:57:57 PM
Dream on, RSM. It's like being short (I'm 5'2") you just have to learn to live with it because that's all you ever hear.
BTW, maybe I'm being a  :showback:, but I don't care what kind of car I'm driving, if I get hit in the rear and the doors get jammed shut and the car is on fire, I'm comming the he** out of the window!!    ??? DUH! The door won't open, I'll just sit here and burn up! Paleeeze!  ???
But I degress. Did you hear about the 911 call from the woman who was sitting on Wal-Mart parking lot? Her battery went dead and she called 911 because she couldn't get the power door locks to unlock the doors so she could get out. She was getting overheated and panicing. The 911 operator was like, "Ummm, can't you just pull the little knob up and get out?" True story.

Reminds me of a story about a pickup load of folks (three in the cab, four in the bed) who ran into a river.  The three in the front survived by climbing out the windows, but the four in the bed drowned because they tailgate jammed and they couldn't get it open. :lol:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

Quote from: 71pintoracer on August 23, 2009, 08:57:57 PM
Dream on, RSM. It's like being short (I'm 5'2") you just have to learn to live with it because that's all you ever hear.
BTW, maybe I'm being a  :showback:, but I don't care what kind of car I'm driving, if I get hit in the rear and the doors get jammed shut and the car is on fire, I'm comming the he** out of the window!!    ??? DUH! The door won't open, I'll just sit here and burn up! Paleeeze!  ???
But I degress. Did you hear about the 911 call from the woman who was sitting on Wal-Mart parking lot? Her battery went dead and she called 911 because she couldn't get the power door locks to unlock the doors so she could get out. She was getting overheated and panicing. The 911 operator was like, "Ummm, can't you just pull the little knob up and get out?" True story.

HA! I'm 5'2" too! That's all right, 71PR! We canm get into smaller spaces than the taller folks! lol.

I've heard of the panicked automatic doorlock story. Too bad automatic windows don't have a manual option in case the works stop working (in my case the relay.)

Yzzerdd, I'm sorry the guy changed his mind after you were getting interested. I'm enough of a Pintophile to hope you'll get a Pinto anyway, even if it's not that one but you'll have to do what's best for you and your situation. Good luck whatever you decide and do.  ;)
One can never have too many Pintos!

RSM

You gotta hate it when that happens

Yzzerdd

OH Mother ******. I called him up saying I'm ready to get the car this week and he tells me it's not for sale anymore. After spending time cleaning the lines and getting it looking nice, he decided to keep it.

GAHH! I offered him $900, highest I can go. I guess we'll see. Not like the car is the only car I'm looking at. Theres also a 75 Vista Cruiser wagon, and the option of taking my money and getting my Cutlass back in a few weeks from WV. We'll see.

--Ryan

RSM

I agree...ur being an  :showback:....lol

Yzzerdd

Oh I was just TRYING to be funny about the bursting into flames thing. I didn't realize it would spark so much commotion. My bad. Anyhow, looks like I'll get the car this week. I've got a definate buyer on my car(Or so he tells me) tomorrow, and I've got a spare I can drive around for a few weeks or so until I get the brakes working. Long story short, my brother has a warrant for his arrest, and he drives a nice Explorer that is not his, but is my dads. He's turning himself in, and could be in jail anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. Score! I'll miss him(He's pretty cool) but hey, I've got a car with AC to cruise in for awhile. I'll hopefully have the Cutlass down here by Christmas, but we'll see.

Thanks for the help! I look forward to being a....Pintinian (Pintoer?) and to the many hours of hard work and frustration I intend to put into the car. And the many, many question's I'll have.

--Ryan

71pintoracer

Quote from: RSM on August 23, 2009, 05:42:40 PM
I really wish people would get off the "burst into flames" kick when it comes to a Pinto.
Dream on, RSM. It's like being short (I'm 5'2") you just have to learn to live with it because that's all you ever hear.
BTW, maybe I'm being a  :showback:, but I don't care what kind of car I'm driving, if I get hit in the rear and the doors get jammed shut and the car is on fire, I'm comming the he** out of the window!!    ??? DUH! The door won't open, I'll just sit here and burn up! Paleeeze!  ???
But I degress. Did you hear about the 911 call from the woman who was sitting on Wal-Mart parking lot? Her battery went dead and she called 911 because she couldn't get the power door locks to unlock the doors so she could get out. She was getting overheated and panicing. The 911 operator was like, "Ummm, can't you just pull the little knob up and get out?" True story.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

RSM

I really wish people would get off the "burst into flames" kick when it comes to a Pinto.

78squirewagon

BUY IT!!!!!  Then you will be part of a very special group that will help you in anyway they can. Plus you will draw more attention to you and the Pinto than you will in your "other" cars  :D
1978 Squire wagon,red, 69000 and counting original miles

1978 Hatchback, red (built four days after  the Squire)

Carolina Boy

Here is my three cents worth. Buy the pinto, bring yer good car down (have it to use while you work on the Pinto). You can take your time on the Pinto brakes and other things and get them right and safe. You do know there are many Pintoers on this site right there in Texas that would help you at a drop of the hat. Just ask.
I say go get the Pinto!!!
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

blupinto

I hear you Ryan about expenses. I was just making a suggestion. Back in early '91 I was on the lookout for a Pinto and I responded to an ad about an early one a few miles away. It cost me $50 to have our family mechanic look at the car I was salivating for (did I mention I'm a confirmed Pinto nut?) and he pointed out things like the crack in the windshield my star-filled eyes missed and other things that made him nervous. It was a beaut too- dark blue metallic. I admit I wasn't experienced with car mechanics then. The previous December I lost my '82 Capri to a fuel line leak fire- that I smelled in plenty of time but dismissed it as something else.

As for the brake system- I'll hope for the best for you. I've been fortunate to not have brake issues save brake pad replacement and rotor turning/replacement on the Rodeo. If you're wanting that Pinto I hope you'll get it! I think you'll have fun in it!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Yzzerdd

Heh, I actually called my uncle (Grandpa was alseep most likely when I called) and he said that a car that sat that long will need new brake fluid. He told me that it's a great idea to drain the fluid and that blowing compressed air through the lines won't hurt anything, and will clear any blockages. Same basic thing I've read and that I thought. From there, its the question of which is better....Gravity bleed the brakes or do it the standard way with a half full coke bottle of brake fluid?

--Ryan

dga57

Hey Ryan,

Can you pick up the phone and call your Grandpa?  He might be able to shed a little light on the braking system! 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Yzzerdd

Well I'll check the brakes more thoroughly when I look at it again, but it didn't seem like anything was leaking. He was an honest older guy and there was no fluid seen on the concrete the car was parked on. He had the front end on ramps and the rear on jackstands because he's been working on it(cleaned gas lines, cleaning carb, new fuel pump, etc). My problem with having a mechanic come out is the price. It'll probably be pretty costly to get a mechanic out there to run through the brakes.

--Ryan

blupinto

I'm nobody's mechanic but that's why a) I'd have somebody (professional mechanic) look at the brake system before you buy it and b) check for leaks in your brake lines. I don't know why there's nasty stuff in the master cylinder but air does sometimes have funny ways of getting into brake lines- especially if the car's been sitting for a long time. Yes definitely drain and clean brake system.


That all said, it is an old car, and you may have to replace things like lines and cylinders but if you really want and like the car it won't matter in the end. Here's my philosophy (as if you asked! lol.  ;D :P :lol:) the more modern cars cost a lot more in parts than the old soldiers like our Pintos (ever try to replace a headlight assembly on a '90s Honda Accord or replace a coil in a '97 Isuzu Rodeo? ($180 a pop- YAAAAH!) Parts for Pintos are relatively cheap but like I said- these cars are not spring chickens.

  OK I'll hop off my soapbox now.  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Wow, Ryan!  That's quite an assortment of vehicles!  All the way from a 280Z to a Suburban!  I'm 52 and have owned 47 cars since I turned 16... my original 1974 Pinto Runabout was my very first... current primary ride is 2008 Chrysler Sebring Convertible.  Have pretty much run the gammut myself, having owned everything from Pintos to Rolls-Royces, with lots of other stuff in between!

What you're saying about the brakes makes sense to me but I'm hoping someone else is going to read this thread and jump in with some good advice - I'm definitely not the right person for mechanical advice!  If someone doesn't help you out soon, I'll PM you the name of a member who can probably tell you whatever you need to know.  You can PM him, and tell him I sent you.

As for the "blowing up" thing, it was greatly exaggerated.  Don't be afraid to let the girlfriend drive the Pinto... they are actually VERY tough little cars and that issue was resolved long before the car you're looking at was manufactured - it only applied to the earlier model years.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Yzzerdd

Yeah, I'm not too worried about the car blowing up. I'm still not going to let my gf drive it, though. She can drive the Cutlass. Even if its a 1 in 100 chance that the thing catches fire, I'd feel terrible.

Moving on.

I don't have any family down here that is a mechanic, but I lived in WV for several years in the same town as my grandpa, a previous mechanic on 60s-70s cars, and my uncle, who worked on 70s-80s cars. They've taught me ALOT and I'm pretty good at getting things done under the hood, under the dash, and under the car. I'm the one called when family and friends here have car troubles.

Its relieving to hear someone say its probably just air in the lines. Thats what I thought too, but I've read some serious brake problems on here. The fluid, as I said, looks pretty nasty. I've done brake work and I know brake fluid shouldn't look like this. Plus, sitting that long, it's bound to have seeped in some water too, right? Probably best to drain the system and refill. The lines don't seem to have leaks. If they did, I think the brake fluid would already be gone. When I apply the brakes(and they arent working, as I said), should anything happen in the MC? Gurgling, visible fluid moving, etc? I mean there can't be THAT much wrong, right? It was perfectly fine when parked some number of years ago. I guess my biggest fear is that I buy it and I'm stuck working on it for awhile because it turns out the brakes need full new lines(lack of cash) and the wheel cylinders replaced. But they do SEEM fine anyhow. Everything rolls right, and the e-brake works perfectly(Surprising!).

Thanks for the suggestions, and the welcome. I hope to hear more thoughts on the situation.

--Ryan
Ive had 6 cars in the last year. Want to see them? http://www.cardomain.com/id/Yzzerdd

blupinto

 :welcome: to the land of Pintos Yzzerdd!

      First off, Dwayne's right- this sounds like a deal. If the engine runs without odd, disturbing noises and it actually moves without clunking or hesitations I'd grab it. If it were in an area that got yearly snowfall I'd look for rust in the floor pan and trunk area. The brakes sound like they have air in the lines, so it's not a bad idea to replace the lines themselves or at least test them for leaks.


        I have to address this: The '71-'76 Pinto sedans/Runabouts had a design flaw where the gas tank was situated too close to the differential so that in a rear-end collision there was a likelyhood of the car catching on fire when the tank was ruptured and/or the filler tube was pulled out. Sadly some folks were killed but not all rear-end collisions resulted in death or the car catching on fire. Many of these earlier Pintos were recalled and had a plastic barrier placed between the tank and the differential cover. '77-'80s had redesigned tanks and (I think) filler tubes and/or their connections, so you wouldn't have to worry so much. I personally prefer the earlier models but I love all Pintos and always have.

       If you have a mechanic in the family or know one you trust it's a good idea to have them be with you to inspect the car and possibly find something expensive that you might not see. I hope all will go in your favor though so good luck!  ;D :) :welcome:
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Hey Ryan - Like I said, I'm no mechanic but I'm pretty sure you'll have to bleed the brake lines if you replace the master cylinder.  You want to get all that cruddy old brake fluid out anyway ;D.  There is lots of information here about all kinds of things, including brakes, and if you run into problems there are lots of first-rate mechanics here to help bail you out.  I would love to see you go for it!  My 16-year-old thinks my Pinto is the ugliest thing in the world and so far, I haven't been able to change his opinion.  Whatever you decide, keep us up to date!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Yzzerdd

Yeah, that was my thoughts. Guy said no one has seen it but me. I mean it looks great. But here's the deal. I'm 17, go to school, have a gf(soon to be fiance) etc. No car for any amount of time is a fairly big deal. I'm her ride to school. On one hand, I can probably get it all working right in less than a week. On the other, if I can't, I'm pretty well stuck between a rock and a hard place, because I dont have a job(I've applied at 59!!!! Places since Feb). But, I've got another car in WV. Its a nice car. AC, drives great, I've put thousands of miles on it. I can get it here to TX for $300($150 plane ticket, $120 gas). If I sell my current car for $900, buy the Pinto for $700, and then put that $200 with my other $100 I have saved, I can get the car down here. But then I've got no extra money(pretty much) and a Pinto that needs work. But see, on a whole different thing, I could just buy the Pinto, put that $300 into getting the car acting right and inspected, and maybe have a reliable car for around town. But things don't usually go that smoothly. Hmm...I guess you're right. I mean if all the brakes need is new fluid and maybe a new master cylinder, I'd be alright. Suppose I'll go check the lights and wiring on the car sometime this week. If I buy a new MC, will I have to bleed it? How is that done?

--Ryan

dga57

I am not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but my opinion is:  if you can get THAT car, with that much work already done, for $700, GRAB IT!  Of course, it wouldn't hurt to offer a little less... you never know.  Car looks solid.  Shouldn't take a lot to make a nice driver out of it.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Yzzerdd

Hello,

Not new to the concept of forums and etiquitte. I'm sorry that my first post is a help post. And maybe in the wrong category. But I have alot of general questions, so I thought this would be best. I've done some searching.

I'm looking at a 1980 Pinto Pony. Looks great. Original owner, 77K on the 2.3, auto trans. I can get it for $700. Looks great inside and out. He let it sit for 12 years, but has done some work getting it back up to par. He redid alot of wiring where mice chewed through. He cleaned the gas lines and had the fuel tank cleaned professionally. Hes even installing a brand new fuel pump. The car runs great by pouring gas into the carb. Good tires. Not so good brakes. The handbrake works, but the regualar brakes don't. Clear to the floor. I've read alot of advice on this. The master cyliner looks OK, dirty on the outside. The fluid is awful nasty. Its a disgusting blackish brown with a film on top of the front resivour. I think that the brakes need to be drained, compressed air blasted through the lines, fluid added, brakes bled. What do ya'll think about that?

Is there anything I need to look at closely when viewing the car again? Obviously the fluids need to be flushed, refilled, etc. But are there common problems I should be aware of? I'm new to the Pinto, never seen one before today. I have heard of them, and their problems. Specifically bursting into flames and the occupants stuck inside because the doors are jambed shut. Luckily this one doesn't have that issue! Well, it probably won't burst into flames. There is a guard between the tank and differential, as well as a longer feeder from the filler into the tank(or something like that).

As I said, looks like I clean car. No huge problems that I've seen, straight body. Good paint, great interior.  Pics at the link below my name. Also, took forever for me to figure out how to post. Prolly in the FAQs, though.

--Ryan
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1312840115.html