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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Calenders for 2010 start early this year!

Started by FCANON, April 13, 2009, 10:40:46 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

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pintogirl

Quote from: 78squirewagon on November 08, 2009, 05:35:46 AM
I want to pre-order 20 of them  ;D   Maybe more if the price is right

LOL, we don't set the price! CafePress does! I'm almost done with it!!!! I have my final pic, but am waiting to see if it comes in a larger size! The image size really makes a difference! 640x??? is not a good size. 3000x???? is!!! The bigger the better!!!

Like I said in another post, NEXT year make sure you all take you pics in the biggest size your camera allows. Most go to a very high number!!!

Calender is almost here!!!!! 
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

78squirewagon

I want to pre-order 20 of them  ;D   Maybe more if the price is right
1978 Squire wagon,red, 69000 and counting original miles

1978 Hatchback, red (built four days after  the Squire)

pintogirl

Ok, I am waiting on Joe's wagon pic to come to my email! But I wanted to let you all know that I can't guarantee what this thing (the calender) will look like in actual print!! I had to blow up some of the photos submitted, to fit the calender page. So some may come out with a snow appearance?? I can't say for sure, well except for one I know for sure will, but it looks cool on my end! LOL

Just a suggestion for next year. Try to take your pics with a digital camera, borrow one if you have to. Also make sure you take them in the biggest format your camera will set at! My Canon takes them as large as 3072x2304. It is easier to shrink a photo then it is to blow one up!

For this calender project I was having to blow pics up to at least 2000 to have them fit on the page right. Not all, but some!

I hope you all will like the printed version!! Hopefully it will be available by Monday!!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Blu,, yep that pretty much gave it away didn't it!! LOL  If you sent more then one pic, I pic the best I feel for the calender!

Joe, the images on the forum don't do me any good. They are usually not full size images. Send "one" of your favorites to my email in my profile!!

Fred, I don't think your going to make the cut for this calender!! Sorry! I am up to 11 pics, and I'm thinking if Joe sends me a pic of his yellow wagon (since he did submit it to the forum) it would be the best choice for the calender!


On a side note, I just want to make this a clear as possible. Some of you that submitted photos to this thread, will not see your pics in the calender. I asked in this thread for those who submitted a photo, to send the photo to my email in my profile. Those that did, made the calender, and only the first 12. I did it this way because of the short amount of time to get the calender done and in production! (dont' know how long it take cafe press to make these and send them out) So I am sorry if you submitted to the thread but didn't make it. I hope you all understand!! This may have not been the most fair way to do it, but it was the fastest, easiest way, for me to take on the project!!

Thanks
Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

Fred Morgan

Kim you need to put my 73 in there so it will make all the others look real good.  Fred   ;D ;D
Fred Morgan- Missing from us...
January 20th 1951-January 6th 2014

Beloved PCCA Parts Supplier and Friend to many.
Post your well wishes,
http://www.fordpinto.com/in-memory-of-our-fallen-pinto-heros/fred-morgan-23434/

redmustangman3

Hi Kim: I submitted pictures of the 74 yellow wagon on July 19,2009- see message #32. I have hi-def photos if you need them. Let me know. Regards, Joe in Morgan Hill, CA


Quote from: pintogirl on November 06, 2009, 11:19:20 PM
I need one more Pinto!!!! Someone that hasn't submitted one yet, please send me a pic!!!!! We need a green pinto!! LOL I think they are all red white and blue, with one orange! LOL

Anybody have a green Pinto, that hasn't submitted a pic yet?? Or even Yellow!!  Joe, where's your new Yellow wagon??? Send me a pic!!  ;D


OOPS, Edit!!! I forgot about Carolina Boy's pic he posted on the Fab Ford Calender Question thread. I need to see if he is going to send me an original!! If he does, I will have my 12 pics!!


I will let you know as soon as CB gets back to me!!
1971- 289 V8; B&M C4; 9" with 4:11 posi. Several suspension upgrades and body modifications.
1974- 2.3L wagon,4-spd,totally stock. Medium lime yellow, avacado interior, 99k miles.
1972- 1984 Mustang SVO turbo; 5-speed tremec; 9" rear w/positraction; fiberglass front & doors; upgraded suspension.

dave1987

The two black and white photos I submitted, I have original 35mm negatives to. I took them with my Canon 35mm SLR camera. The other photos I took with a point and shoot digital camera and those are the highest resolution photos I have of the car. I can dig through my 35mm photos and see what else I have, perhaps I have something else decent for submission if none of those seem appealing enough for the calender. :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Kimmy, I'm guessing Green Meanie didn't make the cut! lol. Oh well, there's 2011!  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

I need one more Pinto!!!! Someone that hasn't submitted one yet, please send me a pic!!!!! We need a green pinto!! LOL I think they are all red white and blue, with one orange! LOL

Anybody have a green Pinto, that hasn't submitted a pic yet?? Or even Yellow!!  Joe, where's your new Yellow wagon??? Send me a pic!!  ;D


OOPS, Edit!!! I forgot about Carolina Boy's pic he posted on the Fab Ford Calender Question thread. I need to see if he is going to send me an original!! If he does, I will have my 12 pics!!


I will let you know as soon as CB gets back to me!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

71pintoracer

Quote from: smallfryefarm on November 04, 2009, 07:34:16 AM
kim if you dont get enough use one of 71pintoracers pics his car is beautiful and does the pinto community proud.
Awww..shucks :embarrassed:! Thanks, but mine was in last years, there are a lot of great looking Pintos out there, I would like to give others a chance. :)
Maybe I should get off my  :showback: and get to work on the cruiser, maybe send it in next year! :lol:
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

pintogirl

Ok, guy's, looks like I have 12 pics! I will see how they all work out and let you all know how it goes in the next week. I am kinda waiting on 2 pics to see if we can get bigger ones or better ones. Once that is ironed out I can finish it all up! It's already half way there! LOL I have been putting the pics on the months as I get them! I decided not to draw the pintos out of a hat! Instead I kinda put them via the color or weather in the back ground!

I'll let you all know when it is done!!!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: dave1987 on November 06, 2009, 09:48:39 PM
Sent my photos to your comcast address! Lemme know if you get them or not. :)

I got them and sent a reply!  If Reed took those pics, maybe he will still have the originals!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

dave1987

Sent my photos to your comcast address! Lemme know if you get them or not. :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

larjohnson

Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

smallfryefarm

larry go to her profile get her email address and send them that way dont shrink them send them full size from the camera
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

larjohnson

Kim: Here's a couple of pictures of my 1971 Pinto I bought off the Fordpinto.com classifies from Reed in Washington State.  Just finished her restoration a few weeks ago, was hoping you may consider it for the calendar.  If you need larger pictures let me know...I think I can accomplish that with my limited knowledge of computers. I'm sending you two of my favorite pictures, I thought if you were interested, you could pick the one you like best.  BTW, these same pictures are posted on my Member Galleries under larjohnson, if that'd help.   thanks.....have a great day...Larry :police:
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

pintogirl

Quote from: dave1987 on November 06, 2009, 12:32:07 AM
Here are the ones from my photo shoot this year.


If you think it's worth emailing full size photos of, let me know.


You need to send me the one picture you like best. Send it to my email found in my profile. It needs to be original size, don't shrink it down!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

electrabishi

Quote from: dave1987 on November 06, 2009, 12:32:07 AM
Here are the ones from my photo shoot this year.


If you think it's worth emailing full size photos of, let me know.

I think one of the first two are best. What is that a '78 or so?

Very Nice!

Mike

dave1987

Here are the ones from my photo shoot this year.


If you think it's worth emailing full size photos of, let me know.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Think mine is worthy enough for submission?

Here's a couple out dated ones )the first two), and a few from the photo shoot I did this summer at the original dealership lot.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

Quote from: pintoman1 on November 05, 2009, 06:42:52 PM
Hi pintogirl I resent them hopefully you got them tis time!

thanks  pintoman1

Yep, got them this time!!!

Also got yours Mark!

Thanks!!
Kim
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

pintogirl

Quote from: popbumper on November 05, 2009, 04:25:51 PM
Are you looking for "perfect" cars? I have a shot of mine when I first bought it, it actually looked pretty decent (which is why I bought it). If you need a pic, I have one, let me know, I can send it to you tonite.

Chris

Go ahead and send it to me!! The cars don't have to be perfect, just a PInto!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

PintoMan1

Hi pintogirl I resent them hopefully you got them tis time!

thanks  pintoman1
1973 pinto runabout

popbumper

Are you looking for "perfect" cars? I have a shot of mine when I first bought it, it actually looked pretty decent (which is why I bought it). If you need a pic, I have one, let me know, I can send it to you tonite.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

pintogirl

Ok guy's, once I get Pintoman1, and 78squirewagon's pics, I will only need 4 more pics! Those of you that put a pic in this thread, but havn't sent it to me yet, please do so ASAP!!

;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

FCANON

Uh THose aren't my words guys.... And Scott had no need/reason to apologize for me.
But I will like to thank Kim for taking the project on.
Frank
PCCA 241


Guys-

I recieved a PM from Frank- the 2010 calendars will not be created as I'm sure you have already surmized. There is not time & other factors to get them done this year.

Stay tuned for next- I'm apologizing for Frank...
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

pintogirl

Quote from: pintoman1 on November 04, 2009, 08:49:23 PM
Hi, e-mail sent. I would also be honored to have my car as part of the calender.
                        Thank you,   pintoman1

I haven't received yours yet either! Maybe my email is just being slow, or are you guy's making sure you send it to my, Pintogirls) email? My address is in my profile!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

smallfryefarm

come on fellers with all the good looking pintos on this site it should be easy to fill it up.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

PintoMan1

Hi, e-mail sent. I would also be honored to have my car as part of the calender.
                        Thank you,   pintoman1
1973 pinto runabout

pintogirl

Quote from: 78squirewagon on November 04, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
E-mail sent. I would be honored to have my wagon as a month.

I haven't recieved your email yet! But when I do, that will make 7 months taken care of!! Need 5 more pics!!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA