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1980 Ford Pinto For Sale

Date: 07/01/2018 03:21 pm
1973 Pinto Pangra

Date: 07/08/2019 10:09 pm
1979 pinto
Date: 04/19/2018 02:02 am
Wanted early pinto
Date: 10/03/2019 02:42 pm
73 rear hatchback glass
Date: 07/06/2017 11:33 am
Mint Original Black Rear Seat $275.00

Date: 07/30/2020 11:45 am
Built and Injected early 2000cc Engine

Date: 04/10/2017 07:30 pm
'80 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/01/2018 05:20 pm
76 station wagon parts needed.
Date: 03/14/2020 01:52 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Mustang II to Pinto shifter conversion & Modification

Started by dave1987, January 07, 2009, 12:47:51 PM

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Drexx

1980 Pinto Runabout

dave1987

That would be great! I think it would be better to have all the shifter mod info in one thread rather than several threads which future visitors would have to search all over for. I'm looking forward to your additions!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Carolina Boy

 Just found this topic and I must say, It was well written with a lot of detail. :amazed: I will use this on my new Pinto's sloppy shifter.
If it would be alright with you, may I incorporate it into the mods I am planning to do to my shifter to make it a short throw Hurst clone w/ t-handle?  ???
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

dave1987

Thanks Doug! Anything I can do to help out with existing or future questions. Never know when in depth info might be wanted!

I seem to find myself scouring the net and the Pinto forums for info about odd ball things all the time. Info is there, but it's scattered or missing bits and pieces, so I try to include as much info as possible when doing my guides.

Hopefully I can get a good picture guide up of windshield gasket replacement, as well as wiper posts and vent ducts this spring when I pull my car apart. Stay tuned! ;D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

douglasskemp

Holy smokes! 1-up for you, for this in depth coverage!
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

dave1987

I hope that this information may come of use to some members. If not for a conversion, then at least the pictures might be used for reference with another project. I have found that detailed information about Pinto parts and their similar counterparts can be very useful when completing a repair or modification. I hope that this guide/thread can aid other in such an event.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

In the photo below, the Pinto shaft has been fitted with the Mustang II's reverse lockout mechanism. To use the Mustang II reverse lockout, the Mustang II's upper and lower slide washers will be needed, as well as the spring (of coarse) and the spring cap. The Pinto's retaining ring can be used in place of the Mustang II's base plate, and everything can be held into place by the Pinto's C-Clip.

Upon reassembly, you can use either the stock Pinto head shaft or you can use the Mustang II's angled head shaft. I am currently using the Mustang II's angled shaft on my 78 Sedan without any issues.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

The plastic "shifter ball guide" on the Mustang II shifter is used to center the ball at the base of the main shaft and keep it from moving around (because the hole the shifter is dropped into is larger than the ball) once the shifter is installed.

The way the reverse lockout parts are held into place on the Mustang II shifter is, instead of a c-clip like the Pinto, they compressed the spring and squeezed the steel shaft just above the spring cap (pictured below). This created a flare on the side of the shaft, which would help to hold everything into place. They did this on either side of the shaft for equal pressure on the spring, as well as to ensure parts would not slide past the pinch. To remove the components of the main shaft, these pinches must be cut off. The final photo shows where the shaft had to be cut in order to slide the shifter parts past the pinch.

Photo 1) Ball guide installed in the base plate.
Photo 2) Ball guide removed from the base plate.
Photo 3) Exploded view of reverse lockout mechanism.
Photo 4) Main shaft notched for dis assembly.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Now a breakdown of the Mustang II shifter.

Photo 1) Shifter without head shaft but main shaft still assembled.
Photo 2) Main shaft (top) and head shaft (bottom) stripped. Friction sleeve for head shaft shown extracted.
Photo 3) The build for the reverse lockout mechanism and base plate.
Photo 4) Base plate with shifter ball guide in place.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Here is a breakdown of the Pinto shifter.

Photo 1) The shifter without the head shaft, but main shaft still assembled.
Photo 2) The main shaft (top) and head shaft (bottom) stripped.
Photo 3) The build for the reverse lock out mechanism and retaining ring at base.
Photo 4) Exploded view of reverse lock out mechanism and retaining ring at base.

All of the components for the reverse lock out mechanism are held into place with a C-clip around the raised portion on the main shaft.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Now, if you are still with me, let's get to the photos, which better describe things.

Let's start with difference between the two shifters which affects daily driving, the angle of the head shaft.

I find that using this shaft is more comfortable to use. It does require more forward and backward movement of your arm, but it requires less effort to engage each gear.



Mustang II on top, Pinto on bottom.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Here is a collection of pictures and short descriptions of what I did to adapt a Pinto 4spd shifter to work with the Mustang II reverse lockout mechanism and angled shaft.

The Pinto's stock 4spd transmission uses a drop in shifter that is screwed into place by means of a threaded ring, and press down retention tabs used to keep it from working it's way back out from vibration. It's reverse lockout mechanism is a rubber diaphragm like spring that pushes the shifter up, giving back pressure when screwing it into the transmission tail shaft. To shift into reverse, you press down on the shifter and to the upper left. The problem with this design is that the rubber diaphragm spring deteriorates over time, and the reverse lockout becomes non-functional, making it possible to accidentally shift into reverse while aiming for first gear.

The Mustang II's stock 4spd transmission uses a drop in shifter nearly identical to the Pinto's, however it is bolted to the transmission by means of three metric bolts. It is not only more secure, but also much easier to remove. It's reverse lockout mechanism is much more reliable as it ages, as it does not use any rubber as the Pinto one does. Instead it uses a steel spring which acts the same way as the Pinto's does, putting back pressure against the shifter as it is installed, making you have to push down on the shifter to shift into reverse.


At first glance of the shifters, it may not appear possible to disassemble one of these shifters, as the black head shaft is secured to the main body of the shifter by a sleeve inside the larger portion of the head shaft, which has a diameter just a millimeter smaller than the main body's shaft and is pressed into place. The sleeve inside the head shaft is encased in rubber and then secured inside the head shaft. Technically, the only way to remove this head shaft would be to tap along the base of the head shaft's sleeve with a drift and slowly work it off of the main body. However, I have found that it usually has a weak spot that it will twist off given enough force. While removing my mustang II's angled head shaft, the sleeve separated from the rubber it is encased in, but this does not mean it has been destroyed. JB Weld can be used to secure it during reassembly.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!