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Trailer Hitch - 73 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/04/2018 08:26 am
Wheel cap
Date: 04/25/2022 11:21 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
1976 (non hatchback) pinto (90% complete project)

Date: 07/10/2016 10:17 am
oldskool787
Date: 02/12/2017 12:42 pm
72 Pinto parts
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13x6 minilite style wheels MAKE OFFER——NEED GONE

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Built 2.0
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Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
Date: 12/09/2018 11:35 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Anyone here pulled a windshield by themselves?

Started by popbumper, September 24, 2008, 08:58:24 PM

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popbumper

Thanks for the insights!! Good thing that I do not need to save the gasket (cracking and brittle anyway), but I'll be sure that it all is "loose" before I try to seperate the glass from the gasket. What fun!! Good luck to you guys - wish I had anotehr Pinto fan around here to work with!!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

pintoman2.0

Hey popbumper,

I am the other guy who worked with Reed last weekend. I have tried many times to take it out and save the rubber too. ABSOLUTELY not possible.

What Reed didn't tell you was that we were not successful this time either. I guess I will take the blame because I did not take the time to cut all the gasket completely to the edge of the glass. I think there was enough in front of it, plus I didn't loosen the glass from the adheasive in the groove. that when he pushed on it he broke it. Be sure and plan for it to take a lot of time, PATIENCE! Taking out the side windows and hatch glass is easier to do and save the gasket because teh tempered glas takes more pressure before it breaks.

Hey, wish me luck because if I can get apintnut, Reed and a couple other guys to come to my place next weekend we can try to get mine out without breaking it.

P

71pintoracer

Putting it in is easier than taking it out!
1. place it face down on a table covered with a piece of carpet or towels.
2. put the new rubber gasket on
3. using a piece of 1/8" nylon rope, start at the middle of the top and put it in the groove all the way around. Overlap at the top about 6" each way and tape the ends to the inside.
4. lube the gasket really well with silicone spray or WD40.
5. set the w/s in place, from the inside pull the rope and the lip of the gasket will go in place. you need to lightly press on the outside of the glass as you go around.
6. once you have pulled the rope all the way out, smack the outside of the glass with your hand, flat against the glass all the way around to seat the glass.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

CHEAPRACER

Quote from: 71HANTO on September 26, 2008, 11:49:59 AM
You can.....but only ONCE.... ::)

This maybe the first time a Pinto caught fire from the front  :surprised:
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

71HANTO

"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

dave1957

when I pulled the glue in from my 79 I used a carpet knife and soaked the perimeter of the windsheild with gasoline  worked great..dont smoke while doing this   
1979 bobcat
1974 red stinkbug
1979 orange pinto sedan aka project turbo hack
1979 orange pinto all glass hatch 52k

Reed

Popbumper:

3800 Bridgeport Way, Suite A, #23
University Place, WA 98466

Minimum donation is $20, but larger amounts are encouraged.   ;D

Seriously though, it really is very easy if you are already going to replace the gasket.  Now, installing the window is another matter...
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

So I ended up picking up these "high falutin" windshield removal tools - one is this long machete-looking knife. Note to self: NEVER make enemies with a glass guy  ::). The girl told me she had misquoted me on price, but since the transaction was over, don't worry about it.

I talked to the windshield guy (who was not there earlier). He told me it was pretty straightforward, get inside and push it out, peel the gasket back from the inside, etc. He told me if I did nnot use the tools to bring them back and get a refund - I'm guessing he knows what he is talking about.

Basically, he told me what ALL you guys have told me.

Your inputs are greatly appreciated - that's what this group is about.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

phils toys

Popbumper,
Cut the  gasket  from the out side  make sure it is clear from the edge of the windshield.
Gently   from the in side  push the window out ward  ( i  sat on the floor and used my feet to  push  ) once it  started to move   you    go out side the car and can lift it out the rest of the way.
The winshield is  awkward but not extremely heavy. 
From there  you just pull the rest of the seal out . It was the easyest winshield i have removed. taking you time it should  take no more than an hour  Proably  alot less  sense you have the  trim removed .
Phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Wittsend

I had a neighbor who owned a junkyard.  I bought a windshield from him once.  The "office girl" got it out. They used a guitar string to go around the edge of the windshield once the outer rubber was cut away.   This works well on "glue in " windshields.  I helped a guy take one out of a Pinto at Pick A Part a month or so ago.  He just cut the outer rubber and we gently pushed it out.

I don't know what a new seal cost (I guess about $80-$100), but the guy I helped paid $15 for the windshield because P-A-P was having a 50% off sale.

Tom

popbumper

Sure, but Reed, like I said, I like to spend money..... :hypno: If I can help finance your project in any way, please tell me where to send the signed check.... :cheesy_n:

Yah, I figured it could be done cheaply, but I got >chicken<. Glad you guys managed it easily. With these tools, heck, I just may become a windshield removal expert :lost:.

Who's next.....?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Reed

We cut the rubber gasket with a $5 x-acto knife.  Just take your time and trim the rubber on the outside of the window back far enough to expose the edge of the windshield all the way around.  Once that is done, gently and carefully work the glass off the inner rubber.  It will just fold forward.  Be sure to not drop it or better yet work with a helper.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

popbumper

Well, wish me luck, I guess I love to spend money, but not >that< much  :lol:. I just went by the glass place, and here were my two options:

1) How much for THEM to remove my windshield? $175  :mad:
2) How much for the TOOLS to remove it (long and hooked knives)? $55 total  ;D

I chose option #2.

For them to reinstall (my glass, my new seal) - $125.

BTW, for grins, I priced a NEW windshield - $263. Cross the fingers that this one does not get cracked!

Chris

...such an adventure....
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

dick1172762

If your going to replace the seal, then by all means, cut the seal lip on the inside of the car. After you do that, you can just lift the windshield out of the car. Other wise you stand a good chance of cracking it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Reed

I just did this with Apintonut and another Pinto fan last weekend.  The easiest way to do this is to trim the rubber away from the outside edge of the window so the entire windshield is exposed.  Then gently press the inside of the gloass away from the remaining weatherstrip.  Start at one upper corner and gently work your way across to the other side.  The key is to make sure you trim the rubber all the way back on the glass.  It will crack VERY easily.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

75bobcatv6

you and take a piece of gauged wire (like a thin cable used to secure things) and work it into the seal through it then use it like a saw. it wont be easy to do it this way on your own but it is effective and saves the glass. Ihad to do this with rear glass on my old nissan. make sure the cable has some kind of handle if you do it this way so you dont get hurt

popbumper

It's getting close to that time. I am doing the brakes this weekend (enough of being crippled by it - I am taking Friday off of work to get some stuff done), and then I move up to the windshield, so I can get at the rust. Here's what I do know/don't know:

1) DO KNOW - all the trim clips and rubber clips have been removed
2) DO KNOW - the windshield rubber is very dry and cracking - it needs replaced

3) DON'T KNOW - what's the best way to remove it? Cut the upper surface of rubber away and press out from the inside?
4) DON'T KNOW - Are there any SPECIAL TOOLS I should use?
5) DON'T KNOW - what's the best approach to get under the rubber to cut it away?

I did a search on windshield removal, and only got three hits that were not hellpful. I can "hire" an auto glass outfit to do it if you think that is best. Anyone? THANKS!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08