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Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
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1971 2 lt Cam
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1979 Pinto Sedan Delivery

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1976-1979 FORD PINTO BOBCAT FRONT HOOD TRIM MOLDING D4FZ-16856-A OEM EXCELLENT

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1974 points distributor for 2.3l
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1978 RUNABOUT

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hubcaps

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Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
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Various Pinto Parts 1971 - 1973

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1974 pinto coupe weird starting issues

Started by Jon Britton, March 12, 2016, 07:22:19 PM

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Jon Britton

Ok bought a new fusible link for the relay. Old one was definitely fried, haven't installed it yet. Bought a new key cylinder instead of adjusting old one. And looking at fuse block I found severe corrosion etc. So I'm replacing it with an updated blade fuse block. Will post more as it comes along.

russosborne

I just checked, there is an adjustment that can be made on the actuator rod that goes from the key switch to the ignition switch. That could be needed to be done. I tried to print and the scan the instructions, but I have no clue where this thing put the scans.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

It's very possible, he had that thing redneck special. Which as soon as this thing gets running will be more undoing of his rigging on various other areas of the car lol.

Jon Britton

I'll definitely check this out asap tomorrow, and yeah the s lug wire is 16ga with voltage both with wire and without. Both times key in at start or out of switch didn't matter. Thanks for the info on the manual too. Hope things look better for you soon. I'll be posting soon of my findings.

russosborne

I can't make out on the diagram you posted what that wire is going to, more because of my bad eyes than anything else. Have no clue what or where my diagram got to. I've pretty much rewired my own way the car I have, so the diagram at this point is useless for my car.

But remember, if it is blown it did it for a reason. So don't replace it with regular wire, and try to figure out why it blew first. Probably one of the hacks the PO did caused it though.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Quote from: Jon Britton on April 04, 2016, 10:08:12 PM
I think I may see a problem, the yellow wire that powers the ignition switch has a fusible link right where it connects to battery side of starter relay. It looks blown, could this possibly be a factor?

It certainly won't help things. You can do a continuity check on it to verify if it is bad. If you have nice pointy probes on your meter, or just trace it out to a start and end point. That could be why the PO had the push start and stuff on it. But try to find it on your diagram and see what circuit it is supposed to protect. Might be for something else?

This would be so much easier in person. I know it must be frustrating for you to try to follow all my crazy instructions.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Ok, that is not good. The S lug (small one next to the I, 16 or so gauge wire, correct?) should only have voltage with both the wire connected AND the key in the Start position. Is the voltage on it without the wired being connected there, or only with the wire connected, or both? If it is there without being connected then the solenoid is bad somehow. Internal short most likely. If only when the wire is connected there is a wiring problem somewhere in that circuit. This also could be the key switch being bad, where it still makes contact to the Start circuit. In fact that is where I would recommend you try next. Try to trace out the wiring with that diagram and see if the S position on the key switch is on all the time. You should be able to check it at the ignition switch you just changed out. Use your old one to find the wire locations, might help make it easier. ??? At least it is not under the dash.

Do you still have the old solenoid? If so, do those tests with it installed and see if you get the same results.

"So checked the starter side of relay, I get 12v with key in start. I also get 12v with key not in ignition at all." and also "With the starter cable disconnected the starter cable lug has no volts with key in start and off." This last is strange. You should have the 12VDC on the starter side of the relay regardless of if the starter cable is connected or not.

Maybe like I said above it is the keyed switch in the column. that would explain most all of this stuff. I thought there was an adjustment on these, but I am not seeing it in the manual.
But then this is not being my best week.

Russ

Do you have the factory service manual for this car? Here is one place to get it if you don't. A Haynes or Chilton's won't really cut it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Shop-Service-Repair-Manual-CD-OEM-Mechanic-Guide-/130741225454?fits=Year%3A1974|Make%3AFord|Model%3APinto&hash=item1e70c8c7ee:g:Yz4AAOSwB4NWvA MD&vxp=mtr
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

I think I may see a problem, the yellow wire that powers the ignition switch has a fusible link right where it connects to battery side of starter relay. It looks blown, could this possibly be a factor?

Jon Britton

S lug has volts however, both key in start and key off.

Jon Britton

With the starter cable disconnected the starter cable lug has no volts with key in start and off. With the I wire disconnected, it still has zero volts in both positions and with S wire disconnected it does as well.
Ground is clean and has a braided ground from block to chasis.
The only thing that sticks out to me is that with no starter cable connected there is no voltage on the lug for reason. Hooked up and the voltage comes back with key in start and with key not in cylinder.

russosborne

I think you may have misunderstood me, which is common. Just ask my wife.  ;D

I meant to remove those wires, and check the starter cable post with the key on and off.

So let me try it this way.

1. Disconnect starter cable from solenoid. All other wires still connected.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key on? Should be 12VDC.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key off? Should be 0VDC.

2. With the starter cable still off, remove all the wires from the I connector.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key on? Should be 0VDC.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key off? Should be 0VDC.

3. With the starter cable and the I connector wires still off, remove the wire from the S connector.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key on? Should be 0VDC.
Does the starter cable lug have 12VDC with the key off? Should be 0VDC.

4. With everything above still disconnected,
Does the I lug have 12VDC with the key on? Should be 0VDC.
Does the I lug have 12VDC with the key off? Should be 0VDC.

5. With everything above still disconnected,
Does the S lug have 12VDC with the key on? Should be 0VDC.
Does the S lug have 12VDC with the key off? Should be 0VDC.

Let me know what the results are. Should only take a few minutes, took longer to type than it will to test.

Oh, you probably already did this, but make sure the mounting bracket (part of the solenoid) has a good clean connection to the body. That is the ground for all of this, and if it doesn't have a good ground all sorts of weird things can happen. And you said this was an engine swap, so make sure that there is at least one ground cable (braided or whatever) going from the engine block to the body/subframe. I run another starter type battery cable from the point on the block where the battery negative goes to somewhere on the subframe, wherever there is a convenient hold for a nut/bolt. But one of those braided wire ground cables is fine. I just like overkill.  8)

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

Without the starter wire the I post also gets no volts. However the s post gets 12 v.

Jon Britton

Sorry to hear about the job, we'll disconnected the starter and don't have any volts.

russosborne

Well, I will be online more than I had thought from now on. Lost the job. Oh, well.
Maybe we can get this car fixed sooner.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

Ok, I'll continue on it tomorrow and post the findings for when you're able to get back on.

russosborne

I was more concerned if you had one or not. Hard to do with one, almost impossible without.

If you disconnect the starter cable, do you still have 12V on that connector on the solenoid all the time, or only when you have the key in the ON position? Same question but with first the S wire removed, and then with the I wires removed? And then with both S and I removed? I'm trying to find a way to narrow down where you have to look for problems in the harness.

You said the thing was a bit hacked up. Are you sure all the hacks are undone? I am not familiar enough with the seatbelt interlock, as I just totally removed that from mine. I wouldn't think that bypassing it could cause what you are seeing. But???

And fyi, I probably won't be online after tonight until Friday. So if I don't respond don't think I have abandoned you.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

I may have to email it if you want. It's a pdf file so I had to screen shot it. Kinda fuzzy though

Jon Britton


Jon Britton

Ok, so it won't let me post images now. Anyone now how, maybe I missed something. On an Android phone.

Jon Britton

I have one someone off here gave me, but it doesn't include the interlock system. I'll see if I can post it

russosborne

OK, darn it. That would have been too simple.

As far as the test you did with the meter, did you check the meter by touching the two leads together and the reading went to zero more or less? If so, then the solenoid is good from that stand point.

So we are back to there being something wrong with the wiring harness. Could possibly be the starter, but not likely given your symptoms.

Do you have the wiring diagrams for this?  I do have a laminated wiring diagram I got off of Ebay, but don't know where it is at the moment. I'll try to find it.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

Yeah that's my handy work. No the cable is blocking the view, two separate wires, both going into the harness that is just behind the relay.

russosborne

The wiring looks good, did you do that?

Anyway, I see a possible issue if I am seeing it right. It looks like the blue wire from the S terminal is looped to the I terminal. Am I seeing it right? The one cable is blocking part of the view so I am not positive.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

O, and the other small wire right side, goes to the ignition coil.

Jon Britton

. The starter is the old ford style no solenoid. I disconnected all the wires and cables and checked it on ohms and well, got nothing, meter never changed. I even checked the meter to be sure. So if I'm understanding correctly, does this mean the relay is bad? As far a wiring goes, the starter is wired to the right side post, positive battery is wired to other post which is closest to it. Start wire is on left front small post and run and accessories wire is on right small post. Yellow continuous power wire is also on left side big post with positive battery cable. I did notice though that the yellow wire connection looks like a melted fusible link rubber end.

russosborne

Follow up question since I don't know this.

You said the engine is from an 84 Ranger. What style starter does it have? What I mean is does it look like the old Ford style, or a Chevy with a solenoid attached to the starter itself?

The reason I am asking is the two types are wired completely different. The original Pinto starter ( and hence all the wiring) is for the old Ford style.

I think the 84 should still be the original style, but it could have been changed by a PO (previous owner).

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

hmmm. That last thing you posted is saying there is A) something causing the solenoid to be turned on all the time, or B) the solenoid itself is shorted.

You said you replaced it already, correct? Doesn't mean the new one isn't bad though.

Disconnect all the wires and cables from it, remembering to mark them or take a picture so you know where they go back. Using the ohms function of the meter measure from the battery post side of the solenoid to the starter side. Should be an open, infinite resistance. If it is then the solenoid itself isn't shorted. If you get something in the mega ohms range, same thing. If it reads a few or less ohms there is a short (it is stuck in the on position or an internal short). Whatever it reads let us know. If you don't know how to do this just ask.

Not knowing what you know about this stuff, here is some info.
The solenoid is just a relay.There are two types. Normally open and Normally closed. That means when no power is applied a normally open relay is open, and the normally closed is closed. When power is applied the normally open becomes closed (completing the circuit) and the normally closed becomes open (the circuit no longer will conduct). The hot (battery) side is normally not connected to the starter side. But when you put the key in the start  position, the wire going to the little connector causes the relay to be turned on, causing the hot and starter sides to be connected.

Would it be possible for you to take and post a picture of the relay/solenoid showing the wiring, including the cables? That would be a big help to make sure it isn't something simple like a wire in the wrong place.

Again, I am assuming you know nothing about this stuff.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Jon Britton

So checked the starter side of relay, I get 12v with key in start. I also get 12v with key not in ignition at all.

Jon Britton

I'm glad you like electrical lol. I do have aa dvm and a test light, will have to check that next. What I do know about the car is:

Not the original engine, this one comes from an 84 ranger 2.3

Wiring is original however, even the seatbelt interlock sytem.
As well as the rest of the car including the front tires lol.
Someone had attempted to install equis gauges, badly I might add.
And they had also rig some sort of push and toggle system to start the car. All of this was one giant rats nest of wires and naked splices.
The interlock system has both relays still but has been bypassed at the reset switch. The ignition switch is new, but the key cylinder is not.
Buzzer works, dome light works and now all exterior lights work. You can jump the starter relay and it will start but I fried the last one I did that too. And I have run a wire from the starter relay to a button with the constant power (yellow) wire, and it would start just wouldn't turn off.
So far that's all I know....

russosborne

Well, I l like doing electrical. But I am weird.
I'm an electronic tech by trade. Car electrical is close enough. Most of what I used to work on has 12VDC as a power source.

Do you happen to have a DVM (digital volt meter) or at least a decent 12V test light? If so, check the connection at the starter relay that goes to the starter when you have the key turned to start. If you have 12V ( or the light lights) then you have an open in between there and the starter, or even a bad starter. Or possibly not enought current even though there is the 12V there.  If no 12V there, remove the starter cable from there and try again. If you now have 12V (or the light lights up) there is most likely a short in the starter or the cable going to it. If no 12V with the starter cable disconnected, then the problem is in the starter relay or the wiring going to it. That could be all the way back to the ignition switch.

There is a fuseable link in the ignition circuit. That is a wire of a smaller gauge that is intended to burn up to prevent a fire in the case of an extreme short. I don't remember if it is part of the starter circuit or not. But something else to look into. If it has burned, the insulation will be bubbled. These are a short (4 or 6 inch) piece that is in the wiring. There are a few, for different circuits. This is more of an fyi in case you haven't come across that stuff before.

Is this car pretty much stock, like factory alternator, gauges, etc? If not, that could be another avenue to pursue. I wasn't thinking non stock from your first post, but there are things that can be done wrong that makes the car run after the ignition switch is turned off from a feedback thru the alternator. If it is stock ignore all this.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.