Mini Classifieds

EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm
1979 Ford Pinto for Sale - price reduction

Date: 01/23/2023 02:22 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
ENGINE COMPLETE 1971 PINTO
Date: 12/28/2017 03:55 pm
1971-1975 Pinto
Date: 01/09/2017 04:14 pm
75 wagon need parts
Date: 05/28/2020 05:19 pm
pinto parts for sale
Date: 07/25/2018 04:51 pm
pro stock front end
Date: 06/28/2019 07:43 pm
1977 Pinto Cruizin Wagon

Date: 08/07/2023 02:52 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 645
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 625
  • Total: 625
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1971 Road Race Pinto....

Started by falconwagon62, November 13, 2013, 09:50:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sir Thomas Crapper

All you road racers looking for pads, Carbotech will custom build pads for you.  Just need to send them backing plates.

ask for Mike Jr.

We ran our Squire wagon in a 14 1/2 hour lemons race at CMP last weekend, and didn't use half our pad.  Rotors look great, too.

falconwagon62

Race footage racing Tommy boy in my old 66 Fastback.....

www.ovcfca.com
www.falconclub.com

falconwagon62

Went drag racing last weekend after I got home from the ALL FORD swap in Columbus...at Thornhill America's OLDEST operating Drag Strip.......th en Tommy Boy, my stepson gave me some new wheels and tires....16" off a foxbody stang he bought.....








www.ovcfca.com
www.falconclub.com

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dick1172762 on December 01, 2013, 11:09:56 PM
You have to take it apart. It fits in side the carrier. No way to put it in through the axel holes. I send you a picture.
I got the pic thanks, well I've never put one in the one I have was in my truck when I bought it, but according to them it's a simple deal and don't have to take it all apart???, but like I said I never put one in myself..

http://www.powertrax.com/index.php/products/lock-right
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dick1172762

You have to take it apart. It fits in side the carrier. No way to put it in through the axel holes. I send you a picture.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: dick1172762 on December 01, 2013, 10:02:04 AM
They have one for the 8" rear end. I couldn't find a price for them. I've always used Detroit Lockers in the past. This looks like a copy of the Detroit locker, which are un breakable.
They're around $400 or so, they're the same principal just different and you don't need to take it all apart to put it in and they are adjustable with springs.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dick1172762

A rear bar will make the rear hang out in the turns, but I like one to drive like that. Better than a push. I've always used a rear bar on my Pinto race cars. What you need to do is put a plate on both sides of the floor boards where the bar hooks to the floor. My 72 was ok, but the 80 cracked on both sides. Other than that, I would use it since you already have it. Put the battery in the back too. Ever little thing helps. Lite flywheel will make a big difference. Send me something on the KYB's.(rdelliott2@cox.net).~~~Dick
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

They have one for the 8" rear end. I couldn't find a price for them. I've always used Detroit Lockers in the past. This looks like a copy of the Detroit locker, which are un breakable.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

74 PintoWagon

I did that weld up thing many moons ago, man talk about tear up tires on the street, lol. Could use one of these, I got one in my pickup(came with it)seems to work pretty decent.
http://www.powertrax.com/index.php/products/powertrax-no-slip
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dick1172762

Just fine. I never broke one in 40 years and only went to a 8" because I needed a locker. If your want more bite, weld up the rear end but its really bad to drive on the street. What shocks are you using? I used Striders till they quit selling them. They were great for a street / racer Pinto. One inch front bar will help a lot.~~~Dick
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

Best I have found for the price is Pro Shocks from Speedway Motors. Mini stock boys really like them. Any thing else will cost more if its good on a racer. Wouldn't worry about the 8" rear end for now. Get the car down and go have fun. Be on the look out for a V-8 Mustang II in junk yards with a one inch front sway bar. Some had it / some did not. If your car has NO sway bar, all Pintos can be made to work, so GET ONE as a smaller one is better than none at all. Stock ones are close to 3/4". Get all the pieces including the links and the link mounts. Get polly bushings and replace all the rubber. Go for it!!!!~~~~Dick
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

falconwagon62

Quote from: dick1172762 on November 23, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
I would leave the roll bar out as you don't need it for autocross, it weights a lot, and the money could go for the stuff you really need(tires/shocks,etc). Keep us up to date.

Tires 15" in the rear, NEW and the front 14" also new....What Shocks would you use, I am blocking the rear down a bit and  cutting a 1/4 coil.....also thought of installing the 8" (I have 2) with a 411:1 rear gear.....I don't plan on killing HS class...just my Pit Crew....Misfit Hasbeens.....we are just going to have fun........NB Racing.....NO Budget......
www.ovcfca.com
www.falconclub.com

dick1172762

Thanks, but I retired from Bell Helicopter this month. Re send it to rdelliott2@cox.net as I'm now in the land of razorbacks (Fayetteville, Ar.). Don't ask about razorback football though.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: dick1172762 on November 23, 2013, 04:43:19 PM
When are you going to post a large clear picture, so we can copy to our pictures we save? ??? I've got the one of you loading the RACE car on the trailer, but even its not clear. PLEASE!!!! Or we will tell everyone you really race a Vega.
Ok . So I'm not a techie, So check your email, This site limits pics to 100kb and I'm just learning to adjust resolution. I used to drive a '80 Monza Spyder with 3.8L V6 Buick and 4speed. That's as close to a Vega as I ever drove! :P   BTW Video and Pics to your Email  at Bell
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

dick1172762

I would leave the roll bar out as you don't need it for autocross, it weights a lot, and the money could go for the stuff you really need(tires/shocks,etc). Keep us up to date.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

dick1172762

When are you going to post a large clear picture, so we can copy to our pictures we save???? I've got the one of you loading the RACE car on the trailer, but even its not clear. PLEASE!!!! Or we will tell everyone you really race a Vega.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: Srt on November 23, 2013, 04:09:58 AM
you guys PLEASE keep coming with the "corner chronicals".
you too Pintosopher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Driveway racing, a new form of low risk motorsports ;D
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Srt

you guys PLEASE keep coming with the "corner chronicals".
you too Pintosopher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

slooldracer

Arkansas is of course AR not AS, I should check my fingers as they type
The older I get, the faster I was

dick1172762

Quote from: slooldracer on November 22, 2013, 10:56:17 AM
The cage builder Izzy is still in business in St. Louis. does most of the midwest road racing cars. I ran Hallett a number of times  in past years, including a few Chumpcar events ( rentaride). I have been looking for the same type of brake pads you sold me, never could find them. Now I know why. Did you return to same city in As.
I moved about 6 miles south to Tontitown. Location is in my profile. BTW. I used the pads from NAPA on my IT car in the 80's with no problem at all.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Pintosopher

Quote from: falconwagon62 on November 13, 2013, 09:50:16 PM
Picking this up tomorrow with LOTS of extra goodies...may leave the 1.6L but also got a 2.3L - T5 with it......look out SCCA....
That is nice,  I'll be watching your posts for updates. We can always  use more "Birdcage" ( Walsh style)  Pintos that turn a corner well!  8)


Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

slooldracer

The cage builder Izzy is still in business in St. Louis. does most of the midwest road racing cars. I ran Hallett a number of times  in past years, including a few Chumpcar events ( rentaride). I have been looking for the same type of brake pads you sold me, never could find them. Now I know why. Did you return to same city in As.
The older I get, the faster I was

dick1172762

WOW!!! They quit making those in 2000 I was told. If you find some, buy them up and let me know, so I can get some. If you run vintage at Hallet in 2014, let me know and we'll try to come see you there. I'm back in Arkansas. Glad to see your still alive and kicking. What ever happen to your cage builder? I really enjoyed his pictures of cages he built. Learned a lot from him along the way. E-mail me when you get time. Mine is in my profile. Pintos forever!!!!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

slooldracer

Congrats on joining the small group of Road Racing Pinto owners. Both dick1172762 and I can advise you that your Pinto will be favorite of both fans, and other competitors alike. Pinto road racing cars,  ALWAYS draw a crowd. You will discover with very little work you will have a great handling, very reliable race car. My car is a 2
litre that I ran in SCCA, NASA,  now just vintage.

and for  dick 1172762, I am still using the same brake pads you sold me in 2004
The older I get, the faster I was

dick1172762

Keep us up to date on the mods to your Pinto. PLEASE!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

falconwagon62

Called Jegs today...going to order this next week....and build me a sports deck,and Install a stereo...I know...race cars don't have radios.....Mine will!! Also will make upgrades in the rear end...and install the disc brakes and a free flow exhaust system.......

  Jegster 942001K - Jegster ''Ford'' Roll Cage Kits     Jegster 942001K - Jegster ''Ford'' Roll Cage Kits
   
Jegster#550-942001K 4-Point Roll Cage Kit

       
  •        $155.99 Order Today Ships 11/21/13
   
[/list]
www.ovcfca.com
www.falconclub.com

dick1172762

The vintage Autolite decal on the window is worth 50 HP any day. Had those on my red 72 road race Pinto. Haven't seen any new ones in 40 years. If anyone reads this with some, please let me know. Really NICE car.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

falconwagon62

Arizona rust free 71, runs out good....need to pretty it up a bit...drive the wheels off of it....Drives great....
www.ovcfca.com
www.falconclub.com

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.