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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2.8 Temp Problem, NEED HELP!

Started by Pintopower, January 30, 2009, 01:44:43 PM

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78txpony

What type or brand of t-stats were you using?  Did you change them all with the same style / brand? 
At this point I would have put the old one back in to see what happens. 

Recon a piece of old gasket or something is stuck in the block somewhere?  A reverse flush with a garden hose could dislodge something like that. 

Yes, I would be just as PO'ed than you are by this point!  (or :drunk: instead...)
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

firepinto

I know on my dads old 2.8 Broncos, having the Tstat on the bottom of the block caused problems.  He would drill a small hole in the Tstat to keep the block from vapor locking.  When he filled it with coolant he would squeeze the top radiator hose to try and work the air out of the block.
'79 Pinto auto hatch back with an '80 2.3L and 4 speed transplant.  A 2.3 Turbo and T5 are waiting for the next transplant.

Plans changed, going V8 with TKX!

popbumper

Pintopower -

  Did you ever get this issue resolved, or are you after a 302 at this point?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

Pintopower

I'm at a loss. I gave up and brought the car to a great radiator shop that only deals in automotive cooling. It's been two weeks. They have no idea.

They did the following:

1. Coolant test to exhaust gasses.
2. Thermostat
3. Chemical flush
4. Radiator cleaning
5. 3 mixtures of coolant

Now, like starliner and phils toys have mentioned, I am picking her up and trying the water pump. Who knows at this point.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Starliner

I have seen Pontiac gig block water pumps where the clearances for the vanes was too large.   
Why not change the water pump for the heck of it. 
I always buy new instead of rebuilt. 
 
Also check the timing cover as you change the water pump for any issues.
Corrosion, blocked passages, The pump sits the correct depth, etc. 

Also check that your battery is charging properly and the belt is not loose.
Low battery voltage makes the gauge read low, slipping could effect the water pump. 
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

phils toys

I would lean toward a bad water pump  I just changed one on my 96 tauras with a 3.0L had similar problems no heat at idle and over  heating  unless the rpms were high . i changed the thermostat, flushed the heated core , and lived with it for almost 2 years not driving much in the cold or long distances. Changed the water  pump and  no  over heating  and i have heat in about 3 minutes.(around here as long as it takes to clear the  snow  off the car) and have taken  several  longer rides .
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Starliner

For oil, try Mobil 1 15W-50.    It can take the heat and the cool.   Also has enough ZDDP for the cam.

Did you try using Redline water wetter in the cooling system?

Is your heater core plumbed correctly to the engine?       
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

75bobcatv6

the 2.8l motors are known ( even at regular oil changes) to have the oil galleys and other oiling areas are prone to plugging up. which can cause low oil pressure and over heating as well.

Pintopower

Hmmm... Well, I do know that my oil pressure gauge reads 60psi at highway speeds... but I have had problems on poorly maintained engines like you stated above. What the heck, she's due for an oil change any way...
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Pintosopher

PintoPower,
Bear with me on this suggestion, first some relatable circumstances:
1978 Mustang II Cobra 2.8 with auto trans , Girlfriend's car ,I assumed was maintained at a minimum with fluid changes.
It overheats one day, I replace Thermostat and Anti-freeze, It overheats again within 5 minutes and water pump begins leaking. I replace waterpump and recheck thermostat placement, It overheats again before I can leave the driveway.
I'm really puzzled I ask about recent maintenance, pull the dipstick and am blown away by the oil condition (Sludge) I Pull the battery and go after the oil filter, It weighs almost 4 lbs and is nearly blocked, I change the oil install new filter and Viola! No more instant overheating.
The Oil pressure sender didn't give away the problem, but the damage to the rings had been done, it puffed blue on the trans shift points and started to use a bit of oil. But the Engine might have just needed a real thorough PCV cleaning and breather service.
Your engine is obviously better maintained, but possibly you have a failed Filter by pass and resultant lubrication issue, or maybe junk in the sump that's starving the pickup or plugged a galley in the block?

My two cents, hope it helps

Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Pintopower

Starliner:
The gauge in the car is after market, not the rallye pack. I have made sure it was working correctly by means of a temp gun. As for teflon tape, I do not use that. I use silicon sealant. I tell you, this is pissing me off. I have never had such problems with this engine.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Starliner

On my old 77 Cougar, my factory temperature gauge read cooler than normal when the interior was cool.  It would then read higher than normal when the interior was hot.   Running the heater, dash lights, or summer weather had it indicating it was hot.  For the longest time I thought it was my engine. 
Later I added an aftermarket gauge with the sensor in another location in the intake manifold so both gauges were operational.  The factory gauge was the problem.

Another thing to look at..  If you removed & installed the temperature gauge sensor and used teflon tape, that could create a high resistance ground path.         
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Pintopower

beegle55:
If the radiator were plugged, that would not account for the long time it takes to warm up as on this engine, water does not flow through the radiator until the engine warms up, plus the radiator is cooling great, 200 at the top and 70 at the bottom. What that is telling me is that the system is not flowing through the engine; it is passing through the radiator way to slow. When I used the temp gun on the radiator, it is cooling very even. The radiator is new, as is the coolant. The temp sender was the first thing I checked too. 

75bobcatv6:
I agree, it the engine should be at operating temp in about 4-5 min. I think there is a block in the engine as well, that is causing water to not flow well, and that would affect the temp sender IF hot water is not getting to it. That would give the illusion that the car is not heating up fast enough, when it actually is. I know the radiator is clean (trust me, you could drink the coolant in my cars engine it's so clean) but that does not mean that after that giant pot hole I hit something nasty wasn't jarred loose in the engine 150K mile since rebuild engine.

turbo74pinto:
It is not a stupid question. I from all the pintos and fiats I have built, half of the thermostats were in backwards. On the 2.8, the thermostat housing is to short to allow the thermostat to go in backwards. To check for exhaust, I have a sample of coolant to the radiator shop. They tested it for me and it was clean. I am however, intrigued buy the spinning impeller.... That would account for poor flow and if the engine water is not moved around enough while the car is warming up, may not sent hot water to the temp sensor. As for an air bubble... I know these damn 2.8's LOVE them. I use a pressure tester when I fill them to pump water through the system. I have filled 2.8 dozens of times with out a problem. I can't imagine why this time it wont get the bubble out.

71pintoracer :
Prior to me changing the gasket and falling into the massive pothole, the car ran perfect. Idled at 185 ish and ran on the highway at 180 ish. In traffic on a hot day with the a/c on, at 195 ish. So yes, either me changing the thermostat, which I have done a ton of times caused the problem, or the massive pothole that made the car damn near jump into the air caused the problem. The thermostat is not in backwards as it wont fit and I am aware of the air bubble but have always been able to bleed them out with out a problem. I have also added coolant after letting it run and then cool off.

Starliner:
The car does have a temp gauge which is working correctly. I used my volt meter with temp transducer to verify, plus I used my Raytek temp gun. The engine has a good ground as well. The antifreeze was changed when I did the thermostat for the third time. I used 40 coolant/60 De-ionized water (which I have to order from work)

TIGGER:
You are totally correct. Sadly, I did that this weekend. I think it's worse now. I made sure for the 3rd time that the thermostat area was clean. The bypass hose was clean also. Down there, nothing is blocking anything.

Course of action:
1. I am going to disconnect the water pump belt. This should cause the engine to heat up rapidly BUT of the temp gauge does not show that then the engine is indeed heating up as it should but the lack of flow is causing the temp sensor to give a false reading. I will monitor the engines temperature with a couple to thermocouples, a voltmeter and a temp gun so it wont get hot and blow up (which would ironically solve the heating problem). This would prove there is a heating problem.

2. Reattach belt and allow car to run. Check engine temp all over the engine. The temp should be fairly uniform and if there is a blockage (I think there is one at the top of the motor near the water outlet which is the same place as the water bypass) the temp of that area will vary drastically.

3. Have the system chemically power flushed. The radiator shop I use has turned corrosive cooling systems in cars I have bought into ones that will take well over two years to munch through a sacrificial anode. That WILL get all the crap out of the system for sure.

The only thing all this will not confirm will be what turbo74pinto  brought up about the slipping water pump impeller. This brings us to number four

4. Problem is not solved, purchase hi-po 302 and use the 2.8 to send Johnny Looselips to the bottom of the ocean.

Thanks for the input guys, see why this is pissing me off?
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

TIGGER

I would maybe flush the system using a tee and a water hose to get any crud out of the system.  My shop teacher always said to go back to the basics.  I am not too familiar with the 2.8's however could something have gotten blocked or messsed up when you changed the bypass gasket?  That is the only other thing that changed that could be causing you problems.  Just a thought.  Good luck to you.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Starliner

I would start with installing a new aftermarket temperature gauge. 
That would rule out if you are getting inaccurate information.
Also check that your engine has a good chassis ground.     

I would change your antifreeze again.  You must have a 50/50 mix. 
If you have too much antifreeze, it will act just like you said.
Too much anti-freeze will make it run hot. 


1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

71pintoracer

My question is, was it working/running fine before you changed the stat? I'm assuming it was because you said you changed it because of a leak, not a heating problem. Therefore, you caused the problem when you changed the stat. I suspect the stat may be in backwards like turbo said,or an air pocket, the V6's were notorious for this, mainly because the stat is in the lower hose. I used to fill the coolant through the heater hose with the front of the car jacked up. Many times I would also have to let the car heat up, cool down and add more coolant the same way, 2 or 3 times before it would get all of the air out.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

turbo74pinto

this may be a stupid question, but is the thermostat in backwards?  also, what are you using to test for exhaust gases?  im asking because the system i use, and the only i know of for that matter, uses a blue fluid in a turkey baster looking thing.  you zoop the air from the radiator and if there are exhaust gasses in the radiator, it turns the fluid either green or yellow.  also, for what its worth, contours had a problem with the impeller of the water pump spinning on its shaft.  it was caused, normally, from the impeller cracking.  it would do the same thing at times. 
also, a big air bubble will do the exact same thing.

bob



bob
Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

beegle55

A blockage in the radiator can cause slow warming as the system isn't circulating fluids correctly to entirely warm the engine in a timely manner.

     -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

75bobcatv6

sounds like a blockage in either the water jackets or the radiator that moves after a bit and allows coolant to move but gets stuck again causing it to over heat.
As far as it taking 15 min to heat up to op temp i have no idea, a motor once on should be at op temp within 4-7 min depending on how you are on the throttle.

beegle55

After further thinking I'd say it almost has to be a blockage in the radiator causing most if not all your problems. Poor circulation can also have an adverse effect on the proper warming of the engine, the cooling system deals with more than just cooling, it can also effect how the engine temperature is effected overall. I'd change out the radiator and put fresh antifreeze in it and see what happens.

    -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

beegle55

It sounds like its a problem within the radiator itself. If it isn't a blockage/internal problem in the radiator causing the main overheating at low RPM's, it sounds like an electrical problem. It could be a combination of both. The uneven temperature of the radiator suggests uneven flow. The high temps at low RPM also suggests a restriction of sorts that is only overcome by revving the engine. The other minor problems could be set off by a sort of elec problem such as bad sending unit, if the thermostat is fine.

    -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

Pintopower

Ok, I swear to god I have had it. Here is the deal: A couple months ago my steering rack went out. I rebuilt it, the pump and replaced the lines. While there I noticed the thermostat housing was leaking coolant so I decided to change it. I bought a new housing and thermostat and installed them like I have done many times before, plus I changed the bypass gasket behind the timing cas that is held on with the (stainless) water pump housing bolts. I am VERY familiar with this engine and have built several. The first drive I went out on after doing that work I hit a pot hole that damaged a wheel. I do not know if the car was having the heating problems before or not as I did not look at the temp gauge. I simply did not want to leave anything out of the story. Anyway, when I pulled over after hitting the pot hole, the car started boiling over. It was 40 degrees that night. Then I drove home and the temp gauge hit 220. I limped her home and have had problems ever since. Here is what the care is doing.

1. Takes for ever to heat up; would normally hit operating temp in 3-5 min, now takes over 15.
2. Will not regulate its temperature; temp is all over the place.
3. Water coming in from the bottom of the radiatior is 70 degrees and at the top it is 200+.
4. Highway driving, the car stays at 195. The minute you lower the RPM, it raises FAST. All you need to do is drop her in neutral, raise the RPM and it drops.

Here is what I have done:
1. I thought it was a thermostat. Changed it 2 times. NOT THE THERMOSTAT
2. Thought the water pump may have gone bad. Took it off. ITS FINE
3. Noticed the .113 smaller diameter of the input outlet of the new thermostat housing and the 40% smaller input of the heater core line. Thta would NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CAR NOT GETTING HOT FAST ENOUGH, plus the car should run cool enough without the heater core being used.
4. Maybe there is bad flow? THAT WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CAR NOT GETTING HOT FAST ENOUGH, but might seem like that if the temp sender area is not getting hot water? Maybe there is bad flow in the engine/blockage?
5. Plug in the cooling system? THAT WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CAR NOT GETTING HOT FAST ENOUGH, unless the temp sender (at the water outlet) is just not getting hot enough water as stated above (temp gauge is accurate, I double checked with a temp gun).
6. Plugged heater core? THAT WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CAR NOT GETTING HOT FAST ENOUGH
7. Checked coolant for signs of exhaust in the water or oil. CLEAN (took water sample and used a test kit).
8. Pressure test across all cylinders, ALL +/- 5 PSI
9. Timing is at +20 BUT it has always been and THAT WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE CAR NOT GETTING HOT FAST ENOUGH
10. Prior to this, the car idled with the A/C on in 110 degree weather at 195 and ran at 185 on the highway.
11. No, the car does NOT have a fan shroud, nor will it ever get one. It has a massive aluminum radiator and plastic flex fan. It will zoop your hand to the condensor so I think the CFM is fine. 
12. Coolant is changed every year on all my cars.
13. Oil is 500 miled new.

Is there something I forgot? Does any one know of anything I missed? Any ideas? I am at a loss here people.

Alberto

P.S. NO, I an not changing the engine out for a 2.3 or 302.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.