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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

I think I got a lemon, any ideas?

Started by Kid Colt II, August 07, 2008, 07:02:52 PM

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dga57

Sounds great.  Enjoy!
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Kid Colt II

Got my 72' back on the road today, had a fun time. :)
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

jimspinto

Quote from: Reed on August 09, 2008, 09:51:59 AM
Nope, I was just repeating what I have heard.  I do know that many "leaded" engines have run fine for deades on "unleaded" gas with no cracked valves or heads.

   Re, "nope, I was just repeating what I heard"

   Did I miss something, I don't quite understand what you meant !
   Then again maybe your post wasn't directed to me, and or my post on the use of "lead"
    I went back and reread you (only) post.  Re. alot of engines ran fine on unleaded, until......  Is that what your referring to ?

   Maybe you could explain, you know us country bumkins don't always get it the first time

   Thanks  Jim  at jimspinto

Reed

Nope, I was just repeating what I have heard.  I do know that many "leaded" engines have run fine for deades on "unleaded" gas with no cracked valves or heads.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

jimspinto


  I just read both pages of this post.

  After almost 50 years of automotive repair (as a gas station owner) I have to agree with some of the replies.  Theres no reason why you couldn't do the work your self.  And purchasing a book is a good idea.  If nothing else it (the manual) will give you a better understanding of the engine and etc.  If you don't try it, how do you know that you cant do it !

  On another subject,,,,,, Damage done to an engine, because of the lack of lead ?  And adding a lead substitute ?

  Both are subjects that will bring on all kind of arguments, so I think I will through my two cents worth in.
 
  First of all, some of you are old enough to remember the "flying red horse" and the fact that this company sold gasoline WITHOUT LEAD ADDED, or "lead free".  And advertised it. "our gas contains no lead"
  Wouldn't you question how the cars that ran on this gas didn't have any valve problems ?

  One thing that I can tell you is.......... back in the days  (50's, 60's, 70's) we never expected to get a car (engine) to run smooth when it had 80,000 or more miles on it.  It needed a valve job at this point, because of wear.
Surprise, surprise, they were designed that way.  Also. metal wasn't hardened back in the "old days"

  The oil companies added the lead because it was THE CHEEPEST WAY to boost the octane, then told (sold) you that it was to do wondrous things (like cushion the valves)
  Remember they also sold you on how much better it was when they removed it, AND CHARGED YOU EXTRA for the unleaded or low leaded gas.  Ah, those were the days ! ! !

  As to a lead additive,  why don't you get some input from those scientist, engineer guys.  Gees. I hate them, you ask them what time it is and they build you a watch.
  In my opinion (remember I'm just a mechanic, I only fix the things) anything you add to the gasoline, goes out the tailpipe. Doesn't do anything for the engine on the way.

  Bottom line,,,, you don't need lead,,,,,,,,never did,,,,, never will,,,,,,,
  There I said it, opened the can of worms, now I'm ready for the abuse.
  The best one I gotten so far was,,,,,,,,,, I drove truck for over twenty years, hauling gasoline, so I know.
  Couldn't argue with that logic, so I quit.
  Hope you got a better argument then that,,,,,,,,best to ya,Jim at jimspinto

71hotrodpinto

Hey there, just caught this thread.
Id be willing to lend a helping hand trouble is i cant go anywhere. Youd have to come here. Im in Sunland, Ca. straight up the 405 and make a right down the 118 to the 210. About an hour in light traffic.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Redondo+Beach,+CA&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=sunland&f=d&sll=33.84447,-118.38795&sspn=0.104934,0.220585&ie=UTF8&ll=34.223726,-118.406181&spn=0.208932,0.44117&t=h&z=12

Yahh i remember the valve adjustmant routine on my ol 2.0 engine. Put about 200,000 on her over 2 rebuilds and 13 years.
Im afraid that you will have to get some basic tools, and some dirt under the fingernails when you own ANY car thats 36 years old my friend. I also live in an apartment and have to work on the vehicles that i own to save money , and for my now project car of 5 years. The only way i can do it is to be discreete for light stuff and pick later hours for major manitinence.  :hypno: Ive had more than my fair share of 3:00 to 4:00am nights because of that. However having said that i dont live in the big buks Redondo beach area.Im sure that they (managers) monitor more closely out there.

That said if i could help and you wanted to spend a few hours down here. Buy me some Mcdonalds lunch and ill see if we cant get something figured out up here.
Robert


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

Kid Colt II

Quote from: Wittsend on August 08, 2008, 09:01:28 AM
Kid Colt II where in Califonia are you located? At least the city (specific) would help those near you for input you need.
Tom

Redondo Beach, CA   :)
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Wittsend

Kid Colt II where in Califonia are you located? At least the city (specific) would help those near you for input you need.
Tom

dga57

Got to agree with you there... I've met a few Lincoln afficionados here but wasn't expecting to meet up with a Rolls guy.  Just curious... I see in your profile that you're twenty-five.  Seldom see guys that age who've gone the Rolls/Bentley route.  There's bound to be a story there!  As for me, I acquired my first (a 1965 Silver Cloud III) as an inheritance from my grandfather.  I was eighteen at the time.  I also owned a 1974 Ford Pinto Runabout that I had purchased new two years earlier.  Comparatively, the Rolls was w-a-y more car than I was used to handling and, after driving it for about six months) I opted for selling.  Wish I had it back now... the value has gone crazy on those things!  Anyway, going from that back to the Pinto was a culture shock too.  I then compromised by trading my Pinto and using the money I got out of the Cloud to buy a Lincoln Town Car.  It was a much more modern configuration than the Rolls I'd had and once I got used to driving it, I felt quite comfortable with the larger car.  Since then, I've owned ten other Lincolns (still have a '79 Collector's Series Continental and a '79 Mark V) and the Silver Spirit I mentioned earlier which was a much more driveable car than the Cloud.  My main purpose in deciding to move up to a Silver Spur was that I have a fifteen-year-old son whose feet have gotten so large, I thought the additional rear footroom would be appreciated, plus he was always sad that our Spirit didn't have the rear trays since that's where he rode most of the time.  If I had known what was going to happen, I would have kept what I had! 
I bought my Pinto in January of this year.  Just had a longing to have another one after all these years! ::)
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Kid Colt II

Quote from: dga57 on August 08, 2008, 01:37:47 AM
I posted my last message to you before you posted the Silver Shadow photo!  If you truly owned that, then you're well acquainted with the maintenance costs... let alone repairs! 

Never thought I'd meet another RR/Bentley owner here on the Pinto Forums. Heh, yes, I truly did own her. So much fun to drive, so little fun to see the repair bill.
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

dga57

Well, duh... my bad :embarassed:  After a second look, I see that your car was, in fact a Bentley!  I had just made the other post when I saw the picture and set down and typed another whole response which I posted, then saw your reply referring to it as a Bentley.  Went back and took a second look.  Mea culpa!  You know, living here in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, seeing a Rolls is an event.  There might be a half a dozen within a 100 mile radius.  You seldom see more than one or two even at British car shows.  As far as Bentleys, I've never actually seen one except in photos.  Essentially, however, the cars are identical when it comes to working on them. 
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dga57

I posted my last message to you before you posted the Silver Shadow photo!  If you truly owned that, then you're well acquainted with the maintenance costs... let alone repairs!  I had an 85 Silver Spirit that was close to that color but two-toned with a darker claret on the bottom.  Had the tan hides with red piping.  Sweet ride but decided to sell it in favor of a 1989 Silver Spur about two years ago.  Due to financial restrictions, I had to sell the Spirit prior to locating a Spur.  Sold it and then, while searching for just the right replacement, my 46-year-old wife suddenly suffered a debilitating stroke.  That ended her career and, even though she draws disability, reduced our annual income by approximately $20,000.  As a result, I am currently Rolls-less and probably will be for a while.  A friend of mine has a nice 80K 1988 Silver Spur for sale at the moment and I'd love to have it but one promise I made myself years ago is that I would never borrow money to feed my car hobby.  So far I've made good on that vow and my intention is to let his Rolls pass :'( no matter how much I'd like to do otherwise.   :(  
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Kid Colt II

Quote from: dga57 on August 08, 2008, 01:23:33 AM
And we don't even want to talk about RR parts!  Fix your car, maintain it, and ENJOY!

Dwayne :smile:

That's why I sold my 1967 Bentley T. I loved her dearly, but even with a convenient Rolls Royce-specific junkyard in LA by Beverly Hills, it still was too much for parts and repairs for me.
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

dga57

Wow :o  That's a really decent looking car - with a body like that, the engine is definitely worth fixing.  I wish my '72 looked that good, then there'd be nothing much to do it at all.  Fortunately, mine runs great and the valves were adjusted by the seller the day before I picked it up.  Drove it home 165 miles on the Interstate!  

I had hoped to do all the cosmetic stuff this summer but family health problems have interfered with that plan.  I have accumulated pretty much everything I need parts-wise to re-do it... now just having problems finding the time to work on it.  Worst case scenario, it may have to wait until Spring although I still have hopes of getting it done before winter.  We'll see!  

By the way, I'm pretty mechanically inept too, although I do fairly well with bodywork, paint, and interior restoration.  My advice is to make friends with someone who has a little mechanical knowledge.  Then you can either learn by watching/helping or, at the very least, have a source to turn to when you encounter problems.  Choosing a 36 year old car is a committment, moreso than buying a new one.  The rewards, however, are legion.  For instance, no one gives me a thumbs up when I go down the road in my $35,000 2008 Chrysler Sebring convertible... whereas I get honks, cheers, thumbs up, and high fives every time I drive my little Pinto ;D, even in it's sad cosmetic state.

Another word of inspiration... Pintos, generally speaking, are not all that expensive to work on.  My classic car interests over the years also include Lincolns and Rolls Royces.  The paint job alone on one of my Lincolns cost double what I'll have invested in my Pinto to bring up to where I want it.  And we don't even want to talk about RR parts!  Fix your car, maintain it, and ENJOY!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Kid Colt II

This was my last older car I owned. She was pretty nice, but I couldn't afford the standard maintenance on her. She was just a tad more than $700 though. ;)
I lost my fortune investing in the Puppy dog, candy, and fireworks factory.

1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Kid Colt II

I paid a mere $700 for her. I thought that was a great deal because the body seemed clean, original paint, and no rust. Only problem is that to be honest, I'm quite frankly...poor. So not in good driving condition scares the *** out of me.  :lost:
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

75bobcatv6

wow, thats nice even though its dark it looks to be a nice ride, regardless of the mechanical flaws id fix it up

Kid Colt II

Here are pics of the car. Sorry, it's dark out here in California this hour, and I haven't had time to wash/wax her yet. So here she is, as I bought her. Those white specs you see all over the hood is just moisture.



1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Wittsend

When I got my Pinto I had about 60 pounds in one cylinder and one or two more were below the highest.  I adjusted the valves and the 60 went up to 132.  The engine had 86,000 miles on it and probably never had the valves adjusted. There was ZERO lash on virtually every exhaust valve.

Your car is 36 years old.  You can't expect it to be trouble free (regardless of what some seller stated).   Look at this as a learning experience.  I sorry to be so blunt, but owning a car like this and knowing how to fix it (they are rather simple as cars go) go hand in hand.  Otherwise you will pay dearly for someone to tinker with your car and quite frequently I would suspect.  Start by learning how to adjust the valves.  See if that makes a difference.  I wish you all the best.

Tom

75bobcatv6

Quote from: Pintony on August 08, 2008, 12:35:46 AM
You guys out in California still have Pinto books at the parts store????
Kid Colt don't need no stinking BOOK!! SAVE the 15 bucks!!!
He has got the PCCA for parts and info.
Problem is!! The book was writen by an author NOT a Pinto guy..
Damn I'm alot smarter than any Chiltons book!!!
From Pintony

lol this is true. and i dont live in California anymore tony, havent since the late 90's when i left basic training rofl

75bobcatv6

I know how you feel kid colt, mine isnt being to Friendly with me either, but im not mechanically Inept as you put it. I can work on my car just dont have alot of time between working 2 Jobs to put food on the table as well as clothing and other nessesities. but i would if i were you go to a local Auto parts store Invest teh 15$ for the book, and spend a bit on An SAE/metric set of tools to have handy for when you decide to learn to do the work yourself, I've looked to the board here for advice and gotten alot of it, and i look to my father and his best friend who both have worked on cars for a combined total over 100 years,
 

   Its being the way it is now due to the lack of respect givin to the car when the previous owners had it. mine looks Shabby but she Still runs and was Babied for the most part by my father. =) I wish you the best of luck with the car though
anything you need Ask here on the board you'll get answers from some of the finest people i've met. I will help anyway i can,(i'm not as car Savvy as most of the people on here but im great at finding parts)

Kid Colt II

Quote from: Pintony on August 08, 2008, 12:20:13 AM
Hello Kid Col tII,
Did your friend drive your new Pinto from palmdale?
You saying Lemon clued me in!!!!
I'll even bet your mom or sister has said it!!!
From Pinto


Yeah.....
It was driven home from Palmdale....


Eek.  :o
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Kid Colt II

Quote from: Pintony on August 08, 2008, 12:07:33 AM
Hello Kid Colt II,
The 2.0 is really bad for having broken valve stem seals.
This is most likely causing the oil burn
They are easy enough to change W/O removing the head.
Does you Pinto happen to be yellow?
From Pintony



Greetings, yes, my pinto indeed happens to be yellow.
*Looks over his shoulder, then under the computer desk*
Where ya' hidin' at? :P
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Kid Colt II

Thank you all very much for the info and support. Sadly, I am mechanically inept. I live in the city in an apartment, and don't even have a garage to work in even if I wanted to tackle it myself.

The man at the carburetor shop wrote "Engine has low compression and is burning oil".
Does the "burning oil" part make this situation worse?  ???

I suppose I'll take it to another shop tomorrow. I really like the car, I just wish it liked me a bit more. :P
1972 Pinto 2 door sedan 4 Speed, 2.0 I4 ohc engine

Ironman

Reed has a very good point, and I failed to emphasize it as well.


Ironman
Ironman

Reed

I re-read my post and realized it wasn't a moel of clarity.

I believe that the low compression is most likely caused by valves that need adjustment.    I strongly recommend adjusting them before you do anything more drastic.    This should only set you back the cost of a valve covere gasket, a set of feeler guages, and a set of wrenches.  Not more than $50.   A valve adjustment on a four cylinder shouldn't take more than a few hours, (more likeless than one) even if you are a newbie.

Maybe someone can scan the instructions for a valve adjustment and post them?
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

Ironman

My own 2 cents. compression readings like that would make me think the rings probably arnt bad. Rings and cylinders usually wear pretty even across the board. In other words, whatever condition the rings in the cylinder with 145lbs,.. the rest are probably about the same.

I would suspect valve ajustment or valve seats hammered out and split valves. You have some pretty low readings, it takes a good sized escape route for compression to be as low as 25 lbs. I agree with everyone that you should get a decent maual if your going to try it yourself. And if you have a friend whos mechanicaly inclined,.. (someone who can actually put something back together and make it run) see if they will help you with your project.

Another simple test you can do to determine if the problem is cylinder (ring) related, or head related is to start the car and look for smoke in two places.

1. The tail pipe,.. if the rings are shot, oil from the crankcase will enter the combustion chamber and burn,.. making smoke out the tail pipe. that is not a sure fire test, but it will tell you if oil is entering the combustion chamber. it can also enter by leaking past the valve.

2. Pull the oil filler cap and see if there is light smoke "puffing" out. If there is this is a definate sign of exaust gasses entering the crankcase, either by sloppy rings or a burnt piston. This condition is called "blow by"

If your engine passes the blow by test,.. you should only have to do some head work.

Dont let the project or all the terms your hearing spook ya.  Did you ever put a model car together?  In some ways the real thing is even easier,.. the parts are bigger and heavier  but easier to put together.

If you decide to tackle the problem yourself, dont be overwhelmed. take the project one step at a time. In other words break it down into smaller goals. Like maybe the first step will be to clean the engine so you dont get dirt and crud inside when you open it up.

this could take a couple evenings if you've never done it. Then maybe the goal for the third evening would be to remove the battery from the car, drain the oil from the engine the coolant from the radiator and remove the radiator. Its not nessesary to remove the radiator for this task, but a good Idea so it doesnt get damaged. Stuff happens sometimes. Try to find something to protect the fenders from scratches while your working, and dont lean to hard on the fenders, they will pop back out if they dent,.. but it will leave marks. Another good habit to get into when doing a project in small seperate stages is to put all the bolts and fasteners that came out for that sub assembly together in one area. Example would be put the radiator somwhere it wont get kicked around, and put the bolts and hoses in a little box with it.

Maybe you could take on removing the intake and exhaust manifolds the next evening. take your time, and become familiar with using tools correctly. If at all possible allways try to use "box end" wrenches or 6 point sockets when removing bolts, this will help ensure less chance of damage to fasteners. If you are unsure what these tools are,.. go to an auto parts store and have someone there show them to you. You might even find someone that can give you a little help on how to do things.

Once you have the intake and exhaust out of the way your ready to remove the timming belt and take off the cylinder head.

And remember,.. BEFORE  you take anything apart, do the test I described above for smoke.
Once the cylinder head is off, with out experience it will be difficult for you to determine if the rings are bad.

Good luck!

Ironman
Ironman

75bobcatv6

it depends on your own dedication to your pinto, the goals you have set for yourself and the car. if you want to keep the car i would do as suggested and have the head work done, but you will also need to check your rings, as they might also be bad, With the compression as you showed it i would think it might be both. we are all here to help and will help anyway that we can, so please keep us updated as to your progress and what your plans are.

Reed

Way back in the pre early 70s, cars ran on gas thatr had lead as an additive.  Lead was nasty and made toxic exhaust.  However, lead also helped cushion the impact of the valve faces on the cylinder head when the valves closed.  When lead was removed from gas in the early 70s, to compensate for the loss of this cushioning effect car manufactures "hardened" the seats of the valves in the cylinder heads.  Otherwise, the valves would eventually pit or crack and you would lose sompression in the cylinder. 

Cylinder heads that were designed to run on unleaded gas then either had to have a lead substitute added or have "hardened" valve seats installed. 

Low compression is typically caused by one of four things:

(1)  worn cylinder bores or piston rings
(2)  a blown head gasket
(3)  a cracked or pitted valve
(4)  valves out of adjustment

If you have worn rings or cylinder bores, you need a whole engine rebuild

If you have a blown head gasket you need a new head gasket (not too bad)

Ifyou have cracked or pitted valves, you need a cylinder head rebuild (not a bad idea anyway since you can have the hardened valve seats installed)

If your valves are out of adjustment you need to adjust them

If I were in your shoes, I would get ahold of a shop manual and adjust the valves.  This may solve your problem.

If adjusting the valves doesn't solve the problem then you need to pull the cylinder head to determine exactly what is wrong.  No matter if it is a worn out motor, a blown head gasket, or a cracked valve, you will need to pull the head to diagnose it. 

I suspect that you most likely just need to rebuild the cylinder head and get some valves replaced.  This should run about $500 if you have them install hardened seats.

If you like the car and the rest of the car si in good shape, a cylinder head rebuild isn't really that bad of a job.  It isn't hard to get the head off and it isn't too expensive to pay a reputable shop to rebuild it.  However, I strongly urge you to get a shop manual and do as much of the work as you can yourself.
Looking for:  Rear and side window louvers for a 71 sedan, 15 inch aluminum slotted mags and tires (Ansen sprint style), and an Offenhauser dual-port intake for a 2000cc motor.

apintonut

Quote from: Kid Colt II on August 07, 2008, 07:18:08 PM
Sorry, I'm a newbie so I don't understand. Are you saying that the car is running poorly because I am using normal unleaded gasoline?

Also, getting the valves fixed would only be $300-$400?
sorry, but the valves went bad because of the "newer" gas  3-400$ if u pull the head and take to a shop then but it back on.
yes u have said that your not much of a mechanic. so the best way to learn is do it. and when ur done its that much better of a feeling of accomplishment.
we all have ur back to help
and u can still get books
if u do decide to fix.  take ur time when taking it apart . label every thing.  
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.