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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Gas gauge finally fixed

Started by caravan3921, December 12, 2021, 07:15:39 PM

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caravan3921

Just an fyi that no progress on the hesitation issue. It seems to still slightly jerk when driving it. It's very random. Life events have gotten in the way of solving the problem once and for all. Will revisit this fall after triple digit temperatures have passed!

nnn0wqk

Read most of the post and I am not getting a clear idea of when it acts up for you. Hot only, cold only, hot and cold, or just when ever it feels like it. Reason I ask is it is not that hard to duplicate hot or cold issues with the ignition module. Heat gun will warm it up and a trip to the freezer will cool them down. And not that hard to connect back into the system to see the results if it has been in the freezer. The one item that has not been mentioned in the ignition system is the pickup unit inside the distributor. The leads flex all the time as the vacuum advance does it thing. Add heat and forty years of time to the wires and if that has never been replaced it is very possible the wires are starting to break inside the insulation. That pickup causes all sorts of interesting issues as it fails. Back firing, no start to name a few. A way to test is put a vacuum pump on the vacuum advance unit and pump it up and down a few times with engine running and see if you can duplicate your issues. You can heat up the coil while running with the heat gun to see if you can duplicate the issue.

These are just some easy ways to test this stuff, does not always show a problem but if heat related about 95 percent of the time you can find the issue this way. My experience over the years has been usually/not always the module will just die. The pickup coil on the other hand will cause you to go bald if you do not think to check it.

I would really have my doubts that a vacuum delay would be causing you any issues. When you think about it all they do is DELAY they do not stop the vacuum.

Another item on the engine that can cause issues but usually more at idle than else where is if the EGR valve is not sealing well. Hard to adjust idle mixture if the EGR is leaking.

What engine and transmission? I do not believe I saw that information. There are other things I can suggest for you to check but I need a clearer idea what the symptoms are.

I am ASE Master Auto Tech, ASE Master HD Truck tech and own a 74 with 230k and at one time worked in an Auto repair shop the specialized in drivability issues. A Pinto really is not that hard to make run right IMHO. Sounds like the shop you have been trusting your Pinto to really does not have good grasp of what is going on.


One last question; when did this problem show up? After the sender was replaced or before. And was any other work done to the car at the time the sender was replaced?

Mattb

Just another thought. Earlier in the thread you mentioned the fuel tank was repaired. Since the tank will need to come out to replace the sending unit now is the time to consider should a new tank be installed. A lot depends on how damaged the tank was, how it was repaired and how much rust inside. Same tank as the Mustang II. Spectra F81A I believe.  They seem in limited supply and who knows in the future.

Mattb

My 77 sedan uses a Spectra FG 179B. ( I believe 77 and  78 were the same). Same sending unit used in 4 cylinder Mustang II of that year. I got mine from Rock Auto a few years ago but they seem to be difficult to find now. There does appear to be one on Amazon right now. There is also a 178B which I believe is correct for the 74-76 cars and a 178 and 9 A which do not have the second pipe for the return line from the fuel pump. The single pipe units were used on the V8 Mustang  IIs.( at least my that's  what my 78 V8 Mustang II uses).
   The 178 series units look dimensionally similar to the 179 series units but have a slightly different ohm rating which presumably would have some effect on gauge accuracy. Naturally the 178B appears to be much more plentiful and cheaper.
  Hope is helps.

caravan3921

Confused as to which sending unit to get, and where...
Any way to make this easy?

caravan3921

Update on car stalling: another mechanic looked at it today and assessed it on a full gas tank, when it runs beautifully. He suggested that the sending unit that was 'fixed' back in December actually needs to be completely replaced. He is suggesting that when the gas tank is half or less, that's when we experience all the hesitation/stalling issues. We are going to test his idea, let the tank get to lower, and observe if it then starts to act up. If his theory holds true, then the sending unit was the issue all along.

Mattb

I wouldn't be surprised if back in the day there was a test machine for them. However since in my experience they tend to fail intermittently just changing it is probably more cost efficient. Labor to change it should be minimal. A couple of screws hold it to the fender and there are two wire harness connectors. You can always order the module through the net but most likely you can source one locally. Looks like Rock Auto has Motorcraft unit available but Ive had luck with NAPA. One thing you might have to watch out for is if your car came with factory " altitude compensation ". In that case the module would have 3 wire harness connectors and you might have to do a little more searching to find one.

caravan3921

Appreciate all the input....thx for chiming in.
Based on 2 conversations we've had within the last 2 days with 2 knowledgeable car people, we're going to zero in on the ignition module. We were out walking 2 evenings ago and a guy and his mechanic were working on his 1941 restored gorgeous Ford. We got to talking and shared our woes with our Pinto, and after hearing the details of the work that's been done on it the last 2 months, he said he'd look into the ignition module as being the problem. Then yesterday, we had a conversation with a member of the local car restoration club. We reached out to this club by email, detailing our problem with the pinto, and this gentleman shared our email with his son in Oregon. His son has had pintos and has had ignition module issues with them as well. So this guy and his son are encouraging us to have that looked at. So...with this advice, coupled with the same comments here mentioning to have that looked at, it's the next logical step. We brought the ignition module issue up to the mechanic shop where we've been taking it, but for some reason they didn't follow up with that suggestion. We're going to take it to another shop.   Is there a way for a mechanic to check if the ignition module is working correctly, before replacing it?? Thanks for all the input!

Mattb

Based on my experience the 74 and later Pintos use the same fuel sending unit as the Mustang II. If you have a 77 or a 78 ( and not a wagon) with the 4 cylinder you would use Spectra 179B sending unit. The 178B unit is for 74-76 although should fit the 77-78 although accuracy may be a bit off due to different resistance ratings. You do not want a 179A unit as that is for the V8 Mustang IIs. Still if you do have a fuel problem given the fact that you reported the fuel pump output was adequate the carb would remain suspect.
    However do not give up on considering this is a coincidental ignition issue related to the ignition control  module I mentioned in an earlier post. Even if this is not the problem they are not too expensive and a lot easier to change then dropping the tank again and good to have a spare especially if your unit is original to the car. NAPA should have one. Hopefully you can find another shop to help you.

1972 Wagon

You might want to try checking eBay to see if there is an NOS snding unit for your Pinto. Every now and then, one comes up for sale. If it fixes the problem, you know the rebuilt unit failed. For years, our '83 Ranger's gas gauge didn't work and there wasn't a "new" replacement for it. We had to record our mileage to make sure we didn't run out of gas. The correct unit finally came up on eBay. Our mechanic installed it and the gauge now works. The brass gas float on the old unit had been completely destroyed by ethanol gas. We know this because in the early 90's we had replaced the original sending unit. Within a few years the gas gauge no longer worked again so the ethanol gas had eaten the float fairly quickly. It's one reason why we only use non-ethanol gas.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

caravan3921

Still dying and hesitating, not all the time but enough to keep us nervous about driving it. The problems all started after the mechanic repaired the old sending unit which tested bad. We informed the shop that the problem remains; just silence on their end of the phone line. We're looking at other mechanic options and won't be returning there. This issue all goes back to early December and the 'repair' of the existing sending unit.

PintoTim2

Mattb:  Back in the mid 80s,  my 1979 2.3L m/t Bobcat had an issue with the vacuum delay valve.  I remember  getting a new one & having the same issue about 2 months later.  We took it out & it really didn't make any difference performance-wise.  The valve is supposed to prevent spark knock when the throttle closes suddenly.   The years have fogged my memory of what the original issue was, so I can't say for certain it was stalling. 

The big issues I had with the car was a plugged cat when I got it (PO ran leaded fuel I'm certain) and I got a bad tank of fuel once that would plug up the gas filter for years afterward.  Eventually I installed a big filter before the fuel pump and had the tools to swap it out whenever it acted up.  My girlfriend was so impressed I could fix the car anywhere that she's kept me around for 34 years.....

1972 Wagon

We live in a small, rural area. One Shell station sells non-ethanol gas labeled as "Marine" gas. It is priced about equal to premium. We buy non-ethanol for our 1949 Chevy, 1972 Pinto, and 1983 Ranger at our local landscape/ feed store dealer. They are not listed on Gas Buddy or any sites as selling non-ethanol gas and I assume it is because they are not a gas station. They have off road diesal fuel as well. The tanks are above ground and the pumps are the old style (non-digital) with little tabs that flip over. One of the workers fills your tank (no, they don't clean the windshield!) and you go in the store to pay. We buy our horse feed there and it is how we discovered they sold non-ethanol gas. I wonder if your sending unit has failed again. Our 1989 Suburban would run fine and then suddenly die without warning. One minute the engine was running and the next it wasn't. We would wait a few minutes and the car would restart, run for a mile or two,and die again. Thankfully we were able to limp it the few miles to our mechanic. It was a bad sending unit. Less than two years later, the replacement sending unit failed. Same symptoms so we knew what it was. At least the part was still under warranty so we only had to pay for the labor.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

Mattb

Well if it was running fine with the vacuum delay valve in place before this all started I dont see how removing it will fix anything. I would drive it a bit more and see if its only an issue when its "cold" in which case the  choke may need more work. I would make sure its good with a lot of driving after it's hot.  Another shop for a second opinion may be in order. By the way based on your picture I would assume you have a 77 or a 78. What engine? I have a 77 with the 4 cylinder.. I let it "stabilize" for about 10 seconds after I start it and drive off. Does not quit.

caravan3921

Well we took it around a few blocks today and it killed once. The mechanics kept stressing it has to warm up, warm up.  It's never had to 'warm up' before all this started happening. So is this the 'new normal' that we just have to get used to?  😖

dga57

That sounds promising!  Keep us updated!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

caravan3921

Picked it up today and hubby drove it home and says it's running good, like it used to. Cautiously optimistic...mechanic "removed the vacuum delay valve from the inline vacuum hose going to the distributor advance, and adjusted the choke and air/fuel mixture."
So...we will see.....He said the vacuum delay valve is an emissions thing, and our pinto here in AZ has an exemption to that anyway. The choke/air/fuel mixture has been adjusted numerous times. Fingers crossed that the engine killing on us is fixed. This classic auto shop is tired of seeing us and we're tired of seeing them. Hah hah..We've been like a hangnail to them that won't go away! (They didn't charge us for this last visit.) Anyway, if it acts up again, I think we'll be taking it elsewhere for a new set of eyes on the problem. But I'm hopeful they know what they're talking about since they only work on old vehicles and they were highly recommended to us. (Hoping the removal of the vacuum delay valve was an ok decision on their part). Now I'm reading up on Emission Controls and Fuel System in my Chilton's manual.


Mattb

Reading you posts again I noticed you say the fuel tank and sending unit were " fixed". Were the existing units  fixed and reused or were new units installed. The reason I ask I had the fuel system redone  in my 77 and the sending unit had substantial corrosion and the pipe portion in the tank was essentially crumbling. Car was low mileage. Something to consider.

oldandcrotchety

This may not be any help, but years ago I had a vehicle that would just die for no apparent reason. It would start back up and might go quiet a while and then die again. I spent a long time trying to figure it out with no success until one day a friend asked me if I had took a good look in the gas tank to see if I could find any pieces of debris. Sure enough, there was a flake of rust about an inch by inch and a half.  Turns out that it would periodically get sucked up tight to the pickup tube and cut off the gas. When it died the vacuum would be released and the flake would float away until the next time it got sucked up tight to the pickup tube.

caravan3921

It goes back in shop Monday. The fuel is all fresh and is not old.
The mechanic repaired the existing sending unit back in December.
We're taking all of your ideas to the shop on Monday. In the meantime we're at least starting it every day. When it does die, at least it starts right back up again. (The seller on eBay has taken down the post for the red pinto, before the auction ended. Doesn't say seller accepted any offer. Maybe seller sold it local.)



PintoMan1

sorry i can't help you with your problem. i seen the red car you are talking about. did you take a real good look at the pictures of the underside of the car? looks good on the outside, but underneath does not look like something i would want to take on. just saying.
1973 pinto runabout

PintoTim2

How old is the fuel?   If it's been sitting awhile, the alcohol in the fuel sinks to the bottom where the fuel pickup is.  With E10 (10% alcohol -or- pump gas these days) this isn't usually a problem.  With higher alcohol levels, it is (a E85 vehicle will run, but very poorly until you shake up the fuel and mix it).   I have had 6 month old gas not run a newer lawn tractor.   I wondering if the gas is old and a fresh tank would help.   Just another idea.  Gasoline these days doesn't age well.  With it running great for 16 years, something changed....   

caravan3921

Thanks for chiming in, appreciate it. Obviously I'm feeling pretty disheartened.
On 2/10, he verified the fuel pump was operating correctly, pressure and volume within specs. I'll bring all your ideas to the mechanic on Monday. If they can't resolve it we're taking it elsewhere for another set of eyes on it. This car has been such a champ for 16 years and I've just not experienced this type of on-going issues with it. (Have you seen that gorgeous red pinto on eBay? Auction ends in a day or so; reserve not met at $5000.) Thanks again for your input!

PintoTim2

As a rule of thumb - but not 100% of the time:   A fuel starved engine will sputter when it dies.  An ignition issue will cut it off instantly.  If the car restarts immediately, then it probably wasn't starved for fuel (the carb fuel bowl was full).   If it takes a bit of cranking and pumping the accelerator pump, then it was probably starved for fuel.   

I have seen bad Duraspark ignition modules that caused poor running and died at idle, like Mattb suggested.    There are a couple types - if I remember right, there are blue and brown grommet modules.   The connectors are a real bear to get apart.... Tim G.

Mattb

The Duraspark unit is called the ignition control module. Not too pricey and easy to change. Even if thats not the problem nice to have a spare as they do quit.

Mattb

No expert here but a few thoughts. Given the fuel tank/ sending unit work make sure the fuel system is venting correctly. Also make sure the replacement sending unit is the same as the one that was removed. There are 2  styles one has a return line from the fuel pump.  Make sure none of the metal fuel lines have been pinched thus restricting flow.  Has the shop checked for fuel pressure and volume output of the fuel pump? Also it would be coincidental but I have had a couple of Fords from that era that were running poorly/ quitting and turned out to be the control unit for the Duraspark system that was bad.

caravan3921

Frustrated as heck!
Had it in 4 times for same thing, and it's worse than ever.
Let's see, paid them over $1,500.
Vehicle still dies and stalls. To summarize visits: adjusted high idle, backed off choke tension, repair choke, free up choke pull, reset choke; remove carburetor, overhaul, reassemble and reinstall, adjusted timing. Of course it never dies or stalls for them! Grr!
It's a '78 with 31,000 miles. There's a pinto on eBay over 107,000 miles which starts great and runs good...boy, it's tempting. Now he says to bring it back in and leave it overnight so he can look at it when it's cold and not warmed up. It's been in the shop more in the last few weeks than the entire 16 years we've had it. This place only works on classics...this pinto is not a rocket ship. Why is this so hard!? I'm frustrated, and that's an understatement. Can someone cheer me up about this? Where do we draw the line in the sand and take it somewhere else? HELP!

caravan3921

Good idea, and would if I could, but doesn't appear to be sold in my immediate vicinity; the closest is an hour round trip. But ethanol free is definitely timely a very good suggestion, especially on older engines. The government Clean Air Act pushes the ethanol for cleaner emissions. I'm learning.....(there's a gorgeous fire red '78 pinto on eBay, reserve not met yet, or you can buy it now at $12,000. 107,000 miles. One owner, guess it was a dealer demo car. Sure is pretty....sigh...

davidpinto

theres a gas station near me that sells 90 octane nonethanol .thats all i have put in mine the last 6 years ,no issues.i put a kit in the carb last year just to see what it looked like inside.it was good to go.it's worth the 20 cent more a gallon to me.     
D BARHAM

caravan3921