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1978 Squire wagon 6 Cly
Date: 03/08/2021 10:44 am
Wanted - Offenhauser intake for 2.8l (6097DP)
Date: 01/28/2019 05:15 pm
78 pinto wagon

Date: 03/03/2020 01:07 pm
78 Cruising Wagon at Mecum Chattanooga

Date: 09/02/2021 08:21 am
Misc pinto parts 71-73 2.0
Date: 05/05/2020 11:56 pm
1976-1980 A/C condensor

Date: 09/21/2020 10:43 pm
Pinto Wagon
Date: 05/25/2018 01:50 pm
13" Style Steel Trim Rings

Date: 10/09/2020 10:35 pm
Many Parts Listed Below
Date: 04/20/2018 11:15 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1971 coil spring thoughts

Started by Tonycando, March 30, 2015, 12:02:26 PM

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Pintosopher

As informative as this inquiry is to Eaton, and their response, The question begs:  What kind of use will the car be exposed to ? Aside from the physical criteria of the dimensions, Will the car be exposed to "sporting driving" or just OEM stock usage. My '72 racer has cut Mustang II V8 springs and it will rearrange your dental work over bot dots as I discovered when I street drove it. I regularly used a Kidney belt going to Autocross events.
If compromised street/sport driving is needed, then a Progressive wound spring would be ideal, but again this can be a ride height paradox for full travel off the Bump Stops. A 71-73 Pinto had two engine options (1.6L & 2.0L) and of course whether or not A/C was present. The 74-up had 2.0L (74 only) ,  2.3L , and in 75 a 2.8L v6.  Keeping in mind that cutting springs increases the rate, you open a can of worms on driving comfort.
As a comparison, My 84VW GTI had Eibach springs and Koni Sport Adj struts, as a "combo"  from a performance retailer. After complaints from the wife , I found that the car was riding on the bump stop rubbers and all of the tight wound coils were compressed at rest. I had just enough give in the springs and Bump stops to stop the tire from shredding on the fender flares. A long correspondence with a Koni engineer in the USA didn't solve it so I bought H&R sport springs and raised the car to only a 1/2" lower than stock. Since this wasn't a Coilover strut arrangement, the spring was the only option to restore functionality.
Lesson learned, decide what you want and consult the pros first , or read up a bunch and find a lift to work out your suspension travel issues all the way, Before you buy Springs and Shocks.

Pintosopher, always a student of the Hard Knocks, but I'm learning
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

72DutchWagon

I did some more searching on site on the 71-73 coil springs, and ran into this post http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=7218.msg42906#msg42906 by Oldkayaker, and got more confused, he states other free lengths for 71-73 and 74-80 coil springs.

Time to call in the professionals, I emailed the following text to EATON Detroit spring;

Dear Sir or Madam,

I'm writing this because there seems to be no information on the Internet about the proper suspension measurements of 71-73 Ford Pinto's.
There is ton's of information on 74-80 Pinto's, and out of ignorance, lot's of people are installing 74-80 coil springs into earlier Pinto's. I believe that is completely wrong and even outright dangerous.
There is a growing active community interested in all sorts of Pinto's, look for instance at fordpinto.com. My project is presented there under the name 72DutchWagon.
It would be in the interest of all of the community if a reputed company like yours could may'be take a look at your manufacturer blue prints and come up with the correct (and safe!) unweighted coil spring height numbers for 71-73 Ford Pinto's.
I'm not asking to reveal any trade secrets, but a few numbers would help a lot of us Pinto fans to be more aware of the differences between 71-73 Pinto's and 74-80 Pinto's.
I will of course make sure that a topic on fordpinto.com will be adressing this issue.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation, if this is not possible than thanks for your time reading this mail.

And got this answer;

Geert,

Very good request. The 71-73 Pinto front coil springs are much lighter springs than the 74- and up springs.

While the ID's are pretty much the same, the wire diameter is smaller and the spring rates are lighter and free height is less for the 71-73 springs vs. later years.

Depending on what 74 - 78 spring was used on a 71-73 Pinto the front would raise between 1.75 inches to as much as 3-inches over factory height.

Our part number for the 71-72 without factory air conditioning is MC1706. With factory a/c the part number is MC522.

For all 1973 Pinto's our part number is MC522.

I hope this helps everyone on the forum. Now who else do you know who we can help?


Thank You
Mike

Tonycando

Quote from: 72DutchWagon on March 30, 2015, 02:23:00 PM
Did you find this old post from 71Hanto; http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dea24cc5627937cac7a8c90ce80ce415&topic=7913.msg56786#msg56786
It describes the difference in front spring length between 71-73 and 74 later Pinto's.
I'm guessing I'm having the same sort of problem with a previous owner presumably having changed the springs for standard 74 and later length ones.


That was a good read thanks,sand I did find that PST has front end kits for the 71.

72DutchWagon

Did you find this old post from 71Hanto; http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dea24cc5627937cac7a8c90ce80ce415&topic=7913.msg56786#msg56786
It describes the difference in front spring length between 71-73 and 74 later Pinto's.
I'm guessing I'm having the same sort of problem with a previous owner presumably having changed the springs for standard 74 and later length ones.

Tonycando

Also does anyone know a good source for ball joints and tie Rod ends for this 71
Thanks

Tonycando

Quote from: amc49 on March 30, 2015, 12:13:46 PM
Cutting springs makes them act like stiffer springs FYI, but cut just a little and probably OK.

If trans and scattershield hollow too not nearly enough weight there. Don't even think of cutting until car fully weighted.................

Complete trans no flywheel so I'll add another 50 lbs and see,but I got a feeling it won't make that big of a differance

amc49

Cutting springs makes them act like stiffer springs FYI, but cut just a little and probably OK.

If trans and scattershield hollow too not nearly enough weight there. Don't even think of cutting until car fully weighted.................

Tonycando

Hollowed out motor and cyl heads trans and scatter shield with 150 lbs sitting on the motor my car is 1" from the top of travel so I'm guessing someone must have put some stout springs in my car.
No shocks in it also but what are you thoughts on this,would you start cutting a little coil off to try and bring it down .

Thanks all

Tony