Mini Classifieds

1970-1973 Gas Tank/Blue Dash
Date: 02/07/2019 11:57 pm
WANTED Hood Prop Rod
Date: 01/17/2017 02:47 pm
'79 4 speed manual shifter needed
Date: 07/30/2018 04:32 pm
Need 77 or 78 Cruising Wagon Speedometer Tachometer Assembly
Date: 06/24/2020 06:12 am
1978 hatch back

Date: 11/29/2019 03:18 pm
Wanted: Oil Breather F0ZZ6A485A "87-8 from 2.3L Turbo
Date: 08/06/2021 02:23 pm
Looking for a 1980 windshield
Date: 07/30/2020 04:51 pm
Need flywheel for 73 2.0 engine.
Date: 10/05/2017 02:26 pm
Pinto sales literature / magazine ads/ owners manuals
Date: 03/21/2017 07:47 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,670
  • Online ever: 2,670 (Today at 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 502
  • Total: 502
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

'74 Wagon Project (Now with link to photos)

Started by Poison Pinto, April 29, 2004, 10:57:13 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Poison Pinto

DAY 14 (August 2): Okay, had I worked "straight through" this would be the end of the second week of progress on my car (and I'd probably be farther along than I am, too  ;D). As it is, it's been a couple months. Such is the nature of a hobby. I didn't do too much today since it was after a long, hot day at work, but I still did a little.

I disassembled the rear leaf springs so that all that is still hanging ( >:() is the central mounting spring. I found that one of the springs on the driver's side was broken (the "split" one that goes around the grease zerk). The rubber parts were junk. Looks like I'll need to order some new rear spring sets to get the rear end back together.

I sanded and filled the medallion mounting holes, antenna holes, and a few small rust spots with Bondo and then smoothed everything down. I'll use mesh backing on the larger rusted out areas when I Bondo those. I doubt I'll find "stock" panels, so the next step will be to have sheet metal panels fabricated to panel out the back of the wagon. And that'll be it on the body work!

So, "two weeks" in...how far to get back out on the road?

Body:
1) Locate grille (or cast a replica);
2) Bondo rust and mounting holes;
3) Fabricate panels for windows;
4) Sand, primer, and paint.

Interior:
1) Recarpet;
2) Replace small detail parts;
3) Reupholster front seats;
4) Install an aftermarket steering wheel.

Mechanical:
1) Locate transmission;
2) Install fuel cell and remote battery holder in rear of car;
3) Replace leaf springs;
4) Replace brake lines and pads;
5) Install 302, trannsmission; 8" rear end; exhaust.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

losin sux

....good help is hard to sire.........Funniest darn line I have heard in years!!!!!!!!
77 HB 2.3 C3 3.40

Poison Pinto

DAY 13 (June 24): After 2 weeks of bad weather followed by a month of a bad back, I finally got back to work on the Pintos. I did mostly cosmetic work on True Blue. I replaced the broken grille with the  grille from the '74, put on a few interior knick-knacks such as an interior door latch handle from the '74 and rounded chrome lock caps from my '84 F150. I sprayed all the latches with penetrating spray. Now my doors shut with the flick of a finger and I don't have to do squats to pop the hood. Just a squeeze and it pops open. The "major" work was removing the tail light assembly and beating the dent out of the rear quarter panel. The only downside was that I knocked a Bondo patch loose just above the tailpipe.  >:(  But that's okay, I can reBondo that. In short, True is ready for a new paint job! Yay!

Next I moved to Poison Pinto. I removed most of the remaining trim pieces. My 2 youngest kids wanted to help, so they got the joyous task of sanding the hood and front fenders with 80 grit paper and sanding blocks (and yes, I did go back and (re)do the sanding after they decided they'd rather search my toolbox and use my tools to dig in the dirt. Good help is so hard to sire  :-\ In the end, Poison is also ready for her new paint job.

I played around "test fitting" the 302 in the engine bay to see how much room I'd have for incidentals such as the A/C system. I think there will be plenty of room, especially if I move the battery location to the back. I do know that it won't go in as easily as the 2.3 came out. Specifically, I'll probably not be able to drop in the engine/tranny as an assembly and I'll have to remove the harmonic balancer. I was able to pull the 2.3 and tranny together and didn't have to remove any parts or accessories from the engine to lift it out. Of course, since I'm dealing with a larger engine, that's really no surprise.

While doing so, I took a good look at the engine mounts (the ones bolted to the car frame). With so much discussion of what to use and what's available, I thought I'd take a look at workaround possibilities. Here's what I've discerned: fabricating a bracket that would accept a 302 mount for a Ford F150 (with a "vertical" pin) would be a simple fabrication for those with the ability to cut, bend, drill, and weld metal stock or who know someone who can do those things. I will take some measurements and design a template as soon as I get a chance.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

(June 12) Not sure whether to count this as a "work" day on my Pinto or not.

Went to the salvage yard to get a starter for my '92 Tempo (with a remarkably familiar 2.3L engine). Casually asked about manual trannys that would bolt up to a 302 besides the T-5. Of course, the guy wanted to know what it was going in. Eventually I explained the project to him. He says, "Oh. We just got a Pinto wagon in a couple days ago. Want to look at it?"

Duh.  ::)

It's a '72 blue wagon with a 4-speed manual (I didn't pop the hood, so engine size = unknown). There's a tiny bit of surface rust bubbling, but nothing as major as what's on my car. The grille is shot, the interior's complete, but probably shot, there's a good-size crumple on the rear passenger's corner.

I bought the teardrop mirrors to put on my car. And they told me that I could buy the whole car for $200. They don't figure anyone will want to buy parts off it. In fact they said they joked about that when they picked it up.

Crap. I have the money, but no place to put it. I want the doors and fenders just to minimize the body work I'll have to do on mine. Those parts will cost more than the $200, so I'll probably wind up buying the car and parting what I want.

[Edit] Following the results of my poll (seeing as how the blue wagon's 2.0L engine runs quite nicely), I have decided *not* to part the blue wagon, but rather to keep it in mostly original trim. I'm planning to tint the windows and the interior work won't be NOS or restoration, but the body will maintain the stock wagon appearance...including the roof rack (shudder  :-\). I'll repaint it its original metalic blue.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

Here's the inspiration for my project: The Hot Wheels "Poison Pinto."

I have both the redline and blackwall versions of the original release casting.

Also, I have updated my photo website http://www.geocities.com/mopac_fan/poison_pinto/index.html. Just go to the bottom and click on the "Page Two" link.

I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

straw boss

You might try stangparts.com.  They are located in Georgia.
They have a few T5s that range from $300 for a four cylinder trans to $1250 for a brand new trans.
'80 Sedan, 2.3, EFI, Electromotive TEC3, 75 shot N2O, Esslinger Alum. D port head, 5 speed, 3.55, 15x7 Mustang "10 hole" rims.  Continual project.

Poison Pinto

Hmmm...no T-5s close. I could get a rebuilt one in Springfield, MO., for $950. Add $150+ in expenses to go there and back and I *might* save $100. I'll just have to keep checking the site and jump as soon as I find one nearby.

Of course, if I could find a yard that would be willing to ship it to me, I could probably save a bundle, but I don't know if any salvage yards do that.

Oh, yeah, the rear ends on the search are running from $75 to $125. The local yard quoted me $325 to $350.  :o

God, I miss being able to go to U-Wrench It in KC! Pay $1 to go in, you pull it yourself, parts are super cheap (i.e. $100 for a complete engine).

Thanks for the web addy.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

78pinto

i just sold a 5 liter T5 for $400 Canadian, thats about all you get for them here used.
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Glassman

Hmmmm.... the yard I bought a turbo engine from wanted $450.00 for a T-5.

Go here http://car-part.com/index.htm and search for yourself. Thats where I found the 8" Im going to install. Has 3.55 gears even.


Poison Pinto

Took the day off work for a dentist appointment. In the mean time, I went out to the salvage yard to get price quotes on the drive train parts I need (T5 tranny and 8" M-II rear end).

The salvage yard had neither in stock or available through their car parts locating network.  :'(  Moreover, the salvage yard said a T5 would run $1200 with exchange!  :o I checked at the auto parts store. A reman T5 is $1252 with exchange. Hmmm...is it worth an extra $52 for a reman over a salvage yard pull?  ::)

Duh!  ;D

The salvage yard did have an 8.8" rear end, so I may wind up going that route.

The King Cobra motor mounts are $11 and change each from the parts store, so that's not bad.

I checked into having my seats done up in black leather at an upholstery shop. After the laughter subsided when I told him they were for a '74 Pinto wagon, he dropped a $800 to $900 bombshell. A bit more than I was expecting, but I want the car right. I'll do a bit more price shopping on those....
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

DAY 12 (June 5): Finished unbolting the rear door catch. I pulled out the lock, a simple procedure once the gate is open. Guess it's time to head to the salvage yard to get a working replacement lock with a key. I then pulled the chrome rear bumper shell so I can take it to work and put it on the press to straighten it out. I finished off my "work day" on the car by sanding down the rest of the rear 2/3 of the body work that's up on jackstands. I still need to sand the front fenders, hood and interior.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

DAY 11 (June 4): FINALLY! I decided I had enough looking at the back axle lying on the ground but still connected to the springs, which in turn were still connected to the car. They were taunting me, "You can't get us! You can't get us! Nah nah nee nah nah! You can't get us!"

With trusty hammer and hacksaw in hand, I knocked off the brake drums and sawed through the tops of the U-bolts. After about 5 minutes, the first one popped free with a loud bang. It took about 5 minutes of steady, patient sawing on each bolt. Each one gave with a loud bang, and each one spread about an inch when it gave.

I used the hammer to beat the newly fabricated J-bolts aside. I removed the emergency brake cable from the retainers in the transmission tunnel, and I cut through the hydrolic brake line because I intend on replacing all the brake lines anyway (well, I guess now I have to...at least on the back  ;D).

I played around trying to unbolt the rear hatch locking mechanism as suggested in straw boss's door hinge thread. The 7/16" wrench fits the bolts, but it takes a bit of time to work the bolts.  I also had to use a larger box wrench with the handle shimmed up on the back bumper in order to lift the rear hatch enough to get my other wrench on the bolts. I loosened the bolts, but felt more like typing an update than spending another hour or so tinkering around. I will probably just play around with them again tomorrow evening.

Until then, happy motoring.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

Quotewhat other pinto hw were there?  were there alot?

The panel van Pinto wagon is the only HW casting I'm aware of. And the "Flying Colors" (Green with either redlines or black sidewalls), "Superchromes" (Chrome with black sidewalls and maybe a few with redlines), and "The Thing" (Blue with black sidewalls) are the only releases of that casting I know of.

QuoteWouldn't it work as well to just put the unlit candle against the hot bolt?  I would think the wax would still melt and find it's way into the threads.

In most instances it would, but this is the horizontally mounted bolt that runs through the front spring mounting hanger, so it's a looooong bolt and there's the rubber spring mount in there, so I highly doubt it would. I think, in all honesty, now that the entire rear-end and springs are on the ground and connected to the car only by the front spring mounts on either side, I can hacksaw through the top of the U-bolts and use a hammer and chisel to force the cut bolts to the side of the axle and drop them down through the plate.

The bad part about that is that it resigns me to pretty much using the old springs unless I cut through the mounting bolts as Glassman did on his wagon.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

straw boss

Quote from: Poison Pinto on June 02, 2004, 09:53:43 PM
Unfortunately, I couldn't effectively position the lit candle above the nut (located in a very small area between the car body and frame). I don't doubt the technique works...just not for that particular place on a Pinto :'(
Might be a dumb question, but.....Wouldn't it work as well to just put the unlit candle against the hot bolt?  I would think the wax would still melt and find it's way into the threads.
When you PM'd me about this technique, this is what I was picturing.
Good luck.
Joe
'80 Sedan, 2.3, EFI, Electromotive TEC3, 75 shot N2O, Esslinger Alum. D port head, 5 speed, 3.55, 15x7 Mustang "10 hole" rims.  Continual project.

skrach

lol... Do i have itlol i didnt even notice that typo lol....    yeah i have both the "thing, and poison pinto, i also have the shutout johnny lightning dragster..  but that one is a new manufactured car..  but i have the 2 old hw's  thanx for the info i was ust wondering if u had them lol   what other pinto hw were there?  were there alot?
1971 Ford Pinto Sedan. Original CA Car. Root Beer Brown. but wont be that color for long. Tired of the poop brown reputation. haha

Poison Pinto

DAY 10 (June 2): Got off work early today, so I had plenty of time to tinker with the Pinto. I pulled the exhaust out from the back since it was just lying there after removing the engine. I also pulled off the drive shaft which was also just lying there connected only to the differential.

I attempted to remove the rear-end/springs again, this time using a technique described in the July issue of Car Craft. Using my propane torch to heat the mount bolts as hotly as possible, I then attempted to drip candle wax onto the bolt threads. Supposedly, capilary action will draw the hot wax into the nut. After it cools, the wax will act as a lubricant that will assist in removing the stuck nut. Unfortunately, I couldn't effectively position the lit candle above the nut (located in a very small area between the car body and frame). I don't doubt the technique works...just not for that particular place on a Pinto :'(

If you haven't seen it, the July Car Craft is worth a look (if only at the local library) simply because they outline building an engine and use a 302 for illustration purposes, including some specs for the engine.

After that, I took a putty knife and began removing 30-years worth of grease-oil-dirt cake from the engine compartment and front-end running gear.

Still, I had daylight left (something I'm not used to!), so I sanded down the driver's side of the car using 80 grit sandpaper and a rubber 3M sanding block.

That pretty much completed my day, and even though I only did a few minor things with the car, I can see a big difference in where I am with the progress.

At this point, my goals are to have the car running by the end of summer (I figure it will really be much sooner). The paint and interior work can be done at my leisure once it's running, but I hope before the weather turns cold (and once again, I figure it will really be sooner).
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

Quotehey poison do i have the hotwheels car of the poison pinto?  just wondering...

Do *you* have it? I honestly can't say....  ;D

However, I have 2 of the Hot Wheels Poison Pintos; one redline and one black wheel. Both are the green car with the yellow graphics. I originally was thinking of blanking out the windows and running the graphics all the way up the side like on the HW car, but decided against it. I'll just heavily tint the back side windows and keep the graphics mainly on the quarter panel.

I do want an engine sticking out of the hood like the HW car. Obviously, it won't be as overstated, but Weiand makes an intake that increases the engine's total height and will give the car the basic look with dual carbs.

I'll take a picture of my HW cars and post them sometime.

HW also made the Poison Pinto casting in a chrome version and in a Marvel Comics scheme that was blue with, I believe, "The Thing" graphics on it.

The Poison Pinto was one of my favorite HW castings from my childhood. When I saw this wagon sitting in a field, I decided to pursue ownership with the intent of customizing it to resemble the HW car.

DAY 9 (May 31): Finished pulling the engine/tranny, which took all of 10 minutes. Did some piddle work readying the car for the next step: bodywork.

As I've said earlier, I won't get much more done mechanically on the wagon until I have some expendable $$$ to pick up the tranny and rear end. So now I'll sand down the interior and exterior in preparation for the new paint job.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

skrach

hey poison do i have the hotwheels car of the poison pinto?   just wondering...
1971 Ford Pinto Sedan. Original CA Car. Root Beer Brown. but wont be that color for long. Tired of the poop brown reputation. haha

Poison Pinto

DAY 8 (May 30): Disconnected the engine and transmission mounts as well as all the wires, cables, and hoses that run between the car and the engine and transmission. Pulled the engine/transmission forward in the car about 6". The fan is up to the front frame crossmember and the front of the bell housing is up to the axle. It took me about 3 hours to do that, which was good time, in my opinion. I gave it a break at that point because I'm not in any rush to get the engine/tranny back in. It'll be two weeks to a month before I get the T5 tranny that's going in. I'll readjust my hoist chain and pull the engine/transmission out, tilting it back as I go tomorrow.

If you've done an engine swap in a Pinto, this will all sound familiar. If you haven't done one yet, but are planning to do one, this information may be of use for you.

For all the alleged design problems in the back half of Pintos, the front end/engine compartment is remarkably well designed for the shade-tree mechanic. It's almost as if the Ford designers *knew* that the car would be serviced at some point. And worked on in less than ideal conditions, at that. As long as you have the car on jack stands at least a foot off the ground, the bolts are easily accessible—even the bolts for the exhaust pipe at the manifold—something I'm not used to when "under the hood!" While I could have loosened the bottom nut on the exhaust pipe connector at the manifold, I chose to lift the engine and support it with blocks and jacks to gain easier access to this nut.

While speaking of exhaust, my car is a '74 model manufactured in May, 1974. The exhaust line has the factory setup. It does not have a catalytic converter. I relate this information because I read a thread a while back asking about what years had the converters.

This is the first engine pull I've done where I've removed the front fenders. I must say, I like it much better this way! I get in closer to the work, saving my back and being able to apply more torque on the hardware. Plus, when I crawl around underneath, there's more light. Oh, I didn't have nearly as much dirt dropping down into my face, and I didn't knock my noggin once getting under and out from under the car, either. I highly suggest anyone doing an engine pull go ahead and remove the fenders.

The radiator pulls out normally and easily, but to get the A/C cooling grid out required removing the hood latch mechanism and central grille brace, disconnecting the 3/4" nuts on the A/C hoses and sliding the grid down and out under the car. It's not a big deal, and you'll figure that out on your own once you get to that point. It's just that I don't like taking a bunch of extra parts off a car to get to the parts I need to remove. You can disconnect the A/C compressor and it's mounting bracket from the engine block and push it to the side, clearing room to do other chores around the engine block. I also suggest removing the battery seat, taking advantage of the fact it is bolted and not welded on.

Everything else about the engine/tranny pull is extremely straight forward. So, if you've done an engine pull on any rear-wheel-drive (front engine) car, this should be a piece of cake. If you've never done an engine pull before, the Pinto is an excellent car model to cut your teeth on; just find a manual that details the general removal steps and follow them. If you can't find a Pinto (or Mustang II) manual, any Ford manual for vehicles from the 70's and early 80's will have the same steps—even one for F-series trucks (these will be the easiest to locate since the trucks are still common on the road and auto parts stores keep the manuals in stock).

Until next time, happy motoring.  8)
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Glassman

The rust isnt that bad. Looks like the cowl area is in good shape.  When the first photos were downloading I started to miss my green 76 MPG wagon. I dont care for the 77 and up front ends too much.  

Thanks for the pics it helps put a "face" with the words. Keep up the good work!

Poison Pinto

This is a rough (very rough) mock up of what the finished car will look like.

As I've stated earlier, it's based on an old Hot Wheels car. The car will have the alloy 5-spoke factory rims instead of hub caps.

I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

QuoteBTW, is it my imagination, or does the hood show signs of an engine fire?

Sure looks that way in the photos, so I ran outside just now and looked. I guess it was the lighting/cheapo camera I used that made the one side look so dark. Actually, the underside of the hood has a pretty uniform brownish-rust color. No carbon. A little white towards the back of the hood indicates perhaps some higher-than-normal heat, but I can't see any signs of actual fire anywhere in the engine compartment.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

claudermilk

Quote from: Poison Pinto on May 27, 2004, 10:04:42 PM
After the door panels, I moved on to the dash. I removed the gauges with no problem. I was amused by the "wiring" on the back of the gauges being similar to a computer motherboard. Ooooh, so high tech!

Have you seen a newer car's dash wiring?  I was kind of surprised how similar the Pinto's dash pack looked to my '95 Probe's.

BTW, is it my imagination, or does the hood show signs of an engine fire?

Poison Pinto

PHOTOS!

http://www.geocities.com/mopac_fan/poison_pinto/index.html

Not a lot of shine. Plenty of rust.

At least now you have visual reference to what I've been commenting on.

If the "data transfer has been exceeded," sorry. I guess just try again later.... Stupid Yahoo/Geocities.  ::)

Until later, happy motoring.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Poison Pinto

QuoteWell... I wish I had the ability to cut metal with fire. Instead I had to use an angle grinder with a cut off disk.

Me too. I'm going to call a welder to bring his service truck to my house and cut the bolts for me...provided I can't get the front mounts undone.

QuoteI had to cut all the u bolts off. They were bent and the plates are bent upward also.

Hmmm....you sure you're not working on my car? ;D

DAY 7 (MAY 27): Wow...two days in a row to work on the ol' Pinto! Today's chore was to remove all the interior plastic panels in order to sand and prep the interior steel for a medium gloss black coat of paint. The plastic panels along the back half unscrewed easily, although I must say that whoever tried to put the 9" speakers in the back had to do possibly the worst installation job in the history of the automobile.

Then I moved on to the door panels. Which made the song lyrics "What was I thinking?" keep running through my mind as I wondered who stamped their seal of approval on the door panel design. If you've never removed a Pinto's interior door panels, DON'T! The vinyl is wrapped around a stiff cardboard backing held in place by archaic metal clips in the door. No matter how carefully you attempt to wiggle/slide/pry the door pannel loose, the cardboard tears away. While I can still use my door panels, I'm thinking of alternate solutions because I really don't want to get into dying the vinyl black to match the car's soon-to-be interior color.

After the door panels, I moved on to the dash. I removed the gauges with no problem. I was amused by the "wiring" on the back of the gauges being similar to a computer motherboard. Ooooh, so high tech! I popped out the air duct vents before proceding to the dash pad from underneath the dashboard. The (hidden, barely accessible) locations of a few of these nuts gave me pause to consider the Pinto as Canada's grand joke on the U.S. (mine was manufactured in the Great White North, as I suppose many/most/all were). I managed to get the driver's side half of the dash pad unbolted before it became too dark to find the nuts.

I do plan to post the promised pictures sometime this weekend. And, as I posted yesterday, will pull the engine and tranny Sunday.

Until next time, happy motoring.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Glassman

Well... I wish I had the ability to cut metal with fire. Instead I had to use an angle grinder with a cut off disk.

I removed the leaf springs with the axle attached last night. The passenger side front bushing bolt would not come out. So I ended up cutting it into 3 pieces. Wow,  my plastic garage smelled like burnt rubber after that!

Today I removed the springs from the axle. I had to cut all the u bolts off. They were bent and the plates are bent upward also. The drivers side plate has 2 rips in the oval hole where the bend is. Im going to weld them up.

I just used up another roll of film and hopefully it will get developed on Friday. I have pics of what I described above.

Have fun pulling the engine and trans. My 4 cyl. and 4 speed came out quick and easy.

Keep posting about your progress.  ;)


78pinto

they can also bend from overtightening! (yes iv'e done it)
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Poison Pinto

QuoteOh yeah the pipe is six feet long and fits over a 1/2 " drive perfectly.

Yeah, I'll have to get one from work. That's one of the benefits of working where I do...lots of scrap pipe. I did notice that the ends of the U-bolts bend outward right under the plate. Not sure if that's by design or because the springs have sat on the ground/blocks/something hard at some point....

So, anyway. Because I know you've all been waiting with baited breath....

DAY 6 (May 26): Even though I worked from 6:30 am to 7:30 pm, the boss still left me an hour or so of daylight for my own use (how nice of him  :P). I needed to drain the gas tank because I am sure the car isn't going to run on what was in it. I decided to pull the tank and fill tube. I drained the tank into an empty gas can so I can dispose of the rusty muck that was in it in our disposal tank at work. Too many cats/dogs/kids around to leave car fluids sitting about. Then there's the environment.

Now there's a bit more room to crawl around under the back end of the car and glare at the stupid, rusty, bent spring bolts. Glaring always helps. Hitting things with heavy objects also helps, but I refrain from that while under the vehicle. So glaring will have to do...until I can get a long-arse cheater pipe from work.

I'll be getting down and dirty, pulling the engine and transmission this weekend (probably Sunday).

Until then, happy motoring.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

Glassman

I have a 2" OD pipe that I use on stubburn bolts. It loosens the nut or breaks the bolt. I did have to cut a couple bolts that had rounded heads or nuts.

Oh yeah the pipe is six feet long and fits over a 1/2 " drive perfectly.

Im starting to work on my Pintos rear today. I staeted soaking the bolts a few days ago. I got my springs from JCWhitney for $138.00 shipped in a few days. They look good.