Next year I want to start a project car after my kid gets out of college. (no money now!) My goal is to make something great in the twisties. At the same time make it for high speed touring with reasonable mileage for traveling. Maybe some autocross too!
My problem...The XR4ti has the suspension system front & rear to meet my requirements, but I am not fond of the looks. A lowered Pinto would really look better and be different, but the suspension, brakes, etc leave a lot to be desired.
I was thinking of transplanting an aluminum V6 in either vehicle choice. Setting it back as far as possible. Stick shift preferred. Maybe a V6 from a crashed 2007 Mustang.
GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS & IDEAS Thanks in advance.
The Merkurs are unique little cars... and some cosworth sierra body parts make a WORLD of differance in how they look.
They have 4 wheel independant suspension but the transmission and read diff are not the strongest in the world.
A pinto can be made to handle VERY well... for what it is.
I think the new mustang V6 is still an iron block.
If it were me... the solution would be easy.
Take a pinto and the engine out of the Merk... slap on a well thought out suspension... and shock people on the back roads and track days.
Pass them in a pinto with the traditional pinto 4 banger. :evil:
Jim
i agree with fomogo. it's sweeter when they say. "what do you have under the hood?" and then you show 'em.
they usually can't believe it
I agree a Turbo Pinto is a tough competitor. They're capable of embarrasing V8's in the stoplight grand prix, and keeping up with all but the MOST hardcore street cars in the twisties. All with what amount to subtle mods, using junkyard parts.
The 4.0 V6 from a late mustang is a good thought too. Several have pondered the supercharged 3.8 from the T-bird SC as well.
What do you think about putting an XR4ti independent rear suspension under the Pinto? If I don't drop the clutch off the line, the rear end should take the V6 or turbo 4. The Pinto solid rear axle with the short wheel base really STEPS OUT when hitting a slight bump on a curve.
OK, so if I go with the turbo 4, I guess I would be better off finding a T-bird engine & T5 trans than the Merk. Yes?
NEXT QUESTION....If I go with using a Pinto, Turbo 4, T5 trans, and Merkur rear suspension. WHAT YEAR PINTO? I like the 71-73 for weight and looks. What year has the best front suspension? Are drop spindles available?
The '74 up shares components with the MustangII, giving you a wide selection of aftermarket parts. Any Pinto can be converted to 71-73 looks. You'll find it easier to install the 2.3 into the '74 up as the radiator mount was modified for the larger engine. If I were doing it, I'd go with a '74 up chassis, a Fox body Mustang 8.8 posi axle.(It's exactly 1" wider) a 4,or maybe 6 point cage. An 88 T-bird Turbo engine with a Merkur wiring harness, and a t-5 trans. Remeber, that the Merkur rear is a strut type, that would require building strut mounts Where there are none. A live axle car, even with a short wheelbase, can be made to handle quite well. After all Pintos were used VERY successfully as road race cars in the '70s. Just remember that the almost square footprint of the Pinto makes it eager to change direction. Instability is the hallmark of manouverability. Just ask your local Fighter Pilot! This instabiity makes the Pinto a handful at the dragstrip too, just ask the V8 guys!
If you have a line on a Merkur, buy it. If you have a line on a Pinto, buy it. The motor out of a Merkur is the same motor as the earlier Turbo Coupes, T-3 Turbo. The Merkur has a better Valve cover also IMO. The only down side to the Merk motor is it has the In-Line Intake. The 87-88 TC's have the better Intake and the Large VAM. Were as the Merk and the early TC's have the Small VAM and In-Line Intake. I've done the Turbo 4cyl swap Two times and it is easy. Motor and Tranny Mounts are the same, that is if you buy a Pinto 4 spd, and are using a 4cyl Mustang T-5 tranny. From reading the post so far, I am assuming (I hate to do that) you are going with a T-5. Not to mention the Merkur will have a Non-Intercooled Computer in it so you dont have to get that right away, well untill you get the LA3 or LB3 computer (87-88 TC) Stick or Auto (respectfully).
I have done the swap to 2 / 80 Pinto Wagons and my Merkur harness had the female plug end of the Pinto's male plug end. So all I had to do is repin a few of the wires in the Pinto harness. Plus one more good thing is there are so many people out here who have done the Turbo Pinto, for questions you have alot of people out here who have done it before so you can ask people of there opinion to see exactally how you want to do stuff before you spend the money to buy the wrong part/parts or time installing the wrong part/parts.
Before you make a concrete conclusion look at turbopinto.com and turboford.net. Do some research and then make your decision. No matter what you decide just remember one thing, this is YOUR car so do what YOU want!
Just my 2¢!
turbowagonman
Quote from: turbowagonman on March 23, 2007, 07:27:24 PM
Before you make a concrete conclusion look at turbopinto.com and turboford.net. Do some research and then make your decision. No matter what you decide just remember one thing, this is YOUR car so do what YOU want!
Just my 2¢!
turbowagonman
AMEN turbowagonman... I think I may have come off against the Merkur... which I'm not. They are unique lil cars.
Quote from: turbowagonman on March 23, 2007, 07:27:24 PM
...Motor and Tranny Mounts are the same, that is if you buy a Pinto 4 spd, and are using a 4cyl Mustang T-5 tranny...
...my Merkur harness had the female plug end of the Pinto's male plug end. So all I had to do is repin a few of the wires in the Pinto harness...
Aren't all the Pinto tranny mounts the same?
Please give details on the harness.
Bill
Quote from: 77turbopinto on March 23, 2007, 10:26:59 PM
Aren't all the Pinto tranny mounts the same?
Please give details on the harness.
Bill
What I am about to post here is just MY OPINION, I believe the Tranny mounts are all the same which is the reason you can switch the Cross Member around to put the slots more to the front of the car or to the rear! Like I said this is just my opinion, I have no concrete evidence to support this except for a tape measure and some time under my '80' Wagon swaping it in either direction. I had to modify the mount by removing the rubber bushing in between the Stud side that goes into the Cross Member and the Side that actually bolts to the tranny. I just bolted it together so in a sense it is "Solid" mount because there is no rubber bushing to absorb the vibrations. It really doen't really make the car's "Plush Ride" any worse.
As for the Wiring harness, the only thing I had to do was repin some of my Pinto harness to turn on the Sensors, computer relays and so on. I have a Wiring and Vacuum Diagram for an '86' Merkur XR4Ti which is acutally just a Photocopy out of a Repair manual, which I got the copys from GT350R (off of turboford.com) a close freind from my childhood. I also ran seperate relays for my Fuel Pump and Coolling Fan, which I got from J.C. Whitney (Deralie 14" pusher or puller). I just picked up another '86' Merkur today that I am going to part out thios weekend. I bought this car just for the T-3 Turbo and the Valve Cover so I am going to be selling everything else that will work for a Turbo Swap into any car Motor, Computer, Harness, Tranny and so on. The Merkur harness works well due to it being a totally seperate harness all together from the rest of the car. That is why it is such a desireable harness to do the swap into a Pinto.
turbowagonman
I did two turbo swaps with an 86 T/C harness, and I know of others that used the Merkur one, but I have never heard about a Merkur harness female plug that connects into a Pinto harness male plug end.
Which plug on the Pinto harness is this?
QuoteBy turbowagonman
...The 87-88 TC's have the better Intake and the Large VAM. Were as the Merk and the early TC's have the Small VAM and In-Line Intake...
The VAM size only matters that you use it with the ECU that is designed for. Same with injectors and an I/C; they need to all match for best performance and durability.
There are 3 different intakes, they all flow about the same, but the 87/88 upper is the shortest. If it is used, it needs the valve cover from that year too.
Bill
Thanks for all the great comments & information.
My thinking has changed a lot based on your comments. I now think I would like to build a 79-80 lowered Pinto with either the 2.3 turbo or a late model V6. The supporting aftermarket and parts interchangeability with Mustang is better for post 74 as pointed out. I like the idea of just buying lowered spindles, disc brakes, and finding rear rear axles, etc. I think the looks has more room for customization than the Merkur. Different is good in the car world!
My last question for the group. Is the 79 & 80 Pinto front suspension the same as the 74-78? I know the Mustangs changed in 79.
'74-80 is absolutely identical under the skin, mechanically anyways. There are, of course, minor differences in the skin, trim, wiring, and emissions. But essentially they are the same car.
Quote from: 77turbopinto on March 30, 2007, 06:30:38 AM
Which plug on the Pinto harness is this?
Bill
Here are a couple of pics of both harnesses both seperate and together (in that order)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/BS%20Pics/?action=view¤t=P1020755.jpg
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/BS%20Pics/?action=view¤t=P1020756.jpg
turbowagonman
And this connects what to what??
Bill
I had to re-pin the Pinto Wiring harness to relocate the "Trigger Wires" for Key On Engine Off, KOEO (for the ECU, relays and so on) and Key On Engine Running, KOER, for some more of the stuff in the ECU! I cant remember exactally what wires went were, because it was Three years ago. When I got into my second Project Pinto I was scraping the First One so I just transfered both of the harnesses (under Dash & Engine compartment). It was just easier than trying to rack my brain to try to remember what wires went where. Besides I knew the wiring was right the way I had it hooked up. The Plug and Un-Plug thing is just neater looking than doing all kinds of Solderless Connectors/Soldier Joints.
turbowagonman
Quote from: turbowagonman on April 26, 2007, 05:33:09 PM
I had to re-pin the Pinto Wiring harness to relocate the "Trigger Wires" for Key On Engine Off, KOEO (for the ECU, relays and so on) and Key On Engine Running, KOER, for some more of the stuff in the ECU!
turbowagonman
I just got done doing some Shrink Tubing on the harness I going to sell, The wires I had to put the Shrink Tubing on were the "Pins" in the Plug that works with the Pinto Harness. Anyway there is only Four wires to hook that harness to the Pinto Harness, I do have an '86' Merkur Electrical Manual (photo copy's at least) So before I list it on ebay I'll do some research to see what the wires are and make note of it how they plug into the Pinto Harness. When I did both of my 2.3T swaps I ran a stand-alone Relay for my Fuel Pump and had a Thermal Switch on my Radiator with it's own relay also. The reason being was, I din't have to dive into the Merkur Harness that deep!
turbowagonman
"If I don't drop the clutch off the line, the rear end should take the V6 or turbo 4."
It will probably do fine if you follow your own thinking.
" The Pinto solid rear axle with the short wheel base really STEPS OUT when hitting a slight bump on a curve."
For the weight that the rear suspension is handling; yes the rear is sprung a bit stiff. The rear leafs can be dearched and have a few of the leaves removed but only if the remaining leaves are re-tempered. This will give you a much more flexible rear suspension BUT it needs to countered at the front by the use of a more aggressive anti-swaybar/coil spring combo.
any time you lower the car especially at the rear. you need to pay attention to pinion angle too. draw an imaginary line longitudinally through both rear spring eyes forward until it hits the ground. if the point at which this line hits the ground is ahead of the front "axle" then the car will tend to push. if this line hits the ground behind the front "axle" the car will tend to be loose. a lot depends on your driving style and/or the type of track at which the car will be used.
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