AS YOU KNOW THIS IS A NONE INTERCOOLED TURBO. CAN IT BE UPGRADED TO AN INTER COOLER WITHOUT CHANGING THE TURBO
Yes,and it will definately improve performance.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=31&topic=6790.0
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=31&topic=3008.msg32721#msg32721
Bill
BTW: Please stop yelling.
Thank you all for your help. Sorry Bill for writing in capitals hard habit to break.
Today I came across a Merkur XR4TI amongst a buch of cars. It looks complete too. And best of all, I might be able to get it for free!! :o
Now all I need is another Pinto! :P
To get a little more detailed, no you don't HAVE to, but you might WANT to.
As I mentioned in my post, I just swapped the ECU, VAM and installed a FMIC. IMHO if you are keeping the boost to stock levels, an IHI is better for the 2.3. If you plan on 18PSI or more, run the T-3. Keep in mind that with more boost, there is more maintenance.
Bill
Quote from: 77turbopinto on February 21, 2007, 08:03:16 PM
To get a little more detailed, no you don't HAVE to, but you might WANT to.
As I mentioned in my post, I just swapped the ECU, VAM and installed a FMIC. IMHO if you are keeping the boost to stock levels, an IHI is better for the 2.3. If you plan on 18PSI or more, run the T-3. Keep in mind that with more boost, there is more maintenance.
Bill
Truer words were never spoken.Here's a pic of the T3/T4 57 trim I had on my daily driver.It felt so good at 26 pounds that I decided to run it at 30.It felt SOOOOO good that I turned her up to 32.It lasted several days with me beating on it hard.It was a lot of fun,but as you can see everything has it's limits.LOL You can click on the pic to enlarge it.I now have a new and improved turbo.Wonder where it will come apart? WOOO HOOO!
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/CurtisHensley/th_Pinto011.jpg) (http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/CurtisHensley/Pinto011.jpg)
Curtis: OUCH.
You put the "car" in carnage!
Bill
Yeah Bill,I literally exploded the turbo.It was a little costly,but it sure was fun.It even broke the compressor housing.How is Connie liking her car now that it has the turbo on it?We're building a Probe full tilt race car now with a 2.3 Pinto motor.This one is going to be running a BW 80 MM turbo at around 40 -45 pounds of boost and alky fired.I'm rebuilding the Pinto right now,but hope to have it back on the street in April.It should go 10's this time and still be a dependable daily driver.
Kool.
No damage to the car itself I hope.
We have not had Connie's car out yet, still winter up here, but she likes to look at it. If it wern't for winter, I would never get anything done on the cars.
Bill
I apologize in advance if this question has been asked before:
I am convinced that a turbo 2.3 is the way to go, and I'm gathering up parts; I have found a 1986 and a 1988 turbo coupe- both complete running cars. Can you give me some idea which year is a better setup in terms of ease to install and which runs better in normal driving.
tia
mike
I think that the 86 will have a much easier wiring harness to work with. The 88 might have the better ECU and VAM though. Either way its turbo and will be badazz!!! Wait for replies from the vets... they are WAY smarter and have helped me many many times.
Quote from: lugnut on March 08, 2007, 11:24:49 PM
I apologize in advance if this question has been asked before:
I am convinced that a turbo 2.3 is the way to go, and I'm gathering up parts; I have found a 1986 and a 1988 turbo coupe- both complete running cars. Can you give me some idea which year is a better setup in terms of ease to install and which runs better in normal driving.
tia
mike
Well, I'm no expert since I haven't actually done a tc to pinto swap yet, but I am in the middle of prepping an '86 tc motor and have done a fair amount of research on this subject. Guess that makes me an armchair expert! :laugh:
Ease of install really depends on how far you plan on going with your conversion, and how knowledgeable you are. If you plan on babying your ride and never cook the tires, you could get away with using your stock drivetrain, but where's the fun in that? The tc motor will bolt right in, since it is the same block. Fuel lines, engine wiring harness and electronics will need to be merged into the existing wiring. There is a lot of info on this site, as well as on turboford.net.
Since you have an 86 and an 88 t-bird, you already have most of the parts you'll need. If it was mine, this is what I'd do-
Use the '86 motor since it has the Garrett T3 turbo, which responds to more boost better than the '88's IHI.
The '86 should also have the 35# brown top injectors. Not sure if the '88 does or not. If it does, flow all of them and use the best 4.
(EDIT: Sorry, just reread your question and realized you don't have either t-bird yet. I'd go with the '88 if it's the 5-speed model.)
Use the '88's intake and intercooler or go with a front mount. Hood to intake clearance will be a challenge, since it is a tight fit unless you plan on cutting the hood for a scoop. I know that it can be done without cutting the hood by machining some off the upper intake and/or lowering the engine mounts. There is info on this forum.
There is also a clearance issue with the turbo and heater motor in non A/C model Pinto's. You'll also need to relocate your battery and take a hammer or cutting implement to it's former location to get clearance for the outer turbo exhaust flange. Pic's and info are a search away on this forum.
Use the '88's electronics and wiring, assuming that it has the LA3 ECU that came with the 5-speed models.
Rig up a new high pressure line for fuel to the rail. You can use your existing line for return. You'll need an inline fuel pump as well. Don't forget to include an inertia switch in your fuel pump wiring!
Use the 5-speed transmission (assuming that you have one). The transmission mount is close to being the same as the pinto's, but not exact since the T-5 is a little longer. It doesn't look too difficult to modify the mount.
Find yourself an 8" rearend out of a Mustang II (bolts right in) or '67-'69(?) Mustang which requires moving the mounts about an inch.
You'll need to swap out the driveline since the T-5 is longer. I can't remember off hand which one is the best fit, but if I remember correctly one of the Mustang's will work. Right length, after swapping out a u-joint? More research.
Upgrade the brakes so the whoa matches the go. Remember, the stock tc has about twice the hp as a stock Pinto. The '88 tc electronics can deal with about 300 hp worth of air/fuel management so it gives you room to play.
I think that covers the basics. Not exactly a weekend swap, but it is doable. Like I said, it depends on how far you want to go.
If I'm incorrect on any of this information, please correct me. I have not done this conversion...yet, although I am building a kickass motor to do so.
Hes is on the right track with the Mustang drive line. Use a Fox body and it will go right in with no mods. I just did the T5 swap the other day, major difference!!! The tranny mount will just need the holes elongated to fit the T5 into the Pinto... easy!
When choosing between an 86 and 88 ... if they are both the same price and condition...
Personally I would take the 86.
Larger turbo, same longblock, simpler... easier to use wiring harness.
The ECU and vam are the main diff... and the top mount "interheater".
I would be going FMIC so the IC would be useless. The VAM and ECU are cheap on ebay.
It isnt hard to repin the harness for the ECU.
Get the one in the best shape... look for a merkur harness... and have fun with the install.
Jim
Quote from: fomogo on March 09, 2007, 05:30:44 AM
When choosing between an 86 and 88 ... if they are both the same price and condition...
Personally I would take the 86.
Larger turbo, same longblock, simpler... easier to use wiring harness.
The ECU and vam are the main diff... and the top mount "interheater".
I would be going FMIC so the IC would be useless. The VAM and ECU are cheap on ebay.
It isnt hard to repin the harness for the ECU.
Get the one in the best shape... look for a merkur harness... and have fun with the install.
Jim
I agree 100.%
Quote from: DragonWagon on March 09, 2007, 12:53:41 AM
1) Use the '86 motor since it has the Garrett T3 turbo, which responds to more boost better than the '88's IHI.
2) The '86 should also have the 35# brown top injectors. Not sure if the '88 does or not. If it does, flow all of them and use the best 4.
3) Use the '88's intake and intercooler or go with a front mount. Hood to intake clearance will be a challenge, since it is a tight fit unless you plan on cutting the hood for a scoop. I know that it can be done without cutting the hood by machining some off the upper intake and/or lowering the engine mounts. There is info on this forum.
4) There is also a clearance issue with the turbo and heater motor in non A/C model Pinto's. You'll also need to relocate your battery and take a hammer or cutting implement to it's former location to get clearance for the outer turbo exhaust flange. Pic's and info are a search away on this forum.
5) Use the '88's electronics and wiring, assuming that it has the LA3 ECU that came with the 5-speed models.
6) Rig up a new high pressure line for fuel to the rail. You can use your existing line for return. You'll need an inline fuel pump as well. Don't forget to include an inertia switch in your fuel pump wiring!
7) Find yourself an 8" rearend out of a Mustang II (bolts right in) or '67-'69(?) Mustang which requires moving the mounts about an inch.
8) You'll need to swap out the driveline since the T-5 is longer. I can't remember off hand which one is the best fit, but if I remember correctly one of the Mustang's will work. Right length, after swapping out a u-joint? More research.
1) If you are keeping stock boost levels, the IHI is "better", but without an I/C either will do fine.
2) Yes, should be all brown tops. I have been told that the EARLY 86's had greens, but I have not seen any.
3) The 86 through 88 intakes will interchange, less the ACT that you don't need.
4) Having done both, I can say the T-3 is MUCH easier to work with. The IHI sticks out away from the engine further and the W/G actuator will need to be relocated.
5) No, don't use the 88 harness. Trust me, you won't like it. Yes, the LA3 was only in the 88 T/C.
6) I used the stock Pinto lines, but changed the rubber to EFI hose and added the parts needed.
7) You don't need to move the perches on other 8" rears, just modify them. Also, the 67-73 rears are the same and much wider than a Pinto rear. The 64-66 rears are closer to the corret length. Keep in mind that all the 8" Stang rears are 5 lug.
8) The a fox body Mustang shaft will work. I have been told there are 10 different ones, but Ford only offers one length in alum. I have seen people spend a furtune on the "magic" U-joint. The Pinto REAR joint ($20.) has two different size caps; the ones for the driveshaft yoke are smaller, the ones for the axle are larger. Yes, you can u-blot the smaller caps (like the fox body ones) to the rear, but they ae the wrong size and might have a shortened life if used. The Pinto front ones are the same as a Fox body.
Quote from: 2point3turbo on March 09, 2007, 01:28:42 AM
Hes is on the right track with the Mustang drive line. Use a Fox body and it will go right in with no mods. I just did the T5 swap the other day, major difference!!! The tranny mount will just need the holes elongated to fit the T5 into the Pinto... easy!
Slight mod., see #8 above.
I did not post this to put anyone down, but to provide answers and information. There is a lot of mis-information out there when it comes to this topic.
There is a BUNCH of info in the FAQ setcion.
Bill
On the question of brown top injectors...
I have had 84, 2 85s, and an 86.
The early production 85 had green tops, the late production 85 had browntops... and the 86 was browntops.
I believe that 1985 was a changeover for the turbocoupes. I refer to them as 85 and 85 1/2 as I have found a few that has greens and more that have had browns.
Jim
Thank you 2point3turbo, fomogo, and 77turbopinto for chiming in. I was hoping that some of you that have done this swap would put your 2 cents in and correct anything that I didn't have correct! It helps all of us to get a better handle on our conversions.
I am hoping to document my swap once I get into it a bit further. This will be over the next few years! I don't have the time or money to slap it together very quickly, and I want to do it right. I am rebuilding the motor from the ground up, shooting for 300 hp. I'm waiting for the internals to show up so I can send the block and head out for machine work. I'll be taking plenty of pics during the reassembly. I also plan on rebuilding the Garrett T3 as well as the WC T5 transmission.
Again, thank you all for your input. It is invaluable!
Im going to use the 88 TC engine, with a merkur harness, repinned for the LA3 and add the wire for the ACT, and use the T3 turbo from a pre 87 engine, with a header. Hoping to move the oxygen sensor down in the pipe some or at a different angle in the elbow, so i can keep the blower motor and stuff until i can get an AC box to put in. Going for the front mount intercooler as well. The murkur harness is easy to repin, easy to wire up, and doesnt have a ton of extra crap in it that you dont need. The 88 engine has the injectors and the intake and all that good stuff in it already that you really need (due to heighth) I'm opting for a ranger roller cam, too. My car has an 8" rear but im going to go to some 3.55 gears instead of the 3.00's. Using a T5 transmission. The 88 engine will also have a serpintine belt system which i also prefer over the pre 87 engines. Obviously need the large VAM, and browntops wich are both in the 88 TC anyways. Im going to make a new supply line for the fuel, and use the stock return line. Using a walbro 255LPH pump. Just going to try and get a fox stang driveshaft from a junk yard, i dont think i need an aluminum one. You'll need a throttle cable from a TC too. I dont know if one will work from a merkur or mustang. I assume it would but like i said i dont know. Im sure there is info im forgetting, but ive got it in the back of my head. Youve already got lots of great information from everyone, just thought id share my opinion of what i thought would be best, based on what i am personally going to do hopefully this spring.
I used the throttle cable from the Mustang that I got my T5 and driveline, it was an 89.