I have a 1973 1600 stick Pinto with 23,000 original miles. I am now using it as a daily driver and racking up the miles fast. I travel 108 miles a day through the rough & tumble roads of Detroit. I get 29-35 miles per gallon with 80% of my drive on the freeway using BP 87 gas. No spark knocking even under load even with a 195 T-stat. I am surprised of the good gas mileage because the motor really buzzes. It is running somewhere around 3400 RPM at 65 mph. What gear ratios are available that would fit into my existing axle housing? Right now it is a 3:55
2nd question:
I may try taller tires, but that sure would screw up my cornering and only make a slight gear ratio change. If I do, where can I find a selection of stick shift speedometer gears to compensate for the tire diameter change.
Sidenote: Next week I will be adding a NOS electric fan assembly from a Tempo. $23.00 ebay-YES! The fan will hardly ever come on since we are in the cool weather season. That should really help with the motor buzzing all those RPMs. Next will be electronic ignition and a 12 volt coil (Petronix) followed by some distributor curving. I sure would like to approach 35-40 MPG by this spring doing some modifications with minimal cost.
Hello Starliner,
I think the next gear down is a 3.18 in a factory 6.75 rear Pinto pumpkin.
Somebody :stop: me if I have lost my way???
Has been a while since I toyed with the NON 8" rear...
From Pintony
P.S. Do you have any photoss of your 1.6 Pinto...
my list of ratio's for a 6.75 rearend are 3.55,3.40,3.18,3.08 and 2.73 this list excludes ratio's from the ford falcon,maverik, comet and such.i hope this helps :sorry:
If you want to go with electronic dist. , then go to a wrecking yard, and ask for one out of a mid 70's Ford Fiesta. They will drop right in, use a standard Ford ign box, and I got the one I used for $30. I would go with the 3.18 if you don't have alot of hills to go up. As you know, the 1600 is NO powerhouse. You can also get the intake/carb setup off the Fiesta that uses a progressive 2 barrel to get alittle more zip with no mileage loss.
Thanks for all the great information. I will post some pictures later. (need to borrow the company camera!)
I am considering first trying some 92 15" Tempo wheels and machine some hub adapters so the wheels are supported & centered properly. Then I can get increased tire diameter without having the sidewalls too tall. After I get that going I will figure out what to do with the gearing. The 3:18 with the taller tires may be the trick.
I found a very simple online calculator that determines tire sizes & gear ratio engine RPMs.
Here is the link: //http://www.differentials.com/calc.html
Now I am driving about 60-65 mph and really want to be cruising at 75 mph I may need something around 2:73!
Hello starliner
I have a couple of formulas that work very well, what you need are the following elements. rpm, mph, loaded tire radius, & final drive gear ratio.
if you are using a t5 or other trans that uses an od top gear make sure that
you use that value [as .79 od in t5] to get actual ratio.
To get MPH take RPM X loaded tire radius, divided by final gear ratio X 168.
To get RPM take MPH X final gear ratio X 168 divided by loaded tire radius.
This will also help in knowing speedometer errors. Let me know if this helps.
postalpony
Starliner, i have 2:73 and 3:18 sets of gears i would consider trading for your 3:55 gears. Steve
IMHO: Anything taller than a 3.55 with the 1.6 will mean that you won't be able to use 4th gear much. The car won't have the power to move with the taller gears, and that won't help milage. Both my 79's had 2.3 4spd 2.73's and were slugs taking off, and needed to be downshifted at highway speeds all the time (how does yours do now?). Have you thought about going to a 5spd? I never had a 1.6, but I have been told the bells are the same as a 2.0, and a 2.3 bell will bolt to a 2.0 (some mod. needed, but very do-able). If this is true, a 3.55 and the .81 OD will give you a 2.875 final drive in 5th and 4th will be the same as you have now. You might need to go down to 4th often, but you won't have the issues off the line and you will have a choice at higher speeds.
Bill
Thanks for all the responses & gearing offers.
I bought some 15" Tempo wheels and some 225/70-15 tires to start with. It gets me better looking wheels & tires and a wider patch for handling. I wanted to do that anyway. That will put me at 2830 RPMs at 65MPH. That is a lot better than the present 3431 RPM's at 65 MPH. That should net me an 18% to 21% gear reduction.
I will put them on this weekend and see how they perform next week. By the way, the Tempo rims fit perfect including the center hub. Hopefully I will not have any tire clearance issues.
I will use my tach to reference my freeway speeds. Later I will do some exact calculations to determine the percentage of gear reduction from the original speedometer so I can get the distance traveled correct for fuel economy calculations. I heard the original 73 Pinto had A-78-13 tires. Is that true? I need to know that to figure out the original tire diameter that was designed for the speedometer.
Next weekend I will install the electric radiator cooling fan.
I never considered trying front wheel drive rims for fear of excessive back spacing. Please post results of the Tempo rim installation.
According to the shop manual, there were several different tire sizes released for useage in the 1973 Pinto as follows: A78-13, 6.00-13, A70-13, 175-13, 175R-13. Another way to fix the speedometer after a gear/tire change is to use odometer as the calibration point (assumes your speedometer is internally working properly). Take the car to a road marked with mileage signs and drive a good distance to get more accurate readings (say 50 miles). Record the distance traveled by what the mileage markers say and what your odometer says. Divide the odometer distance by the mileage marker distance and multiply the result by the number of teeth on your speedometer gear. The product should be the number of teeth needed to get your speedometer read closer to the real number. Normally the product is not a whole number. If the number is close to xx.5, I round down so that the speedometer reads a little high (helps avoid speeding tickets).
The 15 inch Tempo wheels and tires installed with minimal work! The fronts with P195/65-15 tires went on with no issues. The rears with P225/70-15 required some modifications on the passenger side. I had to grind down the frame protrusion and hammer the inside wheel well in one location. 20 minutes work.
It would look better with smaller tires on the back, but it does what I want from a gearing standpoint. Now it drives nice without revving so much and smoother when I let off the gas. Based on the original tire being an A-78-13 tire I now have a 21% change in gearing! It now cruises nice on the freeway. Next week I will see what mileage I can get. I am trying to add a picture.
Hey Starliner,
I think they look great! Nice lookin` little pony too!
Rex
StarLiner, I have been riding on 225-14's on the back of my wagon for years and I mean to tell you it is like driving on a balloon. I had to make 2" spacers to get my wheels to clear the leaf springs and center in the wheel wells. oh!!! Nice car.
High_Horse
#226
Starliner,
Your little Pinto looks great. Question, you mentioned Tempo wheels, I assume these are rims not hubcaps, you also stated that smaller tires on the back would look better, My question to you is, if you put the same tires on the back as the front would that save any modifying.
Dale
Yes, these are Tempo 15 inch rims, not just hubcaps. Even with smaller tires I think you would need to do the same modifications. But it was very easy to do. The earlier Tempo rims are 14 inch and not as wide. I would guess that these could be installed with no modifications.
Quote from: Starliner on December 02, 2006, 04:41:52 PM
The 15 inch Tempo wheels and tires installed with minimal work! The fronts with P195/65-15 tires went on with no issues. The rears with P225/70-15 required some modifications on the passenger side. I had to grind down the frame protrusion and hammer the inside wheel well in one location. 20 minutes work.
It would look better with smaller tires on the back, but it does what I want from a gearing standpoint. Now it drives nice without revving so much and smoother when I let off the gas. Based on the original tire being an A-78-13 tire I now have a 21% change in gearing! It now cruises nice on the freeway. Next week I will see what mileage I can get. I am trying to add a picture.
Hey Starliner,
Yes a very nice looking Pinto.
Is your sand color Pinto a Hatch Or trunk??
Looks like the joker Pinto I just bought before someone trashed the int and painted it purple.
Almost the same car. 1973 sand color W/1600 and 4/spd.
From Pintony
Looks like a Sedan from here.
Bill
Yep, it's a sedan with a trunk. It doesn't get any more plain Jane than this one. It didn't even have a cigarette lighter!
This is just a daily driver that I am trying to get the best mileage & reliability for the lowest total price. I got a kid in college, so no $$$ project cars for a while. So I can justify a little fun trying to tweak it. I now have the total invested cost around $3200.00. This includes brakes, tires, cooling system, etc... No car payments are great. And with the all the maintenance items replaced and the low miles, it is reliable for my 110 mile a day drive.
I can't drive it this week to get my latest mileage because we have been getting lake effects snow in the Detroit area. I had to drive it through some salt spray yesterday for a few miles. >:( So I will hold back from driving until I get it the underside all washed and undercoated.
Next week I will install the electric radiator fan (also from a Tempo) and maybe the electronic ignition. I should then be able to gauge my mileage results.
Starliner,
You mentioned in your last post that you were getting some ignition parts, I assume you are going to update the old system, Could you tell me what you had in mind, how are you going to update the ignition system. I have a 72 probably need to do the same.
Dale
There is not very much available ignition wise for the 1600...I heard from this site that the older Fiesta have a good ignition system for the 1600 if I could find one. But there are no older cars in the rust belt and I would prefer something new or low mileage. So I was going to try a Pertronix electronic ignition kit to retrofit my existing distributor. (I only have 24875 miles) Also I will add & rewire for a 12 volt coil. Here is the link, however it's a maze to find items like the 4 cyl 12 volt coil: http://www.pertronix.com/ (http://www.pertronix.com/)
I am surprised my present distributor curves out well with the dual vacuum advance to allow me to use the 87 octane without any spark knocking under most conditions. If I advance it another 2 degrees or so I get light spark knocking across the board under load. So I think it is dialed in pretty close.
Do you have a 1600 or 2000? Stick or automatic?
HEY STARLINER---GOOD LOOKIN' RIDE!! I PONDERED PUTTING 93 TOPAZ 7 SPOKE
ALLOY WHEELS ON MY '80, BUT MOMMA SAID TO KEEP MY GRUBBY FINGERS OFF
HER BELOVED CAR!!! SO I ORDERED A SET OF AMERICAN RACING OUTLAW II
WHEELS INSTEAD OF PROVOKING THE IRE OF MOMMA.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DICK
Starliner.
I have a 2.0. 72 wagon, 4 speed. I have 140,000 miles on the car. 20 years ago ,at about 100,000 miles a local ford dealership said they rebuilt my engine. I later found out that the timing belt took a crap, and the local honest ford dealer said I needed a new rebuild, Ha, Ha, the jokes on me. I don't know why I'm laughing. He put on a timing belt and sent me on my way 900 dollars lighter in the wallet, what a scam. Steam cleaning the engine was about as far as he got to a rebuild, what a crook. He had quite a scam going because a lot of 2.0 engines at 100,000 miles will give up the timing belt. And so the scam started with untold 100,s of Pinto owners falling for the scam. Oh well. But I digress, do you use any kind of additive? In lieu of unleaded gas? I do. Its called CD2, a lead substitute, Its cheep and one bottle will treat about 400 gallons.
Yesterday, I got a price for rebuilding my 2.0 at a machine shop. and they quoted me 2500 dollars, that includes pulling the engine and replacing, I think that is a fair price, What do you think? If I were to pull it, it would be 1700 bucks, I know its not to hard to pull but I'll probably let them do it.
Regards,
Dale
Hey Dale,
Before you consider rebuilding your motor I would evaluate the overall condition of your car. At 140,000 miles make a list of everything that needs rebuilding or refurbishing. How is....door hinges, interior, trans, front end, frame, rust, body, paint, rubber, rear axle, etc. Now add that cost to your $2500.00 engine rebuild. The conclusion may be that you can find a low mileage original car at a lower total cost than rebuilding everything. If you have rust I would go the route of replacing the car.
Regarding the engine rebuild, if you are having someone do all the work you might as well get them to do everything so they will guarantee everything. I would also negotiate a 500 mile check up with them that would include an oil change, head re-torque, valve adjustment, and tune -up check. When they rebuild the engine make sure they add hardened valve seats. That will eliminate the need for any fuel additives.
If you do decide to pull the motor yourself, consider having the engine rebuilt by a shop that specializes in the 2000 engine, even if it requires travel or shipping. Then you know they have the experience.
Myself I use no additives except during the engine rebuild process. Usually cam break in lube. For the engine start up I use Castrol GTX 20W-50 if it's warm or 10W-40 if it's cold. When I fire the engine for the first time I run it around 2000 RPMs for 20 minutes. (have a fan blowing at the radiator) Then I idle it the minimum amount to set the timing & carb. Let it cool for 20 minutes and check all fluids, bolts, etc and look everything over. I then take it for a 30 minute drive staying near home if I have any problems.
I then change the oil & filter and use the same weight oil again. Then I drive it until I have 500 miles. Retorque the heads, adjust the valves, and change the oil/filter. At 3000 miles I switch over to synthetic oil. I use 15W-50 Mobil 1, it protects the cam from wear and flows well even at low temperatures. I then change the Mobil 1 oil every 4000 miles or 6 months. I change my oil every 2-3 months because of the miles I put on. (550 miles a week) Thin oils are not good for 1600 & 2000 cams. New cars are a different story.
I have not used any fuel additives on my 60 & 70s cars and have been very lucky with having no valve problems. I found the lead substitute additives leaves deposits that promote spark knock. I would rather drive them until I have a problem, then pull the heads to add the hardened valve seats.
Thanks for the info Starliner. My car was purchased brand new in 72, and its been an Arizona car most of its life. I had the car stored for 20 years, only recently have I cleaned it up, like boiling out the gas tank, radiator, added a new fuel pump, rebuilt the carburetor, you know all the little things one has to do to revive a car that has been stored that long. Actually, the car runs dam nice, I think it burns a little oil because it sat for so long, and beside from the sentimental value, its a 4 speed wagon with a straight body, a few dents; the car is white so the color has stood up very well.
Every where I go people come up to me and some ask what kind of car it is, and others talk about when they had one or new someone who did. I'm sure Starliner you get the same comments. I plan on adding some wheels, maybe get a repaint down the line and get around to a rebuild, heck, I even have airconditioning, something you gotta have out here in AZ. Let me know Starliner if you get that distributor mod that means no points to gap.
Regards,
Dale
Hello Dale,
A set of NEW valve stem seals would most likely be in order for your 2.0.
I have changed them many times using compressed air to hold the valves shut while using a spring compresser to remove the spring and change the seal.
A less techinical way is to bring the piston to TDC and push rope into the sparkplug hole to keep the valves from falling.
Makes a BIG difference!!
A nice afternoon of wrenching and the satisfaction of doing it yourself.
The new seals cost about the price of an oil change.
From Pintony
Quote from: Starliner on December 07, 2006, 06:30:56 PM
There is not very much available ignition wise for the 1600...I heard from this site that the older Fiesta have a good ignition system for the 1600 if I could find one. But there are no older cars in the rust belt and I would prefer something new or low mileage. So I was going to try a Pertronix electronic ignition kit to retrofit my existing distributor. (I only have 24875 miles) Also I will add & rewire for a 12 volt coil. Here is the link, however it's a maze to find items like the 4 cyl 12 volt coil: http://www.pertronix.com/ (http://www.pertronix.com/)
I am surprised my present distributor curves out well with the dual vacuum advance to allow me to use the 87 octane without any spark knocking under most conditions. If I advance it another 2 degrees or so I get light spark knocking across the board under load. So I think it is dialed in pretty close.
Hey Starliner
Check out this link.
http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/tfi.htm