I went to a body shop here locally to find out about getting my Cruising Wagon repainted. It's a little rough where someone had ground off the original three-stripe decals and painted the car a kind of burgundy/maroon color. I figure I'm looking at a couple or three thousand dollars, which is really more than I want to pay, but I can't paint a car so I'm starting to ask around. This guy starts talking about restoration being all he does and how he will disassemble the car, refurbish everything, and put it together like new. Two guys, $65 per hour, eight hours per day, four days per week. It works out to $1,040 per day, $4,160 per week. And he said it would take about sixteen (!) weeks to finish the car because they only work on one car at a time. Total boat---$66,560.
I replied, "It's a Pinto. It's worth three grand. A Bobcat/Pinto just sold at auction for about $13,000 at Meachums, but you're still looking at upside down figures of fifty grand."
He was adamant. "It will be worth a lot more after that kind of work though, maybe thirty or forty thousand."
I said, "It better be nice because I'll be living in the thing if my wife finds out I spent sixty-five grand on a paint job when she wants a pool"
His response? "Well, it's a lot more than a paint job."
My response, "Not to her."
We talked about D & D Restorations in Covington, who do Packards and Mercedes gull-wings and Cobras and Pebble Beach type cars, and they win all the time. He thought he was as capable, and maybe he was. But it's still a Pinto!
He couldn't even think of anyone who could paint a car any more. I was itching to get out of that building in a hurry, so I managed extricate myself after about thirty minutes.
He believes the only person who can paint a car for less is someone who does the body work at home in a garage, and their price will be reflected in the quality of their work.
Now, I know there is crack in the world. I'm just not smoking any of it, thought he seems to think I might be. What is fair for an all over paint job with doing some minor ding work?
I realize this guy runs a restoration shop. He didn't tell me that up front or I never would have gone there in the first place. But holy cow! I don't know how to paint a car, and I don't have the tools to do it either. So am I going to have to learn yet another new skill or just get a fourth #$%*#@ job?
Matt, you're not smoking crack but maybe HE is...lol.
That guy might do award-winning restoration but at his prices I could pay a chunk of my mortgage instead of handing it to him and not seeing my Pinto for months. Out here there are several paint and body shops. I know there are "Earl Sheib $29.99 jobs" and good or real good paint jobs. You get what you pay for, but $66,560!? Maybe the paint fumes fried his brain. Anyway, shop around and get quotes. Remember, there are differences between painting over the existing paint and down-to-bare-metal jobs. At Carcoa paint, body, and collision I was quoted about $6,000 to do Wildfire, but she has to have her old paint sanded to bare metal because of crackling. Dwayne (dga57) seems to be a dab hand at painting and body work, but he's in Virginia. Anyway, Matt, I wish you luck in your search. ;D
Not surprised - he runs a high end shop, and wanted to do high end work, Pinto or not. Now of course, "high end" is subjective, but he's looking for cash, so it does not matter. He's not going to recommend anyone else because he wants the business, especially the "whole" business.
In this case I just think it was the wrong guy (he does more than paint), or he does NOT want to do the work, and quoted you a stupidly exorbitant price to dissuade you. Either way, there are other folks out there who can help.
And, to answer your first question, yes, in general, the world HAS gone mad.
Chris
thats your problem right there you never go to a restoration shop if all you want is some body work and a paint job cause when they hear i got a car they think they are subjected to yank it fully apart and do a full ground up resto no matter what most Restorers are money hungry dirtbags yah they can do good work but theres still normal people that dont wanna spend 100k on a car. your talking 50+ just for the work he does thats not adding in what hes gunna say you needa buy to repair the car to his standards.
If i was you id just find a regular old body shop that does newer cars. 3 grand should be a reasonable price range to shoot for if all you want is some body work and paint.
I got a price of $2500 to paint my Cruising wagon after I strip it and do all the body work,which I am almost done with ! Thats is from a restore/body shop.It seems like a fair price , but I am going to try painting it my self.I did all the work so far and want to continue.I plan to shoot the primer , and if that goes well Ill do the color.If not Ill let him finish it.I know the body guy well and he will work with me.
Matt,
Look at it this way... you have a new experience to write about for Pinto Times! :lol:
Seriously, there are MANY shops around who paint cars without doing major restoration! It's been about 5 years since I had my '79 Collector's Series Lincoln Continental done, and it cost me just about $4000. Now here's the deal... I took it to one of the best and most respected body shops in town. Their bread and butter, of course, is collision repair. They told me they felt the proper way to paint this particular car was to remove everything that was removeable (bumpers, grille, trim, door handles, etc.) and take it to bare metal. At that stage they repaired the few door dings, etc., re-aligned some of the body panels to tighter tolerances than the factory had orginally done, and smoothed out a few factory imperfections on welds to make the car actually look more perfect than it did when it was new. Then they did a two-stage primer, followed by the color coat, and topped off with a clearcoat. The car was, and still is, magnificent. I know this was 5 years ago, but we're also talking about a car with approximately three times the body surface of a Pinto; hence more product as well as more labor. They told me that if I wanted it done quickly (meaning they would schedule it right in with the collision work) I'd probably be looking at $12000 or more. On the other hand, if I was willing to let the car stay there so they could work on it during what would otherwise be downtime, they would reduce the labor rate significantly. After all, these are the types of jobs most body men prefer doing and seldom get the chance to do. It took seven weeks from start to finish and became a team project. The shop manager told me that his crew actually worked more efficiently than ever on the regular jobs just
so they could spend time on the Lincoln! As an added surprise when I picked the car up, the guys who had worked on it had dug up a bunch of old eight-track tapes and assembled a gift basket for me. They even all signed a card thanking me for allowing them to work on my car!
If you don't have any firsthand experience with a good body shop in your area, ask your insurance agent to recommend one. I truly believe you can get your Cruising Wagon done within a budget you're comfortable with.
One other final thought: a lot of body shop employees do side work in their home shops, so that might be an option also.
Good luck and let us know how it all works out!
Dwayne :smile:
Dwayne, what a great story!
Quote from: blupinto on April 16, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Dwayne, what a great story!
It began feeling like a book when I was writing it, but I felt Matt might need a little something to believe in after his encounter with the restoration guy!
Dwayne :smile:
Like my War And Peace letters? lol. No really, Dwayne, that paint shop was ubercool!
I appreciate the comments and the suggestions, cause truth to be told I was pretty unhappy when I left his place. I did go to the local Ford dealer (I've come to have a pretty good relationship with them over the years, and I just bought a car there for my stepson) and they want to take a look at it. He said if I did like Dwayne mentioned, and removed everything that could come off the car, they could give me a pretty decent estimate. I'm not in a rush for the car, so maybe it could work out. A scary thought has been creeping into my mind though, and this is where I always get into trouble...if I take everything apart, why couldn't I strip it down myself and primer it (Just like you said Flash) in my garage? Heck, maybe I could paint it. Baby steps...baby steps...
If i can do it anyone can just dont jump in head first and get in over your head.
Do everything right the first time and don't half arse stuff.When people start buying the materials for making their cars look good is when you find out who the true car people are.
The not so true car people usually start seeing the prices of paint,primer,bondo,fiberglass and all the other odds and ends like sandpaper and what not add up and are like this is too expensive and try to buy the cheapest junk they make or cut corners all together. Then they wonder why their car ended up being a 50footer when its all said and done.
You know, Matt... everyone who has ever painted cars had to paint a first one. You never know until you try. If you have any extra body panels laying around anywhere, they are excellent to practice on! My best friend has been painting cars for close to fifty years and he was standing right beside me every step of the way the first time I took a paint gun in hand. I probably wouldn't have had the guts to try it otherwise. There is a knack to it... it's mostly in the wrist. Other than that, the advice you've gotten here is all good. Don't skimp on materials and take it one step at a time. I painted my own truck and my Mark V. Both were in light colors which tend to also be more forgiving. When I decided the other Lincoln needed doing (it's Midnight Blue Metallic with a clearcoat), I decided to leave that one to the professionals and I've never regretted that decision. When I get around to putting the paint on my Pinto, I will most likely do that one myself.
Dwayne :smile:
Ok, now I'm starting to feel the seeds of confidence (always dangerous) but I guess if I really hose it up I could always pay someone else to do it anyway, and if it goes reasonably well, I could save thousands of $, which is never bad.
Hi, My girlfriend has painted cars/motorcycles on and off for the past 25 years. over the last couple years her and I have painted 5 cars. and I am slowly learning things as she is a good teacher.
If you go it alone, here is something to think about. I would not recommend taking any vehicle down to bare metal. what you actually do is make 5 times more work than is needed. what happens is you open up the metal to surface rust if you leave the metal exposed tooo long. you will destroy the factory aged primed metal. and you will expose all body flaws that will need to be re-skim coated and flattened/sanded smooth. If you have not done body work before you could be asking for more work than is needed. Many people have this belief that they have to strip a vehicle to bare metal. this is sooo far from the real reasons to take to metal... the only reason you might need to get to metal is if you have a rust spot, body dings. and only in that area to metal. then you prime over the metal and feather in the body's paint to the bondo/primer.
you want to sand out the polish of the body scuff the old paint and let this be your starting base for the old paint and primer is holding good the natural age. the paint job is the final top... all the body work is the meat and potatoes of the job. painting bad areas will not make it look good... it will make a bad body look worse... it is all in PREP and SANDING.... not in bare metal then primeing...
if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Quote from: FlyerPinto on April 17, 2010, 10:31:08 AM
Ok, now I'm starting to feel the seeds of confidence (always dangerous) but I guess if I really hose it up I could always pay someone else to do it anyway, and if it goes reasonably well, I could save thousands of $, which is never bad.
Now you're getting into the spirit!!!
Dwayne :smile:
Flyer, how is the body in general? Every panel on mine needed some kind of attenion which is why I decided to strip it all to bare metal.For the most part the factory paint was stuck on well , but dull.I just had too many issues , so i decided to strip it.If there was no or minimal rust i would not of done that.It was a LOT of work , but I am confindent it will trun out great.Like starsky said prep and sanding!
Quote from: 78_starsky on April 17, 2010, 10:54:14 AM
Hi, My girlfriend has painted cars/motorcycles on and off for the past 25 years. over the last couple years her and I have painted 5 cars. and I am slowly learning things as she is a good teacher.
If you go it alone, here is something to think about. I would not recommend taking any vehicle down to bare metal. what you actually do is make 5 times more work than is needed. what happens is you open up the metal to surface rust if you leave the metal exposed tooo long. you will destroy the factory aged primed metal. and you will expose all body flaws that will need to be re-skim coated and flattened/sanded smooth. If you have not done body work before you could be asking for more work than is needed. Many people have this belief that they have to strip a vehicle to bare metal. this is sooo far from the real reasons to take to metal... the only reason you might need to get to metal is if you have a rust spot, body dings. and only in that area to metal. then you prime over the metal and feather in the body's paint to the bondo/primer.
you want to sand out the polish of the body scuff the old paint and let this be your starting base for the old paint and primer is holding good the natural age. the paint job is the final top... all the body work is the meat and potatoes of the job. painting bad areas will not make it look good... it will make a bad body look worse... it is all in PREP and SANDING.... not in bare metal then primeing...
if you have any questions feel free to ask.
It was recommended that my '74 Runabout be taken down to bare metal because the paint is crackled on the up-facing surfaces (hood, cowl, roof). In a sense, the metal is indeed already exposed... so I can see the reasoning behind that suggestion.
Right! I was able to scuff, prime, and paint my F-150 pickup and my Mark V with no worries. The paint on my Collector's Series Continental was a different story. The fellow who owned it just prior to me, kept in a covered, but not enclosed parking garage in Myrtle Beach, SC. That in itself wouldn't have been a problem except that he decided to purchase a car cover for it. The salt in that ocean-front atmosphere got under that cover and wreaked absolutel havoc on the paint job. Might not have happened if the car had been in daily use but it sat covered for 4 - 6 months at a time as the owner actually lived in Dallas, TX and owned a condo in Myrtle Beach that he visited 2- 3 times per year. The integrity of the original finish was so in question that taking it to bare metal was the only thing which made absolute sense. That's why I turned it over to the professionals instead of tackling it myself. It was kept inside at all times, and was done much more quickly than I could have managed working on it alone in my spare time. Every individual situation is different. Is "bare metal" always necessary? No! But sometimes it IS necessary. My advice is to think it through honestly, objectively, and thoroughly before you DO anything!
Dwayne :smile:
Quote from: dga57 on April 17, 2010, 11:21:20 PM
Right! I was able to scuff, prime, and paint my F-150 pickup and my Mark V with no worries. The paint on my Collector's Series Continental was a different story. The fellow who owned it just prior to me, kept in a covered, but not enclosed parking garage in Myrtle Beach, SC. That in itself wouldn't have been a problem except that he decided to purchase a car cover for it. The salt in that ocean-front atmosphere got under that cover and wreaked absolutel havoc on the paint job. Might not have happened if the car had been in daily use but it sat covered for 4 - 6 months at a time as the owner actually lived in Dallas, TX and owned a condo in Myrtle Beach that he visited 2- 3 times per year. The integrity of the original finish was so in question that taking it to bare metal was the only thing which made absolute sense. That's why I turned it over to the professionals instead of tackling it myself. It was kept inside at all times, and was done much more quickly than I could have managed working on it alone in my spare time. Every individual situation is different. Is "bare metal" always necessary? No! But sometimes it IS necessary. My advice is to think it through honestly, objectively, and thoroughly before you DO anything!
Dwayne :smile:
Absolutel...is that Swedish? :lol:
Ya... Svedish!!!
Dwayne :embarassed:
"My advice is to think it through honestly, objectively, and thoroughly before you DO anything!
Dwayne"
well said...
Yes we have to agree that sometimes bare metal is the only way to go if you are backed into that situation.
blupinto, That would be a for sure situation, those cracks would cause pure hell to feather out and one would never know if they had gotten all of them.
The body itself is pretty solid, the floor pans seems good and all that. Other than adjusting the doors everything seems solid. The problem is the original tri-color stripes which ran over the hood, down the fenders, over the doors, up the rear quarters and Cruising Wagon panels were apparently taken off with a grinding wheel, leaving uneven surfaces up and down the length of the car.
Quote from: FlyerPinto on April 19, 2010, 09:03:53 AM
The body itself is pretty solid, the floor pans seems good and all that. Other than adjusting the doors everything seems solid. The problem is the original tri-color stripes which ran over the hood, down the fenders, over the doors, up the rear quarters and Cruising Wagon panels were apparently taken off with a grinding wheel, leaving uneven surfaces up and down the length of the car.
The only way to repair/resurface that, Matt, is to break out the body filler. The lightest skim coat you can get by with will yield the best result... then sand off the excess until it's perfectly smooth. This is time consuming and frustrating, but it can and must be done to achieve a good finished product. If you attempt it yourself, I would recommend you invest in a good DA sander if you don't already have one.
Dwayne :smile:
Well I'm working on getting some help enlisted so I can do this thing in my own garage. I have a friend with a lot of experience and we spoke today at lunch. I might actually get this to work.
Quote from: FlyerPinto on April 19, 2010, 02:27:13 PM
Well I'm working on getting some help enlisted so I can do this thing in my own garage. I have a friend with a lot of experience and we spoke today at lunch. I might actually get this to work.
Here's wishing you the VERY best of luck! Don't forget to photo-document the project for
Pinto Times! It will make an interesting and helpful article!
Dwayne :smile: