I've searched the posts, read what's available on the web, and looked at (well, virtually) the Racer Walsh, Esslinger, and Speedway sprockets. I'm leaning toward the Racer Walsh for 2 reasons....easier to advance or retard than the Speedway multi index sprocket, and a better price than Esslinger. I'm not building a racer, I just want to get rid of the retard ground in the cam, pick up a little performance and hopefully some gas mileage.
Any experience and compelling reasons for one over another?
I would buy a used Esslinger ( but I am biased ).
You don't have to take the center bolt loose to change the advance/retard settings.
That was one feature I liked about the Racer Walsh piece too. Have you used any of the other sprockets?
I have used both. The reason I said I was biased is because Dan Esslinger is a good friend of mine.
So he can kick down the good guy discount? ;)
Well, I ordered a few things a couple days ago. The piston stop came today, so I found tdc and checked the t-belt alignment. Doesn't look like I can blame the belt for it being slow, but at this point I can't guarantee the cam index is right.
I also ordered the Racer Walsh adjustable cam sprocket so I can take the retard out of the cam. I'm going to replace the belt and tensioner this weekend, though after seeing it today, I doubt the performance will be affected. The sprocket is due in next Wednesday, so I'll install it and start around 2 degrees advanced from TRUE straight up. The new carb should be in next week, so I'll get a good idea what does what one piece at a time.
I decided to get a jump start on the belt by pulling down the front of the engine. It came to a screeching halt when I got to the crank pulley though. There aren't any jacking holes for my puller, so it looks like it's off to Harbor Freight tomorrow for a cheap 3 jaw external puller. It's not like I'm wasting time by pulling everything off.... I'll be detailing whatever I touch, so there should also be a big visual change when I'm done. I tell ya, it's a sickness.....
Everything is on track. I went to Harbor Freight Saturday early and bought an inexpensive 3 jaw puller. Brought it home and the crank pulley was off in 2 minutes (one minute was because it needed to be assembled).
It took hours to clean the front of the engine.... years of oil, dirt, more oil and even more dirt. I HATE this part of the job! Everything was stripped, bead blasted, and painted and detailed, so now I'm just waiting on the cam sprocket. You KNOW I have too much time on my hands when I'm putting the buffing wheel to the stainless hose clamps.
I made one already, but I figured I'd ask.... does anyone know if the clamps/brackets to hold the coolant pipes to the valve cover are available?
I received the Racer Walsh sprocket today, so it was time to go play. I had the valve cover off and tried the bubble method explained in the "Cam Timing 101" thread, and it wasn't working. I don't know if the cam profiles are different enough between the 2.0 and 2.3, but it was time for plan B. I don't have a dial indicator and stand here, but I have the dial calipers. I used a 1" wide steel rule, laid it over the machined surfaces on the top of the cam towers and measured the distance from the rule to the intake and exhaust lobes on #1. I rotated the cam until the heights were the same. I have no way of knowing if the lobe opening and closer ramps are symmetrical, so I "assumed" they were and used that as zero. I set the sprocket to zero and tightened it down. After a few attempts finding how much to compensate for the slack in the belt, I got it.At this point, I'm looking at the pointer on the inner cover thinking with as big as it is, I'll be lucky to be within 2 degrees. I reassembled it to the point where I could fire it, and it lit right off.
The next couple days I'll be testing it and adding a couple degrees to see what difference there is. When I get it dialed in, the new carb will go on and I'll see if that takes care of the crappy gas mileage and running fat.
Tonight, I buttoned everything up and took it for a drive. More bottom end power, and generally better driving habits (still not a tire shredder by ANY stretch). I decide to add 2 more degrees of cam timing and a very slight stutter it had when I first fired it was more pronounced with a light ping on hard acceleration. I have a couple other issues to resolve before i get into that. The previous owner replaced the mechanical fuel pump with one of the impulse (cheapie) electrics, and mounted it on the fenderwell at about carb level. I know I have to move it down onto the frame rail somehow so it doesn't have to pull the fuel column so high and stays primed.I am also having a BIG problem with the engine running WAY rich and I suspect 2 things. One, the pump is putting out too much pressure....I'm pretty sure I remember reading the Weber doesn't like more than about 3.5 lbs pressure. Second, the carb is off a '79 and from what I can tell, a Canadian Fairmont 2.3. I don't know what emissions Canada had, but it has the solenoid on the carb top, and I don't need to fight a carb. When I get the pump and regulator straightened out, I'll be putting the NOS Ford '74 carb on to see what the difference is.
Any of this make sense, or am I chasing my tail?
Makes perfect sense. My suggestion: ditch the stock carb and the adapter plate and bolt on a holley 350. (I think I'm remembering right, dosen't the 2.3 use an egr plate that can be removed and the bolt pattern is right for the holley?) When I first got my Pinto, I used an adapter on the 2.0 intake to mount the 350, added a header, glass pack, advanced the cam 2 degrees past true TDC, and set the total timing at 36 BTDC. It made a HUGE difference in driveability and overall power. The 350 was the last thing I did, I fiddled with the stock 5200 and it ran ok but when I put on the 350 it was like driving a different car. Be careful with the cam timing, 2 degrees seemed to work best for me, 4 degrees made it ping a little like you said.
Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 07, 2009, 10:53:58 PM
Makes perfect sense. My suggestion: ditch the stock carb and the adapter plate and bolt on a holley 350. (I think I'm remembering right, dosen't the 2.3 use an egr plate that can be removed and the bolt pattern is right for the holley?) When I first got my Pinto, I used an adapter on the 2.0 intake to mount the 350, added a header, glass pack, advanced the cam 2 degrees past true TDC, and set the total timing at 36 BTDC. It made a HUGE difference in driveability and overall power. The 350 was the last thing I did, I fiddled with the stock 5200 and it ran ok but when I put on the 350 it was like driving a different car. Be careful with the cam timing, 2 degrees seemed to work best for me, 4 degrees made it ping a little like you said.
This is going to be my daily driver, so I'm not taking this too far from stock. My biggest concern at this point is how fat it's running. THAT I need to take care of right away.
Oh, and what is teh secret t getting the valve cover gaskets to seal? :lost:
Quote from: slowride on May 07, 2009, 11:51:52 PM
This is going to be my daily driver, so I'm not taking this too far from stock. My biggest concern at this point is how fat it's running. THAT I need to take care of right away.
Oh, and what is teh secret t getting the valve cover gaskets to seal? :lost:
That WAS my daily driver!! ;D It still had the stock cam and automatic, it ran good with those simple mods.
If you can find a rubber molded type gasket, they are expensive but worth the money. When I use cork, I glue it to the V/C and put nothing on the head side. I use that yellow monkey-snot looking glue called super weatherstrip adhesive. Put a bead of it on the V/C and put the bolts through the wrong way to hold the gasket down and let it dry.
Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 08, 2009, 05:37:25 PM
That WAS my daily driver!! ;D It still had the stock cam and automatic, it ran good with those simple mods.
If you can find a rubber molded type gasket, they are expensive but worth the money. When I use cork, I glue it to the V/C and put nothing on the head side. I use that yellow monkey-snot looking glue called super weatherstrip adhesive. Put a bead of it on the V/C and put the bolts through the wrong way to hold the gasket down and let it dry.
What's really strange is the only remaining leak is around the head of the left front vc bolt. It's not leaking around the rail at all, just the bolt head. There was another, but I tried a trick of putting a small o-ring under the washer on the threads and it took care of the others, just not this one bolt.
Do the aluminum turbo covers seal any better?
Today was good..... I'm finally happy with the Pinto. I made a "L" bracket and mounted the pump down on the frame rail. I bent new 3/8" aluminum tube as well as adding a regulator. First trip out with 3.5 lbs pressure, it died... fuel starvation. I took it up to 5 lbs, same thing. The thing was, it was still running fat, so I decided to put the NOS carb on. I set it up and took it out.... died again. I figured it had to be the regulator, so I took it off and ran new line to the carb. The next test drive was great.... a completely different car. Idles better, more power throughout the powerband, and running leaner. I put another degree advance in the cam and it drives like a car should! This is pretty much it for the mechanical, now I just need to put some new carpet in and drive. ;D
Slowride, you need to move the pump to the rear of the car as close to the tank as possible. They are made to push fuel, not pull it.
Quote from: slowride on May 11, 2009, 12:20:48 AM
Today was good..... I'm finally happy with the Pinto. I made a "L" bracket and mounted the pump down on the frame rail. I bent new 3/8" aluminum tube as well as adding a regulator. First trip out with 3.5 lbs pressure, it died... fuel starvation. I took it up to 5 lbs, same thing. The thing was, it was still running fat, so I decided to put the NOS carb on. I set it up and took it out.... died again. I figured it had to be the regulator, so I took it off and ran new line to the carb. The next test drive was great.... a completely different car. Idles better, more power throughout the powerband, and running leaner. I put another degree advance in the cam and it drives like a car should! This is pretty much it for the mechanical, now I just need to put some new carpet in and drive. ;D
What regulator are you talking about? did you install an aftermarket regulator with the electric pump?
Quote from: 71pintoracer on May 11, 2009, 05:13:41 PM
Slowride, you need to move the pump to the rear of the car as close to the tank as possible. They are made to push fuel, not pull it.
As long as it's primed (below fuel level) it's not an issue. That's why I mounted it on the frame rail. This pump doesn't have the volume or pressure to deal with the loss through 10 feet of tubing. I'll be replumbing it soon, but it's OK for now.
Quote from: pintoguy76 on May 11, 2009, 08:47:36 PM
What regulator are you talking about? did you install an aftermarket regulator with the electric pump?
Yes, fuel pressure regulator. I wound up removing it as the output isn't enough to blow past the needle and seat. If I were to replace it with a pump with with more pressure and volume, I'd reinstall the regulator.
A pic and a question. Does ANYONE have the brackets that hold the heater pipes to the valve cover?
Looking at it, the exhaust manifold needs to come off, be blasted and shot with gray ceramic. Oh, and the intake needs to be stripped and detailed. Oh, and....
Well, I've been driving the wagon daily since I posted this and it has been great. It doesn't get very good gas mileage (18mpg), and runs a tad fat at idle. I've been told this is the nature of the 5200, so I'm making a change.
I've read a few posts about replacing the 5200 with a 350 2 bbl and it seems pretty straightforward except for a couple details. I'll have to make another kickdown rod (done it before, no big deal), and modify/fab the throttle cable. I'm hoping to get a little better mileage and some performance out of it.
So from what I gather from this thread and the cam timing 101 session is:
1 - In stock form, the 2.3 cam might not be at TDC position even when the engine is (marker error).
2 - Advancing a stock 2.3 engine's cam 2 degrees adds low RPM power (at the expense of high RPM power). My car is a daily driver that sees 3500+ RPM very seldom.
3 - The various pullies that have the adjustment screws will all do the same job.
4 - Three degrees tops advancement.
I am trying to set myself straight on this as it is all new to me... :read:
I am preparing to replace valve seals in mine without removing the head. Since cam and timing belt will be removed, adding that pulley might be an easy way for more get up and go off the line.
And yes, I plan to make a nice "project" post of it all... :angel:
I have thought about an "RV" cam but I prefer to save that for "next time" when the head would be pulled, machined, etc....
Am I on the right track? :look:
Yep, sounds like you are headed the right way. I would say 6 degrees max on cam timing, 2-4 usually works best but you can play with it and see what "feels" best. Don't forget to put a dab of silicone on your cam bolt!
Quote from: slowride on May 12, 2009, 08:55:56 PM
A pic and a question. Does ANYONE have the brackets that hold the heater pipes to the valve cover?
Looking at it, the exhaust manifold needs to come off, be blasted and shot with gray ceramic. Oh, and the intake needs to be stripped and detailed. Oh, and....
i might have one but i made one of my owne befor i found andn original give me a couple days to see if i can find it.
phil
found it