Author Topic: Transmission for 1980 Ford Pinto (Read 19988 times)

AndrewG · « **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2014, 11:41:50 AM »

I think i figured out step #12, it says to "rotate the extension housing until the end of the countershaft is opposite the cutaway in the extension housing flange".
From the front of the gearbox I can see a circular space below the input shaft that seems to be the front end of the countershaft rod. I think I am supposed to hit it from the front so that the shaft exits out the back near the housing. The housing should be turned to allow this shaft to exit. In order to keep the needle rollers in place, the rod used to remove the countershaft should be left in place so that it holds these rollers. (Thanks for the warning on the needle rollers).

Can you guys let me know if I'm on the right track. I don't want to hit anything until I know for sure that I'm supposed to.

AndrewG · « **Reply #31 on:** August 25, 2014, 08:56:29 PM »

That was is. The trans are now apart. The needle rollers were difficult to keep intake, but I know how they go back so it's no big deal. I still need to find a plastic dome and tabbed lock nut somewhere, but at least I'm making progress.

russosborne · « **Reply #32 on:** August 25, 2014, 09:05:11 PM »

Glad you got it apart, hopefully you can find the parts you need.
Russ

AndrewG · « **Reply #33 on:** August 25, 2014, 09:10:57 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 25, 2014, 09:05:11 PM

Glad you got it apart, hopefully you can find the parts you need.
Russ

Thanks for your support. I'll keep you up to date on my progress.
Hopefully I'll find the parts soon.

Srt · « **Reply #34 on:** August 26, 2014, 03:19:57 AM »

You have done all the hard stuff.

This is from the "been there-done that" department.

Do not reassemble the trans without purchasing NEW needle bearings & a NEW countershaft.

Do not reassemble the trans without NEW brass syncro rings & the wire 'springs that go with them.

DO replace all the input shaft & mainshaft bearings.

I don't know the intended use of the car BUT; the 2nd gear sychro brass & the 2nd gear countershaft gear are a definite weakpoint with these transmissions of used hard.

The countershaft & needles are weak also.

DO use a NEW input shaft bearing & take a close look at the input shaft itself (where it enters the pilot bearing @ the crank)

AndrewG · « **Reply #35 on:** August 26, 2014, 07:40:43 AM »

Thank you for that advice.

Input shaft is good, but that brass syncro looked bad and one of it's springs had broken. One of the dogs was at the bottom of the case.
The car was used very little and had few miles on it. I don't intend to put many more miles on it.

Thanks for the post. I will replace the parts you recommended.
Any ideas regarding where to get those parts?

dave1987 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 26, 2014, 11:53:03 AM »

Sorry I disappeared there, last week was crazy for work.

Shifter fork bushing is the same as the Merkur T9 one. Here is a source:

http://merkurmidwest.com/catalog/i551.html

Like amc49, I haven't had any issues with Transtar and they get parts in pretty quickly. They have a list of suppliers that can get harder to find and or good spec used parts as well.

I will email you back about that shifter today as well, if you are still interested in trying something out without the dome.

AndrewG · « **Reply #37 on:** August 26, 2014, 12:24:48 PM »

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the link.
Yes, still interested. (A photo would help).

AndrewG · « **Reply #38 on:** August 28, 2014, 01:50:01 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 20, 2014, 06:40:27 PM

http://www.transtar1.com/
Transmission parts place.

I contacted Transtar regarding availability of parts for this transmission.
Here was their response:
=====================================================
"We did a clean out about 3 years ago and tossed a bunch of old stuff.
I hate throwing things away but I always run out of room".

Dave Hritsko
Transtar Industries
Technical Service Manager
=====================================================

Guess I'm out of luck with that option.

dga57 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 29, 2014, 12:09:50 AM »

Quote from: AndrewG on August 28, 2014, 01:50:01 PM

I contacted Transtar regarding availability of parts for this transmission.
Here was their response:
=====================================================
"We did a clean out about 3 years ago and tossed a bunch of old stuff.
I hate throwing things away but I always run out of room".

Dave Hritsko
Transtar Industries
Technical Service Manager
=====================================================

Guess I'm out of luck with that option.

Bummer!

russosborne · « **Reply #40 on:** August 29, 2014, 12:13:52 AM »

Yeah, that isn't good.
Was it all the shops, or just the one local to you that did that?

Do you know of any really good machinists? Maybe you could have somebody make you the parts you need. Costly, but it is an option. Maybe you could have enough made to sell them and get some of your money back.

Maybe you will have to upgrade after all? Or even go with an automatic trans? Definitely not as fun to drive, and with the Pinto engine not as much off the line power, but you would be able to drive the car. And that might be the most important thing.

There is a product out there for the T5 shifters that moves them back, but it is billet and not cheap. I don't know if I have the site bookmarked or not, but I will check and see.
http://www.autoworksparts.com/billet_shifter_relocation_kit.htm

Another option with the T5 is the camaro/S10 tailshaft swap. But it comes with other issues to solve.

Or maybe you can find a whole Pinto trans with a decent shifter. Advertise here would probably be the best place. Although that might only be a stop gap until that shifter has problems. We are dealing with almost 40 year old parts here.

How about putting a 302 and trans into that car?

Joke, I know you probably wouldn't want to do that even if it would fit.

I am glad now that my car didn't have the Pinto trans with it. Makes the decision to go T5 much easier for me. More costly up front, but better in the long run. Since it is a Mustang trans the odds of having parts available for the rest of my lifetime are pretty good.

Russ

dick1172762 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 29, 2014, 12:24:35 PM »

For FOG parts go to http://www.drivetrain.com They have them or so they say.

dga57 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 29, 2014, 01:07:14 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 12:13:52 AM

How about putting a 302 and trans into that car? Joke, I know you probably wouldn't want to do that even if it would fit.

But of you could squeeze it in there, you'd have the ultimate sleeper!!!

Dwayne

AndrewG · « **Reply #43 on:** August 29, 2014, 04:47:52 PM »

Quote from: dick1172762 on August 29, 2014, 12:24:35 PM

For FOG parts go to http://www.drivetrain.com They have them or so they say.

I checked on them. They just have rebuild kits, no shifter parts.
Thanks.

AndrewG · « **Reply #44 on:** August 29, 2014, 05:04:48 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 12:13:52 AM

Maybe you will have to upgrade after all? Or even go with an automatic trans.
Russ

OK, here's the latest. Went back to the Ford dealer I visited a few weeks ago. The parts manager was very nice and did a nationwide search of all Ford parts inventory. Came up with NOTHING AVAILABLE.

So now I'm thinking maybe I have to go with an upgrade, possibly with the C3 trans since these cars also came with those. Question is, would that eliminate the need to hunt around for a new bell housing? Can I use the existing bell housing and just eliminate the clutch assembly?

You guys need to answer that for me.

dick1172762 · « **Reply #45 on:** August 29, 2014, 05:10:51 PM »

The answer is no. You will need the c-3 or c-4 flex plate, converter, tranie with bell housing, shifter, tranie oil cooler, and most likely a new drive shaft. Sorry.

AndrewG · « **Reply #46 on:** August 29, 2014, 05:12:34 PM »

Quote from: dick1172762 on August 29, 2014, 05:10:51 PM

The answer is no. You will need the c-3 or c-4 flex plate, converter, tranie with bell housing, shifter, tranie oil cooler, and most likely a new drive shaft. Sorry.

Thanks. Guess that kills that idea.

So, the last option, and probably the most cost effective, is to find someone who can fabricate the parts I need. Where do I start? Who does that?

russosborne · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2014, 06:26:56 PM »

The parts to convert over to an auto really aren't hard to find. this is probably the best option. Maybe a couple hundred bucks plus shipping? I would imagine this would be a lot cheaper than having custom parts made. Use an aftermarket trans cooler so you don't have to change radiators, assuming yours does not have the auto trans cooler built in.
Post an ad here and you will probably get everything you need in one shot.

As far as finding a machinist, you can ask around any clubs you are in, friends, co workers, etc. Or get out the old phone book and start calling shops. Finding someone willing and able to do it might be the hard part. And they will most likely want a deposit up front to show you are serious.
It really will depend on what all it will take for them to do it, and that is something only a machinist type will know. If you could find a retired type who has a CNC type mill, or other equipment and does it for fun, that would be your best shot.

Russ

AndrewG · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2014, 07:22:42 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 06:26:56 PM

The parts to convert over to an auto really aren't hard to find. this is probably the best option. Maybe a couple hundred bucks plus shipping? I would imagine this would be a lot cheaper than having custom parts made. Use an aftermarket trans cooler so you don't have to change radiators, assuming yours does not have the auto trans cooler built in.
Russ

Thanks for the advice. The previois post had me thinking that it would be an expensive and complicated option.

I just installed a new radiator and it has an auto trans cooler built in, so I guess I'm covered there. Glad I went for that option on the radiator. At the time I purchased I figured it couldn't hurt to have it.

What about a T5. I'm hearing a lot of good things about that trans as there are many and the parts are easy to find. Is that an option?

russosborne · « **Reply #49 on:** August 29, 2014, 09:42:05 PM »

Yes, a T5 is definitely an option. The T5 is definitely more expensive than converting to an automatic. That may be what you were thinking of.
It really comes down to how much you are willing and able to spend. That is something you'll have to decide. Then we can help out more
Russ

AndrewG · « **Reply #50 on:** August 29, 2014, 09:59:32 PM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 09:42:05 PM

Yes, a T5 is definitely an option. The T5 is definitely more expensive than converting to an automatic. That may be what you were thinking of.
It really comes down to how much you are willing and able to spend. That is something you'll have to decide. Then we can help out more
Russ

I would like to keep it under a couple hundred dollars. Not sure if that will get me anywhere. Do you have some advice given that spending limit?

russosborne · « **Reply #51 on:** August 29, 2014, 10:35:49 PM »

I'd see if I could find the shifter stuff, like I saw you are doing in the wanted forum.

You could probably get most if not all of the C3 conversion stuff for that I would think, but I at least would want to have the trans rebuilt for peace of mind, and that will run the cost up quite a bit.

The T5 conversion would likely run close to $1000, unless you got really lucky and found a Mustang with a 2.3 and a T5 being sold very cheaply that you could buy whole and take everything you needed from, and there would still be some other expense most likely for little stuff. but the other side to that is you could probably make more money parting out the leftovers and end up either breaking even or coming out ahead. If you have a place and tools to do that.
The T5 trans alone here (Phoenix) are running several hundred by themselves. And it does have to be a 2.3 engine T5, unless you want to spend even more on the conversion. The V8 T5 isn't a bolt in for the 2.3 T5. Dang it all.

Try Craigslist in your area as well. I forget all the other cars that used the same 4 speed trans, they would all use the same shifter. And junk yards. Somewhere here there is a list of cars that used the FOG trans. It does give you more options than just looking for a "Pinto" part.

If anyone else has any ideas please let Andrew know them. I am not an expert in all of this by any stretch of the imagination.

Russ

AndrewG · « **Reply #52 on:** August 30, 2014, 09:04:45 AM »

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 10:35:49 PM

The T5 conversion would likely run close to $1000, unless you got really lucky and found a Mustang with a 2.3 and a T5 being sold very cheaply that you could buy whole and take everything you needed from, and there would still be some other expense most likely for little stuff. but the other side to that is you could probably make more money parting out the leftovers and end up either breaking even or coming out ahead. If you have a place and tools to do that.
Russ

I don't have the time, nor the facilities to be able to go through the process of finding an old Mustang, strippinng it for needed items, and then parting it out. Wish I did as this sounds lime a cost effective option.
When you say the T5 conversion would run close to $1000, are we talking a new trans. In my research about these trans, I've seen videos about T5 upgrades and they look new. Is this correct?

dga57 · « **Reply #53 on:** August 30, 2014, 09:45:12 AM »

One last thought before you get into a conversion... have you checked with Green Sales? They specialize in obsolete Ford parts and might possibly have what you need. Worth a shot anyway!

Dwayne

AndrewG · « **Reply #54 on:** August 30, 2014, 10:08:51 AM »

Quote from: dga57 on August 30, 2014, 09:45:12 AM

One last thought before you get into a conversion... have you checked with Green Sales? They specialize in obsolete Ford parts and might possibly have what you need. Worth a shot anyway!

Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne, I give them a try.

AndrewG · « **Reply #55 on:** August 30, 2014, 10:19:25 AM »

Just did a search for the part on Green Sales site. No good, but I did send them an email? Let's see how they respond.
Thanks again for that tip.

dick1172762 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 30, 2014, 11:29:28 AM »

Racer Walsh use to sell a short throw shifter. You might try him and see if they have any in stock.

russosborne · « **Reply #57 on:** August 30, 2014, 06:32:53 PM »

Quote from: AndrewG on August 30, 2014, 09:04:45 AM

When you say the T5 conversion would run close to $1000, are we talking a new trans. In my research about these trans, I've seen videos about T5 upgrades and they look new. Is this correct?

The video may be showing a new or rebuilt trans. But new is way out of your budget. New you are talking well over $1000 just for the trans itself. Used here they run from $300 up. And that usually is just the trans, no bellhousing or other stuff. When you can find a 2.3 version. With no real guarantee that they are good other than the seller's word for it.
Junkyard trans cost a bit more than say a craigslist one, but they do come with a short warranty.

Really, given your budget, finding a new shifter seems the best way, with converting to an auto trans second.

What do other people who have those cars do for parts?

Russ

dga57 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 31, 2014, 02:31:26 AM »

Another place you might want to try is www.obsoletereliableparts.com. I saw their ad in the current Hemming Motor News and they say they specialize in 1949 - 1989 Ford parts.

Dwayne

Srt · « **Reply #59 on:** August 31, 2014, 03:53:47 AM »

Quote from: AndrewG on August 26, 2014, 07:40:43 AM

Thank you for that advice.

I found out through trial & error (40 years ago) !!! I had a couple of sources but they are not in business any longer.

Thanks for the post. I will replace the parts you recommended.
Any ideas regarding where to get those parts?

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Author Topic: Transmission for 1980 Ford Pinto (Read 19988 times)