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Author Topic: Pitted breaker points  (Read 4263 times)

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Offline oldcarpierre

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Pitted breaker points
« on: July 17, 2006, 09:17:05 PM »
Back in '79, my first Pinto ('73 2000cc) suffered from a chronic case of pitting breaker points.   I had to replace them every few weeks.   From what I remember, I was getting 13 volts to the coil when cranking, and 11 volts when running (it should be 6 volts when running).   The breaker points would pit in no time.  When they were due to be replaced, the engine would idle roughly.

Fast forward 27 years.   I have driven 750 miles since I picked up the new Pinto in April.   As far as I can tell, it had received a tune up shortly before I bought it and it purred like a kitten.   New spark plugs, wires, filters, etc.   Lately. it has been idling very badly.   I just checked the breaker points, and they are pitted.

Is this something that happens on every 2000cc engine?   Short of replacing breaker points with every third fill-up, is there a more permanent fix?

Thank you.
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2013 Ford Taurus out in the rain

Pintony

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 11:06:39 PM »
Hello oldcarpierre,
 Yes add a ballast resister inline to the coil.
 From Pintony

Offline oldcarpierre

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 06:44:35 AM »
Pintony,

I had done that in '79.   I had taken one of those resistors encased in ceramic from a late seventies Dodge.   It brought my voltage down to 6 Volts, but then it would not start anymore when cold.   I had to run a switch inside the car to bypass the resistor when cold cranking.   A real pain.   The car was destroyed shortly after, so I do not know if it was successful in preventing breaker points pitting.

It has been so long, I don't know where to check for the Voltage going through.   Does anyone know where I need to connect a Volt-meter?
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2013 Ford Taurus out in the rain

Offline goodolboydws

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 02:48:24 AM »
Check this:

(I'm reading through the 1971 Factory Pinto Car Shop Manual, in the ignition section, shortening what they say and paraphrasing. If it seems completely at odds with what you see in yours, good luck.)

Anyway, according to the text, yes, the actual running voltage used in the ignition system is reduced  by means of a RESISTANCE wire  placed in the circuit between the ignition switch and the ignition coil. This circuit is active when the ignition switch is in the RUNNING position, but is bypassed while the ignition switch is in the START position, ths applying full battery voltage for easier engine starting.

In cases where the engine will start but will not run with the switch in the running position, the resistance wire should be checked.  (I think that it makes sense to check it even though yours isn't bad enough to have a serious running problem-yet.)

To test the wire, connect a voltmeter so that it spans the gap when you disconnect the resistance wire coming from the switch, where it attaches to the coil. Now run a GOOD ground wire from the DISTRIBUTOR side of the coil to a GOOD ground.

With all accessories and light off, turn the ignition switch on.

If the voltmeter reading is between 6.6 and 4.5 Volts the resistance wire is ok.

If the voltage reading is greater than 6.6V or less than 4.5V, replace the wire. 

The problem then is to find a correct resistance wire or resistor and to replace the existing one, which may not be easy to do, because of how the old wire is an integral part of the wiring harness. 

In this 1971 manual they are telling you to drill a 1/2" hole in the dash panel (for access) 1" to the left of the centerline of the pad retainer grommet hole and 1" above that same holes' centerline, which puts the new hole on a diagonal between the large squared wiring hole and the pad retainer grommet hole.

The way that they present it, it's fairly involved, but the basic idea is to cut the red/green stripe wire on one side of the main connector, and the red/yellow wire on the side of the ignition wire connector (which is on the steering column, in the passenger compartment), attach BOTH the cut ends of each color wire to a service wire replacement, and then pass the new wire through the hole that you just drilled so that you will be able to connect it.

They go to great pains to tell you not to use anything but the service replacement service wire, and not to loop the resistance wire against itself due to possible heat problems from it's resistance, but I would assume that as long as it is the correct resistance any appropriate resistor could also be used instead if this "special" wire, with it's custom ends, (one of which is removeable, to allow it to pass through the hole, and meant to be used with bullet connectors), is not available.

The part number that they give for the service replacement is: C9AB-12250-A. 

After that is done, then they want you to cut the No. 16 PINK wire near to the printed circuit connector, and insulate both of the cut ends, to isolate the old wire.

I should say that the wiring colors are possibly going to change from one year to another, but the actual bypass technique and connector placement involving this circuit would most likely be similar, if not exact.

A couple more things that they mentioned in this section are:

 If the voltage regulator is set incorrectly, it can cause excessive pitting of the points.
Ditto if the radio condenser is installed to the distributor side of the coil .
Ditto if the igniton condenser is the improper capacitance.
Ditto if the engine is operated for an extended period of time "at speeds other than normal", whatever that is.

Offline oldcarpierre

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 06:50:20 PM »
Yikes!

Thank you for the info.

I remember hearing about the resistive wire used on Pintos instead of the ballast resistor when I first had this issue with Pinto #1 back in 1979.   Over time, the resistance went down, and the voltage went up.   Not one of Ford's better ideas.

I bought a shop manual earlier today and dropped the Pinto off at my local Ford dealer.   I figured that they would be able to read these instructions without getting a headache.   I am going to try to throw money at it instead.   That definitely sounds like it is over my abilities.

I will let you know how I made out, and how much poorer I am.
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2006, 07:13:54 PM »
You could, replace the points with a Mallory, or the likes, Electric distributer conversion kit.This kit would replace the points and would would never have to deal with them again.
Brad F
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Offline oldcarpierre

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2006, 11:49:03 AM »
Dear goodoldboysdws

I was way off.   I did not have a breaker points problem (at least it was not my main problem).   It turned out I had a vacuum leak at the carburetor gasket and the intake manifold.   I am $500 poorer, but I am back on the road.

Thanks for the help.
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Offline onefarmer

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2006, 05:01:49 PM »
Pintony,

I had done that in '79.   I had taken one of those resistors encased in ceramic from a late seventies Dodge.   It brought my voltage down to 6 Volts, but then it would not start anymore when cold.   

You most likely installed the resistor just before the coil so the resistor in in the circuit full time. When cranking the voltage would drop even further and not be enough to start. What you needed was to add a resistor bypass curcuit. Normal Batt voltage is about 13.6v reduced to ideally about 7.2 volts to the coil when running. When cranking the Batt voltage drops to maybe 9-10v. If this is reduced further by the resistor it may be as low as 4-6v. Add in the bypass and you get the full 9-10v for starting. 


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Offline goodolboydws

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 01:24:30 AM »
pierre,

$500 to figure out that you had vacuum leaks from the intake manifold and the base of the carb. and fix them?

Ford dealer or no, it sounds as if you should probably be shopping for a different garage. Now.

A competent and HONEST mechanic would usually be able to HEAR serious vacuum leak(s) on a running engine even without instruments and then be able to track it/them down fairly quickly on a simple 4 cylinder engine such as this one. And without hours of diagnostic time, that's way too much to pay for those vacuum related repairs you mentioned. Or did they do additional work? 

By the way, the resistance on wiring goes up over time, not down. It's the voltage that would have been dropping, not the other way 'round. 

Offline oldcarpierre

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Re: Pitted breaker points
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 07:40:21 PM »
$500 Canadian.   That is only about 150 to you...
1974 Medium Lime Yellow Pinto Sedan
14000 Miles - Unrestored Original in the garage
2013 Ford Taurus out in the rain