Current Classifieds

looking for parts
Date: 06/19/2020 02:32 pm
INTERIOR DELUX ARM RESTS - 2 PAIR

Date: 03/23/2018 09:23 pm
hubcaps

Date: 06/05/2018 09:13 pm
Holley 4bbl carb. & Offenhauser intake.

Date: 08/09/2018 07:49 am
1978 fuel sendng unit
Date: 05/27/2020 09:54 am
Oddsnends
Date: 12/20/2016 10:52 am
Free 2.0L Valve Cover

Date: 01/03/2023 04:27 pm
1973 Interior parts wanted
Date: 01/02/2017 11:02 pm
Bumpers
Date: 07/06/2018 04:47 pm
Pinto 4-spd transmissions
Date: 06/15/2018 09:15 am
Pinto Watch
Date: 06/22/2019 07:16 pm
1973 Pinto Wagon

Date: 05/06/2022 05:13 pm

Author Topic: battery bugaboo  (Read 3976 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
battery bugaboo
« on: August 02, 2006, 04:03:19 PM »
Had a two month old battery go to pot in my Pinto over the past couple of days. The previous battery died after only a year. So what are the chances of two batteries in a row having premature deaths?

Anyway, I changed the regulator out of suspicions. Was poking around and found that the black and yellow wire from the alternator to the solenoid was burned through at a connecter. The other two wires to the battery side of the solenoid have some homemade looking splices in them. Will do some soldering and shrink tubing later today.

Yesterday, I was doing a run and a few miles down the road I sniffed an electrical burning smell and then a few miles later a battery acid smell that was bad enough to make my skin itch and my fillings ache.

So was all of this stuff symptoms of causes of a bad battery?
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Offline 73pintogeek

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • FeedBack: +6/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • I love my `Lil Hoss !

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 04:31:37 PM »
Sound`s like an over-charging problem...regu lator more than likley!
Just my 2 cent`s...hope this help`s... ;D
Rex
A bad day workin` on my Pinto is better than a good day at work!

Offline Cookieboystoys

  • Eater of Cookies
  • PCCA Management Board
  • Pinto Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 2253
  • FeedBack: +59/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • It's All About The Pinto's! Baby!
    • Cookieboy's Toys on Facebook

  • Total Badges: 9
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Signature Topic Starter Poll Voter Photographer Windows User 1000 Posts Webmaster Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 05:28:35 PM »
I had a problem similar to this many many years ago...

battery problems and over charging... I forget what was done to stop the battery from over charging...

but I do recall it was about the same time the electrical wiring went up in flames and had to get a whole new harness...

seems to me we replaced alt, regulator, battery, etc...

could be that replacing the harness was the fix... happened in about 1988

hope it's nothing serious like mine was
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Offline Blacksheep22

  • Pinto Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 05:56:14 PM »
Find someone with a good volt ohm meter and hold it on the positive and negative posts of the battery, have someone else fire the car up and let it idle. Should show around battery voltage or a little higher. Tell them to gently start reving the car up, if the voltage goes up past 14.5 volts shut it off. The voltage should never go past 14.5 period. If it does its either the regulator or the wiring. My uncle has a 69 Chevy 4x4 that was having the same problem your having and had replaced EVERYTHING including the wiring and the regulators still kept going bad. I finaly just put a later model one on it and wired it in and eliminated the original regulator since the later ones have them built into the alternator. Dont know if there are any later model ford alternators that would swap as easy but if you cant fix it and arent worried about it being "original" might be something to consider. Hope this helps.
ps. You can put a GM alternator on there by some modifying but dont tell anyone else in here I mentioned using a GM part on a ford!  :lol:
71 Pinto Mini-Stock 1994 Track Champion
72 Pinto all original 63000
73 Pinto Wagon 2.0  4 Speed 8inch

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 09:14:15 PM »
Have a gauge cluster with volt meter. It will be the next thing that I add.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Offline onefarmer

  • Pinto Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 3
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 09:50:23 PM »
Yup, Had that happen back in the day. Cooked the battery pretty good. Replaced the regulator and the Batt and was back on the road. I was driving from Nashville Tn to home St.Johns Mi at the time, so it had a long time to cook.

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 09:11:27 PM »
Here's an update. Put a VOM and later the gauge cluster on the car. With the new battery and regulator, it holds a solid 13.5 volts at above about 1000 RPM. Will dip as low as 11.5 V at idle.

(Also the temp got up to 170 degrees. 50 psi of oil pressure, which is quite good since the rings seem to be in their very early death throes>)

Here's sort of a puzzler: the battery was too low to start the thing after sitting six days. I put a DMM ammeter between the ground cable and post and get 0.00 amps across there. ???

Yes, I did briefly open the door to turn on the light to see if the thing was working. It worked to 0.7 amps worth....
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Offline joecool85

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • thatraymond.com

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Webmaster Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2006, 06:25:03 AM »
Ok, here is the thing, if it's getting down to 11.5, your regulator or alternator isn't working.  Due to it being only below 1000rpm, I'd say the brushes in your alternator are worn down.  A fully charged battery should have 12.75volts on its own, 75% charge is 12.5 volts (thats where most cars are at all the time), 50% charge is about 12.25volts, and anything below 12volts you need a new battery.  This is with the car off and no load btw.  The alternator should be producing 13volts or more at idle and no more than 14.5volts maximum ever.  Newer cars hold it between 13.8-14.5volts all the time, older ones may dip to 13volts.  Hope that helps.  So like I said, you probably need a new alternator and regulator (or just a new style alt with reg built in) along with a battery.
Life is what you make it.
http://www.thatraymond.com

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2006, 12:02:43 PM »
The next day the battery voltage held in the 12.5 to 13.75 range. I just think that the battery was just way low on that first day. Still keeping my eyeball on the electricals.

Since then I attempted to replace the timing belt and now the thing barely runs. I think that I accidnetally slipped a cog tooth, but that's going to be another thread.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Offline goodolboydws

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • FeedBack: +17/-0

  • Total Badges: 3
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 10:01:21 PM »
Having had lots of battery/charging system problems over the years, I sympathize.

There is a fairly common alternator problem that can lead to a continuous battery drain condition with the engine shut off.  I've had this same thing happen to me on at least 2 different Ford cars for certain, and know of it happening to other people as well.  In my case, after the first experience, I remembered what to look for. It was a simple part in the alternator that was replaced by the local starter/alternator shop and the problem was solved. I'm thinking that it was the diode array itself, but it's been a long while since the last incident.

If I remember the charging scenario correctly, if ONLY one of 3 diodes in an array burns out, and the other 2 are still working, then the other 2 remaining ones have to work much harder to attempt to keep the battery fully charged.  This may be part of what you are smelling.
The low voltage only being present at 1000 engine RPM or below dovetails nicely with this theory. Especially if you weren't running a heavy electrical load from power hungry accessories, which would make the part time undercharging more obvious and not go away until the engine was at a higher rpm. 

 Passing on a tip from the alternator shop:
To see if this is what is actually draining your battery, try disconnecting the plug to the alternator over night, and check the battery voltage in the morning before trying to start the engine. Then leave the alternator connected over night the next night and compare the 2 readings.

If you have an intermittant problem with the part just starting to fail in the alternator, it may take a while before the problem surfaces again. This is what made it take a while to figure out on one of my cars. It didn't happen every day, but only occasionally at first, and then more and more frequently.

Something simple that gets overlooked in seaching for a charging related problem is poor electrical grounds, like from a broken or deteriorated wire that appears ok from the outside, or from a corroded terminal or an insufficient electrical contact due to dirt or rust.  Check yours, and clean or replace any that may be questionable.

One more thing, an alternators' output is dependent upon the ACTUAL speed at which the alternator itself is revolving, and is NOT completely dependent on the engines' speed, so if for some reason you have an incorrectly sized pulley on the alternator itself OR on the pulley that is driving that one, the alternator can be spinning at a VERY different speed than it should be, and it's output at any given engine RPM may be way out of spec as a result.  A more common reason for having a SLOWLY discharging battery (like over a week, BUT with the car being started and driven each day for example) is simply having too low of an idle speed setting.

Offline robw

  • Pinto Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
  • FeedBack: +0/-0
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 3
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 01:21:07 AM »
i had a similar problem on my pinto when I bought it,my old man said it was the diodes in the alternator were shot so he gave me another alternator to try but still the same thing. I bought a new voltage regulator just for giggles and threw it in but make sure it is bolted to the body or has a good ground before you plug it in or it will burn it up. that seemed to fix my problem.maybe it is the same as yours.hope it helps.

Offline goodolboydws

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • FeedBack: +17/-0

  • Total Badges: 3
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2006, 07:11:15 AM »
It was a long day yesterday.
 I forgot that on many older cars the alternator wires are generally all attached individually and not as a plug, but you still have to disconnect them or the nearest connector (if there is one) that is allowing current to flow "backwards" through the alternator.
Be careful whenever attaching or detatching the individual alternator wires as the battery is always supposed to be disconnected when you do this, to keep from possibly damaging the alternator or voltage regulator (which may be how it happened to begin with).  It's easier to simply disconnect the battery cable itself overnight, but that won't tell you WHERE the drain is coming from.

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 09:02:20 PM »
The Pinto started right up after sitting for six days and held the voltage between 13 and 14. I hope that I'm over the worse of it.

I'm still going to yank the alternator out and bench test it for giggles when I get around to it.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Offline dholvrsn

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • FeedBack: +4/-0
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 6
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Tenth year Anniversary Poll Voter 1000 Posts Fifth year Anniversary
Re: battery bugaboo
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2006, 02:39:11 PM »
Update, I may have found a contributing problem. The AC/heater motor may be seized or shorted.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser