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Offline pintoches

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Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« on: May 13, 2010, 10:32:53 PM »
72 2.0 wagon

Going to change the oil before I start driving it. Do I need zinc?  What is the best oil Oreillys carries I can get it in?
Or should I just add it?
Also do I need lead for the gas?
Ches Lathim
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Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 12:39:23 AM »
I'm running 20W 50 in my 73's 2.0. Running with unleaded, I hope it's okay. I know the 20w 50 has enough zinc in it for it, although it's like syrup when cold.
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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 08:09:49 PM »
just because it is 20w50 doesn't mean it has zinc, if it has that starburst on the bottle it doesn't contain zinc. even the 15w40 diesel oil has lower zinc levels now. go to a speed shop and get racing oil, they should have whatever weight you need.
if you have the stock valve seats the unleaded will overheat them and beat them to death. add lead!!
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 08:25:14 PM »
no starburst on the oil i used.

Thanks for the info about the unleaded, looks like it's time to start adding lead!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline blupinto

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 10:24:16 PM »
I've been buying up Kragen-O'Reilly's Casite brand Lead Substitute every chance I get. It's getting harder to find nowadays. Tell me more about why I need zinc in my motor oil. The Pinto owner's manuals suggest 10W30.
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Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 10:43:36 PM »
How much is it to have hardened seats installed on the 2.0 head? I may just opt to do that when I go to rebuild the valve train. I want to do the stem seals and cam seal.
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I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline 78squirewagon

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 06:39:29 AM »
Is there an additive you can put in the oil since it's hard to find an oil change place that does not carry the older stuff

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Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 06:52:32 AM »
the 2.0 has a solid lift cam and the zinc provides protection to the cam lobes and rockers.
I don't know if there is any zinc additive that you can buy to add to the oil. You may want to take your own oil when you have it changed.
I would guess about 100 bucks extra to have the seats replaced.  :)
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline pintoches

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Ches Lathim
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 12:04:08 PM »
Go to your GM dealer and ask for a can of EOS. Its pure zinc and has been at Gm for 50 or more years. Used it since 1962 in all my race cars.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 05:09:42 PM »
I have heard it said both ways about no lead in the gas.  Some say they put 80,000 miles on a 60's/70's era motor and never had a problem.  Others complain that they have seen the seats trashed during a rebuild.  I guess it just depends on the manufacture.

Regarding the oil and additives.  It use to be that Rotella had enough zinc because it was for diesel engines.  I have heard they have reduced it.   If you have a 2.3 you can always get a roller cam out of a Ranger/Mustang.

I think the best thing to do is to see if others have torn apart a 2.0 and can attest to seat or lobe/rocker damage (that can't be attributed to a clogged spray bar).  Sometimes we can get all wrapped up in theory rather than experience.  I can't say for sure either way for the 2.0, but how long has non-lead fuel been the only thing available?  And, how long have people been using oil with no or little anti scuff metals?

So, unless there is a epidemic of 2.0 damage it might not be something to worry about.  I mean, be wise and do what you can but it likely isn't going to get much better regarding availability of this stuff.

That said, I put a new cam in my 318 Valiant and used Rotella and GM- EOS (which I hear, but can't confirm, is no longer available). 2,500 RPM for 20 minutes and it broke in just fine.
Tom

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 05:32:39 PM »
STP also says it has a very high zinc content. I've used it for 50 years and never lost a cam.
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Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 08:36:20 PM »
From the owners manual for my 73 Wagon:

"All 1973 engines are designed to operate on "regular" gasoline with a research octane rating of at least 91 when the engine is adjusted to factory recommended specifications . At some service stations, gasoline is designated by a symbol with a number in the center. Where this symbol method is used, gasoline is at a rating of at least #2.

To obtain best performance with these fuels, it is important to have the maintenance services performed at the recommended intervals.

If you plan to drive you vehicle outside the United States or Canada, check into the quality of gasoline available in the area you expect to visit."


Does this "regular" or "rating #2" gasoline they spoke of in 1973 now known as unleaded regular gasoline today?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline dga57

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2010, 09:07:36 PM »
Nope... it was leaded.  1975 was the year new cars in the U.S. began requiring unleaded gasoline.  I owned a handful of independent filling stations in the mid to late seventies and we offered Regular, Premium, and Unleaded.  Of course I purchased my fuel according to demand and an 8000 gallon tanker was usually proportioned out at 5000 gallons of Regular, 2000 gallons of Premium, and 1000 gallons of Unleaded.  That was fairly consistent until I sold the business in 1978.  Not sure what year all fuels became unleaded.  All that being said, I ran mostly Sunoco gasoline in my new 1974 Pinto because I was dating a girl whose family owned a Sunoco station.  By the time I ventured into the gas station business, I had bought a 1973 Lincoln Continental with a 460 V-8 and the previous owner told me he had never run anything in it except Amoco gasoline, which was unleaded years before the others.  So, that's what I ran in it, and when I got rid of it there had been no problems from the unleaded fuel at all and it was at about 90,000 miles.

Dwayne :smile:
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Offline pintoches

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2010, 10:36:18 PM »
Did some price checking today. the cheapest oil and the zinc additive. is like $26. Valvoline race oil is $22 for 5 Qts
 
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Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2010, 10:48:10 PM »
Yeah, the zinc additive isn't cheap at all, I found that out when I bought new oil for the wagon!
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I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline 71pintoracer

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 07:07:18 AM »
At our local speed shop they have or can get most any weight you want, of course 20w/50 is the most popular but I got 10w40. It has almost double the zinc content of what used to be in oil. It was about .20 higher than what non-zinc oil cost at the parts store.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Offline Starliner

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2010, 09:44:15 PM »
I don't recommend the lead additives.   It leaves deposits and promotes spark knocking.  Just run you car with the normal unleaded fuel.   
Stay away from ethenol blends if possible, less power & mileage and it could deteriorate some fuel system components. 

The best thing you can do for long valve life is to adjust the valves regularly.   A "tight" valve adjustment (where the valve does not close all the way) will cause it to run hot and burn.   Everytime the valve closes, the valve contacts the valve seat and promotes cooling.  If the valve is not fully closing it will run hot.   Also your compression will start to drop. 
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Offline dave1987

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2010, 10:00:47 PM »
I was thinking about the deposits thing yesterday. I was really thinking I would just stay with unleaded fuel, and getting a valve adjustment done ASAP, keeping them nice and tight.
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I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Offline ToniJ1960

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 05:35:01 AM »
 I know Im late into this discussion. But I always wondered about this. I read ford calls for a special additive I used to know the ford # for it too. It was zinc dialkydithiosp hosphate. I always added a bottle of `motor honey` with my oil change it had that in it but I dont have any idea how much is in it.

 Now does someone know the reason for having this or any form of zinc in the oil? Is it so theres already zinc in the oil and it wont react with zinc in the motor? I recall some solder had a little copper added in so it wouldnt eat copper soldering iron tips up.

 One more thing I wonder about zinc additives,wil it affect an oil analysis?

Offline 69GT

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 08:57:50 PM »
  I use about 3 oz of this stuff in my tank every time I fill up. Works great on my 2.0.

http://www.mwfi.com/Fuel-Additives/Lucas_InjectorCleaner.htm

You can buy big bottles of this stuff at parts stores...

Offline 78squirewagon

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2010, 02:55:34 PM »
  I use about 3 oz of this stuff in my tank every time I fill up. Works great on my 2.0.

http://www.mwfi.com/Fuel-Additives/Lucas_InjectorCleaner.htm

You can buy big bottles of this stuff at parts stores...

I put a bottle in at each fill up (which is not that often)  I bought a big and small bottle so that I could get a close measurment each time and the big bottle was cheaper in the long run.Just kept the small one as a measuring tool  ;D
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2013, 06:45:18 PM »
I know Im late into this discussion. But I always wondered about this. I read ford calls for a special additive I used to know the ford # for it too. It was zinc dialkydithiosp hosphate. I always added a bottle of `motor honey` with my oil change it had that in it but I dont have any idea how much is in it.

 Now does someone know the reason for having this or any form of zinc in the oil? Is it so theres already zinc in the oil and it wont react with zinc in the motor? I recall some solder had a little copper added in so it wouldnt eat copper soldering iron tips up.

 One more thing I wonder about zinc additives,wil it affect an oil analysis?

Holy babeJesus thread-revival, BatMan!!!

Yes...Zinc DDPP is required for a flat-tappett cam because it...turns into a 'metal-plating' at normal operating temp. Think 'Chrome'. I have personally witnessed the transformation . It's required.

Yes, an oil change is +$10, but that's way cheaper than a camshaft. ;) Add the additive, those who are likewise rebuilt. :) My cam-wear went from 'wow?' to...'Oooooh...shiny!!!'

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2013, 10:19:32 PM »
Try the  Quaker State Defy it has the added zinc etc...Do not use 20/ 50 oil use 10W/20W, 10W/30W unless your in Alaska etc...

Offline tbucketjack

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 11:18:09 PM »
I use 15 w 45 Rotella or Motorcraft brand diesel oil and I use lead additive to my fuel.

Offline amc49

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Re: Oil Zinc / lead gas ?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 02:00:46 AM »
Give up trying to stop valve recession with unleaded fuel. It cannot be done, the 'lead' additive you can buy really does nothing. True lead additive is so poisonous it cannot be sold over the counter. You CAN get the zinc, but you'll know that too by the extra cost, to be able to market it the oil makers had to agree to pay a fee to EPA, why that oil is so expensive and specifically marked as for 'off highway use ONLY'. People used diesel oil for a while, now EPA is forcing that zinc content out too. Mainly because the carrier is zincdithiophos phate, the phosphate is what EPA wants off the highway.

At this time, one of the best zinc oils is Valvoline for motorcycle, EPA not worried about bikes yet, not enough of them. But again, you will pay through the nose for the oil.

Even the newest engines show some small amount of recession, my Zetec Focus cars show it at 100K miles. Pull head and freshen up exhaust seats and the quickest 10% HP increase you ever saw. No need to touch the intakes.