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Offline entropy

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Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« on: August 26, 2014, 01:10:39 AM »
So, my '72 V8 car is running a regular 60's Mustang style front sump pan which had been clearanced by the original builder.  Some of it was done by hammer work and one small area on the driver's side was done by a cut and a patch that was welded in place.  All those years of basically feeler-gauge levels of clearance between that patched area and the rack has finally caused a crack to form and part of the weld to fail, and now it's leaking like that's its job.  The obvious fix is to pull the engine and repair or replace the pan....but unfortunately, I can't do that for quite a while.  So I'm stuck with solutions that can be done with the car up on jackstands.  So far my attempts to MacGuyver it with JB Weld putty (failed in the first 5 miles of driving) and Permatex's THe Right Stuff (it's already leaking hours after bolting the rack in back in place) have not gone well.  Anybody got any ideas?  How close to impossible would it be to pull the pan with the engine, rack and Hooker swap headers in place?

The goal is to affect enough of a repair to hold it together until I can afford to pull the engine in a year or two....
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline Srt

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 03:06:53 AM »
I think you have to stage a "Pull The Pan Party" and get as many So-Cal Pinto Freaks to spend a day doing whatever needs to be done!


You provide the vehicle!



That said; I have Tuesdays & Wednesdays off!
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 05:04:31 PM »
Doubt you can pull the engine with headers on (and you wouldn't want/need to anyway).

I know I can pull an engine in 2-3 hours, by myself.
Hard to say one line how I do it.

No cost to pull it.

Cost after it's out is small. New header gaskets & welding the pan, if you do not have a welder....new pan gaskets.
In all, less than the cost of a tank of gas.

Pull it & do it right.

Offline HOSS429

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 07:35:25 PM »
after you make the fix use a washer or two to raise the engine a bit ( between the mount and the block ) .. bought my first ever V8 pinto swap back for chump change cause the owner said it had a knock in the motor .. two hammers strokes to the side of the pan fixed that ...

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 03:59:22 AM »
Doubt you can pull the engine with headers on (and you wouldn't want/need to anyway).

I know I can pull an engine in 2-3 hours, by myself.
Hard to say one line how I do it.

No cost to pull it.

Cost after it's out is small. New header gaskets & welding the pan, if you do not have a welder....new pan gaskets.
In all, less than the cost of a tank of gas.

Pull it & do it right.

The problem is that, at the moment, I don't own a cherry picker or an engine stand, nor do I have anyplace I can store said engine once it's out while I do the work and clean it up.  This is, at the moment, a car on jackstands, making due with hand-tools, at a house I don't own, doing repairs with no money kind of deal.  Hence the looking to hack it together well enough to last until I'm working and can do it right.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 10:43:38 AM »
I repaired a cracked fuel tank in my semi years ago that lasted 300,000 plus miles with aluminum foil & JB Weld.   
 
I roughed up an area way larger than the crack with 80 grit, got it spotless with lacquer thinner then spread a layer of epoxy over an area an inch larger than the crack & put a piece of thick Reynolds wrap over the epoxy & squeegeed it to remove air bubbles but not hard enough to remove the epoxy.
 
I repeated this 2 more times expanding the patch by an inch each time letting it thoroughly dry each time. This repair held back 150 gallons of diesel fuel for years without a leak & it was on the bottom of the tank.
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Offline dga57

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 12:11:47 AM »
Sounds like a simple enough repair!
 
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 01:49:47 AM »
Sounds like a simple enough repair!
 
Dwayne :)

Yeah....that's what I thought the first time I tried to repair it.  And the second.  I'll let you know after the third...
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2014, 02:38:17 PM »
The problem is that, at the moment, I don't own a cherry picker or an engine stand, nor do I have anyplace I can store said engine once it's out while I do the work and clean it up.  This is, at the moment, a car on jackstands, making due with hand-tools, at a house I don't own, doing repairs with no money kind of deal.  Hence the looking to hack it together well enough to last until I'm working and can do it right.

Hey, that is my line.  ;D

I feel your pain. That is exactly the same situation that I am in. :(

I'm surprised that the JB Weld didn't work. This is just a wild ash thought. Do you have a propane torch? Maybe you could solder the crack. It would have to be spotless with no oil at all for it to even have a chance. I don't know if this is even possible, but maybe someone else can chime in.

On second thought, I really like Pinto 5.0's idea. JB Weld really does work, the surface has to be totally free of any oil though.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
74 Pinto Wagon.  To be or Not to be a Pinchero, that is the question.

Offline tjm73

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 09:41:28 PM »
Can you weld or do you have friends that can? Reproduction early oil pans are cheap. Buy a cheapy, clearance it and swap the pans. Ask a local trade school if they could do the modification if you supply the parts and instructions.

I'd bet you can get a used pan off eBay real cheap or a fellow member may even give you one.

If you "fix it till you can really fix it" and it holds, you will most likely never really fix it.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2014, 09:25:54 PM »
Yeah....that's what I thought the first time I tried to repair it.  And the second.  I'll let you know after the third...

Any update?
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
74 Pinto Wagon.  To be or Not to be a Pinchero, that is the question.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 02:13:11 PM »
There is no cheap Mustang II V-8 oil pan.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2014, 05:58:12 PM »
There is no cheap Mustang II V-8 oil pan.

Yes there is. Maybe. I have one that has no numbers left. Blasted & checked for pin holes : none.
It came on Ugly Yellow. Someone in the past painted over rust & looked like the rust continued under paint.
No rust left after blasting.
Painted Ford blue.
I'll never use it.
If someone has good pictures of one, PM me for my e-mail, so I can compare.
I already gave the Mll frame mounts away for the same reason: I'd never use them.

Better pans "out there" than the Mll pans.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2014, 06:13:23 PM »
Looking on this site: http://www.mustangiitech.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=57

Quote
Milodon oil pan (PN 30925) and pickup (PN 18375) will fit a 289 / 302 installed in the Mustang II


http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street-oil-pans-ford73.asp

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2014, 11:29:01 AM »
That's a loooong way from being cheap.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2014, 08:05:08 PM »
True....but if the other pan I have is a true Mll pan, I'd let it go cheap.

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2014, 10:40:27 AM »
So how cheap is cheap for the Mustang II pan????
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2014, 08:13:26 PM »
I'd have to take pictures of it to confirm it is an Mll pan (post them here).
I also saved the pick up.

Keeping in mind it is NOT smooth steel, due to past rusting......m aybe $50.00 + shipping ?
Not worth much to me, and I know 100% that I'd never use it.

However...... I would rather it go to a person that really needs it, rather than someone who merely wants to get it for re-sale to make money.
That is why I posted it here, in case it could help entropy, due to limited funds........o r someone in need.

All my cars get the Milodon pan. More oil is a good thing.

Offline bad bean

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2014, 11:03:54 PM »
Not sure why you didn't put a mustang ll pan on it anyway. But you could try draining oil then clean well put jb weld high heat knead it well push in Crack

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2014, 04:59:48 AM »
Hey, that is my line.  ;D

I feel your pain. That is exactly the same situation that I am in. :(

I'm surprised that the JB Weld didn't work. This is just a wild ash thought. Do you have a propane torch? Maybe you could solder the crack. It would have to be spotless with no oil at all for it to even have a chance. I don't know if this is even possible, but maybe someone else can chime in.

On second thought, I really like Pinto 5.0's idea. JB Weld really does work, the surface has to be totally free of any oil though.

Russ

Yeah...after I drained it, I let it sit for half a week to completely drain out, then hit it with everything from lacquer thinner to brake cleaner....and apparently it wasn't enough to get all the Mobil 1 off...
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 05:01:57 AM »
Can you weld or do you have friends that can? Reproduction early oil pans are cheap. Buy a cheapy, clearance it and swap the pans. Ask a local trade school if they could do the modification if you supply the parts and instructions.

I'd bet you can get a used pan off eBay real cheap or a fellow member may even give you one.

If you "fix it till you can really fix it" and it holds, you will most likely never really fix it.

Swapping pans isn't really an option without pulling the engine...and I don't have the ability to pull the engine right now.  As for never really fixing it, that would happen a few years down the road when my financial and living situation allow me to pull the engine and go bigger.....but that time is not now.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2014, 05:03:39 AM »
Any update?
Thanks,
Russ

Yup....still boned.  Between being broke, demoralized and ambient temps in the 3 digit range, I haven't yet attempted halfassed repair #3 yet....but I will fairly soon.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2014, 05:04:49 AM »
Yes there is. Maybe. I have one that has no numbers left. Blasted & checked for pin holes : none.
It came on Ugly Yellow. Someone in the past painted over rust & looked like the rust continued under paint.
No rust left after blasting.
Painted Ford blue.
I'll never use it.
If someone has good pictures of one, PM me for my e-mail, so I can compare.
I already gave the Mll frame mounts away for the same reason: I'd never use them.

Better pans "out there" than the Mll pans.

If you've got the oil pump pickup that goes with it, I'd love to talk price with you...
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2014, 05:07:42 AM »
Not sure why you didn't put a mustang ll pan on it anyway. But you could try draining oil then clean well put jb weld high heat knead it well push in Crack

Because I didn't do the swap.  That's the pan they used when they built the car in the 80's

As for draining oil/cleaning well/JB Weld suggestion.... .that's exactly what failed repair #1 consisted of.  The epoxy popped right off after a 10 minute drive.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2014, 05:20:44 AM »
Wish I was closer. I'd help you out with pulling the engine & getting this done for you.
Not really a big job , nor does it take long.
Nothing for me to take out/install an engine a half dozen times a day , when fitting one. By myself.

In regards to the pan/pick up.....PM being sent.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2014, 10:31:19 PM »
Wish I was closer. I'd help you out with pulling the engine & getting this done for you.
Not really a big job , nor does it take long.
Nothing for me to take out/install an engine a half dozen times a day , when fitting one. By myself.

In regards to the pan/pick up.....PM being sent.

I appreciate it, my friend.  I'll find a way.  I'm starting to dig through craigslist to see if I can't dig up a cheap engine stand and possibly a cherry picker.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 10:26:27 PM »
Well, you have to have the cherry picker, you can get by without a stand if you have to.
Sucks, but you can pull the pan while it is on the hoist. Remember, I did say it sucks. But without the hoist you won't need a stand, unless you are thinking about borrowing or renting one. Renting is ok, I used to do it a lot back in the 80's, but you need a friend with a truck to get it home and back if you don't own one yourself.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
74 Pinto Wagon.  To be or Not to be a Pinchero, that is the question.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2014, 06:25:33 PM »
Well, you have to have the cherry picker, you can get by without a stand if you have to.
Sucks, but you can pull the pan while it is on the hoist. Remember, I did say it sucks. But without the hoist you won't need a stand, unless you are thinking about borrowing or renting one. Renting is ok, I used to do it a lot back in the 80's, but you need a friend with a truck to get it home and back if you don't own one yourself.

Russ

Yeah...I meant possibly buy one instead of renting one.  I've found some used ones cheaper than a rental....the only thing holding me back is transporting it from the seller to where the car in my SRT 4...
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline entropy

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2014, 10:17:14 PM »
Update.  Picked up a really nice 2-ton cherry picker for next to nothing today....so looks like fixing it right may be able to happen after all.
1972 "Hoonabout"
SBF swap
8" rear 4.11 posi
T-5 trans
10 point rollcage
Single stage NOS Cheater system

275 rwhp 350 lb/ft on motor.....some thing a bit more than that on the spray.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Pan Problems: V8 edition!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2014, 11:44:05 PM »
sounds like you are on your way to a no leak engine. :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
74 Pinto Wagon.  To be or Not to be a Pinchero, that is the question.