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Offline FracMonkey

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Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« on: April 02, 2014, 03:18:35 PM »
Decided to change the points out with an electronic ignition system.  Wanted to go w/ the Pertronix but they discontinued that part number.  I was introduced to Hot Spark Products.  After several days and many dead ends, i have come to the conclusion that the product is just plain bad.  Initial install and set up only took about 15 min.  Chasing the intermittent misfire was a nightmare.  The product is really simple which leads to the problem......  the area of the ring that is to replace the ramp of the points system is not built to allow for any...... and i mean ANY play in the distributor shaft.  I removed the distributor and installed new bushings.  Misfire still there....  This thing is so sensitive, when the vacuum advance activates the rotation plate, it moves the ring and pickup ever so slightly out of position.  Thus, the misfire. 

I put the points back in and it runs great again.

FracMonkey

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 05:37:26 PM »
This is slightly disheartening. I just installed mine today. Out of curiosity, did you change the coil to one with the recommended 3 ohm resistance?

I went with a stock replacement coil from a late 60s model VW (Commonly called a 'Bosch Blue coil', I guess cause it's blue). The stock coil for a Pinto is 1.5 ohms. I checked with my multimeter. :)

My distributor is a fresh rebuild.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 05:40:25 PM »
I went with a Duraspark distributor and used an HEI module, works great just need to re work the curve a bit.
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 05:45:59 PM »
I went with a Duraspark distributor and used an HEI module, works great just need to re work the curve a bit.

I didn't see where he mentioned it, but 2.0 owners have limited options. The only way we can get EI distributors is from the UK, unless you know something I don't. lol ;) My dad did the GM HEI ignition module conversion to a mid-80's F150 he had, worked great!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 05:52:17 PM »
I didn't see where he mentioned it, but 2.0 owners have limited options. The only way we can get EI distributors is from the UK, unless you know something I don't. lol ;) My dad did the GM HEI ignition module conversion to a mid-80's F150 he had, worked great!
LOL, you guys know way more about these things than I do I'm just learning about these toy motors,lol, so a 2.3 unit don't fit a 2.0, I thought the blocks were the same???..
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 06:18:39 PM »
Oh, no. I digress before I go into a rant about the differences. :) lol

On topic, I would like to add that I checked for voltage on the stock feed to the + terminal of the coil, and found it to be 11.9 or so volts KOEO, and 13.6 or so KOER. I checked the 'I' terminal on the solenoid, and find the same voltages. I found this odd because that reads like my 'resistor wire' doesn't seem to be resisting much.

I wish I hadn't waited so long to install this conversion...a ssuming it's not a dud...it runs at the bump of a key, and idles so very smooth. :) lol But, I do have 2 sets of points/condensors standing by, jic. :)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 09:26:05 PM »
I always keep a spare HEI mogule in the glove box just in case, so far I've never had to use one.
Art
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Offline FracMonkey

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 11:06:21 AM »
jeremysdad.... .. yes i replaced the coil with the recommended 3ohm ( Blue ) coil. With the electronic ignition the coil seemed to work well.  I took it out when i put the points back in and reinstalled the factory coil.  I did notice my aftermarket tach ( Sunpro ) went nuts with the 3ohm coil.  It bounced everywhere.


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Offline amc49

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 10:57:53 PM »
I would look at the airgap between the sensor and the black rotating part. They on their website claim the normal gap at .040" and looser than any I've ever seen, that's just plain crazy. WAY too loose, I've seen other more expensive sensors read erratically and nowhere near that loose. If distributor bushings were changed then set gap at say .015" with the distributor shaft pushed one way to minimize that gap. The looser that gap is, the less consistent the blips the sensor sees are, too loose and it begins to miss some of them from being too weak and your misfire. I run that close on every electronic unit I get my hands on, regardless of brand. You just have to make sure the two parts cannot touch, which would result in destruction of them both.

Basic electronic ignition tune-up trick on every one out there......... .............r un that gap CLOSE. Whatever is used in there to switch, either magnetic coil or hall transistor, works much more consistently with closer airgap.

Too loose may be why the tach went crazy, it could not read all the impulses there. Could as well be why when vac advance moves plate it quits running right. The vacuum plate must be stable as well.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 02:51:36 PM »
jeremysdad...... yes i replaced the coil with the recommended 3ohm ( Blue ) coil. With the electronic ignition the coil seemed to work well.  I took it out when i put the points back in and reinstalled the factory coil.  I did notice my aftermarket tach ( Sunpro ) went nuts with the 3ohm coil.  It bounced everywhere.


FracMonkey

I just finally test drove mine earlier, and so far, "Wow!" is all I can say. So smooth, and such great throttle response!

Did you run a new power wire to your coil, and if not, did you measure the voltage you were getting to the + side of the coil? If you reused the stock power source, you may only be getting 9 volts at the coil in 'run' due to the resistor, which would probably cause the miss you were seeing.

I think the full battery voltage that I'm seeing from the 'stock' setup was probably burning my points, resulting in my having to adjust/file them so frequently.

So far, over a 100 mile interstate round-trip, mine performed beautifully. They do have a 3 year warranty, so you could always try a warranty swap. I did find procedures to test the module (to determine if it was bad) on their site. Link (Page 4): http://www.hot-spark.com/Troubleshooting.pdf

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 06:22:51 PM »
A follow up:

Have put another 300+ miles on the car since I converted and have had no issues. Today I re-filled the tank, and my mileage went from 18-19(points) to 23.5(with conversion).

Some of that is warmer weather, I know, but even still...the car runs so much better, and perhaps more importantly... consistently.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 10:59:07 PM »
That's great congrats.. 8)
Art
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Offline FracMonkey

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 08:26:05 AM »
Good to hear you had success.  Ill take another shot at it in a few days and see if i can get it to run right.

FracMonkey

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 05:11:12 PM »
I would test the module itself (instructions at the link in my earlier post) with a DMM before you try to install it. And make sure that it's getting 12 volts at the + on the coil (stock setup should only be 7-9, cause it's stepped down via resistor).

As with any electronics, you very well could have received a dud module, it does happen.

I'm currently putting 80 miles per day on mine to and from work, so it's getting a good workout. I'll post if I have any issues. So far, it seems to have been a great deal. :) (I do still have a backup points/condensor and the old coil in the car jic. lol)

Good luck with yours!

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 05:32:24 PM »
A follow up:

Have put another 300+ miles on the car since I converted and have had no issues. Today I re-filled the tank, and my mileage went from 18-19(points) to 23.5(with conversion).

Some of that is warmer weather, I know, but even still...the car runs so much better, and perhaps more importantly... consistently.

Most gas stations are off winter blend fuels now. That's probably responsible for a few mpg's. Winter blends kill mileage.
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2014, 06:24:19 PM »
Winter blend is a thing of the past now. They're at least 10% year round.

Winter blend used to be the 10% ethanol (pre-installed heat). Our local gas station sells 3 grades of regular: 10%, 5%, and 100% gasoline, all 87 octane.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2014, 07:32:07 PM »
I thought 100% gas was outlawed because we were paying huge subsidies to corporate mega farms to grow corn for ethanol & kickback some cash to politicians coffers?
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Offline amc49

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2014, 09:06:06 PM »
Usually only in EPA branded emission 'non-attainment' areas around bigger population centers, some lucky stiffs still get the good stuff. Like 7 of those emission areas here in Texas but not all of the state has forced use ethanol.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2014, 10:05:54 PM »
I'm in a "non-smog" area and we have the same gas as any smog area.
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 04:43:56 AM »
We have smog testing here, but it is a farming area, so maybe that's why we still get it? If you have Co-Op stores around you, check there. All our Co-Op sells is 100% gas in all 3 grades. :)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 07:56:56 AM »
Could be because of farm equipment maybe, if they still use gas???, no Co-Op stores here unfortunately. .
Art
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Offline stormy69

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2014, 02:29:26 AM »
I am curious if there is a duraspark dizzy that fits the 1.6 kent motor?

Offline chrisf1219

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2014, 01:03:44 PM »
hello all I guess there is a advantage to having a 77 2.3 cause it already came with the durospark and hei. the only problem I ever had was when the original control module went out.put a new module in and have been good ever since. chris
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Offline rramjet

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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ignition Conversion........ kinda
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2014, 12:49:54 PM »
I put one of their kits in my VW bug and it worked great.
Art
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