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Author Topic: EFI engine up too high  (Read 3481 times)

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Offline dianne

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EFI engine up too high
« on: June 08, 2015, 07:13:34 AM »
Did anyone here have a problem with the engine being too high and hitting the hood? Did you all put a scoop on it to have the clearance?

Wiring is now coming up, ouch. That one is a pain it looks like.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Pintocrazed

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2015, 07:31:25 AM »
IF I REMEMBER RIGHT I READ ON HERE AND OTHER SIGHTS THAT THERE IS A UPPER PART WHERE THE THROTLLE BODY BOLTS THAT IS SHORTER.THATS THE END OF MY KNOWLEDGE ON IT

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 11:58:57 AM »
IF I REMEMBER RIGHT I READ ON HERE AND OTHER SIGHTS THAT THERE IS A UPPER PART WHERE THE THROTLLE BODY BOLTS THAT IS SHORTER.THATS THE END OF MY KNOWLEDGE ON IT

Looks like I have to add a scoop where the EFI components are since it's up higher.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 02:11:41 PM »
Just break the bank, go to sidedraft throttle bodies. It'll bring the Coool factor to a new level.  ;)
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Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 02:54:37 PM »
Just cut & weld the upper elbow like the turbo guys do to shorten it & aim the throttle body towards the front.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
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Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 03:10:15 PM »
Just break the bank, go to sidedraft throttle bodies. It'll bring the Coool factor to a new level.  ;)

No thanks, a hood scoop is cheaper :P
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 10:28:15 PM »
The 87-88 T/C's have a lower valve cover (center part) and thus a lower throttle body. That said, I had to shave down the upper TB and intake mating surface to the point that I was concern I'd show threads (see front upper bolt hole) and there is still only 1/16" clearance with the hood. Not sure if later Pinto's had more clearance than my '73.

 You can see glue in the picture where I had a thin piece of closed cell foam about 1/8" thick. It had to go because it caused more vibration than it eliminated. It's that close. Internally the hood drops to the side/front very fast. I cut down the "D" shaped projection on the top of the intake, and  I even had to round off the vacuum tap too.

Nothing like a little clay or plumbers putty, a watchful eye and a gentle hood closure to detect the high spots.

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 06:39:35 AM »
The 87-88 T/C's have a lower valve cover (center part) and thus a lower throttle body. That said, I had to shave down the upper TB and intake mating surface to the point that I was concern I'd show threads (see front upper bolt hole) and there is still only 1/16" clearance with the hood. Not sure if later Pinto's had more clearance than my '73.

 You can see glue in the picture where I had a thin piece of closed cell foam about 1/8" thick. It had to go because it caused more vibration than it eliminated. It's that close. Internally the hood drops to the side/front very fast. I cut down the "D" shaped projection on the top of the intake, and  I even had to round off the vacuum tap too.

Nothing like a little clay or plumbers putty, a watchful eye and a gentle hood closure to detect the high spots.

It's up high. I don't have my 73 here to see what's going on between the two. The engine is really up high though Witts. I'm thinking I'll just cut out some of the hood and add a scoop for it instead of playing with the engine to get it in. This is from a Fox Body mustang, an 87. The block is stamped as a Thunderbird turbo as I said in the original thread, and wondered if they used blocks across the models. Once the transmission is in, I'll see how wide and long that scoop has to be I guess.

Now I'm worried about that turbo going into the 73 wagon since I've read and had people say that the 73 is tough to get a turbo into. I'll see the issues as I move along.

Witts, did you combine both wiring harnesses and the ECU?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline pinto_one

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 06:54:05 AM »
Over the years I always found you make small not noticeable changes to parts to make them fit , done one back in the late eighties and yep the intake was just touching the hood at the TB, my fix was to remove the upper and lower intake manifold, I put the lower one in my Bridgeport and milled at a slight angle to the inside plus 3/16 of an inch lower where the upper manifold bolts to, then cleaned it up and reinstalled it, done the same ti the upper intake as well and after had just enough to to clear the hood, had to rotate the turbo outlet down to fit then , hope this gives you some extra choses, later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2015, 06:57:03 AM »
I got and 88 turbo motor in my bobcat its clears easily guess the different hood on them is a good thing not just because its different. As for the blocks they are all the same other then the turbo blocks have a hole for the turbo drain they didn't change blocks till 89 in rangers and 91 in mustangs when they went 8 plug and small journal crank.
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Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2015, 07:52:07 AM »
Over the years I always found you make small not noticeable changes to parts to make them fit , done one back in the late eighties and yep the intake was just touching the hood at the TB, my fix was to remove the upper and lower intake manifold, I put the lower one in my Bridgeport and milled at a slight angle to the inside plus 3/16 of an inch lower where the upper manifold bolts to, then cleaned it up and reinstalled it, done the same ti the upper intake as well and after had just enough to to clear the hood, had to rotate the turbo outlet down to fit then , hope this gives you some extra choses, later Blaine

I don't mind the scope honestly. If I were to cut the supports for the hood it would fit also. I guess I'm going to place a scoop on it. I want it as easy as possible, now that probably an oxymoron. LOL

Blaine,

When you did the swap, did you have to merge the two harnesses? Looking like what we are going to do on this swap.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline pinto_one

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 08:21:39 AM »
No did not have to merge the two harness, just added to it, the pinto harness just has a few wires that deal with the engine , one is for spark , the others is for water and oil idiot lights,  so what I do is to keep it simple is treat the engine and computer as one system, wire it all on one side , plugs for sensors ,TPS sensors, ign harness and any other sensors, like temp air charge , vss, O2 , and use a relay to turn it all on , the org wire to the coil will turn on the relay ,  or in short it's like running a computer controlled engine on the shop floor, not like the old engine you hook up a fuel can to the fuel pump and a hot wire to a coil , done this to my last one , I do this in case I have a short and do not have engine computer wires crossing the pinto wires, but to each there own, keep it neat , or the hair you pull out later will leave a large bald spot on each side of your head 😜
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline pinto_one

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 08:33:19 AM »
Also I forgot is to where to place the computer, I stick mine right above the glove box on a half tray, it's dry and high and where I can get to it, all of the wires from the computer go through the firewall above the A/C unit, all of the wire you strip from the donor car will be long enough , and most will have to be shortened big time,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Wittsend

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 01:40:01 PM »
Now I'm worried about that turbo going into the 73 wagon since I've read and had people say that the 73 is tough to get a turbo into. I'll see the issues as I move along.
Witts, did you combine both wiring harnesses and the ECU?

On my '73 wagon turbo swap I did not merge the harnesses.  I used the Turbo Coupe steering column and thus the T/C fusebox, charging wiring, fuel pump & fan relay in addition to the actual engine wiring. So, yes (stupid me - see image), I took the most difficult swap (wiring wise) and made it more difficult.  The only point of integration was for the turn signal/emergency flasher and horn.  For that I just pillaged a Pinto column connector with 6" of wire still connected and hooked it appropriately to the T/C column. Otherwise the original Pinto wiring and the T/C wiring are distinct and separate.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2015, 08:26:50 PM »
Well break out the thumb screws and thumb tacks for snacks, I thought I was the only one here into S & M  ( splice and match )  hope you hooked up the Cruze control button on the wheel, I sure like mine on long trips , 😀
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Wittsend

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2015, 11:41:41 PM »
You know everything has been in place for years now, but for some reason I have never completed the hook up. The control box is under the dash. The brake switch and vacuum bleed is installed. The vacuum diaphragm in under the drives fender. I guess I struggled for years to get the engine running right that it just slipped by. Got to find my growing "for summer" list and add that too.

This just brings to mind all the stuff I've "hidden" under the fenders. The VAM and air cleaner, the Cruise Control vacuum diaphragm, the T/C transplanted washer bottle and lastly the T/C charcoal emissions canister. I'm not even sure why I put the canister there. I never hooked it up either. LOL

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2015, 06:54:46 AM »
On my '73 wagon turbo swap I did not merge the harnesses.  I used the Turbo Coupe steering column and thus the T/C fusebox, charging wiring, fuel pump & fan relay in addition to the actual engine wiring. So, yes (stupid me - see image), I took the most difficult swap (wiring wise) and made it more difficult.  The only point of integration was for the turn signal/emergency flasher and horn.  For that I just pillaged a Pinto column connector with 6" of wire still connected and hooked it appropriately to the T/C column. Otherwise the original Pinto wiring and the T/C wiring are distinct and separate.

Ouch, do you mean my 73 is a problem now? That I need the steering column also? I mean I can get one.

The 79 isn't as bad as we thought it would be. We're swapping wiring from one harness and mixing it with the other. I'll document the stuff for the next one.

It looks like the 73 with the turbo swap will be an issue though. I need to read your thread on this I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2015, 06:56:46 AM »
No did not have to merge the two harness, just added to it, the pinto harness just has a few wires that deal with the engine , one is for spark , the others is for water and oil idiot lights,  so what I do is to keep it simple is treat the engine and computer as one system, wire it all on one side , plugs for sensors ,TPS sensors, ign harness and any other sensors, like temp air charge , vss, O2 , and use a relay to turn it all on , the org wire to the coil will turn on the relay ,  or in short it's like running a computer controlled engine on the shop floor, not like the old engine you hook up a fuel can to the fuel pump and a hot wire to a coil , done this to my last one , I do this in case I have a short and do not have engine computer wires crossing the pinto wires, but to each there own, keep it neat , or the hair you pull out later will leave a large bald spot on each side of your head 😜

Three of us working on this one. We're also going to hide the wires so it's going to be real clean. Hearing what I could insure this car for with Hagerty just blew me away :( And not in a good way.

I should document this for anyone wanting to do it this way I guess.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2015, 06:57:19 AM »
Also I forgot is to where to place the computer, I stick mine right above the glove box on a half tray, it's dry and high and where I can get to it, all of the wires from the computer go through the firewall above the A/C unit, all of the wire you strip from the donor car will be long enough , and most will have to be shortened big time,

Yeah, we were planning on placing it in there :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2015, 03:30:03 PM »
Ouch, do you mean my 73 is a problem now? That I need the steering column also? I mean I can get one.

No, not at all. I opted to use the T/C column by choice. I wanted the tilt steering and the cruise control aspects.

I also kept the T/C wiring separate by choice. I wanted it to be "stand alone" from the Pinto wiring for the sake of trouble shooting.  It was also helpful (for me) since I was electing to use the factory relay box for the fans and fuel pump. I had more faith in swapping over a harness (T/C)  that had the extraneous removed than I did in being additive to the Pinto harness.  My swap was built from a complete donor car so these things were all no cost options I elected to do.

As to the ECU it is in the side foot well like it was in the T/C. Since I don't drive from that side..., I have no complaints. :-)

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2015, 07:01:26 AM »
No, not at all. I opted to use the T/C column by choice. I wanted the tilt steering and the cruise control aspects.

I also kept the T/C wiring separate by choice. I wanted it to be "stand alone" from the Pinto wiring for the sake of trouble shooting.  It was also helpful (for me) since I was electing to use the factory relay box for the fans and fuel pump. I had more faith in swapping over a harness (T/C)  that had the extraneous removed than I did in being additive to the Pinto harness.  My swap was built from a complete donor car so these things were all no cost options I elected to do.

As to the ECU it is in the side foot well like it was in the T/C. Since I don't drive from that side..., I have no complaints. :-)

Honestly, that sounds awesome to have that on the car :) There are a ton to T-Birds at the yard here that I can grab one from. And for the cruise, you just hooked that in also?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2015, 09:52:30 AM »
I got about a 1/4" of squish on the motor mounts by tightening the bolt that holds the top to the bottom of the mount. My mounts are old and soft though. Not sure how that translates in to hood clearance yet though.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2015, 11:26:39 AM »
I got about a 1/4" of squish on the motor mounts by tightening the bolt that holds the top to the bottom of the mount. My mounts are old and soft though. Not sure how that translates in to hood clearance yet though.

Not certain on the clearance, it's not a lot that it needs on mine. The turbo in the 72 will be an issue I know.

BTW, heater cores for this on Rock Auto was only $19.95 on clearance, there are a few more there.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2015, 03:33:31 PM »
Honestly, that sounds awesome to have that on the car :) There are a ton to T-Birds at the yard here that I can grab one from. And for the cruise, you just hooked that in also?

Well, again I had the complete donor T/C and that simplifies the matter.  I don't even have my system functional - yet.   And, I believe I still need to intigrate the electronic speed sensor into the manual speedometer cable to do so. There are a number of additional parts involved.  The linkage on the throttle body, the vacuum servo/cable, the controller box, switches on the steering wheel, a column wired for such. In addition there is wiring into the brake system. There is even a vacuum line that vents the vacuum servo as soon as the brake pedal moves.  All this has some integration in the ECU.

 So, attempting to piece it together has the potential to be very probmatic. Pinto_One seems to have a Cruise Control functional so he can better advise how he put his together.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2015, 08:15:35 PM »
Guess I went the easy way one my cruse control,  first I was going to the u pull it and take off one off a ford but started thinking of a easy way out , so I brought one from Dakota Digital , and had the old style lever on the turn leaver , looks so 70s (I like it ) but I put the cable unit under the dash and ran the cable through where the clutch cable would go if I had a clutch, tied it into my vss sensor on the trans , reason for putting the controller inside is that heat kills these things over time being under the hood,  after I used it for a few long trip I wish I done it Long ago,  good that Wittsend Has it installed and just a few things to hook up, and after he does it will be very enjoyable and up graded pinto,   
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline dianne

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Re: EFI engine up too high
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2015, 08:28:51 PM »
Well, looks like I want that on the wagon and the 79 :) I looked on ebay and there seems to be some options. In 1978 I remember an X put a unit in on a 78 Monte Carlo.

Yep, will take them on some road trips, so yeah, gotta do it!

Thanks guys!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied