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Author Topic: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....  (Read 2099 times)

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Offline sandman96818

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Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« on: October 10, 2015, 10:58:10 AM »
So I grew up with chevys and know little about fords and what motors inter change and everything like that.  My daughter just turned 16 and bought a 72 pinto.  The motor has a knock in it and I believe that its a conrod bearing causing he knock.  Its a 2.0lL with a 4sp trans C/4 I believe.  From what I have read these are pretty good and reliable engines as long as they are taken care of.  She is in auto class in high school and is on her second year she wants to get a little more power out of the car than what it has.  Ive read that for the 2.3L swaps you have to weld in new brackets on the frame for the motor mounts, my issue is I am military and stationed in hawaii so parts I have availible to me are limited theres 3 maybe 4 junk yards on the island and lets just say pickings are slim. She would like to keep it carbed if she can I do have a rebuild kit for the carb though it looks to be more of a pain than what I am used to.  Is there a relatively easy swap or should I just have her rebuild the motor and throw in some mods and if so what mods do people recommend?  She wants around 200hp I personally would prefer around 130-150 for her little car as she is just learning to drive and dont  want her wrecking her car or herself if you know what i mean.  I dont want to drop a chevy engine into this though I do have a 4.3l siting in the garage with a 5speed trans  that she is begging me to let her put in.  Seems a little heavy for this car and I have read about others having issues with this and the turning ability going to shizod.  Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated and make a future mechanic very happy. 
Thanks in advance Sam

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 11:50:40 AM »
Unless you go to a 2.3 Turbo motor you are better off with the 2.0.   I'm sure just about anyone here with a 2.0 will tell you that too. And..., your 16 year old daughter will be safer too.  For all the trouble of the swap the gains of a normally aspirated 2.3 are minimal in stock form - if any.  While the link I'm providing is my 2.3 Turbo swap there is a lot of information on what it take to get any 2.3 in an early Pinto. I don't provide it to encourage you, but more to dissuade you from doing a 2.3 swap and more so a turbo. With marginal brakes a 2.3 Turbo can be somewhat scary even for a seasoned driver, much less a novice. A 4 speed or with the right gears a 5 speed swap might be the better choice over an engine swap.  http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893 (link to part 2 is at the end of part 1)

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 06:04:41 PM »
Some general comments and suggestions.
1)If it is stock automatic transmission, it is a three speed C4.
2)Wiping a cam lobe can sound like a rod knock and is not uncommon with these engines (including the early 2.3 engines).  Pull the valve cover to verify.  If the cam is bad and if you are keeping the 2.0, this would be the time for a better cam with new followers.  Since the cam slides out the back of the head, you will need to pull head to replace the cam (unless you cut a hole in the fire wall).  If the head is pulled, it would be good time to mill the head for a little more compression and possibly install: bigger valves, better valve springs, and new valve seals.  If it is truly a rod knock, disregard the above.
3)If you are keeping the 2.0, suggest getting David Vizard's book "How to Hot Rod Your 2.0-Liter Ford", info is old like the engine but still good.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895863650?keywords=0895863650&qid=1444517854&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline sandman96818

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2015, 10:19:08 AM »
thank you for the heads up on a few things its a 4 speed trans manual not a 3 on the tree What trans/gear box inter change with these take it pretty much any older mustang?  But I can see the trans swap with some different gearing to make it run a little better As well as the regular upgrades head work and rebuild of block.  Any recommendation s on an after market carb? thanks for the tips

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 01:13:45 PM »
I can't help on the 2.0 engine upgrades but there are others here who are well versed.  Regarding the transmissions:

Pinto's only came with a 4 speed manual (no 3 speeds), floor shift only (no column shift), or a 3 speed automatic (still floor shift only).  The 4 speed numbers I can't help with but the automatics were either a C-3 or a C-4, the C-4 being preferable.  One of the common upgrades is the T-5 that comes from either the 2.3 Mustangs or the 2.3 Turbo Coupes.  My understanding is that the 2.0 needs just the right amount of engine mods so as to not lose low end torque and be ineffective with the T-5 upgrade because of the overdrive and encountering inclines.  This of course also factors with rear gears and the associated tire diameter. Listen to what others say because some love the combination, but warn that it needs to be done just right.

Offline russosborne

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 01:20:40 PM »
Not to discourage you, but I would suggest doing a LOT of reading here.

The 72 is a decent car, but has it's limitations.

The 2.0 is a good engine, but again limited. There are lots of aftermarket stuff for it in England, but not much in the US.

 For a trans swap, there isn't a lot you can use. I remember reading of some people putting a specific 5 speed in, but it isn't a simple bolt in.
 
If you wanted to put a 289 or 302 Ford in it it requires cutting things. I'd hate to think what putting a Chevy in would take. These never had a V8 from the factory, weren't designed to have one. The 74 and up are easier, but it still isn't a simple bolt in.

A 2.3 is a good swap, but again there are things to deal with like the mounts mentioned above. A Ranger is a good source for the engine, but forget about using any manual trans that comes with the Ranger engine, the shifter is in the dash on a Pinto.

A 74 to 78 Mustang II has some stuff in common, but not alot. Pretty much just drivetrain. And the center console.

The 72 has a different front suspension, than the Mustang II/later Pinto type. Can be harder to find parts for it.

You can do anything you want with any car if you are willing to hack and weld and spend money. But seriously I again recommend that you do a lot of reading here before making any decisions on what to do with it. This isn't a Chevy, things don't go that easy with Fords, and for Pintos that goes about 10 times. I love Fords, but Chevys are easier to swap stuff around with.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Offline 72DutchWagon

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 01:59:39 PM »
A few suggestions from far away Europe; your gearbox is a type E, which is easiest replaced with a T9 5-speed if you keep the 2.0. Look at www.eurospeed. com.au/mk9.htm in Australia.
For 2.0 engine parts you might take a look at Philippines built Ford Cortina’s (Taunus) and Granada’s, it seems they had your  German OHC engine until well into the eighties.
You might want to visit www.fordclubph .com, they would have more information.
For Pinto engine speed parts  www.burtonpowe r.com and suppliers in Australia.
And in addition to oldkayaker’s reading suggestion, try “How to Build and Power Tune Ford Pinto Engines (Including Cosworth)” (SpeedPro Series) by Des Hammill.
My own 72 to 85 2.0 Pinto EFI conversion project can be found on this site.

Offline sandman96818

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 12:01:27 PM »
OK so I finally got a chance to getting the engine pulled and it was recently rebuilt thats.  The head is imaculate and not warped which I thought was amazing to see a head this old in that great of shape.  Now for the bad news and my head ache.  #2 conrod bearing ate itself and that is where the knock was coming from.  Ive thought about having the crank milled but leaves me with another problem the conrod is toast.  I have been searching to see if I can find one and to no avail.  I greatly need your help in this as I have no connections in the ford community.  any help for locating these parts would greatly be appreciated.  I am stationed in Hawaii local options are limited.  Again thank you for any help or direction in this looking to possible swap crank and all conrods.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2016, 04:19:17 PM »
Talk to your local SCCA people as that engine is sill used in road racing. Also try Pegasus Auto Racing as they sell new parts.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline enzo

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2016, 10:29:36 PM »
Sandman,

These are the specialists on the 2.0L for aftermarket parts in the US,
NOT for Racing. Pegasus is all about racing, pricing etc.

I have tried to provide accurate web addresses.

esslingeracing .com
raceeng.com
speedwaymotors .com

They have enough info to make a valued judgement of your
conditions.

Good luck on your decisions and have fun, after all.

Enzo.

Offline enzo

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 11:00:18 PM »
I constantly have to remember what the prime goal of the car IS!

And therefore, I have been challenged by the WANT of horsepower and the DRIVABLIALTY of the
car on the street.

The reference from dick1172762 about  Pegasus is a good resource for lots
of parts, but, mostly for competition.

There in lies your choices of components for your car.  IMO.

Bottom line, it is your car, and you can do what ever pleases you!

Enzo.

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Daughters project 72 pinto need help....
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2016, 09:10:28 AM »
As mentioned above, a 150-200 HP 2000cc is a bit optimistic for a normally aspirated daily driver.  The 2000c can be improved for the street, see other posts here and the book referenced above.  I have several extra rods with pistons that I can send you, no charge using flat rate box.  They were well used when stored and have been sitting in a bin for a few decades, so they will need substantial cleaning and check out.  If interested, PM me your mailing address.

Note the stock 2000cc uses press fit piston pins.  The machine shops here have had problems disassembling them.  One bent the rods by over heating the small end.  Another crushed the piston.  So if the piston-pin-rod are acceptable, try to leave them assembled.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida