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Offline cossiepinto

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Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« on: February 08, 2012, 06:25:20 PM »
Well, it's been a long time coming, but the Cossie's ready to drop in.  I might get it done this weekend, but certainly by next.

Offline jim72

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 06:37:39 PM »
impressive to say the least

Offline beaner

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 10:25:42 PM »
is the short block 2.3L based or cosworth only?
 
brad :)

Offline 71hotrodpinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 10:57:15 PM »
SMOOOKIN!!!
 Thats a nice looking setup there!
 Lots of cash sitting there, hope to hear it running when you get it finished!


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
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Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 05:38:24 AM »
Brad, it's a 2 liter block.  It's a Cosworth, but the dimensions are the same as the Pinto 2.0.  I think there are minor differences, like oil drainback (from turbocharger), etc., but you can put a Cosworth head like this on a Pinto 2.0 block and it'll work.  Of course, there are other things to change, like pistons, but it's done often.


Des Hammill's book, "How to Power Tune Ford SOHC 'Pinto' and Sierra Cosworth DOHC Engines for Road and Track" details how it's done.  It's also a great how to book for the 2.0 Pinto engine.  I bought the book for tips on what to do for the Cosworth and found it helpful.


I got this engine straight from Cosworth, unassembled, with all the machine work already performed (finish hone, deburring, etc), and assembled it here at home.


Now it's time to get off my butt and get the thing in the car.

Offline 80_2.3_ESS

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 10:09:34 AM »
Wow, that's bitchin'

What are you guestimating for power on that? Looks like a really nice set-up.

Also, fuel injected? Or Carbs? I don't know too much about those motors, so I can't really tell by looking at it. Also, any other specs you care to share???
Nick in CT

1980 2.3L Pinto ESS

Offline slowride

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 12:26:21 PM »
Dry sump?

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 03:04:18 PM »
Cosworth sold this engine kit two ways: hydraulic cam followers, production cams or solid cam followers, slightly more radical cams.  The hydraulic engine puts out about 200 bhp or so, and the solid engine puts out about 260 bhp or so.  Mine is the hydraulic engine.  I opted for better street driveability/lower maintenance over more power and higher operating costs.  So, it's not a beast.  Redline for this engine is 7800 rpms.  It should idle smoothly and pull away from a stop pretty easily.  This is a good thing, because I'm running a 2.04-low Quaife straight-cut gear dogbox, which will feel like I'm starting off in second gear.  The 4.11 geared rear end will help.
 
Yes, the engine is dry-sumped.  I put the mockup engine in the car awhile back to run all the oil lines, etc.  Now when it goes in, the plumbing will be permanent.
 
I hope I'll get the engine and all its plumbing in over the next couple of weekends.  I'll post pics as I do.

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 03:05:33 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to answer the fuel question.  Those are Weber carbs.

Offline 71hotrodpinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 09:21:58 PM »
Man thats awesome!
 So i remember drooling over the Ford Motorsport Catolouge way back in the 80s and early 90s. They had a kit for the head, cams, and a few other parts MINUS the induction and header which would have to be custom for my Pinto.
 I wanted that setup sooo bad, but if i remember they had a price tag on that bioatch of $7500!! again MINUS the carbs and manifold! Lets just throw another 1000 for that and another 1000 for the header. Oh yah then dont forget the short block to redoo . Another $1500!
 I had no way to do that , I mean hell a  new 5.0 LX Mustang was about 12000 in '88 !
 LOL
Im just talking, not trying to take anything away from you at all your car is truly going to be unique!
Cant Wait!



95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 09:35:13 AM »
Yes, there are definitely less expensive ways to go faster, but I got interested in naturally aspirated multivalve engines when I was stationed in Germany.  I had wanted to get a BDA or BDG engine, but believe it or not, this Cosworth YB was way cheaper.
 
Cosworth sold this kit complete from carbs to dry sump pan for about $7500.  Then I added a Bosch centrifugal advance distributor (the stock one was electronic/no advance built in) and a Tilton flywheel for another few hundred.  The Webers were 50 DCO SPs, which were way too large for the street, so I traded them even for some 45 DCOEs, which will be more drivable. 
 
All told, the engine wasn't that terribly expensive, but you can turbocharge a 2.3 for half the price and be faster I admit.
 
I had to move the master cylinder(s) inside the firewall so the carbs would have room, and I did lots of other little things to accomodate this engine.  You're right, exhaust headers aren't made for this engine in this chassis, but I'm going to gamble on a set for a European MK1/2 Escort with this engine transplanted, providing I am encouraged by the measurements I get when the engine is in.  If not, I'll be having them custom made.  That should be my last hurdle.
 
Thanks for the interest.  It's been a long haul, with plenty of interruptions (kids in college, etc) over the years.  Now it's my turn.

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012, 07:56:15 PM »
Cossiepinto, I have to say, you rock, I've wanted one of these for a long time, even N/A that thing will move a pinto nicely! I'm interested in where you are at and who you purchased it from? Those things are not easy to come by in the US, (unless I'm missing something) I'll be posting picks of my new 2V head shortly, filled intake ports big valves, lots of work to get close to what you have stock!
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Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 08:29:41 PM »
Ranchero, I'm in San Angelo, which is in west Texas.  I bought the engine from Cosworth in Torrance, in LA, California.  The guy in sales is still there.  His name is Ken Jacobs. He was very helpful when I first made the purchase and still is.  Just the other day I ordered a fresh head gasket and ARP head stud kit for my engine.


I'm not sure if they still make up kits like they sold me, but these engines are still available from various European sources like Burton Performance.  Also, they can be found in wrecking yards.  They were turbocharged in all production cars they came in and some of those make LOTS of power.  Just look up Cosworth YB on youtube for some scary  dyno numbers.


I looked on Cosworth USA's site and they now sell an all aluminum block for this engine.  It's expen$ive!


I've attached a couple of pics I think posted before for those who might not have seen the car.  This was the day I rolled it out to get the inside of it Rhino-lined.

Offline Srt

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 02:56:52 AM »
do you have any bars running forward to tie into the front 'subframe'?
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 08:29:33 AM »
I made sub frame connectors that run diagonally from the outside rear subframe to the front subframe.  They come through the floor and are welded along the whole seam.  You can see them in the picture of the Rhino-lined floor.  Also, I removed the bars that went from the center of the roll bar down and forward to the front roll hoop at the floor on each side so that I could get in and out to install seats, etc. I'm still deciding on how I will design them.  I have to wait until I get the seats in to see where they'll be exactly.  I have later doors that have the door beams in them for side-impact safety, but I know putting the bars back in will add even more rigidity, but at the expense of ingress and egress. It's a road car, so as you can see, I'm still scratching my head about this.


The car is really stiff now.  Funny story:  I had made tripod/adjustable-height jack stands for the car (they actually cradled the sub frame connectors using channel iron front and rear), which were on casters, so I could gently roll the whole car from one side of the garage to the other while still on the stands.  Well, as we all know, garage floors aren't really level, so after I rolled the car to one side of the garage, I came around and saw one jack stand sitting all by itself RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR!  I about crapped my pants!  But, the car was still sitting on its remaining three stands, like nothing was wrong!  Thank you sub frame connectors and cage!  I was going to put little coil springs under the cradles on those stands to compensate for the uneven floor, but soon after that, the car was on its own wheels and down.




Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2012, 08:30:42 AM »
Paul,

Glad to see you working on your project and making progress- You and I both have put things on the back burner for too long and it's funny that we are both working toward the mark together. I eventually needed a goal like Norm's Stampede to get my green runabout finished (or functional)- now the yellow for the next 'hopefully'- Maybe you could join us? You have been part of this site and it's growth for as long as I can remember- would love to ride with you.

I have always been amazed with your motor and all the work you have put into your car to date. Yours will be really a fantastic ride and it would be real fun to see it up close.

Honestly, sometimes I just sit and look at the photos of your engine (and the previous shots from years gone by) with anticipation of maybe doing something this cool to mine some day. You and Brad- Really Shiney!!

Good Stuff,
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Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2012, 10:09:58 AM »
Thru-floor subframe connectors came out real nice. Rhino coat deffinately hides alot and it looks great. I really dig the Cosworth as I`m a Vega/Monza fan. Me personnally, I`d a stuck with the sidedraft 50`s. Could you by chance take a pic of the mastercylinder mounting? I need to move mine for my build. Thanks, James

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2012, 10:59:18 AM »
custommuffler,


Yes, Cosworth built that chevy engine for Formula 2 racing in Europe, but by the time it was ready, a rule change or something made it uncompetitive.  It was based on the Vega block, like the Cosworth Fords were based on Ford blocks, so it was a natural fit into the Vega. I think it was designated the "EAA" engine by Cosworth.  Anyway, that was one really cool buildup for the Vega.  Too bad emissions and 5-mph bumper laws hampered it.  Still, it was the coolest Vega ever, in my opinion.


Here are some pics of the interior/pedal arrangement. I found hard points to place the mounts, then built the brackets to hold the Tilton overhung pedal assembly.  After a lot of fiddling I was able to come up with just the right amount of room to get everything to work ok.  I had to be careful not to interfere with the swing of the wiper crank, too.  I actually had to relieve the horizontal bar across the top on the backside so the wiper crank would pass without ticking on it.


I built it in pieces so I could dismantle it as need be, but once it's in there, I doubt if I'll ever move it again.  The master cylinders aren't in there in the pics, but they fit and the steering shaft just barely passes between the two brake master cylinders. 

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2012, 11:19:19 AM »
Hey Scott!


I bet you get those questions like "Well, what are you gonna do with it when you finish?"  And there's no really good answer, is there?  I tell my wife that I'll drive it to work when the weather's just right, or I'll autocross it (in some kind of open class where I'll get my butt whipped), or I'll take it to the local Mustang roundup and show it in the notta-Mustang class and maybe win a t-shirt.  Or maybe take it for a drive and let the fast and furious, tomato can-mufflered Civic-driving kids try to guess just what the heck this is.


Or maybe I'll never finish it! I think that's the key.  I'm already eye-balling TWM Induction's neat fuel injection setups....all the beauty of Webers without the hassle and upkeep.


Right now, posting pics and bench-racing with fellow Pinto'ers is most of the fun of monkeying with something like this in the first place.


Thanks, Scott, for providing us with a forum where we can dream/show off/exchange ideas whenever we feel like getting off that dirty shop floor and taking a break.


Paul

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 05:45:40 PM »
Well, the engine is in the Pinto.  Now I'll spend the next few days/weeks monkeying with ancillaries and detail work.  It's been a good day.

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 10:32:21 PM »
*no words*  :o :o :o .. Just wow..

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2012, 06:24:50 PM »
Nice! Very Nice..
By the way I priced a Holbaytwin cam head conversion "kit", you can still get the head conversion kit, but it's out of my price range only $14500.00 before shipping....
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Offline beaner

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2012, 07:36:29 PM »
Nice! Very Nice..
By the way I priced a Holbaytwin cam head conversion "kit", you can still get the head conversion kit, but it's out of my price range only $14500.00 before shipping....

for that price you can get one for each of your cars :o :o :o :o :o :o :o   jk  ouch :'(
 
brad :)

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2012, 08:39:56 PM »
I talked to Ken Jacobs at Cosworth on Friday.  I asked him if Cosworth still sold these engine kits.  The answer is no, but he can put together one if need be from individual parts.  He said it'd be much more expensive than back when I got this one, though.


Update:  Today I built the radiator mounts.  I had AFCO build me a custom radiator awhile back, and of course it doesn't fit the original spot.  It only took a couple of hours and now all's ok.


I also discovered that with the "dropped" alternator bracket, I'll have to run a much shorter belt and keep the alternator tucked up closer to the engine to keep it from bumping the inner fender panel.  I might just cut a bit away and make a new panel with a little more room.  Of course, the adjuster arm's too long now.  No biggie.


Same thing goes with the dry sump oil tank.  The alternator pulley is a bit too close for comfort, so the tank's going to get a slight modification for peace of mind.  It'll lose about a pint of volume, but it's a 10 quart tank, so I don't think it'll miss it.


I knew all this was going to happen, but didn't have a clue as to what to do until the engine was in the car.  Now I know.

Offline D.R.Ball

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2012, 01:04:34 AM »
Note you can still get the parts from the U.K. and Ebay is still your friend. Also for that matter try a little north of U.S. yes you can if you can pay...

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2012, 09:20:49 AM »
This is true.  This engine is all over the UK and elsewhere (but here) in wrecking yards.  It's used in "YAC" form in SCCA Sports Racing cars, too, so there are builders here in the States.  Companies like Burton Performance sell parts, and you can find lots of bits on ebay.  I found things like the dropped alternator bracket from an aftermarket company in the UK on ebay.  Of course, that's opened a can of worms with clearing the inner fender, but it'll be worth the effort when I'm done (I hope).


I'll have plenty of leftovers from this kit when I'm done.  For example, Cosworth provided a fuel pump block-off plate, but this engine block didn't need one.  They provided a heater hose plate, but I fashioned my own and didn't use it.  That little piece is bringing $$ on ebay right now.  I'll be ebaying stuff like that myself soon.


Cosworth USA is selling an aluminum block now for $6,000.00. Ouch!  That'd be about $100/pound of weight savings...out of my league!  But it does indicate continued interest in this engine.

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 03:24:15 PM »
Cossiepinto, I wish you would have never started this thread  ;)  I searched and found a used but complete "kit" with a 4x4 Cosworth YB 16V head, complete with Rally Solid tappet cams, adjustable cam gears, mellow porting, Escort MK2 big tube header, Weber intake, Cosworth rods and Cosworth forged pistons. not cheap but it sure will look good  ;D
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72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2012, 05:16:45 PM »
Sorry Ranchero,


But the damage is done and the Cosworth's in your head now!


They aren't cheap, and I'm so glad I bought this one when I did...if I had to do it again it'd be tough to do.


Paul

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2012, 09:40:49 PM »
Cossie, I can say, if you only paid $7,500 for your entire engine kit, you got a deal by todays prices!  where are you located? I'm hoping to have the new head on for my June Vacation, I was going to go to the Fun Ford Weekend in Spokane June 9th, but it's not on the schedule anymore....
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
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73 pinto, the nice one...

Offline cossiepinto

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Re: Cosworth Engine Ready for Installation
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 06:09:49 AM »
Ranchero,


I'm in San Angelo, Texas, which is probably out of the way for most Pinto Groupers.


Yes, I realize I got a deal for sure compared to today's prices.  At the time I bought this engine, it was still in production, so parts were readily available and plentiful.  Now the aftermarket is the main source and their procurement/stocking situation has understandably driven costs up.


I must say that the folks at Cosworth have never allowed me to feel like a "little guy" when dealing with them.  I have had a great relationship with Ken Jacobs there.  He's sent me bits I've needed from his old stock from time to time, too, from seals to an ARP stud kit.  His supply of YB parts has dwindled since they've moved on to new stuff, but he's become my first choice (even over ebay) when I find I need something, and he's so well connected that I'm sure he can find anything I'd ever need.


The last (and only) time I visited Cosworth in Torrance, I was really impressed!  Not only did I lay my eyes on a YB for the first time (it was being readied for someone's sprint car), but they had a whole shelf of Olds Quad-4 engines all built up for someone's race team.  There must have been 3 or 4 of them.  Cosworth should be on the itinerary for anyone traveling that way.  It's an impressive operation and they're really friendly.