Author Topic: 72 DutchWagon rolling resto (Read 28964 times)

72DutchWagon · « **on:** September 05, 2015, 07:48:18 AM »

Small hiccup in donkey land; took the wagon to the municipal garbage dump site, was cleaning out the garage and garden. Just tossed a rotting rocking chair, and wanted to start the car up to leave this miserable place where no longer wanted stuff is abandoned, and donkey decided she didn’t want to leave. I turned the key another time and said “what’s that donkey, do you want to stay here?”
She just answered with a very faint red glow from the dash and that was it.
Whilst pushing her off the site, some guys remarked that I just passed the old iron dumpster, haha, that was to be expected.
Well, the problem was obvious, after driving around for some days the battery was flat, charging system can’t keep up with the demands, so I need to fab a bracket for the 90 amp Scorpio alternator and hook that up.
The Scorpio alternator only has a thicker black wire that should go to the plus side of the Solenoid, and a thinner blue wire that should go to the idiot light on the dash as I understand it.
I do have some remaining questions for the experts on site though, I’ve been spending days on reading threads about these conversions but a few things stay unclear;
1 the original thicker black load wire from the 65 amp Pinto alternator disappears into the wiring loom, where does it go, does it first feed the dash and then comes back to the battery (Yellow wire to the plus post of solenoid)?
2 do I also hook this thicker black wire up to the plus side of the solenoid, or can it be taped of?
3 do I run the blue idiot light wire all the way to the wire that’s now on the I post of the voltage regulator, and can I then discard the voltage regulator?
4 do I run the blue idiot light wire straight to the dash, and if so, where do I hook it up?

pinto_one · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2015, 03:22:55 PM »

You may have a fusable link that may be bad, they are built into the wire ends and burn out on the inside some times , the pinto alternator is large enough for what you need , it's just that you have to trace the wire and find out why the charging current is not making it to the battery , do a internet search under fusable link to see what it looks like , you will know what to look for , hope this is your problem , and a simple fix , good luck ,

76hotrodpinto · « **Reply #2 on:** September 06, 2015, 11:09:07 PM »

I put the ol' pinto alt. back in with mine too. No problems keeping up with 12v demand. I'd keep poking around for shorts or lifts. Maybe a bad diode in you alt?

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2015, 10:23:31 AM »

I did some maintenance jobs last weeks, renewed the brake fluid which was the color of Coca Cola, and full of debris. Complete overhaul of brake system is on the future agenda.
Valve lash adjustment on the 2.0 is supposed to be done with Hazet special tools 3429 and 329-5 because the efi intake manifold limits access to the adjusters on the left side. 3429 I found on the net, for 329-5 I fabbed a replacement from an old 19mm spanner. You don’t really need the 3429 tool either if you shorten a normal 15mm spanner.
The camshaft is really worn, the lobes have ridges to the sides! Good excuse to put a Kent cams FR34 on the wanted toys list, and of course a new oil spray bar.
I cleaned up the battery posts and checked the alternator load capacity but I’m still not convinced that the original alternator is going to cut it. If you add up the amp draw of efi, electric fuel pump, electric fan, H4 halogen headlights, that’s too much to ask from a 1972 power nothing configuration Pinto alternator.

pinto_one · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2015, 11:32:57 AM »

You might have to do a volt drop test on the car , what you have to do it start it up and run for a few minutes and then turn the lights on , all of them ,put the fan motor on low or med, take a volt meter and check what voltage between the alternater and battery, if you have more than a volt you have bad wires , over the years they get hard and the resistance goes up, also check engine to the negative post on the battery , that will give you fits, I put two ground straps on mine , and last is see what is stamped on the alternator , I do remember some were stamped 42 amps or less 😳, I have one off of my parts car and it was a 60 AMP, (see photo) , I have a larger one on my V6 pinto , it's a 100AMP , and last on your cam is if you have to remove it you have to remove the head 😩, yep the cam is removed from the back , so if you have a non A/C car you can remove the radio and use a hole saw on the fire wall to remove the cam, but remove one the the rocker arms and look at it , if it is smooth across the face just install it back and adjust the valves and keep on going , get a zinc oil additive, most oils do not have them because most engines have roller cams instead of the old slider cams , hope this helps

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2015, 02:09:21 PM »

Three jobs done last weekend; conversion to one wire Powermaster B 57141 alternator, replace turn signal cam, and put new pedal rubber on clutch pedal.
I wanted to (over)kill the insufficient battery charging problem once and for all so opted for a 140 amp Powermaster one wire conversion. I read tons of posts on forum’s about how this is supposed to work, and all I read was that “it only takes one wire”.
I know there’s more people that would like to hear the complete story so here’s how we (me and my stepbrother) did this.
This Powermaster alternator’s case has the same mounting measurements as the 40(!) amp original, so no changes to the brackets. I also ordered a 112 double v-belt pulley, so now I can run double belts on the original double belt Scorpio pulley’s. First we ran a earth wire from the top alternator bolt to the chassis. We discarded the original black charge wire that disappears into the loom (on its way to the dash) and taped it off. The other two wires (that go to the voltage regulator) were also secured out of the way. The connector on the voltage regulator was removed and taped off. The voltage regulator was taken out.
From the alternator we ran a new 4 AWG wire through a 150 amp mega fuse directly to the battery plus post. The starter wire was connected to the charging post on the alternator (keep in mind that I already did a mini starter conversion and bypassed the standard solenoid). From the battery plus post we ran somewhat thinner wire to the plus side of the solenoid.
That’s it, we can later add a voltmeter, run from the #1 terminal on the alternator (that would be the third wire coming of a one wire alternator…).

Replacing the turn signal cam (Dorman 49301) meant removing the steering wheel with a puller, cutting the original wires and having to shorten them even more because they were worn through in several places. Then it’s a fiddly job to get the wire connections done and get everything tucked away in the least stressful position.

After that, fitting a new Dorman 20731 clutch pedal pad was a 5 second job.

pinto_one · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2015, 04:26:11 PM »

so i guess it was a alternator problem you had and got it fixed , great , on your turn signal switch , do you know it does come out the top, in case you do not you remove the lower plastic cover and you will see a curved plug in connector , you un plug it and will all slide out so you can go and work on the table next to a cold beer ,

76hotrodpinto · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2015, 05:18:06 PM »

Or a warm beer. You never know, over there in dutch land.

pinto_one · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2015, 07:34:18 PM »

Yep and we dump ice in our Tea also , but as for my wife's cooking I sometimes have to quickly eat it before the taste catches up, 😵😵

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2015, 02:07:56 AM »

Thanks for the extra info Blaine, I did loosen the three phillips screws and pulled some on the complete unit but didn't know were it was going so stopped. Next time I'll take it all out.
Would have been so much nicer on the table with an autumn specialty bock beer (yes, cold please) next to it, but on the other hand, then I would probably have got the wires wrong and indicate left when going right.

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2015, 12:06:43 PM »

Yesterday I took donkey to the National Ford parts day, a 200 mile round trip to Barneveld.
It’s not a huge event, and on the parts side, there’s not much for donkey to be found, it’s mostly for European Ford products.
The images show Taunus, Consul/Granada and Capri’s, not a Stang in sight.
Most people had never seen a Pinto, some didn’t know that a wagon was made.
The trip was a good try-out though for the car, average highway speed was between 75 and 80 miles on the gps. Mpg was around 23. No major problems, no leaking or overheating.
There is lots of vibration going through the car, think I’ll have to take it to a drive shaft specialist. I also have excessive play in the diff, but no whine, could that add to the vibes? Any other known vibration causes that I should check out?

76hotrodpinto · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2015, 04:49:36 PM »

Thanks for the pics! It's cool to see that many "foreign" fords. I had a german capri when I was younger. I would love to have it back now. It was just a cheap runner for me, back then, but now I see how cool it really was. Your donkey looks about as out of place as mine does at shows here.

(pics from before motor swap)

pinto_one · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2015, 08:49:01 AM »

looks like you got it running good DutchWagon , as for the vibration it could be the drive shaft , if you cut it and did not have it bailanced after , hard to do no mater how careful you try , had mine done when i cut mine , do not worry about the play in the diff, as long as it is quite its ok, might just want to change the oil in it ,

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #13 on:** November 29, 2015, 07:49:29 AM »

I just ran into an add for a trailer hitch on a Dutch site, advertised as a Mustang II part.
Does anyone have an idea if this might fit my 72 Wagon?

pinto_one · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2015, 07:29:24 PM »

Nope , but let me look and see if I still have one , it was very simple the way it bolted to the car , it fit the sedans also, it would be easy for you to make if I can get a few photos for you , later Blaine

pinto_one · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2015, 08:03:52 PM »

Got you a photo , the sedans and wagons bolted the same way , a flat bar bolted to back of the spare tire tube with two 3/8 bolts and large washers on the inside , the middle of the flat bar had one 1/2 stove bolt from the inside going to the rear that went though the 90 degree bent tongue that went over the top of the Hourse shoe brackets you see bolted to the bumper , I think it was only good to a tad over a 1000 lbs trailer weight , and 250 lbs tongue weight , this is from memory will look and see if I can find it to see what is stamped on it , Later Blaine

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2015, 12:42:45 PM »

I see, you've got the original part for which I did find the fitting instructions (also have these in bigger readable format). On this it didn't state that it would work for wagon's too.
In Europe we don't see flat metal trailer hitches at all, the ones we do have need some sort of certification to be legal.
I'll think about the how's and if's for a while, no hurry, thanks again for your help.

oldkayaker · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2015, 09:26:25 AM »

Blaine's hitch looks like the one I had on my 71 Runabout, see photos. Mine is bent up a bit from my attempts of body stretching after a rear end collision. Mine was made by Draw-Tite Co. out of Belleville, Michigan with part number of: PIN 1 IK. Draw-Tite's web site no longer shows hitches for Pinto's. Your Ford instruction sheet appears to be for similar hitch, look at how it bolts to the bumper for a difference.

If you end up using a similar hitch, I recommend reinforcing the mounting points. I added full width angle iron to the rear floor and inside the rear bumper to spread the load .

Pinto5.0 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2015, 02:52:37 PM »

Is it an option to build your own hitch? I've built 2 for custom applications over the years & plan to build 2 more for 2 of the Pintos so I can run a bike carrier on them.

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2015, 03:01:20 PM »

Nice to see that we've got the official Pinto trailer hitch story covered now, and well documented!
Building your own is an option but not legal around here, it needs to be certified.
Another problem is that a hitch that is partially blocking view of the licence plate can also result in a fine in The Netherlands, you then need a removable hitch.
Looking at the moderate towing weight capability, it may just be too much trouble to spend time on.

pinto_one · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2015, 10:13:27 AM »

I see what you are against DutchWagon , and how do you get it certified ? , maybe if you over built it they can put a lower rating on it , (down to what you need) I have towed trailers with my pintos since day one back in 71, but the toe hitch,s are getting raire, still looking for the old early hitch but as you said it can not block the plate , so what you might want is like the one on my car , its a old class two , 300lbs tougne wt, 3500lbs trailer , receiver type , yes over kill for yours but fill the bill for what you want to do , and being a old american car they do not know what came with it , its older than the guys that want it inspect it , have a good welder make it up , then dirty it up like it looks old as the car and say it came with the car , and show photos of mine from the USA , just a idea good luck

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2016, 02:32:52 PM »

Got the car back in the garage to do some work, have to pass Dutch APK test in March to be allowed on the road for another two years.
When I removed the left side panel to run through the fuel pump wires (they had been lying on the floor since summer) I discovered a lot of bird feed left over’s, some chewed on hazelnuts, and a door post cavity stuffed up with what looked like plucked carpet (so that’s where the carpet went?). Did once strange lodgers live in these premises!?
Didn’t find any animal droppings though. I cleaned the lot out, and this corner will probably at some time need some welding and anti-rust treatment.
The brakes needed attention too, left back drum kept locking up, on inspection I found out that I had different setups left and right, on the right side two equal length brake pads, and all kinds of incorrect fitting.
Up till now I’ve replaced the rear shocks, rear drum brake hardware and emergency brake cable.
I included a picture of the plastic emergency brake handle cover, this kind of stuff is so easy to break before you find out how it clicks open.

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2016, 11:31:50 AM »

A few months ago I changed the turn signal cam because it was broken. Now I found out that my left brake light wasn’t working, and there was nothing wrong with the bulb.
A quick search on the net revealed that with Mustang’s (same steering column) the problem is normally in the turn signal switch, and you have to get a new one.
Now Rockauto doesn’t show these for 72 Pinto’s. I just took the risk of ordering one for a 72 Mustang w/o tilt, OE PRO SM44F, and it’s all right. A few wire colors are different, but it’s just plug and play.

robertwwithee · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2016, 06:36:17 PM »

It's nice to read your posts 72 dutchwagon. I'll keep you in mind on my next trip to Netherlands. I work for ASML. I could bring a part or two over.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2016, 02:10:57 PM »

Thanks for the remark!
ASML in Eindhoven? A microchip man who digs stone age technology?
Always welcome to come take a look at my donkey (and go for a spin).
And I just might take you up on that offer some time...

72DutchWagon · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2016, 02:11:20 PM »

Donkey has past the biannual road test!
A few niggles had to be ironed out by the (luckily!) classic loving crew at the shop that did the test, including welding a small patch.
After that, the only problem I ran into once, was that I lost all electric power to the accessories, engine was running fine, but I had no power to the dash (fuel gauge) wipers, turn signals etc.
I treated the fuse box to a dose of contact spray, and the problem went away, but I also have a suspicion that it might have to do something with the ignition switch not returning to the right spot after starting?
If anyone knows the exact cause please tell me because it’s not something I’d like to see coming back.

Today I took the wagon to the Antwerp Classic Salon, Antwerp is just half an hour away and we enjoyed the trip.
On the parking I left Donkey in good company and had a nice time at the expo. I bought some brake line wrenches and I spoke to someone who might have a Mustang II 8 inch rear for me, fingers crossed.
I added some more Ford product images for your pleasure.

dga57 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2016, 04:30:05 PM »

I think you might be on the right track with your thoughts about the ignition switch... I had a 1983 F-150 that did that. All I ever had to do was cut it off and restart it and it would be fine. Probably worth looking into. As for the photos, I LOVE that Mercury!!!

Dwayne

74 PintoWagon · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2016, 05:33:13 PM »

I had one of them Mercs, nice riding car..

76hotrodpinto · « **Reply #28 on:** March 05, 2016, 07:28:36 PM »

It's cool to see the pinto has it's place there too.

There's a tubbed out capri carcass for sale here, that's been haunting my dreams lately. It's almost the same shade of blue as the one you posted.

pinto_one · « **Reply #29 on:** March 06, 2016, 11:49:45 AM »

Your probably right on the ign switch , you might have to wait untel you have that problem again, then you drop the steering colom and check the switch then ,power should flow through all the large yellow wires , and the car looks great , 👍👍👍

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Author Topic: 72 DutchWagon rolling resto (Read 28964 times)