PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Shiny is Good! => Your Project => Topic started by: 72DutchWagon on March 07, 2015, 01:44:49 PM
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Finally I parked the Pinto in the garage and I’m starting to get the old engine out.
I added some pictures; note the somewhat sloppy auto box conversion, the trans cooler is dangling in front of the radiator attached by old pieces of wire.
On the other hand, the starter motor and alternator look brand new.
A question for all you early Pinto drivers, since I acquired this car I had the notion that the front is to high up. I measured 9,5 cm = 3,74 inch between the top of the tire (175/70 13) and the edge of the wheel well. If this is to high, could it be possible that someone put in later Pinto/MustangII springs without shortening them to the correct height for the earlier ones?
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Today the engine came out, see pic's. Second pic shows old engine and the 85 Euro Scorpio 2.0 EFI that should replace it.
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I'd love to put a fuel injected 2.0 from there in my 73
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I'd love to put a fuel injected 2.0 from there in my 73
You can do a 2.3 from a Fox Body. Mine is delayed waiting on the machine shop to get the crank back :( It's still at the place for paint too. Can't complain too much honestly. But you can go to a 2.3 Mustang EFI engine.
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I thought bout that but fuel injected 2.0 be cooler cause everybody is doing the 2.3 or 2.3 turbo
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Sticking to the 2.0 gives you a 121 lbs weight advantage over a 2.3, and I'm not a racer, but I think that extra weight is also in the wrong place for going around bends.
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Now it was time for the auto box to come out. The auto and the T9 next to each other made it possible to compare some measurements; the auto box seems to be 0.7 inch longer then the T9, shouldn't be to much of a problem in the swap I think?
Gear lever position seems to be allright.
The rear crossmember location is a little off, needs some fabricating.
The outgoing shaft on the auto box is beefier though, so that means looking for a different slip yoke (and new u-joint) for the T9 (25 spline, 1.38 inch outer diameter).
If any of you have been here before and know of (a) part number(s), please let me know.
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first hurdle easy pass; the oil pump pickup tubes from rear sump 85 Euro Scorpio Pinto to front sump 72 Pinto Wagon are a bolt in swap, no mean feat considering there's 13 years and the atlantic ocean between these two blocks.
Next hurdle to tackle is relocating the dipstick, just saw that Dianne's project is facing the same job in a 2.3!
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first hurdle easy pass; the oil pump pickup tubes from rear sump 85 Euro Scorpio Pinto to front sump 72 Pinto Wagon are a bolt in swap, no mean feat considering there's 13 years and the atlantic ocean between these two blocks.
Next hurdle to tackle is relocating the dipstick, just saw that Dianne's project is facing the same job in a 2.3!
Wow, another dipstick location challenge! Let's call the UN and demand equal design for each one ::). Too bad it's not a Cossie your dropping in!
Watching with great interest...
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Here’s a comparison of the 85 scorpio rear bowl sump and the 72 Pinto front bowl sump.
To my knowledge all European Pinto OHC engines have a rear bowl sump. In the past a lot of conversions of Pinto engines in older European cars meant a good deal of sump cutting and rewelding, this link http://www.premiermotorsportdevelopments.co.uk/ford-pinto-front-bowl-sump-with-pick-up-pipe-907-p.asp brings you to a firm that still does this work.
The American Pinto 2.0 sump pan remains to this day a seldom seen object of myth in Europe,
so here are some pictures.
After spending a day clearing out the garage (it became an unworkable little place, the old engine and C4 transmission and lots of other stuff that was in the way went to another lock up), I just had time for one little job this afternoon; threading the old dipstick tube hole for an M12 bolt, so that hole is securely closed off.
Some people will find this project not exciting and slow, but I’m trying to build a detailed record of what it takes to do a reasonably simple first engine swap. Newcomers to the hobby don’t learn a lot from forum posts like “me and my mate dropped a V12 in a Yugo before breakfast”.
I also believe in “stages” in the project, first see if I can build up a functioning car with a modern version of the original engine, and then look at ways to improve on that.
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Another few jobs done;
new dipstick tube in correct position, welded a bracket to pipe (scavenged from Scorpio) to fix to fuel pump delete plate upper bolt, and worked up the bottom with Devcon A plastic metal putty (yes, looks rather sloppy). I don’t think it will come lose. Ever.
I ordered a DANA SPICER 2-3-8431X 25 spline transmission slip yoke from Denny’s Driveshafts, is advertised for Ford C3, also fits T9.
Last pic is cleaning Oregon dirt from the gas tank with curious Pinto looking on with one eye.
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I pulled out the coil springs which were way to long, I’m feeling sorry for the person who put them there and didn’t know what was going wrong, must have been a hell of a job and with risks!
On the first image you can see the problem, left is already fixed, the right one is bending outwards in a frightening way, even against the shock, you can’t see it but the wheel isn’t touching the ground, so there is no tension on the suspension at all.
Next image is original height 11 2/8 inches, cut to 9 3/8 inches, the figure Oldkayaker mentioned for 71-73 Pinto’s.
To avoid confusion, measuring device is in cm’s.
After that I started removing old gasket from 2.0 injection intake, have to wait with reinstall because the wrong gasket (for carburetor intake) was in my engine gasket kit, so I’ll have to order a new one.
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Engine mount brackets were transferred to the 85 Euro Scorpio 2.0 block, just a bolt on, new engine mounts were used, Anchor 2363, I got these from Rockauto.
Then I put the engine back in the bay, no real problems here. When it is angled right, after fitting the T9 and making up a transmission bracket, it might just be that the injection manifold clears the hood, by a quarter of an inch or so, and the fan, which sticks out a little further (double belt pulleys), might clear the radiator. We’ll see how that works out.
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Dutch you can do mine next!!!
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Not to fast Pintocrazed, I might be reasonably good at mixing puzzles, but this thing ain't running yet!
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Looking good, but I would put some modlers clay on top of the manifold when you first run though the gears to make sure you do not ding the hood from the inside from the toque of the engine , 1/4 inch is very close to the hood, if it's in the very front you may be able to angle mill it and blend in the inside to match the flow, it should have more low end toque with that long runner manifold, are you using the stock vam or going mass air computer, and also that have a new vintage turbo kit on e bay for the engine , has the exhaust manifold and turbo , and the photos I see you do not have air conditioning, so you could mount the turbo and pipe it into a inter cooler and cross over straight into the intake manifold, nice work , Blaine in Missisippi😺
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Very nice 2.0 upgrade and T-9 installation. The front suspension spring free length measurements in that old link were from used springs I had. Just concerned that your ride height came out okay.
The stock 2.0 rubber motor mounts allow a lot of engine rotation. So if you do end up with only 1/4" hood clearance, a engine torque restraint may help. Today I have seen nylon straps/ropes used. Back in the early 70's, IECO & Spearco sold a "engine anti-shake bar" torque arm with an additional motor mount to reduce this rocking and it did not noticeably increase harshness (see item PA614 in the linked catalog below, page 22 of 28). It was made of angle steel so it is heavy. If interested in the IECO item, I can measure and sketch up its dimensions for replication.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?page=18
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Thanks for the info guys, help is always appreciated!
The ride height came out OK I think, may'be an inch below stock, as if knew what stock height is...
The car was standing much to high in front, and I haven't got a clue about what springs were used, so it was always going to be hit or miss. I had to use somebody's measurement!
The engine is in the bay but still a lot of work has to be done, T9, battery, radiator, drive shaft, and fuel tank have to be installed, all of these things will have an effect on the stance of the car.
I will post pictures of course when everthing is in there.
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Lost two days trying to fit the T9 gearbox with engine at maximum angle and lots of wobbly stacks of wood. Stupid.
Did some reading; how about centering your clutch plate first, yes, and put the gearbox in gear, so you can line up the splines…
My clutch center tool was a 10mm socket that just happened to have the right outer dimensions, I put a round headed bolt through it (filed a little less wide then the socket), and a piece of wire behind the nut, to be able to get the socket out again after tightening the pressure plate bolts.
Using a socket extension didn’t work, the socket would stay in there.
Ordered a $ 60.00 motorcycle scissor lift, mounted that on a cart, put the gearbox on top, and tied it to the lift with wire (why aren’t these boxes flat at the bottom?), to keep it from falling off.
Then I jacked the box up, and carted it more or less straight to the engine.
This time success, but still, this isn’t easy when you want to work alone, and the car is jacked up
only 14 inches from the floor. Space and equipment have their limits.
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Your getting there, has anyone here done one under the car with a dirt floor raise your hands, ✋, with that T-9,s extra gear will help alot, I still remember my 71 when I shifted into forth it always felt like I could shift one more time,
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While in college my only car was a 1950 Ford with an Olds V-8. Had to change the clutch without a jack or lift. I drove it onto the curb with two wheels in the street and two wheels on the curb. Worked ok removing the tranie but about the time I started to replace the tranie it started to rain cats and dogs. The water kept getting deeper and deeper but I had to finish the job or miss school. The water was running from front to rear of the car and I was under the car with my feet toward the front of the car. The water started to flow up both pants legs and ended up coming out around my collar and onto my face. Look at the number 6 picture to see how it looked when I did the clutch. But I did finish the clutch job. Anything for school.
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While in college my only car was a 1950 Ford with an Olds V-8. Had to change the clutch without a jack or lift. I drove it onto the curb with two wheels in the street and two wheels on the curb. Worked ok removing the tranie but about the time I started to replace the tranie it started to rain cats and dogs. The water kept getting deeper and deeper but I had to finish the job or miss school. The water was running from front to rear of the car and I was under the car with my feet toward the front of the car. The water started to flow up both pants legs and ended up coming out around my collar and onto my face. Look at the number 6 picture to see how it looked when I did the clutch. But I did finish the clutch job. Anything for school.
LOL You painted quite the image there! The things we do for our cars!!!
Dwayne :)
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After fitting the T9 box to the 2.0 Pinto a strange new problem arises; the shift stick is in perfect location length wise, so no transmission tunnel hacking, but it is out of the middle, to much to the passenger side. Forcing it to the middle means the engine isn’t straight in the bay.
This can’t be right. I checked the photo’s made during dismantling, and yes, I put the engine bracket’s on the 85 Scorpio lump the same way as they were on the engine that came out. However, that doesn’t mean that somebody couldn’t have made a mistake in the past.
I could only find one set of left and right pictures of engine brackets on a 2.0 Pinto on posts by “Orange Alpine” on turborangerfor ums.com. If his were positioned right, then mine were wrong.
So, lift the engine and tranny again a few inches, and switch the engine brackets.
Now I have the bracket with letter “L” facing me on the left when standing in front of the engine.
After bolting everything down again the shift stick is in the middle, but I must admit that I’m still not satisfied with what I’m looking at, there seems to be too much stress on the insulators, and the block is too close to the firewall for my peace of mind.
Page 16 of the Ford Pinto Tech Manual 71-72.pdf mentions a Support Bracket (D1FZ6028A D1FZ6029A), a Mounting Bracket (D1FZ6030A D1FZ6031A) and the Insulators (D1FZ6038A). The insulator part number does cross reference to Anchor 2363. What the other 2 should look like I don’t know. The ones I’ve got could theoretically even be 74’s?
I can’t find any other info on the install of the engine brackets and the positioning of the insulator (is it upside down?), I need some help here.
Could someone with a 71-73 2.0 Pinto please post some pictures of the setup in their (hopefully) untouched car?
I can’t start work on the transmission crossmember until I know that the engine is in the correct place.
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DUTCH,
I HAVE A 73 RUNABOUT WITH THE 2.O THATS NEVER BEEN OUT.SHOT ME A EMAIL ADDRESS AND ILL TAKE SOME TONIGHT.ILL ALSO POST THEM ON HERE SO ANYBODY CAN SEE FOR FUTURE REFERENCES
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Looking at the last photo I do believe you have the rubber mounts upside down , the cup goes to the top, this is from memory , with the cup on top it will deflect any oil that might drip on it if you have a leak , with the cup the way you have it , will hold oil or anything that my drip onto it , it will destroy the mount , the oil will turn the rubber to a black goo over time, a. Few will see this post and send you photos, later Blaine
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There ya go that was quick ,😀
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Thanks guys for the quick response. Pinto_one, the oil deflecting function of the cup already came to mind (after installing them and looking at them the logic kicked in), glad to have an extra opinion on that. Pintocrazed, looking forward to some pictures, and as you said please post, to completent the picture library of this great site. There are tons of images of 71-73's converted to 74 up and more exotic mounts but no originals.
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Looked again at the photos and hate to say this but you got the engine brackets backwards also, the parts marked are L & R the Left side goes on the left side , this is detrmined buy sitting in the divers seat looking forward , not standing in the front looking to the rear, it should fit well after,
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OK, makes sense, now the only other unknown to establish is in which direction the open sides of the isolator cups should point, because that also has an effect on the whereabouts of the tranny tail.
I would really like to get this right the third time, although it's good exercise, no need for going to the gym!
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I know about doing thing a few times before you get it right, I have had a few 2.0 over the years and the last one I pulled the engine out of was almost ten years ago, sitting here thinking about it I do remember that the open part was to the back, since the after market mounts you have may not have the alignment pins the org rubber mount had, that way you could not rotate then when you bolted them to the engine mount, they also were angled back alittle , the trans mount also had a pad like rubber mount that was angled to the front , (pushing forward) and keeping everything centered , like a big "V" the more I think about it the more I remember , (good for the mind😜) but you almost got it, soon you will have the smell of old oil burning from the exhaust manifold from a smooth running efi 2.0 😷
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This is the best pics I could take
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The angles of the motor mount flats on both ends and both sides are clearly arguing with each other, the mount steel brackets are mixed up there. Not saying that swapped back they will be 100% right but should be better as far as those angles. Look at pics directly above and mentally remove the rubber, the two flats are parallel.
L on a part as with all others means the left side as driver is sitting in the car.
Motors sitting correctly in the cars generally have the motor slightly higher in the front and why there is a correction angle generally built into the intake manifold to make the carb bowl pretty much dead level. Injectors do not need that though. Looks there like may need a bit more room on the back of intake to hood for the higher part of plenum there so that works out there as well.
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Thanks again for all the response, good comments and clear pictures, I'll see if I have time this weekend to turn it all around again!
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So here it is, correction of the confusion going south situation; pinto 2.0 motor mounts in stock position. The “L” on the left bracket is now facing the driver.
People with an eye for detail will notice that the wires through the insulators are absent.
Reason is that the holes in the engine brackets for them aren’t in the right position, they should be closer to the bolt. So cut the wire (Brian at Anchor says it usually doesn’t affect the function of the mount) , or drill extra hole in bracket. Next time around I might drill the extra hole.
Shifter location looks OK, but still a little to the passenger side. Looking at the offset on the stock tranny mount, I get the impression that it is meant to be like that.
In the next post I hope to make an impression (everybody rolling on the floor with laughter) with my home fabricated mock up tranny mount.
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We all need a good laugh.
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Glad you got it the right way , but your carpet does bring a tear to my eye , 😱
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He, lost momentum there for a moment. Been busy with domestic chores, and had a good motorbike Pentecost weekend with one of my brothers and family in the Belgian Ardennes.
To answer pinto_one, yes, this is one rough little Pinto, I’d say it even deserves a subcategory, call it a Ford Donkey. And I love my old donkey.
It has little dings and dents all around, and patches have been repainted at different times with whatever was around and the biggest brush (broom? Great runs) available. Interior is mixed red and black. It doesn’t bother me that much because I have no intention of bringing it back to showroom state.
Back to business, I first made a real simple mock up trans mount based on using the original Anchor rubber mount. The wood in the image would be replaced by U-iron. But the original style isn’t a masterpiece of rigid design to begin with.
Then I decided to hack up the Scorpio mount and weld 2 pieces of pipe on it to mount it just like the C4 mount, no changes to the body. My sincere apologies for the crap welding job, hope it stays together.
The Scorpio rubber mount has its own problems, because leaking oil can puddle on top of it and slowly eat it away. Luckily new ones are still available.
As I said before, I want the cheapest, fastest route to getting this car running again after an engine conversion. There are many options for up rating and renewing these parts, but they cost more money and time.
First a runner, then if satisfied uprates.
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hope you did not cut up your mount , you have to use the type of mount that came with the car or you are going to later have engine mount problems , the angle you have in the front makes the engine want to slide to the rear, the org transmission mount makes it move to the front , so every thing is centered , this set up is used to dampen engine vibrations at low and high speeds , same is used on some aircraft, you need a org pinto standard transmission mount , for a type "E" , it will bolt to your type 9 , got a few extra if you want one, have to check on the shipping , this should make things much better in the long run, later Blaine in the deep south state of Mississippi ,
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pinto_one, yes the missing link! Since my car had it's 4-speed replaced at some time by a C4, the bracket between the trans tail and rubber mount is gone. I've only seen a simple drawing of it in a parts catalog. I would like the original part, will send you a PM to talk shipping.
Your explanation of the working of the mounts makes sense, I haven't checked the angle of the original Scorpio engine mounts yet, if they are also at an angle I see no problem in using the Scorpio trans mount, if they are flat it's time to rethink.
But I'm not confident that it's a simple bolt on, I don't think the mount on the T9 tail is exactly in the same location as on the type E, think it's a tad further back and deeper, which would still mean some adaption like in image "trans mount idea 1"? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yes I got your pm, this setup takes the same rubber mount for both transmissions, just the bracket is different , this one is the newer style one, very early ones only had the one bolt at the bottom (which most of the time got lose over time) later ones had the extra tab with a cross bolt to pinch the tabs one each side tight , will pull it off tomorrow and ck on shipping , and send more photos, later Blaine
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Small but tedious job at the front, removing the viscous fan.
Trial fitting the original radiator made clear that the fan is too close to the radiator. This is caused by the Scorpio Pinto 2.0 having double pulleys and a wider viscous fan. So I had to make up two improvised tools; grind up an old 27 mm wrench to a width of 32 mm, and take a 51 mm chunk of square metal out of piece of U-iron. The U-iron is wide enough to fit over the pulley, and the “fork” holds the four pulley bolts to keep it from turning, on the other side the U-iron rests on the driver side frame bar.
The 32 mm wrench goes on the fan nut, and lengthened with a piece of pipe you pull it to the driver side (a little WD40 on the fan nut a day before may help), because this is a left hand thread.
Think I already know where it’s heading with the fan/radiator solution, more in next post.
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Easy cure for the radiator/fan to close syndrome, one I see that that is the radiator is not what cam with the car , but it can be used by bringing it to a radiator shop and have the side brackets swapped left to right moving the radiator forward a inch or so , I have done this to some V8 pintos in the past and trim the top just a tad , simple fix, Next I took a tape measure of the stock trans from the pinto , type "E" It's 11 1/2 " inches from the face of the trans (where it bolts to the bell housing to the bottom mount bolt , what is the type " 9 " 5 speed trans measurement of yours , know where one is here and thinking of putting one in my other pinto, cheaper than a T-5 , later Blaine ,
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Blaine, my measurement on the T9 from face of trans to bottom mount bolt hole is 14,57 inch (37cm).
This explains the extra adaptation that will be needed to get the original style mount in the right place.
I don’t know if the front shaft and clutch are going to give you problems though.
As for the T9 transmission, it had a lot of bad press; not being strong enough and all that. But it has the exact right dimensions for our early Pinto’s, and it has a huge aftermarket availability of parts and upgrades. If money is no problem you can go all the way to a Quaife QBE60G-H1 6-speed in-line sequential gearbox that can handle up to 375bhp (about $ 9200.- excl. taxes…) and it is a direct replacement upgrade for the T9!
More realistically, you can choose all kinds of upgrades to suit your wallet from countless companies because the T9 has a huge market in rallying, racing and kit cars.
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Thanks for measureing that for me , saves me from crawling in the mud to look and see, the yard wants a hundred bucks for it , and the few reasons I want it is its cheep , it's a five speed, and it lines up with the shifter hole better than the T5 , this is not going to be put on a high powered engine anyway, planning on a diesel conversion, adapt it to the engine , on the trans mount you can easy make it work, it only three inches back than stock, plain "A" would be shorten the trans bracket a inch and a half , and move the slots in the cross member a inch and a half, plan "B" would turn the trans cross member back wards and put a plate to pick up the studs in the mount and weld it on, hope this helps , post photos when you get the stuff , like to see it , later Blaine
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Thanks for measureing that for me , saves me from crawling in the mud to look and see, the yard wants a hundred bucks for it , and the few reasons I want it is its cheep , it's a five speed, and it lines up with the shifter hole better than the T5 , this is not going to be put on a high powered engine anyway, planning on a diesel conversion, adapt it to the engine , on the trans mount you can easy make it work, it only three inches back than stock, plain "A" would be shorten the trans bracket a inch and a half , and move the slots in the cross member a inch and a half, plan "B" would turn the trans cross member back wards and put a plate to pick up the studs in the mount and weld it on, hope this helps , post photos when you get the stuff , like to see it , later Blaine
You're still doing the conversion? WOW. Can't wait to see. That EFI is too high BTW...
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Thanks Blaine! Trans mount arrived yesterday, I’ll have a good look at how to fit this piece, first thing I noticed is that it is slightly angled towards the drivers side of the car (not bend or anything it looks like), is this part of how the three mounts are supposed to work together? If bolted up it would try to tilt the trans somewhat to the left? Or is the type E bottom mount at an angle?
Regarding the radiator issue, certainIy after Blaine commented that it wasn’t the original piece, I decided to splash out on this one, I went to QSP products in Waalwijk (just an hour’s drive from where I live) and bought me a new aluminum radiator that is made specifically for MK1 and MK2 Ford Escort RS 2000’s (also Pinto engined). Trial fitting went smoothly, no cutting required to the sides of the radiator frame, just a little bit at the bottom. Will show more pic’s later after the SPAL electric fan I ordered arrives from QSP. I first had to figure out if there was room for a suction or blowing fan, luckily the suction fan fits.
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Nice radiator, height not going to be an issue??..
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Hey glad the got the mount I sent, and do not worry about shipping or paying for the mount, just happy to help out a fellow pinto owner with a great project, as for the mount being at an angle is odd , it is supposed to be flat , did you bolt the bottom up first then the side pinch bolt, you have to make sure the bottem is seated before you tighten the side one, the rubber mount has an alignment pin on it so make sure it is fully in when you tighen the nut , the two studs on top is for a bracket that supports the exhaust pipe , you can use flat bar on it, I removed it to save weight and shipping cost, can take a photo for you so you can copy it , and post more photos as you go, later. Blaine
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74 PintoWagon, with positioning tests it worked out all right, it doesn't hit the front valance. Hight is 19,29 inches. Don't be confused by the radiator on the right that was in there, because if it's not the one the car came with, like Blaine said, it's not a good benchmark.
Pinto_one, I haven't test fitted the mount yet, made a new pic, hope you see what I mean by the angle.
Haven't got time before next week to sneak of to the garage.
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let me know how the radiator fits.been seeing these on ebay but wasn't sure if they would fit
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74 PintoWagon, with positioning tests it worked out all right, it doesn't hit the front valance. Hight is 19,29 inches. Don't be confused by the radiator on the right that was in there, because if it's not the one the car came with, like Blaine said, it's not a good benchmark.
Gotcha thanks, makes sense now..
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Ok , I see what you mean, if it's that way with the alinement pin/tab one the rubber mount it could be they made the mount wrong , pin placement due to year of the car , the rubber mount I brought new over ten years ago for my 76 wagon, but bit the dust (or salt water ) when hurricane Katrina passed over my butt and it went under water at the airport I was working at the time, but you can drill a new hole in the mount to relocate the pin or just grind the pin off, ck it against your old rubber mount , good info for anyone else ( without a parts book ) to know if they are swapping around parts from different years , (But we know your going to sneek into the garage tonite when the wife's asleep and take a look) I often do when I'm doing the same thing 😀
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Fitting the radiator required a little cutting at the bottom of the support, the top horizontal flat part of this u-iron (sort of) had to be shortened to the same width as the bottom one. Second image still shows a little triangle at the right that also had to be pinched out.
1.38 inch square tubing was used for keeping correct distance from original mounts, radiator doesn’t touch anywhere else, original Pinto hoses fit, and I’ve got 1.18 inch between block and SPAL electric suction fan, I’m well pleased with this.
Total cost of this radiator including cap and temp switch was $ 299.80 (excl. freight, I picked it up). To get it working I still need some wire, relay and fuse.
One piece of advice, I bought this from a company that I can go back to if it is faulty, go direct on Ebay and you might get yourself a box from China with a similar but not quite item that didn’t pass B2B export quality checks.
Next fun hurdle is going to be the alternator brackets, the Scorpio brackets put the alternator half way into the frame rails, and the Pinto brackets don’t fit the Scorpio alternator. To be continued!
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Wow , you have plenty of room now , I would have used the clutch fan to keep everything simple, looking good
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With the alternator I decided to take the easiest route for now, fit the 72 brackets to the Scorpio 2.0 and mount the alternator that was in the Pinto originally, which was a newer piece than the one in the Scorpio anyway. Top bracket didn’t fit the ’85 thermostat housing, so the housing was switched.
I’ll have to find a shorter V-belt though (Pinto’s water pump pulley was bigger in diameter), and I’m stuck with the external voltage controller. If this functions I can try to change to the double pulley from the Scorpio, have an extra belt, if it doesn’t I’ll have to make up mounts for the Scorpio alternator.
Then I started work on the electric fuel pump bracket, made it from 1.18x1.18 inch angle iron and parts left from the Scorpio bracket. It positions the pump between the tank and the rear axle on the driver’s side. Square notch out of iron at the right clears the tank strap mounting hole.
Fuel system think through and execution takes up a lot of time, and parts from several suppliers!
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Time for an update! I must admit that I was quite humbled by 79prostreet’s images, what a beautiful car. I almost didn’t dare post anymore. But, seeing 76hotrodpinto soldiering on regardless, I’ll just carry on with my Ford Donkey.
Fuel system; I decided to use the original fuel pickup pipe and line as the return line, so I removed the old filter around the pickup.
Then it took some thinking about where to make a hole for the new pickup, several times remounting the tank to check for space, and also very important, you have to be able to get to the back of the hole to tighten a nut.
I finally decided on a hole just to the right of the original sending unit. For pickup it’s bolt on AN D10 parts, which is a bit over the top (especially as half of it is unseen in the tank), I’m sure there are arguments against this, and it could be done in a more simple way, but at this point I don’t want to spend time familiarizing myself with fuel line pipe, bending and flaring tools and soldering and what have you. Of course, I still had to make up tools to get the AN parts fastened.
The vapor emission exit on the tank will just get a piece of a hose and a tiny air filter at the end, and the return fuel line will be used as fuel delivery line.
I used D10 parts because the original set up in the Scorpio was done this way, big diameter small distance input to pump, and after that small diameter to filter and engine.
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Looks like you got some aircraft fittings , wish I knew you were going to use that I could have sent you some I have , (I work on aircraft ) one to go though the tank is a bulk head fitting. AN 832 and the nut that goes on it AN 924 , but remember that these are not the 45 degree standard fittings , these are 37 degrees, or JIC spec , hope this helps , it's the little things that will get you , you would be surprised of the things aircraft owners has done in trying to work and fix the small things that end up costing more money than they ever thought of , even ther lives ,
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Thanks for the offer pinto_one, but shipping cost would be too high for these few items. They are available here so no problem.
Getting it all fumbled into the tank required some elastic fingers, patience and the tools from the last post. The pickup doesn’t block the original fuel sending unit as this goes up and sideways when inserted.
Speaking about the sending unit, my fuel gauge wasn’t working properly before so I took it apart following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=228YQN_SkKI called “How to repair a 68 Mustang Fuel Sending Unit. A lot of dust came out (dried out in a few months), the pickup wire windings were treated with contact spray and rubbed with a clean cloth to remove excess, and the swivel contact was bent outward just a touch. After that I had the just about the same multimeter readings as the man in the video, so in the tank with this unit, and install the tank back under the car.
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Great , I,see,you got the lines almost done , try to get the pick up tube in the middle of the tank if you can, or almost to the back, on mine when I have less that a 1/4 of a tank and take off kind of quick before I hit second gear it just falls on its face , the reason is the gas (the few gallons left ) goes to the back of the tank and uncovers the pick up and sucks air , then the big stumble afterwards, so I always fill up when I get a 1/4 tank, also I found on really hot days it happens before I get that low , one I believe the fuel is getting hotter because the fuel is circulating from tank to hot engine and back, as the fuel heats up it has a chance to vapor lock the car starts to stumble a lot, more when I have a the A/C on high in traffic, I insulated both fuel lines under the hood and helped big time , now knowing this and if it happens to you car your u will not have to pull your hair out, later Blaine
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Some progress the past couple of days, I fabbed a fuel filter clamp from 0,04 inch (1mm) thick sheet metal, and put an old bicycle tire in it as rubber insulation. I mounted the clamp and big canister style original filter in the left rear wheel well under the trunk floor, just behind the fuel filler pipe. This brings it nicely in the vicinity of the old fuel return line, which now is the delivery line. The vapor exit on the tank now has a tiny air filter as a vent.
Next I installed a new piece of brake vent hose (on top of the rear axle) and pushed it through the tank strap hole like it was before, the old one just broke off when I looked at it.
I installed the driveshaft, taking care not to over tighten the U-bolts at the rear. The fuel pump wires from the Scorpio harness were run in rubber grommets through an existing hole in the trunk floor, ready to be coupled up later to new wire running to the front of the car.
This leaves only the exhaust pipe to be rejoined, somebody in the past cooked up an exhaust that is completely welded together from old pipe, I had to cut it to get some decent access to remove the engine and box.
For the moment I reinstalled the 72 Pinto exhaust manifold because this means the least hassle with exhaust fabrication. A decent system can always be built at a later stage.
When that’s done I’m finished with work under the car (for this phase that is)!
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I forgot about a little something under the car, clutch cable!
I count myself lucky because the person who converted this car to an automatic somewhere in the past didn’t remove the clutch pedal and cable. Of course there was a small hitch, the hole for the clutch cable in the T9 bell housing was only 0.47 inch (12,5mm) and I needed 0.55 (14mm). This wouldn’t have been a big problem with the transmission on a bench, but now it was already in place.
No straight access with a drill or dremel, so I patiently spent a few hours on my back under the car with a rat tail file. After that it just was a question of hooking the cable in the clutch fork.
No trouble with crossmember clearance or anything.
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Still looks factory too me 😀
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Last week I’ve tested the electric fuel pump, it works!
After that I got the car of its stands and made a bracket for the L-jetronic AFM and air filter. There was no way that I could use the Scorpio airbox in the Pinto bay. I’ve read all about cold air intake but when I found a cone filter producer who actually said that during normal driving the airstream reduces the positive effect to near zero, and that one should keep the filter out of a water spray area, I decided to put it where the most room was.
The intake manifold in the Scorpio was already supported with a bracket on the engine mount. I replicated a similar construction and added the AFM support. Cone filter is a not to expensive part by German outfit raidhp, who also rather conveniently have a nice L-jetronic AFM to round cone filter adapter.
One minor issue, it’s one of those things we all run into all the time I think, you fab something, and then there is no room for the ECU connector to plug into the socket on the part you mounted…
Have to go make a ¾ inch spacer!
After this it’s all electrickery, now where is that Scorpio wiring loom.
One other thing, If anyone has got an extra early Pinto manual gear lever shift boot and mounting plate lying around please send me a pm, I’m missing those parts.
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One more mechanical job, swap the throttle cable, and how easy can it be; I only had to get out the trusted rat tail file again and widen up the bulkhead hole to 0.71 inch (14mm) and hook up to the 72 pedal was just the same as with the 85 Scorpio.
On the manifold I found that the cable was to tight, it opened up the butterfly valve a little, but there is no way of adjusting the cable.
I finally compressed the gold anodized spring contraption (it still has a little play left) at the manifold end of the cable and fitted a hose clamp behind the bracket, now the butterfly valve is fully closed.
I think the spring thing protects the cable against breaking when someone wants to push the pedal through the floor, have to be more careful then.
I could always cut a coil or two from the spring to restore more of its function, but let’s first see if this works.
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Looks like your getting there , soon you will have it running , did you get that transmission mount I sent you to work , just like to know how close it was , later Blaine
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Looks like your getting there , soon you will have it running , did you get that transmission mount I sent you to work , just like to know how close it was , later Blaine
There is a mount that works out of the box? I'm having to custom fab one for my EFI conversion.
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This one he is using is a type "9" five speed gearbox , the mount that bolts to it fits the early pinto type "E" four speed gearbox , but the trans mount is a few inches back and he did not have a standard mount , so I sent him one , he took out a C-4 auto , now going efi five speed , looks nice ,
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This one he is using is a type "9" five speed gearbox , the mount that bolts to it fits the early pinto type "E" four speed gearbox , but the trans mount is a few inches back and he did not have a standard mount , so I sent him one , he took out a C-4 auto , now going efi five speed , looks nice ,
Cool. I'm building one soon. Too many projects :(
The King is running though. Almost ready for the road!
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Blaine, I'll be honest, I haven't gotten around to fabbing your four speed mount to the type 9, it has the converted Scorpio mount under there for now. I know it may not withstand the original "cradle" mount set up, but it will have to do for the moment. Still glad to have the original part here for backup or later install.
Right now I'm caught in a wiring loom web, and trying to get out before the spider sucks my brain dry.
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Yep, it’s running. See the clip on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_milVcO9ZC0
The separate injection wiring loom from the Euro Scorpio 2.0 is an absolute doodle to install, it only takes two wires to make it run, black one to switched 12 volt (green/red wire close to ignition on steering column), and red/black wire to fuel pump, that’s it, just like Dominic Bolton said on his Escort to EFI conversion page.
No mistakes to make with connectors because they’re all different and only fit in one place.
I did manage to increase the difficulty somewhat by using the Scorpio starter motor which meant rewiring the solenoid as per instruction found on the net, and adding an electric fan.
The first few starts gave me a perfect priming pump, but no start, no click, nothing. Investigation (helped by my brother in law who knows how to use a multimeter) showed there was no starter signal to the solenoid, that’s odd, the original wiring had never been touched and it functioned before taking the motor out.
Then a eureka moment, I took out an automatic, the starter wire first goes to the automatic and doesn’t work unless the car is in neutral. I cut the red/blue wires at the connector and connected them directly, another try, and Vrooom (sort of).
Timing still has to be set correctly, exhaust is leaking, box is ordered to put ECU and relays in, etc., but most important is that it is alive.
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Great that it kind of runs , soon you will have everything sorted out and a clean up after , I also changed the starter on my pinto with one off of a Ford Explorer but I got rid of the orgenal solenoid on top, , used a aircraft AN fuse holder and ran the wire to the starter ,spins the engine good, we all like to see the finale outcome , later , your friend in the USA
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A gas leak at the fuel rail was fixed by fastening a connection, ignition timing was set to 12 degrees BTDC with a new strobe light, and it runs all right.
The ECU, relays and surplus wiring loom are now all cozy together in this inner fender wall mounted box, still some loose and wrong colored wires around, but there’s no excuse for not doing a road test anymore.
Hood clearance for EFI was checked with the Play-Doh test, no problems here. Hood in place and no one will be the wiser about what’s under there.
Now it’s a question of choosing a good day to turn this thing 90 degrees around on it’s dollies, lifting it, get the dollies out of the way, push it outside, and try to get it into gear.
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Great job , we all look forward to see how the new updated pinto engine compared to the old one , your mileage should be better than before, let us know when you do your test run and a few numbers , also I would take an extra 5 gallon of gas in case you run low , my fuel pump is kinda set up like yours and when it is less than a 1/4 tank it stumbles a lot , and when I make a hard left turn the fuel runs away from the pickup and it goes dead , and the thought of pulling off to the Side of the road which most have a huge angle to the right the pump will not pick up any fuel, hope this helps when you jump on the gas with the tank low and wonder why it falls on its face after , good luck and looking good , your friends in the USA
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Well, my donkey is back on the road and is fully drivable. So far no parts have fallen off.
It has a totally unstressed feel to it, and plenty of pickup. It starts and idles good, It will do city traffic 30 mph in fourth without missing a beat, and I’ve had it up to 75 mph, which is already 20 mph more than the top speed in the former configuration, and there is lots of pedal left.
So this effectively ends project phase 2, in which I wanted to update the car to a more modern drive train to make it better usable in the 21st century. It is my only car (luckily my work is at bicycling distance) and now can be used again for domestic duties, the grocery run, things like that.
Of course there is a lot of work that still has to be done, but phase 3 will have a more relaxed rolling resto feel to it. No more pressure to get it moving before winter.
To do list: adjust valve clearance, renew brake oil (a constantly burning red light to remind you that you’re only running on one brake circuit doesn’t make you want to push the car to its limits), I’ve got no speedo now because the Scorpio’s T9 has an electronic sender, I’m using the nav for speed.
Fuel gauge is still not working OK, have to take a look at the instrument cluster voltage regulator.
Turn signal canceling lip to the right is broken, horn buttons on steering wheel are broken, safety belts keep locking up.
I want a new exhaust sytem and the list goes on and on.
But for now, many many thanks to everyone (especially Blaine) for their help and interest in this project, the feeling that even silent viewers are looking over your shoulder makes you want to push on and get things done, and I’m happy with what I’ve achieved; theoretically 28% more horsepower, fuel injection, 5-speed, no weight gain, and all on a budget.
From being a youngster, I’ve always dreamt of doing an American “Hot-Rod” style engine conversion, and no matter how small, this was mine.
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Congrats! I know how it feels to finally be back on the road. And doing all the work yourself should bring a prideful smirk to your face.
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Great to see the car up in running , especially when it's in a far away country, love to see the looks on old American tourists when they see your pinto wagon driving down the street , priceless. If you know anyone that's going to or near New Orleans to be a tourist here let me know , got some goodies to send back to you ,and thanks for sharing your progress
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Congratulation s on getting your Pinto back on the road. Enjoy!
Dwayne :)
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Glad to hear it's up and running, have fun with it..