Shiny is Good! => Your Project => Topic started by: 376t on April 19, 2020, 06:55:53 PM

Title: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 376t on April 19, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
Anyone know of any straight 6 projects ?
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: Wittsend on April 20, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
There is insufficient room for a straight 6 engine. The straight 4 cylinder barely fits in a Pinto. The only decent straight 6 (Ford wise) is the 300 truck engine and it is big and heavy.  It would probably go back to where the radio knobs are on the dash and assuming a manual trans require an odd, rearward mounted shift lever like the Shelby Cobra has. The Ford 144, 170, 200, 250 engines are ever so slightly shorter but still not practical. And they are limited by a log intake manifold. A Falcon/Maverick/Comet makes a better candidate for the straight 6 as they came with the 144, 170, 200, 250 engines . But, even there it might be a struggle to make the better, bigger 300 motor fit.

Even with the straight 4 cylinder the modern Zetec, Duratec engines would be a better configuration in a Pinto. But the oil pan and cross member seem to be real issue. Without a special built tube chassis the small Pinto engine compartment is a really relegated to what fit originally. There are some V-8 Pinto's out there but it is best those who own them speak for themselves.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 71pintoracer on April 20, 2020, 04:26:29 PM
It would be interesting to do some measuring just to see. But the first question is are they front sump? I can't remember. The 300 six is really heavy and Pinto's are nose heavy anyway. The 250 would be my choice, the most cu. in. and same size as far as the car engines go.
A V-8 is not a cakewalk either but it is doable. When l put the V-8 in my '71 the swap headers dictated where the engine had to go so l had to move the firewall back. l also used a short water pump but still had to put the radiator in front of the support. l measured very carefully and got a nice fitting radiator that didn't hang way down under the car. IMO that's one of the worst looks going. My support was flat black about a third of the way down from the factory so l repainted it that way and then wherever l could look at the front of the car and see the aluminum radiator, like behind the grill or through the valance that got painted flat black as well. lt gave it a nice clean look.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 376t on April 20, 2020, 07:13:36 PM
the 300 had rear or center sump , no front sumps to my knowledge . Stock engine bay won't work , but moving the firewall might allow it and some fab on the oil pan. The smaller sixes now have an aluminum head available  with bolt on intake and they are lighter than a v8. I'm going to research this further and see where it goes. Any input is greatly appreciated and hope to see more.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 71pintoracer on April 28, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
A friend of mine has a 66 Mustang with a 250, as best as l can measure from the back of the valve cover to the water pump pulley is 28Ē. I measured a Ď76 model l have and itís 31Ē from the firewall  to the radiator support so.....maybe? I think it would be really cool! And different!

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Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 376t on April 29, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
I think the smaller 6 cyl would be the better choice to try the 144 to 250 family. Dry sump oil system would be a big help. I have been researching this for a short time and continue to do so. I don't have any small sixes available right now, but I do have a 300. I guess I should quit thinking about it and just try it.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: Wittsend on April 29, 2020, 10:54:15 AM
I'm not sure what your eventual goal is (aside from the challenge of the task) but there are other non-American engines as good choices. The Toyota 2JZ is capable of significant horsepower and every bit as big as a Ford 300. I'm not recommending the straight 6 swap but you might as well use a noteworthy engine if you proceed.

One of the issues with a Pinto is the pedal box is quite small. An inline 6 will force the bellhousing back (roughly 8-10 inches), that and a larger engine likely means a wider transmission tunnel. It might create a situation like sitting into a fighter jet - at an angle. I would suggest mocking up the proposed scenario (transmission tunnel modifications) with cardboard in the interior. There might not even be room to accommodate the clutch/brake pedals (the front tire inner fender intrudes into the interior).

The 144-250 engine family is not noted as a performance engine. It was basically an economical engine for low power requirements. And by today's standards its 15-20 MPG is not significant.  Most were rated at about 100 hp regardless of size due to smog requirements as they got bigger. The last car I recall the engine being use was an 80's Mustang. So, even the newest is roughly a 35 year old engine. A straight 6 swap is far better suited for a Maverick/Comet or a Falcon (early) Comet.

If you proceed I wish you the best. As mentioned I HIGHLY recommend mock up with cardboard before you cut anything.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 376t on April 29, 2020, 08:45:47 PM
Thanks for all the food for thought .  Looking at weight positioning along with all the other things to be concerned with . Might have to really consider staying v8 or going back to a 2.3 t5 . We'll  see in the next couple months which way to go.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: pinto_one on April 29, 2020, 09:00:00 PM
I agree with Wittsend , a Straight six is very wrong for any pinto unless you put a tube frame and use it a a drag car , my famous words is donít cut the car , it will be forever loss if you give up and only good for scrap , I have seen it happen way to many times , but here we can give you some other way to fill the bill for lust for horsepower , the tried and true 5.0 transplant worked well when thought out , but now parts to install it are now rare and short of the gold standard,  next on the list is turbo 2.3 , yep easy to do and kind of keeps the handling of the car much better ,  it to is becoming rare , I have been watching this happen over the years , I have a Pinto cruserwagon that I will have to swap in something, the V6 that was in it was used to fix and finish my V6 pinto sedan , and I have been looking to install an engine that is a bolt in that brings Power and good MPG and can still buy parts , and my choice is the 3.7 V6 out of the mustang , 305 hp stock , 30 plusís mpg , it look wide but thatís the valve covers , in the back across the engine itís 21Ē wide ,  same long , will have to mod the oil pan and come up with a shorter intake , This is my next project (I retire in November) but figuring out how to make it fit well will come in the next few months,  if it doesnít then in goes the Tesla drive train , then a four wheel drive 10 second Cruse wagon , ( plan ďBĒ) just in case plan ďAĒ does not fit , have a good one and everyone try to come up with a bolt in , later
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 71pintoracer on April 29, 2020, 09:48:19 PM
Back in the 80's when l was dirt track racing there was a class for in-line sixes, most ran the Chevy 250, the Ford guys used the 240 truck engine because of the integral intake on the 250. 390 4 barrel carb, headers and hot cams. Let me tell you those things were fast! So with an aluminum head available for the Ford 250, now you can raise the compression, l'm guessing there may be different intakes available? A 4 barrel? Maybe 3 one barrels? How cool would that be? It fit just fine in the 80 Mustang so.....
But like Wittsend stated, do your research, measure, measure, measure! If you have to cut and reweld so be it. It's your car. I had to cut the firewall on my '71 when l put the V-8 in it but l didn't use a hatchet and a sledgehammer to do it. When it was done you couldn't tell it had been touched. I personally think it would be super cool.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 71pintoracer on April 30, 2020, 06:11:50 PM
I was at my friends machine shop today, look at what l spied! Someone is still making a racing engine out of a six cylinder!(

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Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: 376t on April 30, 2020, 09:47:34 PM
One of the reasons I am curious about the 6 cylinder build is because I still have one from my dirt track days. It did ok against a bunch of 350 chevies. I'm certainly no engineer, but when you add weight it's gotta be put in the best possible place. I wish I could ask the Pinto engineers why they hung 3 cylinders in front of the ball joint centerline.
Title: Re: 6 cylinder project
Post by: Wittsend on May 01, 2020, 10:48:08 AM
... I wish I could ask the Pinto engineers why they hung 3 cylinders in front of the ball joint centerline.

I believe it was to make the leg room large in the car. The Pinto (and Vega) were the first really small American cars of that era. Americans were not use to less room. And as a enhancement to the small import, a selling point would have been less external space, but not given up internally. This forced the firewall forward and as you noted the forward positioning of the engine. One only needs to open the Pinto door in a parking space to notice how large the door is. I had a Datsun 240Z and it had exceptional leg room. My Pinto has similar and while completely different cars driving the Pinto reminds me of driving the 240Z.

Lots of irony with the Pinto. The side curvature was stated to create cross wind stability. Bill Cosby use to voice over a commercial where they would drive Pinto's past huge fans to show that they could not be blown around on the highway.  Then there is the the argument that the Pinto is more aerodynamic backwards than forward.