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Offline frostedflakejake

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1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« on: January 11, 2013, 03:21:39 PM »
I purchased my first pinto about a week ago now. As you can see in the pictures, it's a orange 1972 Runabout with a 351 Cleveland shoved in the hood. Has a C6 with that manual shift. It was used as a street/drag vehicle. It came with a rear valence off the vehicle. Rear axle is locked; haven't calculated ratio yet. I honestly don't know a lot about working on cars, but everyone has to start somewhere. My father has successfully restored/built many vehicles so I will have him to turn to if I must. I have spent my entire life surrounded by a hotrod community; it's about time I got into it.

My Plans

First off, my picture for this vehicle is a half sleeper. What I mean is that I don't want the vehicle to look like a stock pinto from the 70's. If I show the car to someone I want them to think "Wait.... is this just a pinto with new shoes and paint or is it a real deal machine?"

Do body work until I get sick and tired of it. Might replace the driver side front quarter panel if I decided it's necessary. It has quite a lot of funk going on with it .

Create a custom front valence that will fit. The radiator got moved so far forward that a stock valence will no longer fit.

Get the vehicle repainted. I will do all the body work, sanding, and lay down my own primer. I will then send the car to Maaco. My father and I have found that this is the best way to ensure that Maaco does a good paint job. I've painted smaller objects before (motorcycle helmet) with pretty good success, but you can only get so far without a booth. As of right now, I'm thinking of a very dark green with very little flake.

Probably paint the bumpers a matte black. Not too sure. Have to wait and see how the paint turns out.

Change wheels. I can't handle the Weld Wheels. They offer little of style to me.

Put street tires on the front. I'll keep the street radials on the rear if they fit whatever wheels I decide I want.

Get rid of that ridiculous hood scoop and get a different air cleaner. Planning on a hood with a little bulge. Maybe 1.5"

I would like to lower the ride. But I know it will destroy the usability of the vehicle due to the headers. I will have to balance ride height and having the get the Hooker headers designed for the 351c swap. I won't be able to decide until I see the repainted pinto on the new wheels.

My fuel pump is hard mounted and makes a horrific amount of noise. I'm going to try to rubber mount it and maybe even deadening the panel it's mounted to in order to try to reduce the noise.

Add a power steering booster.

Add a power break booster.

Add cutouts and a different muffler (question on this below!!!!)

Change the carb. It has a drag carb with no choke and is a little unpredictable for my street use.



So that's the list! Nothing will get done until may. But I'm going to try and start collecting the few parts that I can. I'm a college student and I bought the vehicle over my winter break and I have a summer job at Ford so progress will be slow, but steady. I plan on keeping this car for ever. I really like the looks of it.

My first question! What muffler would you guys suggest for shutting up the 351? Since I want the car to kinda be a sleeper, I can't have it as loud as it is right now. I think it has flowmaster 40's. It sounds great, but I need it to be quiet for my purpose. My buddies have all run electrical cutouts dumping before muffler with great success. I was thinking of doing the same. The exhaust work on the car is really nice and I hate to cut it up, but I need to. Hell, even just so I can come home into my neighborhood past midnight without causing a stir. I will disconnect the mufflers and listen the vehicle with open headers first to make sure it's a noise I can live with. But I need ideas! I've never looked a mufflers to make something quieter before; only louder.

My second question! I don't suppose there is anyone who stamps out body panels for us pinto folk? If not, I've found a few places that makes fiberglass body panels. What is the word about these places? I know some people glass wonderfully and some of them should be shot for selling their product.

That's it for now :) ..... i think. I don't know much of anything about the motor. I guy I bought it from bought it how it was and he bought it how it was and so on and so forth.

Onto pictures!








Offline cannonball

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 05:00:06 PM »
looks great matey i like the orange my dad did his back in 73 he changed it from green to orange that was a bright daring color back here in england at that time,

have you any idea what it ran like in the 1/4 mile,,,

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 06:22:30 PM »
Quote
Create a custom front valence that will fit. The radiator got moved so far forward that a stock valence will no longer fit.

http://www.fordpinto.com/your-project/new-spoilerair-dam/


Quote
get the Hooker headers designed for the 351c swap.

Haven't been made since the 80s. You are looking at custom made. (Going through this now for my BOSS 302)
Just had a second look at your pictures. Are the collectors flat ?
Tubes go like this into the collectors  ....  ? Or like this ::  ? First one are the Headman Hustler Headers. If they are in real good shape & not ceramic coated yet, then get it done. It will make them last longer. No one makes them anymore.

With a built 351C you'll never have a daily driver (sounds like that is what you want). Work hard, save gas money....you are going to need it.


Quote
Add a power steering booster.

Add a power break booster.


I doubt you have the room. (Anyone know if Norm's car has boosters ?)

You have any good pictures of how the engine is mounted ?
Under car pictures ?


No need for a new carb (what size is it ?). You can put a choke in the one you have.

Some of your street problems may be a large cam. Maybe a stall converter ? How high ?

Due the lots of unknowns on it, you may end up doing a tear down to see what you have in the C-6 & what you have for a converter.

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 10:13:52 PM »
Quote
have you any idea what it ran like in the 1/4 mile,

High 12's is what I've been told.

And yeah I've read through that thread with the front spoiler airdam. Thanks though :)

I'm pretty sure the tubes go into the collectors like this ::

Quote
With a built 351C you'll never have a daily driver

Sorry for the confusion. I have no desire for this to be a daily driver. It will be driven every weekend. I just want it to not look so much like a drag car.
Quote
I doubt you have the room.

I know it's wishful thinking. I honestly think I will be able to fit the power steering booster. But I suppose i'll just have to find out.
Quote
You have any good pictures of how the engine is mounted ?
Under car pictures ?

Unfortunately not :/ I am punching myself for not taking a bunch of pictures when I had the vehicle. I dropped it off for storage a few days ago.

Quote
No need for a new carb (what size is it ?). You can put a choke in the one you have.

Some of your street problems may be a large cam. Maybe a stall converter ? How high ?

Due the lots of unknowns on it, you may end up doing a tear down to see what you have in the C-6 & what you have for a converter.

I haven't a clue. I plan on pulling the motor in May along with taken inventory. I am uneasy about how much is unknown about the drivetrain and the entire car, but nonetheless it should be a fun summer project.

Thanks for your input! I really appreciate your time.

Offline From_Jonah

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 10:50:23 PM »
Holy smokes that's a beautiful car.
1977 wagon - baby blue full restoration project.

1980 wagon - (77 front clip) converted to cruising wagon. (Sold in 2015. Canít find her again.)

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 05:12:25 AM »
From the front (your pics showing the headers under car) the headers look like the Headman Hustler version. Did you look at the motor mounts ? They "normal" in the normal location ?
The headman ones require front mounts.






They do not (from what I can see) look like the Hooker type, that the back two tubes on each side go through the fender & wrap around the frame rail.

Looks like a very good project ! Hope you keep us up-dated as you go along !

Offline cannonball

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 08:28:31 AM »

its a problem when you can not fit the regular front valence, that is a make or break look for a pinto the original was a nice curved jobbie that was spot on for the car the hot pants front spoiler/ valence looks perfect on a pinto but all the other flat front air dams look o wrong really spoil the look of the car,

Offline racer99

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 09:56:27 AM »
^^^^
Sorry,I disagree.
Look at the avatar picture above your post.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 03:34:07 PM »
I wondered when someone was gonna buy that car. It was on Craigslist for awhile but too far away from me to check out.
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Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 05:35:38 PM »
Quote
Did you look at the motor mounts ? They "normal" in the normal location ?

The motor mounts are not in the normal location, or at least I don't believe they are. They look to be moved forward, as you expected!

I will most certainly keep this updated as I progress. Although I'm afraid to say that progress will be non-existent until May except for trying to locate a few parts. Like a new rear bumper. Someone majorly dented the one that's on the car.
Quote
Holy smokes that's a beautiful car

Thanks! Unfortunately I would have to respectfully disagree. It is a bit "in your face" for my taste, but if you are going for that look that it most certainly fits the bill! Also it does need a fair share of body work. Every panel needs some sort of help.

Quote
its a problem when you can not fit the regular front valence, that is a make or break look for a pinto the original was a nice curved jobbie that was spot on for the car the hot pants front spoiler/ valence looks perfect on a pinto but all the other flat front air dams look o wrong really spoil the look of the car,


Well I'll try to remember that you won't like the look then  ;)
I hardly think that what I'll end up doing will look as correct as the stock front valence, but I like to think it will look better or at least less threatening than how it looks right now.
Quote
I wondered when someone was gonna buy that car. It was on Craigslist for awhile but too far away from me to check out.

Same! I've been following it for months and was wary because it never sold and all the other ones on Craigslist had. I think the lack of knowledge about the car might have scared people off. The seller was a kind old man once he opened up. Had lots of projects including a mint Road Runner in his barn!

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 05:06:08 PM »
So I was thinking, lots of people use these c6 trans' with the manual shift kits for drag use. So how do they launch the car? For those that don't know, its a floor shifter that moves strictly forward and backward. As so:

R
N
3
2
1

So how the heck do they launch the car? Keep it in neutral, rev, and then slam the shifter all the way back into first?
I'm merely curious; i don't race and i don't plan on racing.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 05:17:32 PM »
Professional racers usually use a 'line lock' in the brake system, which does what it sounds like, it lets you apply the brakes, engage the lock, and it holds pressure in the lines for you. Then car goes in gear, and throttle is depressed to desired level. Switch lock off, and car goes vroom, down the track. lol :)

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 06:30:28 PM »
A trans brake is what they run as well as manual shift valvebodies
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 08:09:24 PM »
That works, too. :) lol Forgot about trans-brakes.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 09:25:47 PM »
Odds are, it will have a stall converter.
I'll see if a link is on this computer for you.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/selecting_right_torque_converter/

Also, with a C-6 you likely had mods done to your trans tunnel. Big tranny !

You say the diff is "locked". As in a normal traction loc Ford ? Or has a spool ?

Will be interesting to see what all the car has in the end.

351C should do better than high 12s. Maybe not hooking up ?

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 12:27:37 AM »
duhhh. I knew about the line lock, but for some reason i never though to apply it to all 4 wheels. I mostly see guys use it strictly on the front for burn outs. Thanks for the responses guys  ;D

Quote
Odds are, it will have a stall converter.
I'll see if a link is on this computer for you.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/selecting_right_torque_converter/

Ooooo good link. Not sure I entirely understand how it helps launch the vehicle. So would I just have the car in first and then just mash the gas?

Like you, the quarter mile time concerns me a little bit. I also expected it to be higher, not that it's a huge deal for me though. That's why I'm looking into how the car would be launched. I know that the car doesn't have line locks. It does have a really hard time hooking up too, or so i've been told. Which makes a lot of sense to me. There isn't a whole lot of weight over the rear tires. I also haven't a slightest clue how built or how stock the motor is either.

I drove the thing for about 2 miles. It was too snowy and i knew too little about the vehicle to feel safe driving it home. I imagine it doesn't have the nicest freeway manners. So I drove it around the block when I got it home and off the trailer. That's about it.

Thanks for the timely responses guys! A nice group here  8)

 

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 12:32:36 AM »
Oh, I have dubbed her Pinelope by the way.

Probably not the most clever name, but I like it.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 07:38:59 AM »
I've (and could be wrong, so grain of salt here) always thought of torque converter stall thusly:

I think of it as a clutch, since once it reaches stall speed, it locks (as it were) into a 1:1 power transfer (theoretically, but at the end of the day, it is a fluid coupling), like a clutch would when engaged.

If your powerband starts at say, 3000 rpm, then you would want to launch your car at roughly that rpm, so that full power is applied as soon as possible off the line. A high stall tc accomplishes that via slippage until that point (esp when combined with a line lock or trans brake), which is why high stall converters zoop in stop and go traffic (sluggish from idle-stall speed). They also make more heat than a low stall converter, so a cooler is a must.

Again, this is my understanding of the concept, and may or may not be spot on. Ymmv, not responsible for transmission component failure, etc. lol :)

Offline racer99

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 10:26:17 AM »
A stall convertor will not slip alot in normal driving.
I have a 9 in. convertor that goes 4200 on the footbrake
and 4900 on the brake.

Normal street driving it takes about 150-200 more rpm to
get the car moving over a stock convertor.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 10:36:00 AM »
Here is the tricky part of stall converters. If you intend to drive your car on trips or daily use at sustained highway speeds you are gonna want a stall speed below your cruise RPM. If you go 65 mph & turn 2750 rpm then a 2500 max stall is all you want or it will slip at highway speeds & build unwanted heat & wear things out prematurely.
 
This is why it's near impossible to run monster cams in daily drivers with automatic trannies unless it's equipped with a lock up converter. I ran a 5500 stall in my Duster with a .657 lift roller cam & 4.56 gears. I had roughly 1000 rpm worth of slippage when I was driving to cruise nites & keeping the engine under 4K rpm. You could feel it when you blip the throttle in gear.
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Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2013, 12:34:38 PM »
Quote
You say the diff is "locked". As in a normal traction loc Ford ? Or has a spool ?

Unfortunately, I don't know what that means. Here was my test: As I was leaving my storage facility the pinto was on jack stands. So i put the car in neutral and moved one of the rear tires with my hand and saw that the other rear moved as well. Also from the way the car handled turning around with the wheel fully locked it certainly seemed like the rear axle was locked.

Thanks for all the stall convertor info guys :)

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2013, 05:46:30 PM »
I found that Pintos are so light on the back a locker can act like it has a spool , because there is not enough weight/traction to make the clutchs slip.
Lockers will slip. Spools do not.

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 12:29:28 AM »
Purchased a stock front valence on Ebay. Not sure if i'm going to use it or fab up something from scratch. We'll see!

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 01:10:27 AM »
Does anyone know a good pinto part source? I'm looking for a good condition rear bumper for my pinto that is not meant to have the bumper guards. All the ones i've found so far have the holes for the guards.

Offline dga57

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 01:34:24 AM »
Your best bet is probably Fred Morgan... he's on the site here.  Check him out for any Pinto parts you might need.
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2013, 12:34:05 AM »
Quote
Your best bet is probably Fred Morgan... he's on the site here.  Check him out for any Pinto parts you might need.
Dwayne

Thanks for the heads up! Unfortunately he didn't have one :(

Evidently that bumper is pretty rare (via a pinto parts guy in SE michigan I called).

My father is going to look at a hood for me tomorrow! Fingers crossed!

Can anyone point me in the right direction to find a picture of a relatively stock looking gloss black pinto? I can't find one on google. Thanks!

Offline Reeves1

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2013, 05:05:14 AM »



If you want to see it bigger, right click & "save as". Should show up bigger on your computer ?

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2013, 02:20:12 PM »
interesting... Thanks!

Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2013, 02:24:47 AM »
So this is the kind of color I'm going for. I have 3 more weeks of school and then I get a week off for spring break; during which I will be visiting my parents and doing some sort of work on the pinto. I'm hoping it's nice enough outside to do a good chunk of the body work. I plan on priming the vehicle myself before sending it to paint, but I would be surprised if it's warm enough for anything to stick. We'll see!

Color Inspiration (beautiful car by the way):




Offline frostedflakejake

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Re: 1972 Runabout w/ 351 Cleveland
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »
Can i run 8" wide wheels in the back without spacers?
How wide can I run in the front?