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Offline 79prostreet

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cut radiator support help
« on: April 13, 2014, 07:21:48 PM »
I thought I would post some pic's of how I cut my radiator support and put it back in so I can still use the hood latch and grill mounting points. It's not to hard if you have a grinder, drill and a welder. Bud
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 10:42:53 PM »
You planning to pull both front wheels on launch, I would guess, from the motor pics?

You're going to 'test' it and then weld to replace the bolts once you pre-load?

Otherwise, add more bolts. At least. :) lol

Other than that, beautiful, seriously. Just bookmarked it as an idea. :)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 07:44:20 AM »
That came out nice, think I would add another bolt on each side though..
Art
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Offline amc49

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 02:45:32 PM »
Yes, need at least two bolts each side or it can twist. The unibody actually derives a bit of support from that member, it helps keep the front in a box shape. I would probably go even a bit further and put plates across the front to tie down in that plane as well-that way the small welded in pieces not overstressed to crack out around the bolts.

I did that same trick on Tempos at the rear cross-structure above and under the back seats LOL. It allowed me to put 8 foot long lumber directly in the car and 100% contained with trunk lid closed. When done I simply bolted the sub-structure back in and threw down the seat. Maybe 3-4 minutes. I've never had a pickup and every time I ever wanted to buy one, the overriding idea was gas mileage, I do not use the PU enough to justify the loss in mileage. So back to 4dr. cars at every purchase. You should see the looks I got at the Home Depot when someone walked up while I was loading. Priceless. I had guys thinking they were seeing things.

We also did the same idea to AMX race cars since the under engine cross member attached to frame and lower LCAs and a b-tch to pull oil pans. Much more substantial though, it had to be bulletproof. Pans yanked in 10 minutes after that mod.

Offline 79prostreet

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 07:25:11 PM »
One of the problems with 2 bolts is room, I'm thinking between the hood latch assembly and my front roll bar additions along with a bar that will run across from one side to the other above the water pump area it should be ridged enough. Also the motor is solid mounted with mid plate. sound good?  Bud
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Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 07:27:36 PM »
Nice Build!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2014, 10:55:32 PM »
Yes a bar would help, but if it was me I would make a front motor plate. But why couldn't you put a bolt right under the top bolt??..
Art
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 09:19:03 AM »
Yes a bar would help, but if it was me I would make a front motor plate. But why couldn't you put a bolt right under the top bolt??..
   One thing your missing is there is no inter fender panels at all. This is where most of the support comes from to brace the core support. With a full cage plus the cage comes through the firewall and braces the sub frame rails, the only thing the core support does is mount the radiator. If it was my car I would run a removable cage bar across from one side to the other like "Mashcars" have in front of the motor. Just remember that this car is a street driven stock car and as such, the core support has very little to do, and could be removed all together. 
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 10:00:54 AM »
Good point, I did miss that..
Art
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Offline amc49

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 08:52:48 PM »
Man too much parallel in there for me, the lower added pipe almost parallel with the top runner to radiator, can't really tell from pic supplied though. The second added vertical brace is too close to same angle as the other longer one also. No triangulation there at all and weight with no strength. The downleg coming from firewall is too small OD too, what wall thickness there and what type tubing?

Yes, you don't have to have the radiator support or that part of the box, but what you replace it with must be very stout. Unibody convolutes angle changes literally everywhere, that is what gives it such strength with still being light. The angles all interfere with each other at crash time, parallel pipes all fold when only one does, the one folding takes them all down. But if they all attack at different angles then the stress must break or bend them all individually. A lot harder to do.

I could be full of it of course and not trying to slam the work. you just get an eye for what works well after looking at a 1000 different race cars.

Offline 79prostreet

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 09:12:38 PM »
amc49, I fully understand what you are saying, I do plan to add angle bars when I get to a place when I know I have room(10# in a5#area). The tubes are 1 1/4 dom 1/8'' wall.  The thin bar are fender mount.
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Offline amc49

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 07:31:00 PM »
Too small, the tubing needs to be bigger OD. Hope it's chromoly. The point was, you don't run the tubing parallel to the fender mount bars, you drop down (and swing in as well to compound multiple angles) to triangulate, any support added does not parallel any of that either. Different angle provides much more strength.

Yours of course and not trying to tell you what to do but you take risk once you do this on your own. We knew a guy who did his own and substandard materials and application to make a roll cage chassied car that didn't look bad at all but a combination of multiple errors there and it began when an engine exploded, the pieces fired sideways to cut the brake and fuel lines (inboard and illegal install there) and took out parts of chassis he welded up. WAY too easy. The car then caught fire at over 100 mph and flames entered the cabin through holes punched in firewall, he ended up bailing physically out of the car at around estimated 70-80 mph and clothes on fire. Probably good thing too, the car literally came apart at his welding when it then impacted concrete guardrail after he bailed. Thin wall steel that bent and cracked easily.

We had worked on it a time or two at the shop, he got the third degree about the lacking throttle return he had on tunnel ram, he swore he'd fix it. Later (before the above) he was involved in a wreck when he did a burnout where he stored car at storage facility and the throttles both stuck WFO. He lost it, car peeled through three storage buildings all unoccupied luckily and then finally plowed into a concrete retaining wall, the next thing was out on open freeway crossing at ninety degree angle. Lucky not killed then either. He survived both but smartly quit drag racing.

Not saying you at all, but once you cross the line to where YOU become the engineer, just like him you must look at EVERYTHING six times, then if it seems OK look again. Easy to forget lives can be on the line while having all the fun.

One day may tell you how we were involved in killing a guy by the same lacking of attention to details....... .............. ..not proud of it.

Offline 79prostreet

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 08:35:01 PM »
amc49, I think if you go to my gallery you will get a better view of those bars. the rest of the cage is 1 3/4 and welded by a certified welder, we thought just to help make the front more ridged we would add those front bars. I am thankful for an extra set of eyes and opinions to help me with my build, I do want to build it right the first time. Can't build it to safe! Bud
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Offline amc49

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 08:30:05 PM »
It does look better from different angles. Sorry about the scare there.

Offline 79prostreet

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 07:51:55 AM »
Found a little more time to work on the hot rod,made support bar and was able to mount thermostat housing to it.  Now need to build upper head/ radiator lines. Bud
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Offline 79prostreet

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Re: cut radiator support help
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2014, 07:24:38 AM »
Just add water! all water lines are done, oil lines are done,fuel system complete and the list gets shorter.
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