PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => Pinto FAQ => Topic started by: 77turbopinto on September 22, 2005, 07:23:00 PM
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Here are a bunch of my posts from a bunch of threads so it might not read very well, but I will try to clean it up and update the information when I can.
I will be happy to answer any questions I can on this topic, but PLEASE read the thread and the links before asking. I don't want to sound rude, but get get LOTS of P.M.s and emails looking for general information that is clearly posted here. If you need more detail please reply to this thread so that we can share the information. I will add to this post as I feel the need. All other turbo-pinto builders/owners, please add your insight too. Thank you for your cooperation.
WARNING: It is VERY easy to fry the ECU and BOTH HARNESSES if you hook things up wrong.
That being said, it is VERY easy to do correctly too.
Putting a turbo on the stock 2.3 is NOT a good idea if you go over 3 to 5 pounds of boost. The T/C-SVO 2.3T's are made to handle boost, the stock N/A engines WILL NOT last long even with "stock" boost levels for the EFI turbo cars. Unless you plan to build an engine from the ground up, a donor car is cheaper, this is why I (we) call this a "swap." 2.3T engines are made with a compression ratio (C/R) about 8.2 to 1 (ish), VS 9.5 to 1 (ish). The turbo (boost pressure) does NOT CHANGE the C/R of the engine, EVER (I will not argue this, if you don't belive it, that's fine; you are just wrong).
There are a bunch of parts needed for this swap as well. I hope to post some part #'s and hardware lists soon as well. (fuel pump/filter, air filter, nuts, bolts......)
The best advice I can give to anyone attempting this is to get the wire diagrams from your donor (a running donor car is best, that way you are not chasing problems that were there to start with) and the one from your pinto, put them next to each other and compare. With the different cars, years, and options of potential donors, that is the best way to work on the wiring. There are only a few wires from each harness that need to be connected to each other, most are just grounds and power. This swap takes some mechanical skill, and is not a direct "bolt in" for ALL of the parts, and just bolting on the turbo items to a regular 2.3 is a "no-no" if you are looking for longevity or higher boost levels (over 5psi).
I have never had one, but I have been told that turbos and carbs just don't mix well. I will not answer questions about them, sorry.
Donor info:
Car/Tranny/Year/Computer/Injectors/Intercooler/Turbo/VAM
GT Turbo/T5/83-84/TA/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
Capri RS Turbo/T5/83-84/TA/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
SVO/T5/84/ZBA/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/84/TE/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85-85/TJ/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85/PJ/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85.5-86/PE 35/Yes/T3 .48 A/R/Big
TC/T5/83-86/PC1/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
TC/T5/84/TF or TC/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
TC/C3/85-86/PK1/35/No/T3 .63 A/R/small
TC/T5/87/LA2/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/T5/88/LA3/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/A4LD/87-88/LB3/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/A4LD/87-88/8UA/35/Yes/IHI/Big
XR4Ti/C3/early 85/PK/35/No/T3 .63 A/R/small
XR4Ti/C3/85-89/PK1/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small
XR4Ti/T9/85-89/PF2/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small
XR4Ti/T9/85-89/PF3/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small
Bill
(This post last updated 8 APR 07)
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Some PRE 1974 info.
I never attempted this swap in a PRE-74, but IF I were to do it, I would 'locate' the tranny before doing anything. By that, I mean making and installing a bracket or fixture to make sure I KNOW where it is supposed to be (side to side and up-down) when remove the engine. Also, the fixture or bracket will need to be temporarily removed in order to remove the stock engine. Once the stock engine is out I would install the 2.3 (no waterpump or bolt-on items) to the tranny and re-set my fixture. Then I would modify the factory engine mount to frame brackets and bolt or weld them to the car. During all this the engine will still need to be supported semi-independently, even with the fixture mentioned. I would also keep in mind that I MIGHT want to lower the engine to get hood room BUT I would still do what I mentioned here and THEN do my drop. I don't know of any other issues that might arise, but there might be a few.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9816.msg60988.html#msg60988
Bill
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I am planning on doing this swap in my '74 Runabout. I have an '88 t/c donor. Will the stock c-4 bolt up to the motor? Are there connections for the trans that may give me trouble? Other than upgrading the brakes, are there other things I should upgrade?
Also, between the car and the motor, are there any parts you would suggest I replace just as normal wear items?
Any help is always greatly appreciated.
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That should all bolt up. Depending on how well the donor was running, you might want to freshen it up. The bottom ends are very durable, but they are prone to head gaskets if the boost has been turned up. I did nothing to mine (170k) other than a good tune up, oil pump, water pump, time belt, front and rear seals, and assorted gaskets and hoses.
Unless you never use the extra power, you WILL need to replace the rear (if it is not an 8"). The 6.75" can't hold up to 85hp, I know, the one in our 78 is shot. The 8'" rear has a snout that is a bit longer, I have installed them in three stock pintos without any issues. I assume the pintos that came with those rears have a .5" to .75" shorter driveshaft. I am now working on the t5 install but the t5 tranny is longer than a stock pinto unit so I am now looking at a "custom" driveshaft from a fox body.
Are you talking about the comp. connections to the tranny? My donor was a stick, you might need to change and re-pin the comp. if you donor is an auto. That is a might, as all it might do is trigger a CEL that won't be hooked up anyway.
Bill
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Yes, I meant the computer connections to the trannie.
My donor if an Automatic with the 8UA computer, a friend who owns a Merkur gave me an LA3 computer and a Superchips module that he had picked up and wasn't using.
I am definately looking into the 8" rear end.
Thank you for your advice, I'm sure I will be asking for more the further I get into the project.
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If you use the harness out of a Merkur XR4Ti... its a lot easier to wire... as the Merkur wasnt originally intended to have the 2.3T... it is wired in as a engine only harness.
Jim
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That is NOT exactly true.
The XR4TI was wired in Germany.
The 2.3 was wired in Canada.
That is why it has a stand alone harness for the EFI.
From Pintony
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That is NOT exactly true.
The XR4TI was wired in Germany.
The 2.3 was wired in Canada.
That is why it has a stand alone harness for the EFI.
From Pintony
Well... the 2.3 Lima wasnt intended to go into the Ford Sierra...
Same thing.
Jim
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HOW ABOUT TRYING A T5 THEY WORK GREAT AND EASY TO INSTALL
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Here are a few pics. Please note the manual kick down, not pretty, but it works great. This pic was taken before I put a 45* elbow the vac port. The fitting was very close to the hood.
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More. It is hard to see, but I dropped the "floor" in the tranny mount by 5/16" to match the engine mount brackets.
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More.
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Good job Bill, We thanks you for taking the time to complete this article in the FAQ area. You are an asset to this board!
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Thank you.
I plan to get more pics on here when I can.
Bill
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I've been working on this swap on a 77 coupe, and if you don't mind doing a Little trimming on the sheetmetal up by the sore support, you can use the stock t/c air box, filter and all. I went to a wrecking yard, and found a rubber intake hose off a 88 Mazda 626 to connect it to the turbo intake. Looks very stock and should work well. Just thought I would share. If I ever get a digital camera, I will post photos. Jim
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Please note that I posted this from information in other threads, and modified it when I gathered new info so it might not 'read' that well.
Driveshaft info:
When swapped into a car that came with a 6.75” rear, the 8" rear pushes the stock pinto driveshaft forward about 1" or so; I would assume that Ford put a shorter shaft on them. I have never had any issues with 8" rears and stock driveshafts for the 6.75" rear, but the t-5 is longer than the stock pinto trannys (auto).
Pintos have different length driveshafts for different trannys and rears. I had a set of wagon leafs and the pins were the same distance from the front mounts, so I know they have the same wheelbase.
A driveshaft from a stock fox body will fit a T-5 to 8” rear IF the engine and tranny are in the STOCK LOCATION. Be aware that when I searched I found that the Fox body car can have up to 7 different shafts, depending. Be sure you have the correct length, year and yoke.
I found the 77 Pinto m/t has a shaft about 43" weld to weld, and the a/t ones are about 44". Add 2" on either side to get on-center of the u-joints. The 8" rear pushes the shaft forward about 7/8" and the t-5 is about 1.75" longer than the stock c3. A shaft about 41" to 41.5" weld to weld (45"-45.5" at the u-joints) should be fine. Of all the ones I listed above, the V8 m/t one is the shortest at about 41.5" at the welds, but has the bigger u-joints DEPENDING on what year; the 86 and older ones take the same, front and rear as the Pinto FRONT. The Pinto rear takes a u-joint with two different size caps.
I still had the driveshaft from my 79 2.3 4spd racecar. I put the a/t and the m/t shafts for 6.75" rear Pintos side by side. The a/t one is just about 1" longer. The 8" rear pushes it forward a little less than that, but I used the m/t one in the orange a/t car (last night) when I installed the 8" rear.
The following information is based on the 77/78/79 parts I have, or the swaps I have DONE:
C3 - 6.75" 48" on-center of u-joints
4spd - 6.75" 47" on-center of u-joints
C3 - 8" 47" on-center of u-joints
C4 - 8" OR T-5 - 8" 45.5" on-center of u-joints
I never did one myself, but with the information I have I would assume that for a 4spd - 8" a 46"-46.5" (on-center of u-joints) would be needed.
The C4 trannys are longer than the C3's and the 4spds. I had a driveshaft shaft that was marked "2.0 Pinto" that was 45.5" O/C. If that was correct, it was most likely from a C4 - 8".
The end caps on the Pinto unit that u-bolt to the rear have a BIGGER diameter than the ones that are in the yoke, that is why they are different, where the fox ones are both the same size (but different sizes depending what year).
I installed the Pinto rear u-joint on the early fox driveshaft with no problems.
BTW: The EARLY fox u-joint will 'bolt' to the Pinto pinion, BUT the u-bolts will not clamp the u-joint properly to the rear axle. It will pinch, and over time (or abuse) cause it to fail. 2 of the 4 Pinto rear caps are 1.125" X 3.218" (overall width) that bolt to the rear yoke. IIRC, the other two are the same as the 4 on the front joint: 1.063” X 3.218”. The later Fox body ones are like 3.5" wide.
An AreoStar rear driveshaft from a 94-97 WITH AWD is also 45.5” O/C and Ford made some of them in ALUMINUM. It has the same u-joints as the early Fox (pre 87) and Pinto fronts, 1.063" X 3.218" wide, both sides front and rear. I have one of these in my yellow car and I will be putting one in the orange car when I do the C4 swap.
The yoke for a C3 will fit the PINTO 4spd. The slip yoke for a C4 and a T-5 are the same.
Also, after some measuring I did notice that yokes can be different lengths, from about 3.5" to 5", even if they fit the same trannys.
NAPA part #372 u-joint has the correct caps and width to install on the later Fox driveshafts and still connect to the 8". IIRC: You might have to swap the Pinto caps to it but they do fit (I did a BUNCH of measuring).
The only thing I have needed to do is swap the caps on the u-joint and use the same driveshaft.
I would like to state this fact again: The 8" rear yoke (where the u-joint bolts) is made for a cap that is 1.25". The fox body with the u-joints that are 3.218" wide have cap diameters of 1.063" on all the caps. The Pinto and 60's Mustang joints (maybe others too) have two caps at 1.063 and two that are 1.25". A 1.063" cap will bolt in, but is not correct
The 1980 Pintos call for a different part # rear joint, but I don't know why.
Bill
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77turbopinto mentioned a brake upgrade. What do you suggest as an upgrade?
I was looking at replacing rotors, drums, wheel cylinders, calipers, pads, and shoes with Raybestos PG Plus stock replacement size. Will this be okay, or do I have to go more extreme?
I was also planning to replace all the brake lines with stainless steel lines, and the necessary hose sections with stainless braided hoses both for appearance and durability (mostly durability).
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As mentioned in my first post, I have the 11" granada rotors up front. When I installed the 68 stang 8" rear, I used the 10" (I think) drums. I still have to give a lot of pedal "input", but it will stop now.
IMO: Anything better than the cheap stock pads and shoes should be done as a minimum. My car with manual brakes just did not give me the confidence I wanted, even before the swap.
Bill
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In the last few weeks I have installed a front mounted inter-cooler (FMIC), LA2 computer, and big VAM (with the 86 T/C t-3 turbo I had in it).
WELL WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT. If you are doing, want to do, or have done this swap and NOT used these items, you are missing something.
The 86 T/C harness is MUCH easier to work with for swaps (XR4TI is even better) than the 87, but the computers are inferier.
Please remember that these items should be intalled as a 'package' with brown top injecters (my car had them before). You can do the FMIC, BUT the computers that are not set-up for them will NOT like them (ask me how I know). Also, the LA2 or LA3 will need the big VAM, brown top injectors, and I/C to run well. You can get an adustable FPR without switching to the brown tops, but not as good.
I still plan to do a cam, porting and timing experimentatio n too; I will post any results.
Now I can't wait until this winter to rip all this stuff back out of the car, detail everything, and paint the car.
Bill
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What is I/C?
BTW, Currently gathering the parts to do a turbo Merkur to Pinto swap.
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What is I/C?
BTW, Currently gathering the parts to do a turbo Merkur to Pinto swap.
I/C = inter-cooler
FMIC = front mounted inter cooler
Bill
Added: When you compress air (like a turbo does) it heats the air. An inter-cooler will reduce the temp. of the air going into the turbocharged engine; this gets more power from the same pressure. I have seen I/C's installed on N/A engines but it is a WASTE (and funny).
More:
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5657.msg34066;topicseen#msg34066
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The current direction we are going is '88 T/C motor with the Big VAM, Brown Top injectors, and IHI Turbo.
We are adding the Front Mount InterCooler, LA3 Computer, and a port and polish job on the heads. We are using upgraded quality, stock-size brake replacement parts, and an 8-inch rear out of a '76? Mustang II. Basic tune up items such as air cleaner, spark plugs, plug wires, etc. are being replaced with performance quality items.
It's all about research research research.
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...IHI Turbo...
The T-3 has the wastegate tucked under the compressor kind of next to the block, IHI has the wastegate on the 'other' side away from the block. This looks like it will have some clearance issues. When you get that installed I would like if you would post some pics.; I am planning on using the IHI in Connie's car and I would like to know how it goes.
Thanks,
Bill
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It's going to be at least a month before we'll be ready to put the motor in, probably two. For total clearance of the turbo we were already expecting to make a change to the wheel well as it was originally designed to put the battery on (we are moving that to under the hatch).
We will be taking all sorts of pictures as we go, and I was already planning on putting them here for all to see.
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More pics and info:
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=1368.0
Bill
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I have put the 87 TC motor in my Wagon with an IHI....clearan ce problems you better believe. So I'm going with an External Waste Gate (on the header) no problem then. I have an FMIC on my old wagon and on my new one I plan on going with a much larger one. My plans are a T3/T4 Hybrid, NPR Large FMIC, BOV (Blow Off Valve)or BPV (By Pass Valve I have a BPV now), basically I've learned with my firt project car. I'll post a link here (First Project Cruising Wagon, Second Project Deluxe Wagon) http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/?
My second one is going to be Much Faster and Much More Refined than my first!
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Do you have a photo of the IHI in the car?
Bill
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Well I don't have a pic with the Motor in the car BUT I have a pic from just before I scrapped the car. In the miidle of the inner fender you can see a hole in a Triagular shape that was the whole that I cut just to make clearence for the WG.
The pic is on my photobucket site. It's the first pic and the name of the pic is 'Inner_Fender.j pg'.
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/?
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Thanks. It is kind of what I thought. I will be getting a custom EM for her car that will re-locate the turbo forward about .75" to 1.0" (depending on the oil return).
Here are some more of my pic's. These are from my small VAM, PC1, no I/C days. I had them posted elsewhere, but I thought they would be better here.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090
Bill
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Here is one more.
This is one of the upper intake that is going into Connie's Pinto. It has been modified to make it lower. I removed .5" out of it just above the lower flange. This should provide the clearence needed to shut the hood on the car. I might have to grind a little off the bottom t/b, and I will have to use gasket maker and a "tab" in the front to take up some of the extra space. My turbo car has no leaks with the same goop.
Bill
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More heater box info.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5906.0
Bill
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Here are some computer related links.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5959.0
http://www.forced4.com/la3swap.html
http://www.svo1fast4.com/la3.html
I will find and post as many as I can.
Bill
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I don't know why some of the links no longer work, sorry.
Anyway, I have recently done some work on my tan car and thought I would share some info.
When I first did the swap I only had the 86 T/C parts to work with, but a few years and cars later, I have some options. When I did the swap I used a modified (by me) '86 fuel rail with the lines going out the left side, and it required me to install metal (brake) lines up the left fender wall from the stock lines to get to the rail. When I did Connie's car, I used the '87/88 rail that has the short plastic lines that go DOWN off the rear. I found the 87/88's to be much easier to hook up to the stock lines (still with modifications), not to mention that the fuel filter hooks right to the feed line saving: line/connector/clamps/time. I swapped out the '86 rail with the later one and it now makes R/R very easy for the filter and the rail/injectors too. IMHO: This also makes for a 'cleaner' looking install. I did this over the last couple of days, a little each day (no time), and the car back running.
BTW: I never knew there was a limit on posts of 10,000. characters until today when I added a few words to my first post in this thread.
Bill
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YOU COULD USE A BOB CAT HOOD AND GRILL
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YOU COULD USE A BOB CAT HOOD AND GRILL
Is this something that you did? Did you need to make any modifications? Photos?
I have studied my 78 Bobcat hood and I know it has a different shape, but the EFI intake is so far back I am not sure what the clearence would be. Just by where my mine is in my tan car, I know that it would allow a custom and/or rotated upper to fit better.
Bill
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I agree but I have alot of questions and I would probably hog up a couple of pages just asking. 1 Is there a manual out there that covers this swap? Like the V8 one I just bought.Ok ... 2 I need to know if the motor is a direct bolt up in a 72, 3 Why does the PCM need to be repinned,where do I find out that info, 4 will my bell housing bolt up to the 2.3 turbo motor(2.0 c4) , 5 how did you plumb your fuel tank and fuel lines with the return line, 6 what torque converter stall speed should I use, 7 where did you put the pcm relay, 8 where did you put the fuel pump relay,how were they wired in, 9 did you use the stock radiator and if not which one did you use, 10 whats the best spot for an intercooler,what intercooler did you use...ect ect ect?
1) Not that I know of. I have mentioned before that I was going to do one, but with all the different year parts and combonations, I did not feel that I could do it to my satifaction. I purchased that "V8" swap book and put it in the trash the day I got it.
2) With 'stepped' dowel pins it will go right in; the bolt patterns are the same. You COULD spend $200. to $300.+ on the C4/2.3 bell, or $25. on the pins. You will need a 2.3/C4 flexplate if you keep the C4. Keep in mind that a 'Pinto C4' is a light duty C4 (but still better than a C3).
3) It does not, DEPENDING on the combo you plan to use.
4) See #2.
5) I mentioned it in this thread.
6) I can't help you there other than to tell you when I first did this swap I had the stock C3 with the stock converter in it and it was fine. Connie's car has the stock one as well; no issues.
7) I mentioned it in this thread.
8) Under the dash. I used 86 T/C harnesses that pull the pump's power from the ECU.
9) I mentioned in this thread that I used a Mustang II V8 one, but I converted to a 2.3 WITH A/C one; Connie's car has the same.
10) Front mount, Cheap ebay one.
Bill
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1st photo:
I mentioned in my first post that I used an A/C heater box with the evap. removed to relocate the blower motor. I posted a photo of the heat shield installed over the large hole left behind, but not one of behind the shield. After sealing the hole in the box, I used a section soft foam, then a thin section of a dense closed cell foam. It was black until I painted the engine bay, but it will be hidden so I did not care. Some people out there with A/C cars might notice the 2 extra bolts sticking through; The non-A/C cars have the 4 around that hole, the A/C cars only have two there. I needed to plug the holes AND install a heat shield, so I installed those two just through the firewall. All 4 have nuts on them in the photo, THEN washers; this gives me about .5" between the firewall and the shield. I have hosed it down to test, but have had no water in the car. BTW: I installed the shield to protect the foam from heat and other forms of damage.
2nd photo:
I also talked about installing a FMIC. I did not need to trim the stone deflector, but the hood latch brace that goes to the bottom of the radiator support was in the way. Some people just remove the brace, but it leaves the latch bracket very unstable only being attached to the top of the radiator support. I made a new brace, but mine mounts THROUGH the stone deflector instead of behind it. This helps keep the hood from vibrating and more secure without the use of pins, and secures the middle of the stone defletor. Also, the upper part of my brace mounts the top of the I/C.
Bill
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I located a new T-Bird T/C Donor car; I was not really looking for one, but when opportunity knocks.....
Now, let me start by saying that I respect the fans and owners of other cars, and I do NOT see all Turbo Coupes as 'donors'. I feel that if a car is in good shape or restorable it should not be just a "donor". The salty north does a job on most cars and the T/C's I have found are no exception. I was hoping that this new (to me) T/C was street-able, but it is way past the point of no return. Rust and 'critters' have erased all doubt as to the fate of this car. I have never seen a car with as much mouse related damage, EVER, and I can watch the right front fender MOVE when I turn the steering wheel as the strut (shock) tower is FULLY disconnected from the uni-body frame and is only part way hanging on to the inner fender. There are no body panels worth saving, no brakes, no floors, and the interior was half-way gutted already and what is there is junk.
What I am gong to do is to post some photos and give some details as I remove the harness and engine management items. This might help save some time for those with their donors, or at the junk yard. I am sorry to say that I started gutting the car before I thought of doing this, so the interior shots will be all "AFTER's" (I think most people will know what it looks like 'before' anyway).
This car is an 86. Many people reccamend using a engine harness from a Merkur as it is more of a 'stand-alone', but I have done 2 installs with the 86 T/C harness and it is not bad to work with, not to mention it is easier to find and MUCH cheaper. The 87/88 T/C engine harnesses are much more complicated and have non engine wiring mixed in as well as some of the engine harness mixed with non engine wires.
Please ask questions if you need more info or better photos.
BTW: The photos in THIS post are all BEFORE photos showing the condition of the car when I got it.
Bill
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Sorry for not having a 'before' photo.
The view of the passenger side dash is what I did with removing ONE bolt and the use of a hammer and my hands. I removed all the wire bundle clips as well. It looks like a BIG mess, but there are not that many wires that you need.
I placed a section of blue masking tape next to some of the items in the photos names. The items I mention are the ones you need for the swap and where they are.
The fuel pump inertia switch is located in the trunk, above and slightly forward of the right inner wheel house. The first photo is looking at where it bolts, the second is with the camera between the q-panel and the trunk support. There is a relay there too. The wires that lead to is come from the back seat area and the pump wires head to the gas tank from there. I will get another photo of where it goes out to the tank. You could cut them near the switch and run your own too.
I show the back seat and the inner trim panel removed and the harness pulled up out of all the clips. You only need the wires to the inertia switch and pump.
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The sill plate is removed and the carpet cut around the seat belt anchor. Pull up the carpet and release the clips and covers holding the wires.
The ECU is clipped into the right kick panel. Once it and the wires around it are unclipped, all of them will fall out. The engine harness goes through the firewall just above the blower impeller. Please note that a hammer will let you see the impeller better. You will need to unbolt the ECU from the harness, disconnect the TWO ground wires at the lower right kick area. When you are ready to feed the harness through the firewall and into the engine bay, be sure to install some duct tape around the opening to prevent any wires being cut; that hole has SHARP EDGES!.
The fuel pump wires have a 3 wire connection near the ECU connection; unplug it and you can feed it out the back into the trunk to the inertia switch and relay. The fuel pump GROUND is located just in front of the right front seat; rip the carpet in to gain access.
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More...
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Under the hood:
All items are identified by the photo title and should be easy to figure out their locations. These photos show the items that are NOT on the engine itself. There are many sensors on the engine that need to be unplugged before removal. With one exception, all of the connectors will only fit to where they need to go. The one, or should I say two, that can be interchanged are for the injectors and those connectors are NEAR the IAC; MARK THEM CAREFULLY.
Slide the harness into the engine bay and Carefully remove and disconnect all the wires from the engine and lift the harness out of the engine bay. You will find wires that do not need to be reconnected to make the engine run.
The EGR relay is not NEEDED to make the car run, but for those that need or want to keep it hooked up, it is located behind the passenger side strut tower. Take careful note of where all the wires and hoses run.
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I will post more as I go.
Hope this helps....
Bill
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I tried to fix some of the photos; sorry about that.
It is amazing what mice can do to a car; the smell was intense. Rust did a job too. The rear susmention was not held in by much and the rear was leaking fluid where the tubes go into the carrier (scary).
Here are a few more photos.
Bill
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I hate mice.......... .... >:(
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Any tips on getting the high pressure, duck-bill clip EFI fuel hoses to mate up to the low pressure Pinto fuell lines?
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Any tips on getting the high pressure, duck-bill clip EFI fuel hoses to mate up to the low pressure Pinto fuell lines?
...I used the stock Pinto tank and lines.There is a return line restrictor inside the tank on some, if not all Pintos; I did not remove them from either car, but...
When using an inline pump, get it as low as you can. They don't like to pull the gas UP out of the stock tank. Use a large fuel filter made for a EFI car, and I used EFI hose and clamps. With some heat and a little grease, I was able to slide the EFI hose over the EFI connectors and brake/fuel line flaired ends.
....
Bill
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just curious as to how you install the bosch relay for the fuel pump and why. I dont have the wiring from the three wire plug up by the ecu to the pump and inertia switch from my 85 tc. Will any 85 - 88 ford tbird have the same wiring for the pumpo and inertioa switch. i was going to have my tank worked on as to put the splash tank and tc pump in the top of it, but as of tonigt i am the owner of a inline pump and filter. now all i need is WIRING HELP. HELP, Im tangled in these wires and cant get out. i still dont know where the gray plug hooked on the drivers side either. it has a couple wires from the ecu in it and two from down by the distributor
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just curious as to how you install the bosch relay for the fuel pump and why. I dont have the wiring from the three wire plug up by the ecu to the pump and inertia switch from my 85 tc. Will any 85 - 88 ford tbird have the same wiring for the pumpo and inertioa switch. i was going to have my tank worked on as to put the splash tank and tc pump in the top of it, but as of tonigt i am the owner of a inline pump and filter. now all i need is WIRING HELP. HELP, Im tangled in these wires and cant get out. i still dont know where the gray plug hooked on the drivers side either. it has a couple wires from the ecu in it and two from down by the distributor
The questions you are asking are a little vague. To help you, you need to say what parts you have and what you did to them.
Bill
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Okay, another couple of questions:
Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?
And what common mistakes cause people to accidentally burn up computers and harnesses?
BTW, I heard that the way to splice those duck-bill ends is to first soften up the plastic fuel line by boiling it in water for ten minutes or more. Will try it in the next few days and let you know back.
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Okay, another couple of questions:
Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?
And what common mistakes cause people to accidentally burn up computers and harnesses?
BTW, I heard that the way to splice those duck-bill ends is to first soften up the plastic fuel line by boiling it in water for ten minutes or more. Will try it in the next few days and let you know back.
What loose end?
Attempting to use the wrong harness/ECU combo, putting power to the wrong wire, not having the ground wires connected.
If you are splicing the factory plastic fuel line use connectors made for it; they will have directions. Yes, hot water is what mine said to use.
Bill
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Okay, another couple of questions:
Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?
Reading my notes pertaining to my LA3 computer, the signal return line has no loose wire end. It is the return line for nearly every sensor used (black w/ white tracer in my case). So my guess would be you must be missing one component such as the speed sensor or diagnostic port maybe??
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Hello ..as you may know I have my `80 turbo Bobcat swap back on track but I have been offline for quite the while. While reading on how you fit the engine into the bay without the need to cut a hole in the hood, I realized that I have neither the tools or expertice. So I`m wondering..thi nking aloud.. is it just 5/16 that needs taking off? b/c if it is..couldn't`t I find that much in trimming the lower intake where it bolts to the crossover and the actual top of the crossover? Would it adversely affect the motor? I`m not into racing..at least not until I find an 8" rear end. Anyways any input would be greatly appreciated... .TIA.
80 Bobcat...donor car `87 Merkurr
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Hello ..as you may know I have my `80 turbo Bobcat swap back on track but I have been offline for quite the while. While reading on how you fit the engine into the bay without the need to cut a hole in the hood, I realized that I have neither the tools or expertice. So I`m wondering..thi nking aloud.. is it just 5/16 that needs taking off? b/c if it is..couldn't`t I find that much in trimming the lower intake where it bolts to the crossover and the actual top of the crossover? Would it adversely affect the motor? I`m not into racing..at least not until I find an 8" rear end. Anyways any input would be greatly appreciated... .TIA.
80 Bobcat...donor car `87 Merkurr
*Please note that the 79/80 cars have a different style hood, and I have only done this swap with 77/78 Pintos. I have read where the only issue is with the hood's inner structure interfering with the T/B linkage, but I have NO direct experience with this. Also, I have seen a big difference in engine height between different Pintos of the same year/engine. All this needs to be looked at, and I reccamend doing massive amounts of measuring BEFORE the stock engine is removed.*
As I stated, when I first did my install, I lowered the engine that amount (5/16") AND had to grind off some of the upper and T/B, as well as put a 45* on the vac. fitting (and grind that too). With this I have never had a problem. Keep in mind that this only works with the 'later' upper; the early one won't work.
Your install might not need much room, but if you don't have a welder of your own, it would still be cheaper have work done on steel parts VS. Alum. I think there is not enough 'meat' on the flange area to safely remove much.
As far as the earlier Pintos: I don't know where else you can SAFELY remove the almost 3/4" (total) needed, and still have everything line up and not interfere with other parts (like the T/B and valve cover). With Connie's install I removed .5" from the (later) upper and lowered the engine about .25". Unless you cut/weld/grind something(s) to get that much, you will have to do something with the hood. IMHO: lowering the engine 1/4" to 5/16" is the easy way to go. I reccamend doing it with the FRAME brackets like I did later with my Bobcat; MUCH easier.
BTW: Were you going with a carb. before?
Bill
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Thanks Bill.. the info finalizes it..a hole and scoop must be put on.. well at least I know.. My original post was for the carrbed turbo but it quikly changed to the TBird or Merkurr turbo when everything was considered ..not very experienced in this and not really sure of what I`m doing...all tho the long delay was a combination of health,help and money I shouldn`t be too far away from driving my prized pony ;D.... thanks for asking tho.
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So how do you make these two meet? I wasted a hour and a half last night heating them up in boiling water and trying to squeeze them together over and over again until I gave up in frustration. I am guessing that there is a step or subtlety that I'm missing.
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So how do you make these two meet? I wasted a hour and a half last night heating them up in boiling water and trying to squeeze them together over and over again until I gave up in frustration. I am guessing that there is a step or subtlety that I'm missing.
What did the directions say?
When I posted the info on 'splicing' it was for 'splices', that looks like a 'repair' end fitting; you MIGHT need a special tool for that. WHEN I use the double end barb-type splice that is MADE for these lines the directions say to use hot water. When I gut a car I take as much line and as many fittings as I can, then SPLICE together what I need.
When I did my first swap I used the 86 T/C rail and eliminated all the plastic lines (first post of this thread).
I noticed that you posted this same question in a different/new thread as well; I will only be putting this info here.
Bill
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I don't know why some of the links no longer work, sorry.
...
Bill
The broken links have been bugging me for a while. Apparently, somewhere between the quoted message (December 2007) and the previous (October 2006), the site software was updated, it changed record formats and locations, but didn?t update internal links, so, in my search for information I found these:
Reply #1
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9816.msg60988.html#msg60988 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9816.msg60988.html#msg60988)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,9816 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,9816)
Reply #20
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5657.msg34066;topicseen#msg34066 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5657.msg34066;topicseen#msg34066)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5657 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5657)
Reply #24
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=1368.0 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=1368.0)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,1368. (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,1368.)0
Reply #28
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088;image (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088;image)
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083;image (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083;image)
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089;image (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089;image)
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090;image (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090;image)
Reply #30
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5906.0 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5906.0)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5906.0 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5906.0)
Reply #31
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5959.0 (http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5959.0)
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5959.0 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5959.0)
Mike
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I've been working on this swap on a 77 coupe, and if you don't mind doing a Little trimming on the sheetmetal up by the sore support, you can use the stock t/c air box, filter and all. I went to a wrecking yard, and found a rubber intake hose off a 88 Mazda 626 to connect it to the turbo intake. Looks very stock and should work well. Just thought I would share. If I ever get a digital camera, I will post photos. Jim
;) (http://"http://www.rctophobby.com") (http://"http://www.rctophobby.com/rc-helicopters/shop-by-brand/nine-eagles.html")