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Author Topic: Front disc Brakes (4 & 5 Lug)  (Read 48623 times)

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Offline turbopinto72

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Front disc Brakes (4 & 5 Lug)
« on: September 02, 2004, 09:15:33 PM »
Im starting a new topic that most of us have thought about at one time or another. What to do with the front brakes? There are options out there but I want to limit this to what has ( already) been done. There are two sub sections to this topic. Pre 1974 cars and post 1974 cars. As I understand it, there are a bunch of choices for 1974 and up cars and very little choices for 71-73 cars. Lets discuss both. We can talk about the popular choices, i.e. Wilwood, SSbrake,US brakes etc. and the factory type i.e. Granada etc. Rember, this ( should) be about what you HAVE done or ARE doing now, as apposed to what you heard.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline perce111

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2004, 12:25:20 AM »
I don't think there are a lot of choices for disc brakes if you want to keep the four lug wheel.
I have been looking for a larger brake based on the  stock four lug Mustang/Pinto rotor.
There seems to be no one willing to offer one of the street rod 11" kits based on the stock rotor.
If you want a 5 lug set up its no problem for the 74 up cars........I dom't

Hope everyone had a good holiday weekend.

Later

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2004, 10:03:21 AM »
Thanks for the reply. Based on the amount of responce to this post I will modify it to include ( Ideas ) of what might work on early cars both 4 and 5 lug.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2004, 10:14:45 AM »
 So, this is what I am thinking about. After looking at ALL ( or at least most) of the options available to the 71-73 cars, I am thinking about doing a Granada 5 lug rotor with Willwood 4 puck calipers and MAKING my own brackets. This will give me 11", 5 lug rotors and a good light weight caliper. I think you could do a stock 9" rotor and use an after market caliper for a 9" rotor and make an adapter. The problem with most caliper adapter's are that they are a plate, that mounts on the spindle. Depending on how thick the plate is AND if the rotor is any wider ( front to back) moves the whole assy. out board. This moves the wheel out and starts to mess with your wheel clearence to the fender. A bracket that bolts to the stock mounting position would help with this issue. Then, only the rotor would move the wheel out ( if any). Let me know your thoughts on the Granada rotor/ Willwood Idea.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2004, 12:38:43 PM »
Late model Pinto (74/80) front  brakes can be put onto a 71/73 Pinto two ways. The 74/80 calipers can be adapted to the 71/73 spindals with a little machine work. Or the entire unit (spindal/caliper/rotor) can be adapted by useing different ball joints/tie rod ends. Changing the entire unit is the best way. I've done both with better brakes both ways.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2004, 07:31:33 PM »
Thanks for the info Dick. I have purchased a pair of Granada rotors and will be starting the swap soon ( 1973 Pangra). As allways I will have a ton of pictures and all the measurments you will need.
Brad F
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2004, 06:45:01 PM »
 Ok, Ive got the Granada rotors on. Here are some pictures of the rotor swap with measurements. This first pic is of the stock 9", 4 lug 1973 rotor. The distance between the top A arm and the wheel mounting surface is 3 3/4 "
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2004, 06:46:24 PM »
This pic showes the stock unit and the distance between the top A arm and the rotor surface. This measurement is 2".
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2004, 06:48:36 PM »
 Next, the rotor was fitted with bearings and pre fitted on the spindle. It was determined that the dust shield, where it fits around the back side of the rotor, hits. This does not alow the rotor to slide all the way on. SO, off went the dust shield.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2004, 06:50:36 PM »
 Now, with the dust shield off the rotor was installed. I used the SAME berrings and rear seal out of my stock unit. Yes they do fit and are the same size.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2004, 06:51:44 PM »
Here is a view from the back side. You can see the factory mounting holes for the caliper, which I will use on the new calipers.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 06:54:15 PM »
Now comes the good part. I measured the same points as the factory unit to deturman if there is any difference in rotor off set. As you can see, there is NO DIFFERENCE. The same 3 3/4 " was measured from the A arm to the wheel mounting surface.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
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1973, Pangra
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2004, 06:55:17 PM »
Also the same measurement as stock at the rotor surface to A arm.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline HighHooder

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2004, 12:41:55 PM »
Okay, so here's the deal... I have a '72 1600cc trunkmodel.  It has disk brakes, and by the looks of everything they are ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT from the MANUFACTURER.  I'm talking even my brake pedal has the "Disk Brakes" emblem on it.  I'm the third owner, it has 167k original miles, this car is still running the original clutch (yes, it's slipping and the t/o bearing makes a bit of noise).  I can't see any modifications besides a poorly done re-upholstery job on the drivers seat.

so, I guess what I'm asking is "Didn't these cars come with a disk brake option?"... mine seems to have ??? (and if so, wouldn't this be available elsewhere as a 4-lug swap?)
Proud owner of a 1972 Ford Exploder

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2004, 12:51:12 PM »
Yes, there was a disk brake option from the factory. Im not sure what you mean by " availabe elsewhere as a 4-lug swap"  ???
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Offline HighHooder

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2004, 01:01:04 PM »
what I mean is that a Versaille or Granada swap makes for a 5-lug set up, as compared to the standard pinto 4-lug.  What other fords came with this same 4-lug disk brake set up?  It can't just be pintos.  I suppose if you live someplace where Cortinas are common you could rob them of their disk brakes...

 I dunno, maybe I'm just thinking "out loud", but there HAS to be other sources for 4-lug disk brakes to swap into a pinto.
Proud owner of a 1972 Ford Exploder

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2004, 01:08:43 PM »
 OIC, I know the Mustang II had 4 lug disc rotors that will work on a pinto spindle. It would stand to reason that a falcon might  ???, not sure though. The probblem is that even though the " Hot Rod" guys use M II/Pinto spindles on their cars, They like the 5 lug pattern for better wheel options. Every Hot Rod supplyer I have called wont even think about doing a 4 lug, larg Dia. rotor and caliper set up becouse as far as they are concerned there is no market for it.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline 73wagon

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2004, 01:58:27 PM »
 1. Why won't the later model rotors fit the early cars? I'm told all the bearings are the same. 2. Are the mounting points for early and late calipers the same? I know that the height of the spindle assembly is different but are the caliper mounting points different as well ?  Incidentally, Falcon, Mustang and Maverick 4 lugs are 4 1/2 bolt circle diameter like early Datsuns, Toyotas etc.

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2004, 09:04:37 PM »
I know that the 1979-1982 Mustang 4 cylinder models used 10" brake rotors, and I have seen some Pinto racers (B-Sedan) with those rotors and calipers, with an adapter to use the Mustang caliper on the Pinto steering knuckle. It takes some engineering and careful thought. Probably heat treating, etc. I know it will work, because I have seen it. It will even fit in a 13" wheel.  Some SCCA racers should be able to verify this.

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2004, 01:45:02 PM »
MP Brakes warns you will need 15" wheels with the Mustang II kit. I want to do Granada rotors, will I need 15" wheels?

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2004, 05:13:25 PM »
Front brakes part 2. Ive got the calipers on now. Here is what I did. I used a front caliper from a 1983 Monte Carlo Part # 208783-C160 and # 208785-C161. $11.99 + core charge of $10.00 each. I used a Duralast Gold brake pad # 529457 DG154 $ 28.99. You will need 2 pair of " brakeware" H5004 or Wagner F6074 or Bendix H5004 bolts that go through the caliper and allow the caliper to slide on the bracket.You need 2 , 1/2-20x2" 1/4 bolts and 2, 7/16-14x2" bolts to fasten the bracket to the spindle. You need 2 Brackets. This is a problem because Nobody makes them for 71-73 cars. For 74 and up you can use the brackets you can buy off ebay. I bought my brackets off ebay and modified them for a 71-73 type spindle. I cut the top mounting insert off, then mounted the caliper using the lower bolt. I threaded the top bolt into the threaded insert I cut off the bracket and used compressed air to move the caliper piston into its correct position. With the caliper firmly locked up on the rotor I tack welded the top bracket/insert in place. Then I took it all apart and welded the insert to the bracket.
The next few pictures will show you what it looks like.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2004, 05:15:37 PM »
This picture you can see how much I moved the top mounting insert from the 74 and up bracket.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2004, 05:17:29 PM »
Here is what a 74 and up bracket looks like on a 73. You can see the missalignment.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2004, 05:18:54 PM »
I did need to shim the bottom out also. It needed about 5/16".
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2004, 05:19:53 PM »
Here is a head on view.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2004, 05:20:42 PM »
This is the top of the caliper.
Brad F
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1973, Pangra
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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2004, 05:21:28 PM »
An inside view
Brad F
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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2004, 05:22:19 PM »
Top front view.
Brad F
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1973, Pangra
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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2004, 05:23:03 PM »
inside looking at the bracket.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

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Re: Front disc Brakes
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2004, 05:28:06 PM »
Now, the down side to this project. 1) Modifying the brackets. 2) this setup is heavier than the stock 73 setup. The stock rotor is approx 9 lbs, the Granada rotor is 14 lbs. The stock caliper and bracket, loaded, is 7 lbs, the GM caliper and bracket, loaded is 6 lbs. Thats a net increase of +(-) 4 lbs per side. 3) You MUST use 15" or larger wheels to clear the calipers.
Brad F
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1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
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