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Author Topic: 71 spindle to 74 spindle  (Read 10059 times)

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Offline Jerry merrill

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71 spindle to 74 spindle
« on: July 23, 2012, 04:19:20 PM »
I am still a little confused about this conversion. Can I put 74 and up spindles on a 71. I know that the tie rod end diameter is different and would need to be reamed out and the brake rotors would need to be changed, but would this work?

Offline PintoMan1

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 07:31:53 PM »
yes, but why would you have to change the rotors? i didn't. but after awhile i went with the 5-lug rotors, so yes i changed rotors. you can still use the 4-lug rotors you have with no problems.
1973 pinto runabout

Offline Jerry merrill

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 11:59:54 PM »
Thanks for the info. Are you using the 74 and up calipers?

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 07:40:24 AM »
Just use ALL '74-up parts on the '74-up spindles.....
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Offline oldkayaker

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 11:19:47 AM »
Just a clarification on "the tie rod end diameter is different and would need to be reamed out ".  The 74+ spindle tapered tie rod hole is larger than the 71-72 tie rod end.  So reaming it out will not fix this mismatch.  Beyond custom fabrication, I have not seen an easy solution for this yet.
 
Based on the great thread below, the 71-73 calipers do not bolt up properly to the 74+ spindles.  Using the later calipers sounds like the easiest solution here.
http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/front-disc-brakes-(4-5-lug)/msg8025/#msg8025
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline PintoMan1

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 07:01:47 PM »
yes i am using 77 bobcat calipers.
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Offline bbobcat75

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 08:34:45 AM »
these brakes have me soooo confused!!
have a 75 bobcat and the front brakes are the same as the 74-80, no problems there!!
 
now my 78 wagon is a different story, has 74-80 calipers but has the 71-73 rotors,  was replacing the rotors and seals and pads to find out the 74-80 rotors are taller then the 71-73.   when i put the 74-80 rotors on the center spindal nut would be tight and the rotor was still way tooo loose, now the bearings for 71-80 all the same and same with the rear seal!!!  so im guessing some one put 71-73 spindals on my 78 but can not figure out why, doesnt make much sense to me!!!
 
good luck with the brakes on these cars, what a pain!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 10:12:26 AM »
these brakes have me soooo confused!!
have a 75 bobcat and the front brakes are the same as the 74-80, no problems there!!
 
now my 78 wagon is a different story, has 74-80 calipers but has the 71-73 rotors,  was replacing the rotors and seals and pads to find out the 74-80 rotors are taller then the 71-73.   when i put the 74-80 rotors on the center spindal nut would be tight and the rotor was still way tooo loose, now the bearings for 71-80 all the same and same with the rear seal!!!  so im guessing some one put 71-73 spindals on my 78 but can not figure out why, doesnt make much sense to me!!!
 
good luck with the brakes on these cars, what a pain!!!

Or you got the wrong replacement rotors. ''74-up rotors will bolt on early spindles. I wonder if you had Falcon or early Mustang rotors by mistake....
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
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Offline bbobcat75

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 02:51:44 PM »
i wondered the same thing but federated has a different part number for those rotors then pintos but could have been mis boxed!!!
 
i put 71-73 rotors on so i could use my early mags!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline rbohm

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 08:29:48 PM »

Or you got the wrong replacement rotors. ''74-up rotors will bolt on early spindles. I wonder if you had Falcon or early Mustang rotors by mistake....

early falcons and mustangs did not have disc brakes on six cylinder models, and the wheel bolt patterns are different as well by 1/4"
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Offline bbobcat75

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2012, 08:46:20 AM »
im trying to figure out what the deal is.
 
so 71-80 spindals are the same, meaning that the rotors off a 71 will fit and 80 and 76 rotors will fit a 72.
 
correct??
 
i know that when i got the rotors from the parts store they where way!!! taller
meaning when i set them on the work bench and compared they where at least 1/4 taller.
 
thanks
eric
 
 
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 04:44:53 PM »
so my guess is the spindals have to be different, they use different rotors here are the specs.
the first one is a 71-73 and the second is the 74-80!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline Srt

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 03:14:21 AM »
".  The 74+ spindle tapered tie rod hole is larger than the 71-72 tie rod end.  So reaming it out will not fix this mismatch."
 
just a thought (regardless of the rotor mismatch) could it be that the 74 + tie rod ends can be used with the 71-72 rack? are the thread specs as well as length, the same?

http://www.fordpinto.com/pinto-faq/front-disc-brakes-(4-5-lug)/msg8025/#msg8025
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Offline oldkayaker

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 06:54:22 AM »
bbobcat75, Thanks for those rotor details.  I had thought the hub size was the only difference.
 
Srt, the 71-72 tie rod is 1/2" by 20 while the 79 I have measures about 9/16"? by 18.  I thought these were supposed to be metric cars?   The lengths are about the same.  Flamming River who sells 71-72 racks said most people use a straight bolt to attach a heim joint to the spindle steering arm on race cars.  The 71-72 spindle tapered steering hole looks like it could be drilled out to a straight 1/2" hole.  I believe the durability of a quality heim joint on a daily driver would be okay, but have no experience.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline bbobcat75

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 08:11:37 AM »
no problem oldkayaker.
 
i have been trying to figure out why the rotors i got at he parts stores would not fit my 78, and the only thing i can figure out is that someone has put 71-73 spindals on my 78, got a set of rotors from pintoman for a 72 he had and they fit perfectly, the 74-80 are tooo tall, when you put the center nut on the spindal the rotor is way!!! to loose, so my conclusion is that they are way diiferent!! hope this helps anyone out there!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1978 mercury bobcat wagon 2.3l - soon to have a 88 tc drive line
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Offline racer99

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2012, 10:39:58 AM »
bbobcat75, Thanks for those rotor details.  Flamming River who sells 71-72 racks said most people use a straight bolt to attach a heim joint to the spindle steering arm on race cars.  The 71-72 spindle tapered steering hole looks like it could be drilled out to a straight 1/2" hole.  I believe the durability of a quality heim joint on a daily driver would be okay, but have no experience.


Heims on a dd isnt a good idea.Even with the dust seals that are available you want to
inspect and clean them on a regular basis. Ask me how I know.

Offline Pinto5.0

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2012, 09:02:00 PM »
Dont run heims on a driver.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
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Offline oldkayaker

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2012, 12:42:13 PM »
Been doing some internet searching.  If you are still interested in using a 71-72 tie rod end with a 74-80 spindle, found an adapter bushing that might work, see link for TRB-65GR.  The vendor would not share the dimensions of his adapter bushing, but checking Ford component measurements, it looks like it should work.  If taking a chance on this, recommend first obtaining one to see if it fits properly before buying a second.  Have fun.
http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline the shaolin

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2019, 11:20:03 AM »
Been doing some internet searching.  If you are still interested in using a 71-72 tie rod end with a 74-80 spindle, found an adapter bushing that might work, see link for TRB-65GR.  The vendor would not share the dimensions of his adapter bushing, but checking Ford component measurements, it looks like it should work.  If taking a chance on this, recommend first obtaining one to see if it fits properly before buying a second.  Have fun.
http://www.mustangsteve.com/tierodbushings.html

Just thought I'd close the loop here.  I talked to the vendor and took some measurements and it sounded like the bushings were going to be close. 

He sent me a set and they DO NOT FIT the early pinto TRE's.  There's .005-.010" slop between the bushing and tie rod. 

I'm thinking I'm going to cut some inner tie rod ends up, sleeve and connect them to get the late thread on the early rack. 
-N

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2019, 06:50:04 AM »
Thanks for the follow up.  Just wondering, could shortening the adapter bushing from the large end, allow it to slide further down on to the TRE taper and remove the slop?  Also make sure the adaptor bushing does not protrude from the spindle steering arm top to avoid interference with the nut.

Another person was trying the adapter bushing but did not give final results:
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=21602.msg132106#msg132106
Note his 1973 spindle steering arm came with the same larger taper size as the 74-80 Pinto spindles.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline Wittsend

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2019, 10:28:25 AM »

Thanks for the follow up.  Just wondering, could shortening the adapter bushing from the large end, allow it to slide further down on to the TRE taper and remove the slop?  Also make sure the adaptor bushing does not protrude from the spindle steering arm top to avoid interference with the nut.


Another person was trying the adapter bushing but did not give final results:
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=21602.msg132106#msg132106
Note his 1973 spindle steering arm came with the same larger taper size as the 74-80 Pinto spindles.




I just read the noted other attempt as mentioned in the link. He says, "This will allow the use of 73 spindles (this is what I am using on my 71) or 74 and up spindles." So, like the one year only steering rack used in '73 was this some oddball spindle as well???  My Pinto is a '73 and does that aspect increase or decrease the use of the '74 and up pieces?


 Specifically what works with what regarding '74 parts fitting on a '73?


1.  A-arms?


2. Spindles?


3. Rotors?


4. Calipers?

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2019, 06:46:56 AM »
Your 73 steering rack is unique to that year.  The 73 tie rods are 9/16" diameter while the 71-72 used 1/2" tie rods.  Due to the 73 larger tie rods, it uses the same tie rod end as the 74-80 which is also 9/16" 18tpi (same part number for manual steering).  To accept the larger tie rod end, the 73 spindle steering arm taper hole is larger like the 74-80.  So the 73 spindle is unique to that year also.  The 74 A-arms will not physically fit the 73 with out extensive modification.  I have read some people have bolted in the later spindle to use the later rotor and caliper, but it changes the geometry and raises the front about an inch.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline Wittsend

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Re: 71 spindle to 74 spindle
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2019, 05:33:20 PM »
Thanks Jerry. I never knew the tie rod ends and spindles were different. Sadly not different enough (for 74 up brakes). I get that the 74 up Pinto/Mustang II was in development but it seems odd that the '73 was so different from the 71-72 cars.

Oh well, it all works and I was wise enough to get a very decent spare set of rotors from Pick Your Part (I think the set was about $8 out the door) so given I drive the Pinto about 200-300 miles a year, I think I'm set for life.