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Author Topic: 5200 to Webber Conversion  (Read 19246 times)

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Offline Scott Hamilton

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5200 to Webber Conversion
« on: August 18, 2013, 01:39:33 PM »
Some of you may know I had a little trouble with my Stock Holley 5200 on the recent Pinto Stampede. Today I replaced it with a Webber I ordered online...
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=K453
- Had to change one linkage piece from the old carb and everything else was a direct replacement. If you car has water Choke or an idle solenoid, you will have a few more things to work but this was a very easy swap and the engine runs fantastic. You know that flat spot inherent to the 5200s? Just smooth acceleration with the Webber. @ $259.00 it might be cheaper than a shop rebuilding your carb and setting up.


Here is a quick video I took to send to my Brother- Running sweet!
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Offline DreamBean

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »
And it's Shiney too....
Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

Offline cromcru

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 09:51:12 PM »
i was wondering about webber carb. having too many problems with my 5200 to wanna keep it anymore.do you think the 74 2.3 linkage will swap over easy.
79 bobcat  78 ford pinto station wagon   93 ford mustang lx   90 ford mustang cont lx  63 chevy truck    52 studebaker 2r16a

Offline Scott Hamilton

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5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 06:44:39 AM »
Everything is exactly as the 5200 except the piece that actually touches the pinto linkage rod.

This piece pulls off your old carb and can be placed on the new. I have worked on 2300 engines when I was a teenager and 'believe' they are the same but would need someone to confirm.
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 01:35:43 PM »
Funny, I just fixed a random miss (mainly at idle) that I've had for a while via replacing my distributor cap (rotor had contacted one of the terminals, causing the miss, I suspect...but I also replaced my points/condensor with NOS Ford parts at the same time, so who knows for sure), and in driving today, I noticed that while the car will get out of its own way again (and runs freaking sweet!!! :D), there is a flat spot just off idle. Is that the flat spot you refer to here?

I thank you for this info, but I assure you, my wife won't! :D lol

Offline Scott Hamilton

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5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 03:07:42 PM »
Yup - flat just off idle -
You can re-engineer the 5200, I had a carb shop in Idaho do for me... It worked great and lasted until the Stampede. The Webber is even better.

Unfortunately, that classic carb shop is closed, they did great work!
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 03:16:13 PM »
Unfortunately, this would have to wait. I just dropped $80 on a K&N 56-1010 5 minutes ago (priorities, and all...the cheap Redline air cleaner I had was developing holes after 8000 miles :() Also, something about 'you work on your car all the time, but never mine' or something. :)

Any idea what they did to fix your flat spot? I'm good with my hands. :)

Offline amc49

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 11:39:52 PM »
Wow, I drove those carbs for years and never had flat spot problems at all. But then I drilled holes a place or two in mine to change things up. Not for a flat spot though, rather to make car work well with a header.

With a Hooker header, 2.0 intake on a 2.3 motor, and some light head porting the basically otherwise stock engine made my guess maybe 130 HP and was a joy to drive with ATX in a Mustang II. Car ran right up until destroyed in a major hailstorm in '95. If you have to raise idle screw enough so that you get the throttle plate too high in the transfer slot you can easily get flat spot on sudden opening of throttle. The solution is to drop the plate back down to correct and drill a slight hole in the plate to let the extra air come in that would otherwise be going around the plate with the idle set higher to open plate further. That way you still have the full fuel supply of the transfer slot to stop the flat spot.

Older engines have slightly less vacuum and how you end up with throttle plate too far open to begin with. They need a bit more aircrack there.

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 12:18:12 AM »
You need to define 2.0, Kind Sir. There are 2: The 2.0 EAO, and the 2.0 that is a Brazilian smaller brother of the 2.3. They are different, and for posterity's sake, should be defined to avoid confusion here, where we discuss the 2.0 'Pinto' and the 2.3. People get confused.

Otherwise, good info.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 08:29:59 AM »
No flat spot on mine just drools after shut down, gonna dissect it today and see what's up and freshen er up.
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 09:18:23 AM »
Mine did that when I first got it. You could look down the primary bore and there would be a 1/4" of gas sitting on the butterfly. Rebuilt it, hasn't done it since. Not sure what was wrong, but it was obviously something. lol

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2013, 10:14:57 AM »
Well, this one came with the car so I have no idea what's inside but it looks like a reman?, I'm thinking maybe the check ball in the shooter cavity is missing?..
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2013, 07:46:23 PM »
Well, this one came with the car so I have no idea what's inside but it looks like a reman?, I'm thinking maybe the check ball in the shooter cavity is missing?..

Could be, they're there for a reason.

@Scott: I'm amazed. I ordered one last night (found it for $199 on eBay), and she hasn't said a word. I did let her ride in the car this evening...mayb e it's a 'Well, it does get better every day!) man win? :) lol Also a jetting kit...I'm giving mine a little more gas. :)

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2013, 08:56:37 PM »
Got it all apart today and the two check balls were there, bowl had a bunch of crap in it so I'm sure it just needs a good cleaning.
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2013, 09:36:49 PM »
I rebuilt mine with a kit from AutoZone, but the listing has disappeared.

That being said...mine works splendidly, but it is original to my 72 auto...and it wants more gas. $20 plus shipping. :) I'm just tired of the water choke, more than anything. lol

Speaking of my 5200, not my Weber. Just so we're clear.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2013, 09:53:47 PM »
Got a kit from a local Parts store here, if I get enough time tomorrow I should get it done. You're not selling yours are ya??..
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2013, 10:51:48 PM »
Got a kit from a local Parts store here, if I get enough time tomorrow I should get it done. You're not selling yours are ya??..

Lol. Yep. Somebody should want it. I just h8 the water choke. Oh, and that whole 'not really tuneable for power' thing. You know, whatever. :) lol

Offline Srt

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2013, 03:45:42 AM »
Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously .

Just my 2 cents.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline Srt

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2013, 04:02:33 AM »
By the way, another of my $00.02 worth; the 32/36 not being tuneable on the early cars is a bunch of crap.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2013, 08:00:54 AM »
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Mine says that on the bottom of the float bowl.
Art
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2013, 08:02:51 AM »
Lol. Yep. Somebody should want it. I just h8 the water choke. Oh, and that whole 'not really tuneable for power' thing. You know, whatever. :) lol
Where you at?, wouldn't mind having another one to experiment with.
Art
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Offline amc49

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2013, 08:15:35 PM »
Yeah finding parts can be hard, but if you are willing to go the way of the drill then these are among the most tunable carbs on the planet.

If someone referring to me earlier the 2.0 I mentioned was the German 2.0 not the smaller 2.3. The one with 3 cam towers not 4.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2013, 10:35:43 PM »
Yeah they do seem pretty simple, not into drilling jets though it's not just the hole size it's the flow, I've seen it go both ways on that something I learned many moons ago. Friend of mine had a Falcon drag car with Tunnelport 427 with 2 4's on it, one day at the track he was running kinda lean so he decided he was gonna try drilling jets so we did and it worked, two passes and the car went faster each time, but third time 3/4 track it was a melt down and holed two pistons was that ever a surprise, (at the time I didn't know that he already talked to someone about that and he was told you don't drill jets) so he took the jets and had them flowed and they flowed less then than in their original state before the first drilling, big learning curve there,LOL. I also learned that with my injectors not to mix different brands of pills, I had the same number pill from two different brands and they both flowed different.
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2013, 06:11:29 PM »
Where you at?, wouldn't mind having another one to experiment with.

Just outside of Nashville, TN. Probably should hold on to it for a week or two, though, cause this is my daily ride back and forth to work. A call of 'I'll be there in 45, I had to change my carb back out on the side of I40' is better than 'I won't be there today.' (Got to love a motorhead boss!) lol

Guess when I upgrade cams, I'll be offering the Weber up, too. lol. Do they make a 38/38 with the 'F' oval neck vs the 'G' square neck? Guess one way or the other, I can mod my K&N. :) lol

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2013, 08:02:37 PM »
Just outside of Nashville, TN. Probably should hold on to it for a week or two, though, cause this is my daily ride back and forth to work. A call of 'I'll be there in 45, I had to change my carb back out on the side of I40' is better than 'I won't be there today.' (Got to love a motorhead boss!) lol

Guess when I upgrade cams, I'll be offering the Weber up, too. lol. Do they make a 38/38 with the 'F' oval neck vs the 'G' square neck? Guess one way or the other, I can mod my K&N. :) lol
Wow quite a ways away probably be a killer on the ride, but let me know when you decide to part with it I may still get it from ya..
Art
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Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 07:40:45 PM »
Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously .

Just my 2 cents.

Have not installed, but from visual observation, I can say: there is no drilled hole for the decel valve, the accelerator pump 'squirter' is dual-discharge vs single, and it comes (generically) jetted much richer. It may be a 'Holley, under license from Weber', but a 5200 does not a Weber make. :)

I say again: 'Emissions-rated carburetor'. :) Not the same thing.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 09:31:58 PM »
Mine is double discharge too, thought about plugging the secondary side up and see what happens, can always drill it back out if it don't work but I can't see having fuel dumped on the secondary when it's closed.
Art
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Offline Srt

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 09:39:33 PM »
Never intimated that the 38/38 was an emissions rated carb.

The 38/38 would of course have dual squirters because both throttle plates open simutaneously not progressively

References to Holley and Weber were in relation to early 71 vehicles as stated.

All statements were made based on my experiences on my car many years ago in 1971 on my (stock from the factory Weber 32/36 equipped manual trans) Pinto.

Good luck sorting yours out. I know once you get there it will have been worth the 'trip'.

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2013, 07:46:24 PM »
Some early '71 cars were factory equipped with a Weber (32/36) progressive secondary carb.
Later the carbs were (are) the same. However they were manufactured by Holley with license from Weber. In my experience the early carbs , either design, were identical right down to primary and secondary main jet sizes; idle air jet and emulsion tube sizes and design,
Personal experience met with no difference on a reasonably stock motor with any idle airjet or emulsion tube changes (not sure about now, but back then an enormous combinations of idle air jet/emusion tube configurations was available). But a world of difference could be felt with no. Mileage decrease with a drill size bigger in both the primary & secondary main jets.
I never had any experience with flat spot incidents on any I used. That could very well have been due to the fact that all the cars I worked on were at the time essentially new cars. Take notice that the time period I am referring to is 1970-1973 (early.
The 32/36 IS, on the early cars, a Weber Carburetor.
If you want to wake it up (an early one that is) make sure you have a decent valve job (I used to do my own and some creative valve seat 'massaging will do wonders), a bit bigger on the main jets both primary & secondary (leave all the other ones alone) and a recurve of the distributer will work wonders without hurting mileage at all.
If you have a 'hotter' motor & still want more but wish to stay with a 2bbl carb then consider a 38/38 DGV which is darn near bolt on but has both barrels opening simultaneously .

Just my 2 cents.
I have installed the Weber 38 DGAS non Progressive on a stock 2.0L  with headers, OMG !!!!! now that's where the Torque and HP were hiding!  :P  Screw the Smog check , My 9 inches of tires went up in a smoking Blizzard!  It was soo good that I swapped complete intakes just for a Smog check for the day. I still have those goodies for when I build another street car!
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Offline jeremysdad

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Re: 5200 to Webber Conversion
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2013, 07:46:27 PM »
Never intimated that the 38/38 was an emissions rated carb.

The 38/38 would of course have dual squirters because both throttle plates open simutaneously not progressively

References to Holley and Weber were in relation to early 71 vehicles as stated.

All statements were made based on my experiences on my car many years ago in 1971 on my (stock from the factory Weber 32/36 equipped manual trans) Pinto.

Good luck sorting yours out. I know once you get there it will have been worth the 'trip'.

I was not insinuating that you were, I was referring to the 5200 vs DFEV, in particular.

The carb I received, after taking it apart, was jetted this way from the factory:

Idle jets: 55/50
Mains: 137/140
Air correctors: 165/160
Emulsion tubes: Unknown, not taking it back apart. (lol)

Tomorrow morning, it goes on with idle jets 65/70, mains 140/145. Air correctors unchanged. I'll report back.

Enjoy your 3 day weekend!!!