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Author Topic: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap  (Read 52019 times)

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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2006, 09:45:39 AM »
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2006, 07:49:18 AM »
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2007, 10:47:48 AM »
I don't know why some of the links no longer work, sorry.

Anyway, I have recently done some work on my tan car and thought I would share some info.

When I first did the swap I only had the 86 T/C parts to work with, but a few years and cars later, I have some options. When I did the swap I used a modified (by me) '86 fuel rail with the lines going out the left side, and it required me to install metal (brake) lines up the left fender wall from the stock lines to get to the rail. When I did Connie's car, I used the '87/88 rail that has the short plastic lines that go DOWN off the rear. I found the 87/88's to be much easier to hook up to the stock lines (still with modifications), not to mention that the fuel filter hooks right to the feed line saving: line/connector/clamps/time. I swapped out the '86 rail with the later one and it now makes R/R very easy for the filter and the rail/injectors too. IMHO: This also makes for a 'cleaner' looking install. I did this over the last couple of days, a little each day (no time), and the car back running.

BTW: I never knew there was a limit on posts of 10,000. characters until today when I added a few words to my first post in this thread.

Bill
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Offline GFPRACING

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2007, 06:41:51 AM »
YOU  COULD USE A BOB CAT HOOD AND GRILL

Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2007, 08:02:13 AM »
YOU  COULD USE A BOB CAT HOOD AND GRILL

Is this something that you did? Did you need to make any modifications? Photos?

I have studied my 78 Bobcat hood and I know it has a different shape, but the EFI intake is so far back I am not sure what the clearence would be. Just by where my mine is in my tan car, I know that it would allow a custom and/or rotated upper to fit better.

Bill
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2007, 06:22:54 AM »
I agree but I have alot of questions and I would probably hog up a couple of pages just asking. 1 Is there a manual out there that covers this swap? Like the V8 one I just bought.Ok ... 2 I need to know if the motor is a direct bolt up in a 72, 3 Why does the PCM need to be repinned,where do I find out that info, 4 will my bell housing bolt up to the 2.3 turbo motor(2.0 c4) , 5 how did you plumb your fuel tank and fuel lines with the return line, 6 what torque converter stall speed should I use, 7 where did you put the pcm relay, 8 where did you put the fuel pump relay,how were they wired in, 9 did you use the stock radiator and if not which one did you use, 10 whats the best spot for an intercooler,what intercooler did you use...ect ect ect?

1) Not that I know of. I have mentioned before that I was going to do one, but with all the different year parts and combonations, I did not feel that I could do it to my satifaction. I purchased that "V8" swap book and put it in the trash the day I got it.

2) With 'stepped' dowel pins it will go right in; the bolt patterns are the same. You COULD spend $200. to $300.+ on the C4/2.3 bell, or $25. on the pins. You will need a 2.3/C4 flexplate if you keep the C4. Keep in mind that a 'Pinto C4' is a light duty C4 (but still better than a C3).

3) It does not, DEPENDING on the combo you plan to use.

4) See #2.

5) I mentioned it in this thread.

6) I can't help you there other than to tell you when I first did this swap I had the stock C3 with the stock converter in it and it was fine. Connie's car has the stock one as well; no issues.

7) I mentioned it in this thread.

8) Under the dash. I used 86 T/C harnesses that pull the pump's power from the ECU.

9) I mentioned in this thread that I used a Mustang II V8 one, but I converted to a 2.3 WITH A/C one; Connie's car has the same.

10) Front mount, Cheap ebay one.

Bill


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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2007, 08:22:15 PM »
1st photo:

I mentioned in my first post that I used an A/C heater box with the evap. removed to relocate the blower motor. I posted a photo of the heat shield installed over the large hole left behind, but not one of behind the shield. After sealing the hole in the box, I used a section soft foam, then a thin section of a dense closed cell foam. It was black until I painted the engine bay, but it will be hidden so I did not care. Some people out there with A/C cars might notice the 2 extra bolts sticking through; The non-A/C cars have the 4 around that hole, the A/C cars only have two there. I needed to plug the holes AND install a heat shield, so I installed those two just through the firewall. All 4 have nuts on them in the photo, THEN washers; this gives me about .5" between the firewall and the shield. I have hosed it down to test, but have had no water in the car. BTW: I installed the shield to protect the foam from heat and other forms of damage.

2nd photo:

I also talked about installing a FMIC. I did not need to trim the stone deflector, but the hood latch brace that goes to the bottom of the radiator support was in the way. Some people just remove the brace, but it leaves the latch bracket very unstable only being attached to the top of the radiator support. I made a new brace, but mine mounts THROUGH the stone deflector instead of behind it. This helps keep the hood from vibrating and more secure without the use of pins, and secures the middle of the stone defletor. Also, the upper part of my brace mounts the top of the I/C.



Bill
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2008, 08:13:53 PM »
I located a new T-Bird T/C Donor car; I was not really looking for one, but when opportunity knocks.....

Now, let me start by saying that I respect the fans and owners of other cars, and I do NOT see all Turbo Coupes as 'donors'. I feel that if a car is in good shape or restorable it should not be just a "donor". The salty north does a job on most cars and the T/C's I have found are no exception. I was hoping that this new (to me) T/C was street-able, but it is way past the point of no return. Rust and 'critters' have erased all doubt as to the fate of this car. I have never seen a car with as much mouse related damage, EVER, and I can watch the right front fender MOVE when I turn the steering wheel as the strut (shock) tower is FULLY disconnected from the uni-body frame and is only part way hanging on to the inner fender. There are no body panels worth saving, no brakes, no floors, and the interior was half-way gutted already and what is there is junk.

What I am gong to do is to post some photos and give some details as I remove the harness and engine management items. This might help save some time for those with their donors, or at the junk yard. I am sorry to say that I started gutting the car before I thought of doing this, so the interior shots will be all "AFTER's" (I think most people will know what it looks like 'before' anyway).

This car is an 86. Many people reccamend using a engine harness from a Merkur as it is more of a 'stand-alone', but I have done 2 installs with the 86 T/C harness and it is not bad to work with, not to mention it is easier to find and MUCH cheaper. The 87/88 T/C engine harnesses are much more complicated and have non engine wiring mixed in as well as some of the engine harness mixed with non engine wires.

Please ask questions if you need more info or better photos.

BTW: The photos in THIS post are all BEFORE photos showing the condition of the car when I got it.

Bill
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2008, 09:43:02 PM »
Sorry for not having a 'before' photo.

The view of the passenger side dash is what I did with removing ONE bolt and the use of a hammer and my hands. I removed all the wire bundle clips as well. It looks like a BIG mess, but there are not that many wires that you need.

I placed a section of blue masking tape next to some of the items in the photos names. The items I mention are the ones you need for the swap and where they are.

The fuel pump inertia switch is located in the trunk, above and slightly forward of the right inner wheel house. The first photo is looking at where it bolts, the second is with the camera between the q-panel and the trunk support. There is a relay there too. The wires that lead to is come from the back seat area and the pump wires head to the gas tank from there. I will get another photo of where it goes out to the tank. You could cut them near the switch and run your own too.

I show the back seat and the inner trim panel removed and the harness pulled up out of all the clips. You only need the wires to the inertia switch and pump.

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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2008, 09:46:59 PM »
The sill plate is removed and the carpet cut around the seat belt anchor. Pull up the carpet and release the clips and covers holding the wires.

The ECU is clipped into the right kick panel. Once it and the wires around it are unclipped, all of them will fall out. The engine harness goes through the firewall just above the blower impeller. Please note that a hammer will let you see the impeller better. You will need to unbolt the ECU from the harness, disconnect the TWO ground wires at the lower right kick area. When you are ready to feed the harness through the firewall and into the engine bay, be sure to install some duct tape around the opening to prevent any wires being cut; that hole has SHARP EDGES!.

The fuel pump wires have a 3 wire connection near the ECU connection; unplug it and you can feed it out the back into the trunk to the inertia switch and relay. The fuel pump GROUND is located just in front of the right front seat; rip the carpet in to gain access.

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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2008, 09:57:17 PM »
More...
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2008, 10:00:45 PM »
Under the hood:

All items are identified by the photo title and should be easy to figure out their locations. These photos show the items that are NOT on the engine itself. There are many sensors on the engine that need to be unplugged before removal. With one exception, all of the connectors will only fit to where they need to go. The one, or should I say two, that can be interchanged are for the injectors and those connectors are NEAR the IAC; MARK THEM CAREFULLY.

Slide the harness into the engine bay and Carefully remove and disconnect all the wires from the engine and lift the harness out of the engine bay. You will find wires that do not need to be reconnected to make the engine run.

The EGR relay is not NEEDED to make the car run, but for those that need or want to keep it hooked up, it is located behind the passenger side strut tower. Take careful note of where all the wires and hoses run.
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2008, 10:09:41 PM »
I will post more as I go.

Hope this helps....


Bill
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2008, 11:02:00 PM »
I tried to fix some of the photos; sorry about that.

It is amazing what mice can do to a car; the smell was intense. Rust did a job too. The rear susmention was not held in by much and the rear was leaking fluid where the tubes go into the carrier (scary).


Here are a few more photos.

Bill
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Offline turbopinto72

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2008, 11:45:25 PM »
I hate mice.......... .... >:(
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2008, 02:55:49 PM »
Any tips on getting the high pressure, duck-bill clip EFI fuel hoses to mate up to the low pressure Pinto fuell lines?
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2008, 05:03:07 PM »
Any tips on getting the high pressure, duck-bill clip EFI fuel hoses to mate up to the low pressure Pinto fuell lines?

...I used the stock Pinto tank and lines.There is a return line restrictor inside the tank on some, if not all Pintos; I did not remove them from either car, but...

When using an inline pump, get it as low as you can. They don't like to pull the gas UP out of the stock tank. Use a large fuel filter made for a EFI car, and I used EFI hose and clamps. With some heat and a little grease, I was able to slide the EFI hose over the EFI connectors and brake/fuel line flaired ends.
....


Bill
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2008, 11:40:12 PM »
just curious as to how you install the bosch relay for the fuel pump and why. I dont have the wiring from the three wire plug up by the ecu to the pump and inertia switch from my 85 tc. Will any 85 - 88 ford tbird have the same wiring for the pumpo and inertioa switch. i was going to have my tank worked on as to put the splash tank and tc pump in the top of it, but as of tonigt i am the owner of a inline pump and filter. now all i need is WIRING HELP. HELP, Im tangled in these wires and cant get out. i still dont know where the gray plug hooked on the drivers side either. it has a couple wires from the ecu in it and two from down by the distributor

Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2008, 07:11:21 PM »
just curious as to how you install the bosch relay for the fuel pump and why. I dont have the wiring from the three wire plug up by the ecu to the pump and inertia switch from my 85 tc. Will any 85 - 88 ford tbird have the same wiring for the pumpo and inertioa switch. i was going to have my tank worked on as to put the splash tank and tc pump in the top of it, but as of tonigt i am the owner of a inline pump and filter. now all i need is WIRING HELP. HELP, Im tangled in these wires and cant get out. i still dont know where the gray plug hooked on the drivers side either. it has a couple wires from the ecu in it and two from down by the distributor

The questions you are asking are a little vague. To help you, you need to say what parts you have and what you did to them.


Bill
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2008, 08:35:09 PM »
Okay, another couple of questions:

Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?

And what common mistakes cause people to accidentally burn up computers and harnesses?

BTW, I heard that the way to splice those duck-bill ends is to first soften up the plastic fuel line by boiling it in water for ten minutes or more. Will try it in the next few days and let you know back.
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2008, 08:57:29 PM »
Okay, another couple of questions:

Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?

And what common mistakes cause people to accidentally burn up computers and harnesses?

BTW, I heard that the way to splice those duck-bill ends is to first soften up the plastic fuel line by boiling it in water for ten minutes or more. Will try it in the next few days and let you know back.

What loose end?

Attempting to use the wrong harness/ECU combo, putting power to the wrong wire, not having the ground wires connected.

If you are splicing the factory plastic fuel line use connectors made for it; they will have directions. Yes, hot water is what mine said to use.


Bill
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2008, 10:08:20 PM »
Okay, another couple of questions:

Does the lose wire end for Signal Return line on the ECU harness get grounded?



Reading my notes pertaining to my LA3 computer, the signal return line has no loose wire end. It is the return line for nearly every sensor used (black w/ white tracer in my case). So my guess would be you must be missing one component such as the speed sensor or diagnostic port maybe??
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2008, 07:36:10 AM »
Hello ..as you may know I have my `80 turbo Bobcat swap back on track but I have been offline for quite the while. While reading on how you fit the engine into the bay without the need to cut a hole in the hood, I realized that I have neither the tools or expertice. So I`m wondering..thi nking aloud.. is it just 5/16 that needs taking off? b/c if it is..couldn't`t I find that much in trimming the lower intake where it bolts to the crossover and the actual top of the crossover? Would it adversely affect the motor? I`m not into racing..at least not until I find an 8" rear end. Anyways any input would be greatly appreciated... .TIA.
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2008, 08:38:17 AM »
Hello ..as you may know I have my `80 turbo Bobcat swap back on track but I have been offline for quite the while. While reading on how you fit the engine into the bay without the need to cut a hole in the hood, I realized that I have neither the tools or expertice. So I`m wondering..thi nking aloud.. is it just 5/16 that needs taking off? b/c if it is..couldn't`t I find that much in trimming the lower intake where it bolts to the crossover and the actual top of the crossover? Would it adversely affect the motor? I`m not into racing..at least not until I find an 8" rear end. Anyways any input would be greatly appreciated... .TIA.
80 Bobcat...donor car `87 Merkurr


*Please note that the 79/80 cars have a different style hood, and I have only done this swap with 77/78 Pintos. I have read where the only issue is with the hood's inner structure interfering with the T/B linkage, but I have NO direct experience with this. Also, I have seen a big difference in engine height between different Pintos of the same year/engine. All this needs to be looked at, and I reccamend doing massive amounts of measuring BEFORE the stock engine is removed.*

As I stated, when I first did my install, I lowered the engine that amount (5/16") AND had to grind off some of the upper and T/B, as well as put a 45* on the vac. fitting (and grind that too). With this I have never had a problem. Keep in mind that this only works with the 'later' upper; the early one won't work. 

Your install might not need much room, but if you don't have a welder of your own, it would still be cheaper have work done on steel parts VS. Alum. I think there is not enough 'meat' on the flange area to safely remove much.

As far as the earlier Pintos: I don't know where else you can SAFELY remove the almost 3/4" (total) needed, and still have everything line up and not interfere with other parts (like the T/B and valve cover).  With Connie's install I removed .5" from the (later) upper and lowered the engine about .25". Unless you cut/weld/grind something(s) to get that much, you will have to do something with the hood. IMHO: lowering the engine 1/4" to 5/16" is the easy way to go. I reccamend doing it with the FRAME brackets like I did later with my Bobcat; MUCH easier.

BTW: Were you going with a carb. before?

Bill
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Offline 80bobcat

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2008, 09:40:22 AM »
Thanks Bill.. the info finalizes it..a hole and scoop must be put on.. well at least I know.. My original post was for the carrbed turbo but it quikly changed to the TBird or Merkurr turbo when everything was considered ..not very experienced in this and not really sure of what I`m doing...all tho the long delay was a combination of health,help and money I shouldn`t be too far away from driving my prized pony  ;D.... thanks for asking tho.
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2008, 06:19:15 PM »
So how do you make these two meet? I wasted a hour and a half last night heating them up in boiling water and trying to squeeze them together over and over again until I gave up in frustration. I am guessing that there is a step or subtlety that I'm missing.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
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Offline 77turbopinto

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2008, 07:53:42 PM »
So how do you make these two meet? I wasted a hour and a half last night heating them up in boiling water and trying to squeeze them together over and over again until I gave up in frustration. I am guessing that there is a step or subtlety that I'm missing.

What did the directions say?

When I posted the info on 'splicing' it was for 'splices', that looks like a 'repair' end fitting; you MIGHT need a special tool for that. WHEN I use the double end barb-type splice that is MADE for these lines the directions say to use hot water. When I gut a car I take as much line and as many fittings as I can, then SPLICE together what I need.

When I did my first swap I used the 86 T/C rail and eliminated all the plastic lines (first post of this thread).

I noticed that you posted this same question in a different/new thread as well; I will only be putting this info here.

Bill
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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2009, 07:34:06 PM »
I don't know why some of the links no longer work, sorry.

...

Bill

The broken links have been bugging me for a while.  Apparently, somewhere between the quoted message (December 2007) and the previous (October 2006), the site software was updated, it changed record formats and locations, but didn?t update internal links, so, in my search for information I found these:

Reply #1
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9816.msg60988.html#msg60988
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,9816

Reply #20
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5657.msg34066;topicseen#msg34066
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5657

Reply #24
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=1368.0
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,1368.0

Reply #28
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088
Good link:  http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088;image

Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083;image

Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089;image

Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090;image

Reply #30
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5906.0
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5906.0

Reply #31
Bad link: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5959.0
Good link: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,5959.0

Mike

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Re: Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap
« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2013, 03:56:34 AM »
I've been working on this swap on a 77 coupe, and if you don't mind doing a Little trimming on the sheetmetal up by the sore support, you can use the stock t/c air box, filter and all.  I went to a wrecking yard, and found a rubber intake hose off a 88 Mazda 626 to connect it to the turbo intake.  Looks very stock and should work well.  Just thought I would share.  If I ever get a digital camera, I will post photos.  Jim
;)