PINTO CAR CLUB of AMERICA
Shiny is Good! => It's all about the Turbo... => Topic started by: 76hotrodpinto on January 27, 2015, 11:59:24 PM
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I'm shining up this motor...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/00X0X_4kdTeDbKUB3_600x450_1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/00X0X_4kdTeDbKUB3_600x450_1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/00T0T_59AmuPzdFbB_600x450_1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/00T0T_59AmuPzdFbB_600x450_1.jpg.html)
And stuffing it in here!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/00808_lY5RBEA6q4S_600x450.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/00808_lY5RBEA6q4S_600x450.jpg.html)
I've done a ton of motor swaps, but this will be the first turbo. The motor has been put in a courier truck, and run, before pulled. Married to a t5. I have questions about some clearances. Will my hood close? How about heater motor and battery? I'm familiar with most trans. issues I will encounter, I think. And of course I will be looking to max out the hp on this setup, but let's get her in there first. How about some often overlooked issues? I understand this is a good motor to learn the art of the turbo, without to much financial hardship. Please and thank you!
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I think you should rip that turbo stuff off and send it to me so you can have a nice EFI ;-) LOL
Pictures also as you do it!!! :D
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I think you should rip that turbo stuff off and send it to me so you can have a nice EFI ;-) LOL
Pictures also as you do it!!! :D
I'm so bad about the picture thing. I'm lucky to get a before and after. I just don't think to stop and take pics. I'll try though. Without the turbo, I wouldn't even want the efi.
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The 74 and up cars, which you obviously have are a lot easier. Rack clearances, motor mounts and radiator size options are not problems you will encounter.
There is the battery tray issue. My 73 was badly rusted so I just put in a new panel that was advantageous to a turbo. Options are the trunk or the drivers front (move the washer tank). Be aware of the alternator or other accessories on that side if you use the battery in the front.
There is a bolt (stud) issue on the outer exhaust where it turns 90 degrees downward. Shorten the stud as much as reasonable and possibly drill a hole to facilitate tightening. From there I used the stock T/C downpipe and had some clearance issues with the frame rail. Slightly flattening the out edge fixed that.
I have the 87-88 intercooler in my '73 and other than the scoop to feed the intercooler the hood closes without issue - BARELY and I do mean BARELY. Your engine has the taller center section of the valve cover and that might raise the air plumbing..
I used the fan motor from an MG (reverse the polarity) and have sufficient exhaust clearance. Some opt for the A/C model that puts the motor in the interior.
The T-5 has clearance issues (if you use the bell crank) with the cable and the crossmember. A small offsetting plate fixes that. The drive shaft is dependent upon the rearend used. I went from a /C-4/6.75" rear to a T-5/ 8" rear and the shaft swapped right over.
Mounting the fuel pump, return lines, harness etc. you just sort as you go.
I did a two part write-up on my '73 wagon swap using a stock '88 T/C engine - T-5. You might glean something from it.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893 http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11909.msg76894#msg76894
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The 74 and up cars, which you obviously have are a lot easier. Rack clearances, motor mounts and radiator size options are not problems you will encounter.
There is the battery tray issue. My 73 was badly rusted so I just put in a new panel that was advantageous to a turbo. Options are the trunk or the drivers front (move the washer tank). Be aware of the alternator or other accessories on that side if you use the battery in the front.
There is a bolt (stud) issue on the outer exhaust where it turns 90 degrees downward. Shorten the stud as much as reasonable and possibly drill a hole to facilitate tightening. From there I used the stock T/C downpipe and had some clearance issues with the frame rail. Slightly flattening the out edge fixed that.
I have the 87-88 intercooler in my '73 and other than the scoop to feed the intercooler the hood closes without issue - BARELY and I do mean BARELY. Your engine has the taller center section of the valve cover and that might raise the air plumbing..
I used the fan motor from an MG (reverse the polarity) and have sufficient exhaust clearance. Some opt for the A/C model that puts the motor in the interior.
The T-5 has clearance issues (if you use the bell crank) with the cable and the crossmember. A small offsetting plate fixes that. The drive shaft is dependent upon the rearend used. I went from a /C-4/6.75" rear to a T-5/ 8" rear and the shaft swapped right over.
Mounting the fuel pump, return lines, harness etc. you just sort as you go.
I did a two part write-up on my '73 wagon swap using a stock '88 T/C engine - T-5. You might glean something from it.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893 http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11909.msg76894#msg76894
That's just the type of stuff I'm looking for. Thank you!
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Ummm, so mine is going to have issues?
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Dianne,
Putting a 2.3 (Turbo) in a '71-'73 car is like driving a bus through a narrow ally. The problems that the '71-73 cars have are:
1. The existing motor mounts need to be cut out and the 2.3 mount need to be welded in. The tricky part is the pan clearance at the rack and intake plumbing at the top with the hood (on turbo and I assume NA injected cars). There is about 3/16" clearance at the top and bottom. I have the lowered center section valve cover/intake system and I still filed the top of the throttle body as much as I dare to get the 3/16" clearance. SO..., before the motor mounts get welded in you have to be dead sure about their placement. I had my engine in/out 7 times before I was willing to commit. I see you have a '73 like I have. This car has a one year only steering rack where the pinion housing is rather bulbous. I both hammered the oil pan and filed the pinion housing for clearance (do at your own risk).
2. Ideally you will run a larger than the stock 17" radiator. To get the Pinto 20" radiator to fit you need to widen the opening. There are likely other options, but you should enlarge the opening for full air flow, not just put in a larger radiator with restricted air flow. Related is the fact that the '71-'73 cars have a shorter engine bay and clearance between the water pump nose and the radiator is about 3/8". I opted to run a "pusher" fan from the front.
Otherwise the other alterations mentioned are needed for all Pinto's.
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Dianne,
Putting a 2.3 (Turbo) in a '71-'73 car is like driving a bus through a narrow ally. The problems that the '71-73 cars have are:
1. The existing motor mounts need to be cut out and the 2.3 mount need to be welded in. The tricky part is the pan clearance at the rack and intake plumbing at the top with the hood (on turbo and I assume NA injected cars). There is about 3/16" clearance at the top and bottom. I have the lowered center section valve cover/intake system and I still filed the top of the throttle body as much as I dare to get the 3/16" clearance. SO..., before the motor mounts get welded in you have to be dead sure about their placement. I had my engine in/out 7 times before I was willing to commit. I see you have a '73 like I have. This car has a one year only steering rack where the pinion housing is rather bulbous. I both hammered the oil pan and filed the pinion housing for clearance (do at your own risk).
2. Ideally you will run a larger than the stock 17" radiator. To get the Pinto 20" radiator to fit you need to widen the opening. There are likely other options, but you should enlarge the opening for full air flow, not just put in a larger radiator with restricted air flow. Related is the fact that the '71-'73 cars have a shorter engine bay and clearance between the water pump nose and the radiator is about 3/8". I opted to run a "pusher" fan from the front.
Otherwise the other alterations mentioned are needed for all Pinto's.
Hmm, all reasons why I want to stay with a 2.0L EAO or Cossie YBG . I had installed a 4 core radiator, and a Pusher fan in front of the Rad, my competition accused me of turning on the fan to increase my speed and lower my times while racing ;D Never overheated in Sacto Summers at autocross with fixed fan on W/ Pump removed..
If you buy the goodies From Burton in UK, you can install a 2.3L Duratec from a Focus and have easy 150Hp with little mods and great Open hood Penache'
Lots of options, all it takes is money and sweat! 8)
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I guess I can count myself lucky to have the 76. Even though I lust for an early model! On the subject of the t5 install, is the shifter offset consistent enough that someone could have a template or just just a few measurements they can share with me? Or is it a try and see type scenario? And which way is going to be easier, given I don't have spiffy car lift, dropping the motor/tranny married, or individually?
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If a picture is worth a thousand words hopefully this will help. Thought I had a picture of the opening, but I don't. Anyway, the tunnel just needs to be cut forward about 3". The cover I used is from the Turbo Coupe, just hammered to fit. It covered the whole opening.
I shortened the shifter (it is too high) by cutting and welding it and then made the plate to move it rearward (it is too far forward). I'm 6ft. and prefer the seat back and leaned. Getting the shifter right is tricky. The angles need to be just right otherwise the motion becomes awkward. I could still use it back 2"-3" ideally. But, where it is..., is the compromise one must accept. I tried angling it by pivoting on the lower bolt, but that is when the awkwardness started.
It was about 6 years ago and I don't recall the install method. But, I'm not an engine/Trans as one piece kind of guy. So I know it wasn't that. Which went first engine or trans I don't exactly recall. With the tight fitting I'm guessing I put the trans to the (dangling) motor before I welded the motor mount in.
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Perfect, thanks. I think I'll set the turbo motor on to the trans that's in the car to get it settled in, then swap out the old trans for the t5 afterwards. Less to guess that way.
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I had decided to polish up the cast valve cover and put it on a motor that is actually fuel injected and turbo. I thought I'd just blast the paint off and get polishing. I was wrong, What the hell is that paint made of?! I started with soda... not even a chip. So I prepped for some hard media... nothing. I've blasted through powder coating and plastic coating, but damn! It won't run right if the valve cover isn't shiny!
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go get a can of aircraft aluminum stripper at the local parts store..10 bucks
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Hmmm... never tried that stuff. And it's at auto parts stores?
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So rather than start butchering my factory turbo setup, that goes over the head and will cause hood clearance problems, I'm looking in to other options I've seen in pics that route the pluming forward through the core support, through an intercooler, and back through the other side of the core support. I feel this design is just cleaner looking and less of a pain in the posterior.
Now this all makes me a little nervous as I'm new to the turbo world. I went with this motor because it was touted as a good way to get one going without having to blow through a few blocks learning. Can I do this type of setup, and still not get in over my head with new tuning issues? I feel I have a good grasp on this factory efi/turbo, but it's pretty basic. Does this change everything tuning-wise? Or just some extra plumbing to get around the motor,with maybe some minor tuning changes. Not trying to go bigger... yet... just clean and simple.
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Pinto_one has some great advise. I'm glad I'm doing the EFI to be honest, but kind of wish I was doing the turbo. I am looking forward to your project to be honest!
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Me too. I haven't done something so out of my realm, in a long time, as far as motors go.
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You're going to have hood clearance problems regardless of how you change the intercooler location or plumbing because it's the intake manifold/TB/TB linkage that hits the hood. The only way around that is to use a "rotated" short upper intake that faces forward and change the plumbing. The rotated upper will also require either eliminating the EGR tube or fabricating a new one.
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I have often pondered the hood clearance issue. What if you just popped in the whole running turbo and cut a hillbilly hatch in the hood and covered it with a scoop? If you had a donor hood, you could play the turbo game before getting in too deep. Going turbo is like the children's' song about the old woman that swallowed a fly... Running a fuel injected 2.3 and T5 is such a huge upgrade that it really raises questions about running a turbo. I wanted a turbo Pinto and was 100% in from the start, but it really took a ton of extra work to stuff it under the hood. I had to do all the stuff that 65Shelby just said and plumb my intercooler down and around the front. If you decided the turbo was not worth all the extra headache to get under a hood, you still have EEC IV, fuel injection and an overdrive transmission.
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I had mine swapped and running in a couple weekends and cost less than 500 bucks... engine trans and harness from a donor car...and still made money back on the turbocoupe carcass....
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Depending upon your configuration the hood isn't a complete problem. I got the whole factory '88 T/C engine under the stock '73 hood save for the (single) T/C scoop I used to duct air to the intercooler. The turbo Datsun 280Z scoop is an option to consider if you want the air ducted directly over the intercooler.
It is the upper / front of the throttle body and the main vacuum port (painted black) that are the contact areas that I filed. At the front bolt I filed it nearly to the threads! and, on the vacuum port I actually filed it too far and had to solder up the hole. In the picture you can see where I had glued foam (yellowish area), but I think it only added to picking up vibration. Everything is VERY tight but if you take your time it is doable.
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WOW that is soooo cool!!!!
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Awesome scoop ! Amazing you got all that in so clean. I have a clocked and chopped upper and after grinding the rack and pinion shoulder almost down to the strap and bumping the pan it barely cleared the hood. Recently I had the engine out doing tranny work and popped in fresh motor mounts and the top of the throttle was gently rubbing. A couple washers fixed it right up.
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Has anyone ever tried to remove a little thickness from the lower intake and upper intake flanges, and either fabbing the one running into the compressor, compensating for the adjusted height... or removing the corresponding thickness from the compressor and tube flanges? There seems to be room between the valve cover and throttle body to come down some.
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You might be able to buy 1/8" doing that, but I don't think that would be enough to solve the problem or be worth the effort.
I can't bring myself to cut a hole in the hood, so I am resigned to the (another) big job of doing something different for an upper intake/TB setup and rerouting the charge piping.
I mentioned a rotated short upper specifically because '87-88 upper intakes are about 3/4" shorter than the rest. That is why the valve cover has a recess in the middle. Mine is an '86 and thus a "tall" square intake.
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I'm the same about the hood. I want to keep it looking like a plain old harmless pinto.
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i rotated my upper intake 90 and shortened it by 3/4 in the back side and 1 inch on the front side.... basically a small pie cut...it clears just fine.
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I wanted to retain the '88 T/C engine setup as stock as possible. So, I knew cutting the hood was going to have to be done. My perspective is that at a Pick A Part 50% off sale I can get a hood for $20. My problem is I keep looking for one that it already white. And as I do the Pinto's are found less and less.
Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two. All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual. While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough. I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road. You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast! LOL
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I wanted to retain the '88 T/C engine setup as stock as possible. So, I knew cutting the hood was going to have to be done. My perspective is that at a Pick A Part 50% off sale I can get a hood for $20. My problem is I keep looking for one that it already white. And as I do the Pinto's are found less and less.
Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two. All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual. While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough. I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road. You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast! LOL
Ahhh, it's too early to laugh that hard.
My pinto actually came with a big ugly air cleaner sticking through the hood. I put a low profile air cleaner on it and just screwed a piece of sheet metal over the hole. It has hood pins too, blech! So chopping that one up would be fine, but it's not the look I want. Haven't found a decent replacement for it yet, but I'm hopeful about one I'm going to check out when the deluge ceases.
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Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two. All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual. While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough. I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road.
The Mustang SVOs only had one scoop. On top of that, is was position on the hood such that above 50-60mph it would start pulling hot air out of the engine bay and through the intercooler..a nd the red-hot turbo parts are right below that. At least that's what the legend states.
You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast! LOL
That's what I tell people at work; I made a Pinto fast so it won't get hit from behind. ;D
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The Mustang SVOs only had one scoop. On top of that, is was position on the hood such that above 50-60mph it would start pulling hot air out of the engine bay and through the intercooler..a nd the red-hot turbo parts are right below that. At least that's what the legend states.
Yea, one of these days I should use the Man-O-Meter test http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/u-tube-manometer-d_611.html to see "which way the wind blows." Hey, I've got a Indoor/outdoor thermometer sitting on my desk so I can check efficiency too. If nothing else I can claim the scoop is a vent for when I'm parked at idling.
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Yea, one of these days I should use the Man-O-Meter test http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/u-tube-manometer-d_611.html to see "which way the wind blows." Hey, I've got a Indoor/outdoor thermometer sitting on my desk so I can check efficiency too. If nothing else I can claim the scoop is a vent for when I'm parked at idling.
I'm just at my wittsend right now ahahahaha
I've wanted to say that for awhile!
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I was very wary to click on anything labelled "manometer". I had been under the impression it was just a ruler! Ahem...
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Well, I sure don't want to give people the wrong impression, so here is a manometer (see first image). Basically it is a clear, U-shaped tube that is partially filled with water (often colored to see better). One end of the tube is run in the air stream (see second image - BTW, that is NOT me). As the air pressure increases it forces the water to rise in the tube. Typically there is some form of marking to denote the amount the water rises. I also have seen the reverse where a vacuum is applied. Google images shows the manometer often being used to tune multi carburetor engines on motorcycles.
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When you hook up the manometer, make sure to also tape a bunch of yarn to the hood to look extra scientific. Your scoop does have some wedge to it...if it has enough..maybe it qualifies as an actual NACA Duct? Those Turbocoupe hoods had all that official looking plastic ducting hooked to them that made it seem like either engineering or marketing really thought they would be useful. I like the way it looks, subtle yet dangerous.
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I mangled up an injector today. Darn it all! I guess I'll just have some better ones now. So in the world of injectors for the tc setup, what are my best performing options?
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For a stock setup, stock or stock equivalent. Green-top injectors were stock for '83-85 engines, are low impedance, and flow 30lb/hr. '85.5-89 got "brown-top" injectors that flow 35lb/hr and are also low impedance.
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I have the brown top ones on it. Should I get a new set, or just replace the broken one?
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Which part of the injector broke? The plastic cap on the spray end can be replaced if the pintle isn't damaged.
One problem with 2.3T injectors that is getting more common as they age is that the plastic starts to split on the feed side. The 2.3T performance crowd, being famous as cheapskates, will sometimes use them if they aren't leaking or too badly cracked, but I think $200 is money better spent on new injectors than rebuilding a burned-down car.
I have several spares and, curiously, the early '85 parts aren't cracking, but the later ones are (which I think may be aftermarket).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/65ShelbyClone/Public/Car%20Stuff/a5b9e81e.jpg)
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I dropped the whole assembly, and bent the whole injector, maybe two of them. I'm looking at some ebay deals on another set. If I were to look beyond factory parts, what are some quality brands of aftermarket injectors?
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There are a lot of brands out there that are suitable and most of them just rebrand injectors from a smaller pool of manufacturers. GP Sorensen is a stock aftermarket supplier (I have some I pulled from a Merkur), Siemens, Bosch(OE), Hitachi(OE), Accel, Venom, etc. Even KEihin and Mikuni make injectors these days, but I don't think any of them are compatible with EV1 applications. That's the stock 2.3T injector series: EV1. EV3 injectors will drop in place, but have a skinny plastic body. EV6 is like EV3, but with an EV6/USCAR connector than can often be used with plug adapters. EV12 and EV14 are more common on much newer cars and are totally different.
Avoid no-name and/or unmarked Chinese bootlegs like the plague. If they ship from anywhere in China or are suspiciously cheap for new parts, avoid them.
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I'm loving all this new stuff to learn! I find some similarities to running blowers, which I'm pretty good at setting up right. The fuel injection adds a layer I've never dealt with. Playing a whole new game of psi.
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I have also heard that high impedance injectors will work with a 2.3T computer, but no one bills it as a sure thing. As long as they stay open when the ECU starts limiting current during the injection pulse, they will hypothetically work.
Conversely, using low-impedance injectors with an ECU designed to run highs is bad news. It's a lot like running an old-style ignition coil without a ballast resistor.
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I think I may have a cracked head! The one on the engine. I'm sending it in to get checked this week. It was running great, but I can't put it back on with any doubts. So much for the smooth sailing part.
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It would be a surprise if you DIDN'T have a cracked (turbo) head. Mine goes right through the valve seat. If it is leaking coolant, yea something needs to be done. Otherwise what I've read most people just run them. I'm still running mine.
You might want to go over to NATO, The Ranger Station etc. and see what they have to say. From my perspective the supply of Turbo Coupes are drying up. I've seen one in the past two years and I make monthly trips to two self serve yards. So, I'd like to know what head alternatives are going to become necessary in the future.
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It would be a surprise if you DIDN'T have a cracked (turbo) head. Mine goes right through the valve seat. If it is leaking coolant, yea something needs to be done. Otherwise what I've read most people just run them. I'm still running mine.
You might want to go over to NATO, The Ranger Station etc. and see what they have to say. From my perspective the supply of Turbo Coupes are drying up. I've seen one in the past two years and I make monthly trips to two self serve yards. So, I'd like to know what head alternatives are going to become necessary in the future.
Wouldn't the EFI work?
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My understanding if that the exhaust valve and maybe the seat are designed to handle the turbo heat over a N/A head. Also, the combustion chamber is larger to handle the boost. Others may know the situation better than I.
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My understanding if that the exhaust valve and maybe the seat are designed to handle the turbo heat over a N/A head. Also, the combustion chamber is larger to handle the boost. Others may know the situation better than I.
Oh, I thought they were the same. Maybe they can be built to handle it? Just a thought :)
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Turbo heads have the same large chamber as the oval-port "pinto" 2.3 heads. Turbo heads got super alloy exhaust valves that are quite durable in this application, although one-piece stainless is generally a suitable replacement. Inconel would be better IMO. The seats are cut into the head and are induction hardened like any other '80s-vintage production iron head. If you catch the cracks before they hit water, installing new seats typically stops things from getting worse.
Using a non-turbo head on a turbo engine will raise the compression from 8.0:1 to about 8.5:1 and make the engine more octane sensitive. Turbo 2.3s came with both larger chambers and dished pistons.
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Turbo heads have the same large chamber as the oval-port "pinto" 2.3 heads. Turbo heads got super alloy exhaust valves that are quite durable in this application, although one-piece stainless is generally a suitable replacement. Inconel would be better IMO. The seats are cut into the head and are induction hardened like any other '80s-vintage production iron head. If you catch the cracks before they hit water, installing new seats typically stops things from getting worse.
Using a non-turbo head on a turbo engine will raise the compression from 8.0:1 to about 8.5:1 and make the engine more octane sensitive. Turbo 2.3s came with both larger chambers and dished pistons.
What about the 2.3 EFI engines that came with the Fox bodies.
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Is esslinger the only company casting fresh heads?
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Hi Dianne,
If you want to go with a turbo you will need Forged pistons, not stock 2.3liter N/A pistons. You can use the forged pistons with out a turbo for now, and add the turbo later.
Dennis
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What about the 2.3 EFI engines that came with the Fox bodies.
They tend to break ring lands when turbocharged. The parts will hold ~200hp, but the slightest knock is likely to break a piston.
Factory turbo pistons by TRW have been obsolete for a long time too. :(
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They tend to break ring lands when turbocharged. The parts will hold ~200hp, but the slightest knock is likely to break a piston.
Factory turbo pistons by TRW have been obsolete for a long time too. :(
Oh :(
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Hi Dianne,
If you want to go with a turbo you will need Forged pistons, not stock 2.3liter N/A pistons. You can use the forged pistons with out a turbo for now, and add the turbo later.
Dennis
I'm keeping it non-turbo. More of a driver and fun car and show car :) The Maverick will be the muscle car :D
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Well that ones is cracked, not where I thought, but cracked. Not unusable though. I acquired 2 others to have checked, so I'll pick the best of the 3 and rebuild it. Puts me a little behind schedule, but what's new.
Made a 2 1/2" stainless down pipe, and shaping a panel to replace battery tray area, to give turbo room. Going to have to pull that damned heater box... again! I'm thinking I might run a bead on all the seems I can reach while the motor is out. But that means racking it up, so I don't know, feeling kind of lazy about that.
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Well that ones is cracked, not where I thought, but cracked. Not unusable though. I acquired 2 others to have checked, so I'll pick the best of the 3 and rebuild it. Puts me a little behind schedule, but what's new.
Made a 2 1/2" stainless down pipe, and shaping a panel to replace battery tray area, to give turbo room. Going to have to pull that damned heater box... again! I'm thinking I might run a bead on all the seems I can reach while the motor is out. But that means racking it up, so I don't know, feeling kind of lazy about that.
You found the turbo heads? Very cool! Now you have spares also!!!
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You found the turbo heads? Very cool! Now you have spares also!!!
Craigslist is good to me. I have been finding more turbo motors and parts, than non-turbo. I came across a guy who was into racing turbo coupes, and now he's done. Got another rebuilt motor, a pile-o-parts and a whole 86 tc. Some svo stuff in the pile too. All for $1300. Should be enough crap to get going!
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Craigslist is good to me. I have been finding more turbo motors and parts, than non-turbo. I came across a guy who was into racing turbo coupes, and now he's done. Got another rebuilt motor, a pile-o-parts and a whole 86 tc. Some svo stuff in the pile too. All for $1300. Should be enough crap to get going!
That's awersome, I found my 2.3 EFI and transmission for only $300 and probably didn't even need a rebuild...
Not finding any roller Pintos or Fox bodies :(
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your getting there, I sent you a PM on the steps to install the engine and trans, you will be so happy when it is done , later Blaine :o
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your getting there, I sent you a PM on the steps to install the engine and trans, you will be so happy when it is done , later Blaine :o
Thanks and I'm printing this out for it :)
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I've been slacking pretty hard lately(not feeling so well). But I have been doing some small stuff here and there, as meds allow. I have most of the wiring and clutter moved under the dash now. Battery is trunk mounted. No more wire bundle zip tied across the firewall. Starter relay, voltage regulator, coil and ign. module all under the dash, but still accessible. I'm trying to decide what to do with wiper fluid tank. I want to keep one, but not see it under the hood. Decided to delete that ugly firewall seem, while I'm in there replacing the fender well, where the battery used to live. Moving slow, but still moving...
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I had to ditch the washer reservoir altogether to make room for the relocated battery because I didn't want a battery sharing cabin space with me. It might have been different if I had a sedan, but at the time it was going to be my primary transportation .
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Put the reservoir inside the front wheel well
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Yes, if you still have your donor car (and the earlier cars are the same as the '88) the Turbo Coupe washer fits in the wheel well with a half circle cut. Here are a couple of pictures. They don't highlight the washer tank per-say, but if you look for it, you can see how I have it positioned as it regards placement in the engine bay.
Note also that the battery tray is from the Turbo Coupe with very minor alterations. There are two extended "nubs" on the bottom of the tray. I just slide a piece of PVC (I think 1") over one of the nubs and have the lower end resting on the frame rail. This aids in support of the battery. I have a home made alternator bracket and I'm not sure this tray location works for alternator clearance and a stock mount. As can be seen in the second picture the alternator is as tight as can be to the engine. Thus, the reason I made the mount "to fit."
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I never remember to take any pics when I'm working, but luckily a friend was there yesterday and got a couple pics of the battery relocation and de-cluttering of the engine bay.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/20150312_182338.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/20150312_182338.jpg.html)
My hand fabbed battery tray and hold down, and the trunk bomb!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/20150312_182305.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/20150312_182305.jpg.html)
My ocd is at rest for now. But I'm pulling out the motor and trans. as soon as I feel up to it. And cutting some sheet metal up in there, while the bay is empty.
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I'll try to get some more pics of the under dash work, either when my friend returns, or when my ribs heal up a little. Got real personal with the e-brake lever to work up in there, but with the pain killers, I didn't notice I was damaging myself.
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My turbo heads will be ready for pick up today, allegedly. So far behind on this already. I though I'd be turbo-ing all over the place by now! I don't even have the n/a pulled out yet. Won't pull it till I get the other motor ready, as it's my grocery getter.
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A few pics of the under dash.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.25.31.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.25.31.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.27.04.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.27.04.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.26.41.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.26.41.jpg.html)
And the final routing of the engine bay wires.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.24.24.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.24.24.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.25.02_1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.25.02_1.jpg.html)
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And a better one of my battery tray.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-03-18%2017.26.00.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-03-18%2017.26.00.jpg.html)
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You left out the center dash support!!! Why... that is there to keep the engine and transmission away from the fireball in a simultaneous front/rear collision. LOL
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You left out the center dash support!!! Why... that is there to keep the engine and transmission away from the fireball in a simultaneous front/rear collision. LOL
I'll duck tape a siracha sauce bottle in there for support. Those bottles have to be fire proof.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-04-01%2016.29.49.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-04-01%2016.29.49.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-04-01%2016.29.59_1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-04-01%2016.29.59_1.jpg.html)
Here's the siracha bottle and duct tape. Should hold, and make more real estate for gauges.
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Oh, no! You have now made the support too strong. Now vibration and torsional twist tear the dash, or trans tunnel (or both) out!!! LOL
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If that is an oil cooled coil, you should never lay one on its side. Look at all the cars that use that type of coil and you will see they are mounted vertically. Use the Ford E-core coil to get a much better coil and you can mount it any which way you want. Dirt cheap in the junk yards.
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Hmm... I've never had any problems from mounting a coil sideways. What is the issue?
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Story is that an oil cooled coil will over heat if layed / mounted on its side. Never seen a factory mount one on its side. E-core coil is so much better that all the mini stock racer use them 100%. Dirt cheap on e-bay and junk yards. MSD's how to book talks about this too. Coils are used on all the fords of the 90's. 4 cylinders coils are the same as 460. No difference.
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Story is that an oil cooled coil will over heat if layed / mounted on its side. Never seen a factory mount one on its side. E-core coil is so much better that all the mini stock racer use them 100%. Dirt cheap on e-bay and junk yards. MSD's how to book talks about this too. Coils are used on all the fords of the 90's. 4 cylinders coils are the same as 460. No difference.
I'm not sure if the one in there is oil cooled, never checked. It's a pertronix flame thrower, or some such thing, so I can look that up. What is used for cooling in an e-core? And is there a way to identify one at the yard?
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A lot of the Ford big block engines (390 that I know of) came from the factory with the coil mounted sideways. That said, they may have been built to certian specification to have done so. The concern regarding sideways mounted coils is the oil is not properly contacting the internal windings and thus not disipating heat evenly/properly. As Dick mentioned the modern Ford coil is forgiving in that regard and plentiful as well.
If your coil is a Pertronics I think that contacting them would bring a confirming answer as to intended mounting positions.
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"E-core" coils have epoxy-potted cores. While oil helps cooling in old-style coils, it is there more to act as an insulator. Epoxy coils have the iron pile eposed and don't need special cooling measures when driven as intended(usually an ECU or coil driver with dwell control like the original TFI module or a GM HEI). The ones that Ford used with EFI are better known as TFI coils and are blockish in shape. I'm using the one that came out the '86 Thunderbird donor. Just be aware that they use a special plug with spade terminals, not posts like a regular coil.
On a side note, I have the oil-filled coil in my Mustang mounted on its side and the TFI coil in the Pinto mounted upright.... ???
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I learn something new every other week. I'll look for some the next time I make a yard run.
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Many Fox3 vehicles, especially Mustangs and T-Birds, have the coil hidden under a plastic cover on the driver-side inner fender...if the cover is still there.
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Well I have 2 blocks, 3 heads, 3 turbos and whole 87 turbo coupe donor that runs great! I think I'm ready to start the swap now. Will that disc brake rear end and radiator/fan setup from the tbird fit my 76?
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That 'Bird has upper and lower control arm rear suspension. You could cut all the brackets off and weld on spring perches, but the rear end will still be about 2" too wide on each side. However, something the '87-93 Mustang crowd would do (if I recall correctly) is use the Mustang axels and somehow flip the caliper brackets in order to use the TC rear under a narrower Mustang. FYI, your donor car will have 3.55 gears if it's a 5-speed and 3.73s if it's an automatic....a nd a Traction-Lok in either case.
The radiator is way too big and won't fit without major mods. The fans might have potential.
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That 'Bird has upper and lower control arm rear suspension. You could cut all the brackets off and weld on spring perches, but the rear end will still be about 2" too wide on each side. However, something the '87-93 Mustang crowd would do (if I recall correctly) is use the Mustang axels and somehow flip the caliper brackets in order to use the TC rear under a narrower Mustang. FYI, your donor car will have 3.55 gears if it's a 5-speed and 3.73s if it's an automatic....a nd a Traction-Lok in either case.
The radiator is way too big and won't fit without major mods. The fans might have potential.
It's a 5sp. I thought the rad looked too wide, but I haven't had the time to check all that out yet. I'll stick to my current 8" and do a disc conversion later. Maybe I can re-coupe (get it?!) some money, by selling that one. Is there any info out there on the harness mods to run it in the pinto?
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Is there any info out there on the harness mods to run it in the pinto?
The info is pretty much "use something else."
Ford apparently made the '87-88 Turbo Coupe harnesses into one big integrated part that carries wiring for a lot of other non-engine systems. Wittsend has an opinion on using one in a Pinto as I recall. ;)
I used the ECU harness from my '86 donor car and it was still a major project paring it down to the bits I needed. It may have been less work to keep the emissions-related stuff had I used a stock ECU.
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Ford apparently made the '87-88 Turbo Coupe harnesses into one big integrated part that carries wiring for a lot of other non-engine systems. Wittsend has an opinion on using one in a Pinto as I recall. ;)
For sure on that. After I pared everything down that seemed non-essential I still had about 20 "not sure" wires. And that pared down took days. I'll included a shot of the harness as it relates to the dash. Now to be fair I opted to used the T/C steering column/fuse box etc. - but still. Basically I wanted the engine management free and clear of the stock Pinto wiring. Thought I'd avoid problems that way. LOL NOW..., I'm inclined to think I'd have been better off leaving 6" at the end of each connector and just soldering wires as needed. Live and learn.
The radiator I'm 99% sure is too big. I did bump my '73 17" to 20" but I assume you already have the 20".
As far as the rear end, I have the inverse. To have the T/C carcass hauled away I welded the Pinto 6-3/3" rear. So, you can somewhat visualize the difference.
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I took the tbird out for another ride. Man, that thing is pretty quick, for a boat! I did a bunch of staring and smoking today. I think I got the harness situation mostly figured out. I got to start today by replacing the fuel pump relay. I'm going to do the mods in the tbird to make it easier to just swap over. I did notice a hydraulic clutch though, that's going to take some more staring and smoking. And are you guys running thru the existing fuel lines and just clamping flexie efi lines off them, or flaring them out for compression fittings? Or?
Here's a couple pics of my donor.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-02%2015.30.26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-02%2015.30.26.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-02%2015.30.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-02%2015.30.40.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-02%2015.30.51.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-02%2015.30.51.jpg.html)
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If you think the 'Bird is quick as it is, try that driveline in a car that's 800-1000lbs lighter.
And are you guys running thru the existing fuel lines and just clamping flexie efi lines off them, or flaring them out for compression fittings? Or?
I'm using the stock steel lines with some mods, but there are numerous options for plumbing the fuel.
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I wasn't able to stuff myself to far under it yet, so I'm not certain the trans has a mechanical speedo output, or electrical. Anyone able to say with certainty, one way or the other? My understanding is that's only on the world class t5, this should have the non-world class t5... right?
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It doesn't matter; a manual Pinto cable and gear ought to fit in the T5 just fine.
FYI, World-Class T5s came in '86+ cars. I have one and you have one. :D
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It doesn't matter; a manual Pinto cable and gear ought to fit in the T5 just fine.
FYI, World-Class T5s came in '86+ cars. I have one and you have one. :D
So the wc t5 comes with both mechanical and electrical speedo out? I was under the impression the wc were electrical and the non-wc were mechanical. I like the idea of the wc t5, much tighter feel to it.
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My '88 TC donor had the electronic speedo even though the face was typical analog. So, I'm thinking they all were electronic. A word of caution..., I used the gear from the C-4 on my T-5. It had a tip on it and when clamped down it caused the gear to bind on the opposite side of the housing. The end result of that was the gear on the output shaft forced itself backwards - out of mesh. Prying with screwdrivers would not get to clip to snap back into place. I was almost going to pull the tailshaft when I found that the vertical tube of 90's era halogen "torch" light just fit over the shaft and inside the bearing. A quick whack and the gear was reset. However, I did cut the tip off to avoid the binding.
I also cut up the T/C fuel/return lines, part of the line is plastic and needs to be shortened. There is a barbed repair coupler I used to join the cut parts.
Don't waste any time considering the hydraulic clutch. It is an oddball configuration that internally parallels the steering column and has no allotted space in the Pinto. Get the bellcrank housing. You will need to elevate the cable mount over the crossmember, but that is easy enough with a piece of flat steel.
Here is a link to my two part build. Perhaps some of the information is helpful. http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893)
Lastly here is a shot of my engine compartment with the '88 T/C harness (and stock Pinto harness). Quite a few wires even when encased in the plastic wrap. Especially around the master cylinder.
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On the clutch subject, I'm toying with the idea of a different master cylinder, with similar capacities as the tbirds, mounted backwards up under the dash, like up near the dash bracing. That way the direction of travel at the top of clutch pedal will match the direction of the reversed master cyl. Then run the line out and down.
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The reverse clutch M/C is a possibility, but frankly the bell crank is simple, straight forward and available. I feel you would be reinventing the wheel to go hydraulic. And again, space might be tight. That general area under the Pinto dash I packed with the cruise control and intermittent wipers stuff so I be hard pressed to see up there and advise on the hydraulic feasibility.
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A clutch master cylinder under the dash is feasible, the first link shows one method. The second link covers non-OEM clutch hydraulic replacement lines for use with a 87-88TC hydraulic clutch slave cylinder.
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/71950-My-74-Turbo-Pinto-little-bit-different/page3
http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=058523;p=0
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I don't have my mind set on the hydraulic clutch, but it would be so nice. The cable is easier to install, but I've stuffed a few master cylinders in some dark corners before. I need to decide fairly soon though, so I can get this party started!
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Is there a way to tell if the tbird is setup with system that allows full boost in all gears, or the one that limits 1st and 2nd?
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That is an interesting question. With the T-5 I only recall the back up light switch and the speedometer wiring. So, how would the ECU know what gear you are in??? Maybe for the Automatic cars there was boost limitations? I have heard such, but only having a T-5 car I can't speak from experience. The 5 speed ECU for the 87-88 cars was LA-2 and LA-3 respectively. For the automatic cars I'd think there was likely an on/off type switch and either by completing or defeating a circuit (however Ford did it) the ECU can be fooled??? Regardless of what was done in the lower gears it was my understanding that the final HP rating for the Automatic cars was about 20 HP lower than the 5 speed cars. Hopefully someone can confirm this.
These two ECU's were deemed to have a faster processor over the 86 and older. I'm not sure what the SVO ECU had, but I believe the 5 speed version was rated at 205 HP VS 190 HP for the 87-88 T/C 5 speed. Probably a bit of apples to oranges comparison given various parts differences.
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Is there a way to tell if the tbird is setup with system that allows full boost in all gears, or the one that limits 1st and 2nd?
All of the cars that allowed for a"high" boost level of 14-15psi also had a limiter of sorts. The system actually limited boost to the baseline wastegate spring setting (~10psi) below 4000rpm regardless of gear. An EEC-IV had no provision for sensing what specific gear the trans is in. You can make it run full boost all the time by simply bypassing the boost control solenoid.
On the other subject of transmissions, my 'Bird had a speedo sender. Mustangs with WC T5s had a cable for the speedo and a speed sensor for the EFI and/or cruise control.
The 5 speed ECU for the 87-88 cars was LA-2 and LA-3 respectively. (snip) These two ECU's were deemed to have a faster processor over the 86 and older. I'm not sure what the SVO ECU had, but I believe the 5 speed version was rated at 205 HP VS 190 HP for the 87-88 T/C 5 speed. Probably a bit of apples to oranges comparison given various parts differences.
There are also LB_ ECUs that came in the same TurboCoupes and they are interchangeabl e with the LA2/3. SVOs all had the older P-series computers.
Only the '85.5 SVO was rated at 205hp. It was derated to 200hp (on paper only) for the actual '86 model year so the '86 GT 5.0 would look more powerful. The '84-85 SVO was only rated at 175hp. There are actually a lot of differences for such a short-lived, low-production car. The SVO's story is a neat one and fascinating, but ultimately tragic.
Putting an SVO T3 turbo on an '87-88 Turbo Coupe would effectively upgrade the engine to complete '85.5 SVO spec. Putting an intercooler on my '86 engine would do the same. A stock non-intercooled 2.3T at 15psi is good for about 170rwhp.
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OK, I'm not trying to dispute here, I'm just confused. I had a friend with an Auto 87 TC and recall him saying the HP was limited to about 165 or 175. His 87 Auto car also had a single exhaust as opposed to the dual of the 5 speed. If the LB computers are compatible (and by that I mean plug N' play equal HP) with the LA's where does the different HP ratings between the Auto and 5 speed cars come from?
I always thought (by what I read) that the LA-3 (and "P_" SVO series) were the most desirable ECU to have. I have shied away from the LB series believing they were less desirable that the LA's. And, I even sold a LA-2 thinking that the LA-3's were better. All a mote point now, as I have an LA-3 in the car and two more LA-3's stashed in my "private reserve." But now I'm feeling a bit foolish if my LA-3 ONLY quests were being unnecessarily persnickety.
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This is the turbo boost specification for all the various 2.3T models. It says boost was allowed to hit 15psi in 1st and 2nd gear for the '87-88 TC, but there was no way that the ECU could know what gear you were in.
http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf (http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf)
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Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. However, it pretty much comes back to what I had understood:
1. "On vehicles with a manual transmission (the LA ECU), with the switch in the PREMIUM position, boost is controlled by the EEC-IV processor, and can go as high as 16 psi depending on rpm, vehicle, speed, and transmission gear selection.
2. "On automatic transmission vehicles (the LB ECU), switch position does not make any difference. The maximum boost is controlled by the EEC-IV processor at all times. Maximum boost pressures on automatic transmission vehicles vary between 6 and 11 psi depending on rpm and vehicle speed.
This is why I'm confused about the LA and LB ECU being interchangeabl e. I can't see how the LB ECU limiting to between 6-11 psi would be as capable horsepower wise as the LA that can go as high as 16 psi.
Also the **** seems to be a notation for the overboost alarm (it appears in that column) rather than an ECU control of the boost in various stated RPM ranges. That part of what Ford presents is confusing because even if it were to be debated that **** was ECU boost control or an overboost alarm point how would it be known what gear the manual transmission is in regardless of the position one takes???
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Are you guys keeping the premium switch, or bypassing it?
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I have kept my premium switch. Without it engaged the ECU works at lower boost levels for "Regular" fuel. I'm sure you can hardwire it as long as you always bought premium fuel. For whatever reason Ford has a relay in the switch wiring system.
As far as I know 65SC is running an aftermarket system and I think it completely bypasses the EEC - IV system. His inclination is on a good dose of power where as my goal was to economically transfer over the '88 T/C system "as/is."
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I think I'm going to keep mine as well, just switch the switch to something that matches my style more. Something more toggle-ish.
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Just so I could have gauges I quickly made a gauge mount out of a 2X4 and some strips of wood for the T/C gauges. As things go, I'm still using it and then eventually tacked on the Premium switch. Not ideal, but functional. I have too many cars to perfect just one. I've got the three pod factory gauge set that mounts in the heater control area, but that is on my "some day" list.
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I would have kept the octane switch if I was using an EEC.
Thanks for the link. It explains a lot. However, it pretty much comes back to what I had understood:
1. "On vehicles with a manual transmission (the LA ECU), with the switch in the PREMIUM position, boost is controlled by the EEC-IV processor, and can go as high as 16 psi depending on rpm, vehicle, speed, and transmission gear selection.
That just means that the octane switch being set on 'regular' will lock out the ECU's ability to raise boost. (Incidentally it pulls some ignition timing as well.)
2. "On automatic transmission vehicles (the LB ECU), switch position does not make any difference. The maximum boost is controlled by the EEC-IV processor at all times. Maximum boost pressures on automatic transmission vehicles vary between 6 and 11 psi depending on rpm and vehicle speed.
This is why I'm confused about the LA and LB ECU being interchangeabl e. I can't see how the LB ECU limiting to between 6-11 psi would be as capable horsepower wise as the LA that can go as high as 16 psi.
That's because absolute boost numbers aren't dictated by the ECU. The wastegate actuator is what sets the minimum boost pressure and the bleed orifice in the boost control solenoid circuit is what sets the maximum boost pressure. All the ECU does is switch between high and low, which is why an LB3 can be used in place of an LA3
Also the **** seems to be a notation for the overboost alarm (it appears in that column) rather than an ECU control of the boost in various stated RPM ranges. That part of what Ford presents is confusing because even if it were to be debated that **** was ECU boost control or an overboost alarm point how would it be known what gear the manual transmission is in regardless of the position one takes???
I figured it out in typing this reply...the ECU determines transmission gear based on signals from the vehicle speed sensor and engine RPM.
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So, it seems one should be careful what bleed orifice they use if they are mix/matching parts because a little, tiny hole can sure make a difference. Which, BTW I assume the boost can be altered simply using (making) a smaller orifice? This seems rather simple and cheap over the more expensive boost controls.
The speed control and the engine RPM likely do make sense, but it must have a wide, delayed range given the action of gear changes and tire slippage.
For those of us who forgo the speed sensor for the manual speedometer, do you think there is any adverse effect to the ignition/fuel/boost the ECU is allowing? There are some Tee speedometer drives out there (I have one for a Halda Twinmaster) if I need to reestablish it.
Lastly, what is your take on the **** referring only to the overboost alarm. http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf (http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf) If you look at the larger table (83-86) the notation at the bottom definately is stating such saying "pressure warning." It is my inclination to see it as such for both (also given the column it appears in) and not an indicator of actual boost levels under and above certain RPM's.
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So, it seems one should be careful what bleed orifice they use if they are mix/matching parts because a little, tiny hole can sure make a difference. Which, BTW I assume the boost can be altered simply using (making) a smaller orifice? This seems rather simple and cheap over the more expensive boost controls.
It is cheap and it does work, but I hear that small changes to the bleed diameter result in large changes to boost. A smaller orifice will decrease the maximum boost, BTW.
The speed control and the engine RPM likely do make sense, but it must have a wide, delayed range given the action of gear changes and tire slippage.
I think the powertrain engineers figured that there wouldn't be any wheelspin with a 3400lb+ chassis and that if there was, ramping up the boost would only make it worse. It's my understanding that boost was limited below 4000rpm in order to preserve the transmissions.
For those of us who forgo the speed sensor for the manual speedometer, do you think there is any adverse effect to the ignition/fuel/boost the ECU is allowing? There are some Tee speedometer drives out there (I have one for a Halda Twinmaster) if I need to reestablish it.
The ECU probably falls back to some default behavior if it detects a VSS failure, but I don't know what that behavior is.
Lastly, what is your take on the **** referring only to the overboost alarm. http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf (http://beta.askatech.com/askatechlive/aatfileshare/references/fasttrack/f023.pdf) If you look at the larger table (83-86) the notation at the bottom definately is stating such saying "pressure warning." It is my inclination to see it as such for both (also given the column it appears in) and not an indicator of actual boost levels under and above certain RPM's.
It seems to indicate what the nominal boost levels are under which conditions although it is not at all clear. The overboost buzzer is typically tripped by a pressure switch, not the ECU, which would explain why I've never heard of one that triggered below ~17-18psi.
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Stripped the motor down to the block and head on the exhaust side. It came apart more gracefully than the other motors. Pretty clean for a driver too. Been tagging every plug as I go, and some hoses. Will strip down the other side tomorrow and tag more wires. Can't wait to start the loom separations... not. I have some nice diagrams though, and it is a mostly isolated system, just bundled with SO MUCH other stuff.
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After pulling out the power steering pump and associated bracketry, I remembered that I don't want another hydraulic system on the pinto, so I'm hunting for the bellhousing and fork to run a cable.
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When I dissected my '88 harness I laid it out on the patio and spread it out like it is located in the car. The biggest problem I had was when a wire color was used for multiple purposes. It would branch off in multiple directions and I'd have to chase it 4 or 5 different places. A wire to the VAM may go through the TPS and other places (as an example, not exact) before it gets to the ECU. There is a resistor wire in the steering column. It says specifically on it "do not cut" but you have to to get it out. I never changed its length, but I did solder it. No other turbo swap person has ever mentioned it so maybe it is less critical than implied. There are also diodes imbedded in the harness. I can't recall if they have any function for engine management.
As I said before I used the T/C steering column, fuse box, relay box, wiper box and cruise control box. So, that added significantly to the problem. My T/C also had ride control and ABS and those computers took a connector similar to the ECU (meaning many, many wires). Be careful about the grounds. They are soldered mid harness and branch all over the place. I'm pretty sure the only thing going towards the back of the car is the fuel pump wiring (Primarily a Pink/black wire I recall). I highly recommend you keep the shut off switch.
All the best. If you are doing just the engine management, while not easy, it should be far simpler than the route I took.
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Can I come use your patio? Aahahahaaa... I'm just stripping out the engine management systems. And maybe the power seat circuit, I may be putting those seats in too. Could be the most comfortable car seats I've ever rested my cheeks on!
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I liked the T/C seats a lot too. And thus, installed them in my Pinto. They do seem different though. I'm 6' tall and long waisted (sitting I'm about as tall as someone 6'4"). I found that the power seat mechanism created too much of a problem height wise and mounted them to the Pinto rails. The seats are very tight side to side and it makes pulling out the difficult Pinto seat belt even harder. Here is a link to what I did.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11742.msg75729#msg75729
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The biggest problem I had was when a wire color was used for multiple purposes. It would branch off in multiple directions and I'd have to chase it 4 or 5 different places. A wire to the VAM may go through the TPS and other places (as an example, not exact) before it gets to the ECU. There is a resistor wire in the steering column. It says specifically on it "do not cut" but you have to to get it out. I never changed its length, but I did solder it. No other turbo swap person has ever mentioned it so maybe it is less critical than implied.
That was a PITA with mine too. Grounds went every which way and weren't always the same color (to be fair, most were yellow...or was it orange?) and some +12v wires branched every which way. Many were covered with melted tape adhesive. I remember the coil wires being daisy-chained to a bunch of other junk like HVAC or emissions sensors.
There are also diodes imbedded in the harness. I can't recall if they have any function for engine management.
Yes they do. There's one for the idle valve that is reverse-biased so it protects the ECU driver from inductive kick when the valve is switched off. All the other solenoids and relays that are controlled by transistors have a flyback diode somewhere for that purpose.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-06%2020.42.38.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-06%2020.42.38.jpg.html)
Getting there. What's the deal with the fuel line connectors at the fuel rail? How do they disconnect. I removed the clip, bit I didn't get any further than that with them.
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The clips are just a redundant safety feature; there is a garter spring inside the [spring-lock] connector that you have to release with a special tool in order separate them.
I found this video in a Google search:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf8D0dOtv0k
Mine has Bundy fittings with plastic (one-time use) safety clips since it's pre-'87. I like the spring-locks better though.
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There is an orange ground wire at the turbo and another gray ground I believe near the coil. This is all from memory and I'm sleepy so accept this advice with caution.
Oh, yes, and periodically mutter a "Thank You" that you have a donor car to pull all this stuff from. :-)
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The orange one on the turbo is the oxygen sensor ground, so yeah, orange must have been grounds.
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The clips are just a redundant safety feature; there is a garter spring inside the [spring-lock] connector that you have to release with a special tool in order separate them.
I found this video in a Google search:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf8D0dOtv0k
Mine has Bundy fittings with plastic (one-time use) safety clips since it's pre-'87. I like the spring-locks better though.
Ahhh. I see. Thank you sir.
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Is there a part number for that tool? Or at least a name for it?
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I always left the line at the rail alone and just disconnect further down at the solid fuel line. The plastic clip comes out the side and then it either pulls off, or possibly a small screwdriver helps to remove a "snap" type of retainer. I have a vague recollection that the supply/return line connectors are different and each requires one of the methods???
The tool you want (assuming you elect to remove the circular spring clip at the rail) is used for auto air conditioning. They come either as a plastic, stand alone size, or as a two sized piece die cast part that has a center pivot like pliers. The few times I've used them I had trouble. I eventually cut a short piece of PVC pipe in half, slide the halves into the area and pivoted the pieces off the raised edge of the hose connector. This forced the spring outward and allowed the removal. If your hose doesn't have a raised area tape or thick wire would probably work. You just want the plastic halves to pivot so they will force the circular spring outward. Large pliers or a hose clamp will work if finger pressure isn't enough. I had to alter (thin) the halves diameter somewhat to fit. Just be forewarned that even with a manufactured tool it can be frustrating if it isn't the exact right size.
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Got a tool like the one in the video. Worked great! So how are you guys addressing the dipstick issue? I'm assuming you moved it too, when you put the pinto oil pan on. And did you drill a bung for the oil sensor in the pinto oil pan, or delete the sensor?
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Glad the removal tool worked.
The dip stick move is simple. I did a slight modification to "tuck in" the stick to the intake manifold (but at the moment I can't remember specifically what it was).
Yes, I just did without the oil level sensor (that is what you are referring to?). At least in a junkyard getting one of the two star bolts off off the oil pick up can be a real pain. The T/C oil pan gasket isn't cheap ($25-$30) but I reused it and don't have issues.
Man, this is really having me relive my project. You forget all the stuff you needed to acquire even having the donor car - oil pan, oil pick up, engine mounts, bellcrank bellhousing, clutch pedal, clutch cable, external fuel pump, radiator, electric cooling fan, smaller heater motor. Then there are the modifications to the PS inner fender, trans tunnel, trans mount, VAM mount, heater motor, radiator cradle, motor mounts, steering rack (clearance), top of intake/throttle body (clearance) windshield washer tank, fuel and return lines - routing the wiring and mounting everything etc. And then I made it more complicated with with the T/C steering column and fuse box! It's time for a nap just thinking about it all.
At least you have a 76 which makes the motor mounts simple. I had my engine in/out seven times before committing to welding the mount. I recall 65SC said he did about the same.
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Glad the removal tool worked.
The dip stick move is simple. I did a slight modification to "tuck in" the stick to the intake manifold (but at the moment I can't remember specifically what it was).
Yes, I just did without the oil level sensor (that is what you are referring to?). At least in a junkyard getting one of the two star bolts off off the oil pick up can be a real pain. The T/C oil pan gasket isn't cheap ($25-$30) but I reused it and don't have issues.
Man, this is really having me relive my project. You forget all the stuff you needed to acquire even having the donor car - oil pan, oil pick up, engine mounts, bellcrank bellhousing, clutch pedal, clutch cable, external fuel pump, radiator, electric cooling fan, smaller heater motor. Then there are the modifications to the PS inner fender, trans tunnel, trans mount, VAM mount, heater motor, radiator cradle, motor mounts, steering rack (clearance), top of intake/throttle body (clearance) windshield washer tank, fuel and return lines - routing the wiring and mounting everything etc. And then I made it more complicated with with the T/C steering column and fuse box! It's time for a nap just thinking about it all.
At least you have a 76 which makes the motor mounts simple. I had my engine in/out seven times before committing to welding the mount. I recall 65SC said he did about the same.
It's all worth it though. And fun for the whole family. Hopefully you don't go full senile on me, I'm sure I'll be asking for many more wisdom nuggets as I progress. And Thanks to you guys for all the help. This would be much less enjoyable if I was going in blind.
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On the dip stick subject, you didn't move to the deep end of the pinto pan?
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On the dip stick subject, you didn't move to the deep end of the pinto pan?
Not to Hijack, but I've been in the Deep end of my Pan for some time, and I'm sure I've been called a Dipstick too! ;D
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Since it was about seven years ago I've forgotten exactly what I did. But here are pictures of the installation. As you can see in the lower view image the stick goes inside the motor mount area, but towards the back. As best I recall this is the T/C stick and tube. There might be a height difference between the front and back holes. With the pans off I would measure where it is at presently and then again after it is moved to ensure that "full" is really full. The upper view image shows how I tucked it close to the intake just to get it out of the way. I'd assume if you just used the Pinto stick and tube in the forward hole everything would be fine.
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There ought to be two dipstick holes in the block on the driver's side. I did almost exactly what Wittsend did as far as placement. The original dipstick hole rearward of the oil cooler will have to be plugged and the front one will have a welch plug in that needs to be knocked-out.
I had hoped to reuse the plug, but it shot into the grass and leaves beside my workspace when I punched it out from the sump side. :P
I also used a C-Line 7qt pan. The dipstick reads a quart+ low when there are seven in the sump. :o
On a side note, I don't think the low oil sensor is tied to the ECU, so disconnecting it shouldn't pose a problem. Most of them leak anyway.
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The juicy circuit laden fruit, fresh picked!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-08%2016.50.41.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-08%2016.50.41.jpg.html)
Something is missing...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-08%2016.48.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-08%2016.48.59.jpg.html)
Oh, there it is.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-08%2016.49.35.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-08%2016.49.35.jpg.html)
And the little gem I found under the boot.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-09%2020.16.30.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-09%2020.16.30.jpg.html)
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Ahhh..., yes, fond memories. Why is it when it is someone else's wires they seem so few? LOL And, yes, I did cut the cradle support to get the engine out. A salvage title and a rat in the HVAC system saw to that.
Nice find under the shifter boot!
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Well I didn't pull the steering column looms, so it should be less than yours. I pulled out some extras along with what I need, just to simplify removal. I'll trim that out during install. I got to have me some fun "disassembling" the inner dash/instrument supports... with a hammer! Having a little trouble finding the right bell housing/fork setups. Anyone got an extra one they want to part with?
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I'm sure the bellhousing etc. are out there but it may take some hunting. While I limit myself to "self serve" yards finding anything Turbo Coupe of late has been extremely difficult. I did my swap in mid-2008 and at that time the two yards I frequent probably had 3-5 T/C's every month I would visit. Within six months of starting the project it dropped to 1-2 T/C's per visit.
In the last two years I believe I have found 1 T/C. that car was an '88. Great for the LA-3 ECU, but it would have the hydraulic clutch which the Pinto swaps don't need. These yards aren't out in the middle of nowhere either. They serve the western side of Los Angeles, the second largest city in the country.
So, again, another reason to be thankful for having the donor car.
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I GOT A BELLHOUSING FROM A 93 MUSTANG 2.3 THAT WAS CABLE OPERATED
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I GOT A BELLHOUSING FROM A 93 MUSTANG 2.3 THAT WAS CABLE OPERATED
If I can't find one local in the next day or two, I'll be hitting you up.
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JUST LET ME KNOW.IM NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH IT
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Ordered the bellhousing and fork from a reputable parts hoarder! Thanks PintoCrazed. I dug out my ol' 100 amp mig to get ready for the sheet metal work on the pinto. I think I can get most of my welding done while keeping the pinto drivable, cutting the down time for it by a couple of days.
Is the electric speedo something I need for the engine management system? I want to use my mechanical gauge.
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I'm about to scrap the rest of the tbird. I have everything I want off of it. Is there anything any of you want off of it before I do? No charge, just cover the shipping.
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YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ROB THE STUFF OFF THE BACK IF IT HAS REAR DISK
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YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ROB THE STUFF OFF THE BACK IF IT HAS REAR DISK
Already pulled and sold. I do wish it would have fit the pinto.
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Is the electric speedo something I need for the engine management system? I want to use my mechanical gauge.
No, but it has come under discussion of late how the ECU determines what gear you are in and adjusts the ECU boost control. 65SC thought that the speedo pulse counter in the trans measured against the RPM was able to determine that. So, you should make sure you have that. It is not that we have arrived at a solution or if it is even really needed, but the counter is good to have. There are Tee drives available that would function both at the same time.
I'd also look at everything that has a form of attachment. As an example I mounted my VAM in the forward section of the passenger wheel well. The turbo inlet points in that direction and at least on the '73 space is limited. I wound up using a highly modified version of the T/C VAM mount to locate it. (Images - bracket, bracket, where it was mounted) Note also the modification to the bumper mount for the (stock) air cleaner to avoid blocking the inlet.
For what it's worth I stripped my '88 of EVERYTHING but the doors, glass, trunk front suspension and welded in the Pinto rear. I made a pipe up with an old steering wheel to steer it. Most yards wanted $100+ to haul it away, but I found someone to take it for free. Having the Pink Slip helps with that. I sold everything else for about $250. If you have Ride Control I hear functional shocks and actuators can bring some cash. So, you might want to look over on Ebay and see what sells well. Sometimes it is the little things that bring the most.
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The hearse is coming for the tbird corpse today. A moment of silence for the sacrifice it made for my heavy foot...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-05%2013.47.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-05%2013.47.40.jpg.html)
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The moment observed.
My T/C was more than a donor. It was my daily driver for 10 years. I saw the car in the Recycler and dash over to see it. The woman let me drive it around the block and I was sold. It had been hit in the rear and bent at the wheel wells. But, at $1,500 when the going rate was $6,000 it had "me" written all over it. I immediately started talking purchase with her and she said that someone else had just called and offered her $2,000 for the car. So, I went home disappointed, but told her if it didn't sell to call me first.
About an hour and a half later my wife suggested I call her back. Reluctantly and with about 10% hope I did. Her husband answered, said to hold on a minute and she got on the phone. She was PO-ed because "Mr. $2000" was now trying to dicker the car down to $1,500. Even though he was at $1,600 she disliked him so much that right then and there said she would let me have the car for $1,500 and sent him away.
It took me about 6 months and $300 to make it road worthy. It even survived being on jackstands during the Northridge earthquake. At some point in the time I owned it my wife was driving and someone hit the passenger door. Their insurance gave us $1,400 and I eventually found a color matching door for $30. when I eventually gutted the car I sold unused parts for about $300. So, in the end this 10 year daily driver cost me $100 total! And that isn't even counting the $600+ in parts that went into the Pinto.
So, yes I can have much reverence for the T/C donor cars of the Pinto world.
Posted on page 3 but fitting here again "Dearly beloved we are gathered....":
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So being fairly fresh to efi world, I find I need some input on specs to look for in an aftermarket 12v fuel pump. How many gph or gpm? And how much pressure to run the factory setup optimally.
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So being fairly fresh to efi world, I find I need some input on specs to look for in an aftermarket 12v fuel pump. How many gph or gpm? And how much pressure to run the factory setup optimally.
A factory engine at factory boost should have factory fuel pressure, which is about 39-42psi with the vacuum line disconnected and plugged. Raising fuel pressure will cause the pump output to drop. In addition to increasing fuel where it's needed, it increases fueling everywhere it's not. I would like to eventually have 300+hp and plan to keep the stock regulator.
I'm using a Walbro GSL-392HP (HP = high pressure) external pump that flows 255Lph. It will support ~400whp+, but can be used at stock power (like I currently have) if the regulator and return side of the fuel system aren't a restriction. I'm using the stock 2.3T regulator and Pinto tank vent line as a return and there is no problem controlling pressure. Stock pumps are no more than 110Lph as I recall. 150-190 would be more than enough for a stock 2.3T.
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As recommended I hear a lot of people using the Walbro pumps. So, it would be a good choice.
If you are going to stay stock and cost is a consideration some of the Ford F-series trucks and vans had an external pump. And, it is a pump rated directly for their fuel injection. It is not one of those pumps that just gets fuel from the tank to a forward mounted higher pressure pump like Ford used on some of their vehicles. While I got mine a while back it was only $11 at U-Pick Parts. National chain dismantler Pick A Part has them listed at $19.99. If you go this route you will have to look under a lot of trucks. I typically found them under the drives door area clamped to the frame rail. The best I can pin point the years is roughly mid 80's to early 90's - as a guess.
As you can see in the picture I just used regular line with a hose clamp on the inlet side and the T/C filter and line on the pressure output side.
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It will support ~400whp+, but can be used at stock power (like I currently have) if the regulator and return side of the fuel system aren't a restriction.
By that, do you mean that the limitations are in the flow rate of that part of the system? And thus, should be what dictates my fuel delivery needs? Also, am I looking for a self regulated pump, or does the fpr do that job, or does it require both?
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What I meant was that if the pump outpaces the return leg of the fuel system, then the regulator won't be able to lower the pressure enough under high manifold vacuum. The little Pinto tank vent line (1/4in?) works fine, at least for me.
You don't need a regulated pump; the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail does that job. Regulated pumps are usually used in-tank for more modern returnless (aka "dead head") fuel systems.
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Gotcha. I think I know what I'm looking for now. Have you tried any pumps from other cars that have similar needs? As in something I could pull at the yard?
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An F150/250/etc. frame-mounted pump like Wittsend has is the only one I know of, but surely there are others. Early 2.3T cars had two pumps, but I don't know that the external one is suitable for use without the accompanying low-pressure lift pump in the tank.
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Have you tried any pumps from other cars that have similar needs? As in something I could pull at the yard?
If you skipped over post 146 have a look.
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If you skipped over post 146 have a look.
I must have! I think you posted a few seconds before I did, and I just missed that altogether. That will get me going until I can get something shiny.
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And what is the advantage/disadvantage of running a blow off valve? I don't like the noise they make, but is it worth the annoyance? Or just a gold chain wearin', faux hawk sportin', coffee can tail pipe havin' toy for the dig-me-disco boys?
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Just from reading. When under heavy load and the throttle is quickly shut, a large back pressure develops causing turbo problems (the blow off valve releases this back pressure). This usually is only a concern with a large intercooler (big reservoir). Ford did not feel the need for a blow off valve with their Lima turbo offerings (small or no intercoolers). If you are going with a front mount intercooler, a blow off valve would probably be good. To minimize the noise, use a blow off bypass valve that releases the pressure to the turbo inlet (after air the filter and air meter if used). If using a pressure release valve, the blow off bypass version is needed if using a air flow meter so all air used by the engine is measured. The standard blow off valve version just releases the air to the local atmosphere (unmetered), creating the unmuffled noise.
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Blowoff valves also often leak when manifold vacuum is high which can let unfiltered, unmetered air into the intake stream. Loud blowoff valves developed into a market segment of their own simply from the riceboy factor. I guess if their factory turbo is too small to hear, they compensate in other ways...
Borg Warner's top-shelf EFR (Engineered For Racing) turbos have a bypass valve integrated right into the compressor housing. There's a reason they and just about every OEM out there do it that way.
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Yeah, I think I talked myself out of that idea. I'm trying to decide on which pulley system to go with now(v-belt or serpentine). I think the alt. pulleys will change over so I can run the serpentine with my pinto alt. bracket and original alt. Or I can switch all the v-pulleys to the turbo, but I'm not certain that the timing marks will match, not certain they won't either. I like the idea of the serpentine, and it seems less of hassle. And maybe trimming all the extra pulleys that won't have a belt on them.
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I'm also looking at clutch options. I'm thinking a stage 2, don't think I need more, but am I wrong? Is a stage 3 to stiff for a daily driver? And what are the best brands to look at?
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I'm running a stock Turbo Coupe replacement clutch in my car and it feels a lot like a typical stock clutch, but bites harder than the tires can. A Pinto is going to be a lot easier on it than the 3400-3600lb 'Bird, especially with some gear and short tires.
The clutch was branded as Luk, but the disc said Valeo who has been an OEM supplier to Ford for a long time.
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The n/a motors have a different size clutch, right? I thought I picked up on that somewhere. Otherwise I would pull the stage 2 off that motor.
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I recall someone saying that are actually the same clutch. When I was at the yard getting my bellcrank bellhousing (years ago) I noticed that the clutch disc was decent (A Valero). A few days later I got a disc at Autozone and frankly it was thinner that the used one at the yard. A few days after that I was passing the yard went in, and sure enough the disc and pressure plate were still there. I popped then up on the counter, the guy said $8.00 and I yanked my wallet out so fast it probably broke the sound barrier.
Like 65SC said the tires are weaker than the clutch. With the bellcrank the pedal is light and very progressive. In my option the smoothness of engagement makes it an ideal setup for teaching someone how to drive a stick shift. Perhaps if your incline to dump the clutch..., less so. For me who likes to impress my passengers with a gradual but steady increase in throttle/boost from 40 MPH in 3rd gear clutch bite is irrelevant.
Regarding the Luk clutch, I put one in my old Mazda 323. Luk doesn't seem to necessarily to be a manufacturer, but rather a compiler of parts. My Luk clutch had a disc from Mexico, a P- plate from South Africa, a throw-out bearing from Japan and the alignment tool was from right here in the USA. Regardless my searching reviews showed people liked them and I's say they have a good reputation.
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I'm pulling the n/a motor this weekend, so I'll know soon.
I think I'm going to replace the voltage regulator before the pinto assimilates the tbird harness. It's got what may be the original v.r. in it still. Spiky as hell!
I got the serpentine water pump pulley to separate gracefully, leaving only the alternator grooves. Just looks cleaner. The alt. pulley looks like a straight swap over, to the pinto alt.. I am concerned that with the added dc draw of the engine management, 12v fuel pump and 12v fan, I may want to get a stronger alternator. Any thoughts about that?
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Hopefully 65 SC will chime in. He put an upgrade alternator in, but I'm not versed on it to speak. With a wagon I opted to put the battery in the drivers side, front. I used the factory alternator, but made my own bracket out of bed frame angle iron (the factory T/C bracket is large and ugly). My goal was to get the alternator as close to the engine as possible as I needed the clearance for the battery. The bracket needed a few notches as I'm sure you can see near the alternator and the timing belt cover. The wrap around on the water pump is minimal, but I have not had slippage problems.
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I went with a Ford 3G 130A alternator with an integrated voltage regulator...fi xed two potential problems there. System voltage doesn't even sag at idle when the fan comes on, but the dual v-belts do slip occasionally. I think the stock 2.3T alternator was about 85A.
Luckily I snagged a Pinto alternator bracket set so I can 1.) move the alternator where it ought to be, 2.) Install the A/C compressor, 3) tighten the belts more, and 4.) fit a 90° rotated upper intake without hitting a high-mount alternator.
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I have another issue I'm mulling over now, too. Is the fan control from the computer a progressive two part circuit, to run the primary and secondary fan? Or do they both get the same signal? And is it necessary to let the ecu control the fan. I plan to run a single flexlite type fan, and I think I would prefer to run an independent adjustable thermal on it, if the computer doesn't have any objections.
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The secondary fan as best I know it for when the A/C is used only. I am not using a secondary fan though I am running an electric (Pusher) fan off the primary side using the factory relay box. I do not think the ECU is effected. Likely the temp sender provides a signal to the ECU and when hot enough that triggers the fan relay. It might throw a code (if it can even detect the fan not spinning), but I doubt it throws the ECU into the "limp home" mode. I say that because if the temp stays low enough the fan never runs. And, my experience is that unless you are in Stop N Go it doesn't come on. I'm not sure why many eliminate the relay box. It is already wired in and works for the fuel pump also.
Relay box on the left (black box/white label, mounted just ahead of the VAM hose).
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I was thinking about the stand alone fan system for 2 reasons, the adjustability and I don't know what temp the ecu triggers.
On the oil pan subject again... If I remove the oil pump to get the pick-up tube off, do I need to prime it upon re-install? And should I just replace the oil pump while I'm in there? I would have no problem if I knew more about the history and mileage of this motor, but I worry about changing oil pressure and blowing out seals. Some motor don't like new oil pumps until rebuild time.
The pinto dip stick should sit at the same relative height, to the pan, in either block, as long as it's in the front hole, right? They look like they are about the same height, but I haven't pulled the n/a yet to measure it too.
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Oil pump replaced and pinto pick up tube installed. Had to cut off the bolt end that was sticking out of the main bearing cap to hold the tbird pick up tube, to get the pinto pan on there. I could have just replaced it with another bolt without that on it, but I didn't want to take a chance on queering the bearing.
Made a discovery, on the tbird dip stick there are 2 marias, as the pinto has has only one. If you were to remove the outer maria on the tbird stick, it then lines up from the 1 maria of each to the oil level lines of both the sticks. So either can work in the front hole, and be accurate.
Got a new center force clutch ordered.
My pulley quandary goes on. I need to replace my water pump if I go with the v belt, as the tbird pump has smaller diameter shaft. Or do some "adjustments" to the alt. and brackets to run the serpentines.
Got the engine de-greased, and the fender wall cut out where the battery used to live. I'll cut a template and then a patch, weld it in place, do the firewall mod and a little painting. Moving along pretty well, for me anyways.
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An update with pics.
Look what I caught!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-23%2012.24.53.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-23%2012.24.53.jpg.html)
Cherry picked.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-23%2017.27.04.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-23%2017.27.04.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-23%2017.27.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-23%2017.27.36.jpg.html)
Hole with template. Notice the ugly firewall seam?!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-26%2011.05.27.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-26%2011.05.27.jpg.html)
Much more better!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-26%2016.55.09.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-26%2016.55.09.jpg.html)
Got to cut the fender patch and put a couple folds on it, then run some stitches everywhere, and see what happens. Might redo most of the core support in square tube. Looks like the bottom squished up pretty good. Can't have that. Watch my ocd twitch!
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-26%2016.55.26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-26%2016.55.26.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-27%2017.20.14.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-27%2017.20.14.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-27%2020.48.26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-27%2020.48.26.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-27%2020.22.47.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-27%2020.22.47.jpg.html)
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Got the alternator bracket shaved and mocked up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-28%2019.02.06.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-28%2019.02.06.jpg.html)
I got the t5 installed and the clutch cable run. Other than drilling the cross brace for the trans. mount and opening up the shifter hole a skoash, it was an easy fit. I am going to ad some more sheet metal to the back end of the shifter hole, to center it back around the shifter mounting plate.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-28%2015.05.16.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-28%2015.05.16.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-05-28%2015.05.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-05-28%2015.05.40.jpg.html)
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The removed panel look very similar to what I did. I used a little Bondo to blend the new panel. I was apprehensive to do so, but 7 years later nothing had cracked or melted.
How is your clearance on the boost control actuator? I curved my panel downward and I still barely have any clearance.
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What's ironic is that the smaller IHI turbo you guys are running has less clearance than the larger T3 that I'm using which has a larger wastegate actuator. The difference is that the T3's WGA is tucked between the turbo and engine.
In fact, I think it would have been unnecessary to cut up the inner fender of my car. Would have saved a lot of work...
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That is true. You can rotate the turbo intake housing around and move it a bit..., but then that throws off the alignment with the intercooler. To that end I feel I have some premature wastegate bleed from doing so. I can get full boost, but I think the exhaust is slipping by on the way to getting there. I should probably just cut a notch so I can set it where it needs to be and stop trying to be so "cute" with my dedicated (but movement restricted) are I fabricated for it.
I also have a feeling the 87-88 T/C's probably had the turbo mounted lower to make room for the intercooler. But, not having anything to compare to it is only a guess.
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Everything on the turbo side is effectively interchangeabl e with the turbo/manifold/intercooler from an SVO (only ever equipped with a T3), so I think any difference in orientation would be from the T3's larger compressor housing.
Stock '87-88 'Birds make full boost by ~2200-2400rpm in higher gears, so I would expect 2400-2800 in a lighter Pinto with shorter tires and/or more gear.
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The removed panel look very similar to what I did. I used a little Bondo to blend the new panel. I was apprehensive to do so, but 7 years later nothing had cracked or melted.
How is your clearance on the boost control actuator? I curved my panel downward and I still barely have any clearance.
I'm actually going patch it back in flat and flush, but from the frame, up to about 5"-6", I'm going to fab an access panel that can be pulled from the wheel side. Just through the assembly process, I decided this is a must. No clearance issues with my planned panel fitting.
The hood... well I'm just glad I have a crappy hood with a patch over an old air cleaner hole to work with, cuz I'ts getting another hole too.
I have the wiring all in place and ready to pull back out to tape and sleeve for final install. Got the exhaust tied in to my previous 2.5 system.
My clutch is on back order though. Centerforce is on sale right now, so shelves are sparse. I Got a new heater motor, but it's not what was supposed to be.
Do any of you know who makes u-joints for building mix and match drivelines? And who makes this speedo T for a wc t5?
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You might be better off using a cable and VSS from another car like an '87-93 Mustang. They used a cable for the speedo and had a separate VSS for the EFI/cruise control that it fit into on the trans end. I just don't know if the speedo end would fit the Pinto cluster nor if the pulses per revolution is the same.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/pyi-speedsensor-8793.html (http://www.americanmuscle.com/pyi-speedsensor-8793.html)
The type of u-joint for mating different yoke sizes is called a combination u-joint. The most likely one you would need is a 1310/1330 combination and they are widely available from many manufacturers.
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The type of u-joint for mating different yoke sizes is called a combination u-joint. The most likely one you would need is a 1310/1330 combination and they are widely available from many manufacturers.
So that size would tie in the yolk that fit into the wc t5 to the mustangII driveline?
I'm having a hard time not buying a rotated intake and going with a front mount intercooler. The only issue I'm concerned with, is the egr tube. If I delete it, will it have an adverse affect on my motor, or the computers ability to run it correctly? I have the pinto alt. bracket installed, and it's just saying"front mount intercooler... front mount intercooooler. ..".
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I deleted my EGR and can't say I've had any adverse affects from it. That said, I haven't run without it much (my Pinto sees maybe 500 miles a year). My reason for deleting it was not functionality. It was more so that it freed up a lot of space and aesthetically looked better. Some have wondered if it would increase combustion chamber temperatures. At least audibly I can't tell that pinging and detonation is present.
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On my VSS sensor I took off my 90 bronco II and took the cable too, yes it does fit the pinto speedometer,
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So that size would tie in the yolk that fit into the wc t5 to the mustangII driveline?
I don't know what size the '87-88 yoke is. I used the '86 'Bird yoke, which is a 1310. The stock Pinto rear is a 1310 (and so is the MII rear I got), but my drive shaft came from a much later Mustang that had 1330 ends.
I'm having a hard time not buying a rotated intake and going with a front mount intercooler. The only issue I'm concerned with, is the egr tube. If I delete it, will it have an adverse affect on my motor, or the computers ability to run it correctly? I have the pinto alt. bracket installed, and it's just saying"front mount intercooler... front mount intercooooler. ..".
You and me both.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/65ShelbyClone/Public/1972%20Pinto/too_cool_for_cool_zpskqi15is8.jpg)
Except in my case I've already decided to do it. Plus side is that it will help everything fit under the stock hood.
Deleting the EGR won't cause anything to go haywire. The ECU will always report a trouble code pertaining to an EGR fault, but it won't cause a measurable change in how the engine runs. The ECU will pull timing when it detects knock (that you can't hear) as long as the knock sensor is still there. Many report that too much timing gets pulled causing the power to nose-over noticeably and yeah it can, but it's it's keeping things together and is really fairly transparent given the state of technology at the time.
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On my VSS sensor I took off my 90 bronco II and took the cable too, yes it does fit the pinto speedometer,
Brilliant! I'll put that on the next yard list. (is that on a specific model?)
On the egr, I agree it is aesthetically unpleasing. I would be happy to delete it for only that reason.
I am pleased with how much of the new wire and boxes I've been able to keep under the dashboard. I like the uncluttered look. All the relays and computers and such have their own rack up under there now. I managed to keep my glove box too.
Anyone with the wc t5 ever use a more stiff trans mount? The stock one seems just too soft for my taste.
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I'd agree that the trans mount feels too soft. It probably doesn't help that it is 42 years old either. I would guess that there are stiffer urethane mounts available. I'm guessing it is a pretty generic mount design given the 3 speed automatic mount bolted right to a 15 year newer 5 speed.
Regarding the knock sensor, can it be triggered by the engine vibrating on the suspension? I had to notch the rubber on the (passenger side) rack mount and then indent the strap just to get a little clearance on the starter rear bushing. Then or the rearward strap bolt I had to grind off about half the heads thickness for clearance on the bottom of the starter. Even after that I still barely have any clearance. At times, under acceleration you can feel the engine vibrating the car as the engine twists in the mounts. And, it seems to me the power lies flat.
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I used the 'Bird trans mount because the Pinto 4-speed mount was totally different. It has about about as much movement as I would expect stock mounts to have. I can see movement in the shifter in my videos, but it wasn't noticeable while driving.
The old knock sensors that these engine came with are sensitive in a specific frequency range. It is possible to trigger them with impact, but I kind of doubt the engine rubbing on the frame would cause enough to do it, especially if there is not enough "slap" to cause very audible vibration.
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Uh-oh... new issue. I tried to fit the drive line, and it's about an inch to long. So I'm off to the yard to find something in the 45.5" range.
Been a little wet out there, not getting much done.
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I've heard talk of 45.5" Aerostar driveshafts, but but can't confirm it. The C-4 trans/6-3/4" rear driveshaft fit my T-5 trans/8" rear perfectly. Didn't have to swap U-Joints or anything.
I also saw on one of the car shows where the U-Joint mount and shaft were notched (as an alignment indicator). The shaft was then cut, the mounte liberated and re-welded. They said it worked well and didn't re-balance it. My experience has been that if you search enough there is probably a driveshaft out there ready made for your application. I have a '64 Strudebaker Daytona with a '92 GM 700R4 trans. And, wouldn't you know, a driveshaft from a '78 Buick Skylark 4 door fit just fine. So, with that in mind, here's to you "getting the shaft" - and I really mean that in the most considerate way.
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I can't say that aluminum one doesn't sound spiffy. I'd like to find one, and discover it works. But I won't hold my breath. I've shortened a couple shafts before, but I had access to a jig that was made to hold them straight. I figure I'll check a few aerostars (and others)before I cut mine up. Wish I had my yard list together a couple weeks ago on 50% off day.
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The more I read, the more I don't know if it's the best swap to do in the 73 wagon. But it is doable...
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The more I read, the more I don't know if it's the best swap to do in the 73 wagon. But it is doable...
The only major difference (swap wise) between a 71-73 and a 74 and up are the motor mounts and a reduced clearance at the radiator. An electric pusher fan easily solves the radiator clearance problem. If you willing to set the engine 1/4"-1/2" higher and use a low profile hood scoop the clearance issues with the engine go away too. All the other modifications necessary are needed for any year. So, while there are a few more issues with a 71-73 they can be resolved without too much effort.
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The only major difference (swap wise) between a 71-73 and a 74 and up are the motor mounts and a reduced clearance at the radiator. An electric pusher fan easily solves the radiator clearance problem. If you willing to set the engine 1/4"-1/2" higher and use a low profile hood scoop the clearance issues with the engine go away too. All the other modifications necessary are needed for any year. So, while there are a few more issues with a 71-73 they can be resolved without too much effort.
Thanks and that's good to know. It looks like the EFI engine in the 79 is up too high also.
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Keep in mind also that these guys are using engines out of '87-88 Thunderbirds. The upper intake is shorter than those of earlier 2.3T cars (hence the notch in the valve cover). I had a bigger uphill battle fitting an earlier turbo engine in an early Pinto with a 7qt pan. That's why I still haven't sorted out the hood situation.
I can't say that aluminum one doesn't sound spiffy. I'd like to find one, and discover it works. But I won't hold my breath. I've shortened a couple shafts before, but I had access to a jig that was made to hold them straight. I figure I'll check a few aerostars (and others)before I cut mine up. Wish I had my yard list together a couple weeks ago on 50% off day.
You won't find a suitable aluminum drive shaft under an Aerostar unless it's an AWD Aerostar. They weren't common to begin with and many have already been picked by Mustangers thinking they're getting a cheap Ford Motorsport equivalent(it's not). Fortunately just about anything out of a V8/V6 '79-04 Mustang will be about the right length. U-joints could be 1310 or 1330 depending on year and trim level.
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I think I finally have the right heater fan motor ordered. I'm still not sure how it turned into an ordeal.
I have about everything I needed to mock up and make holes/bends/alterations done. Next I'll pull her back apart and do all the welding.
Still haven't got my radiator supports replaced, but I haven't found a rad. I want yet.
Is there a resource to reference ford drive shaft data? I need 45.5" to clear the rear yoke and set in place.
I may have to give up on getting a centerforce clutch any time soon as well. Maybe my parts guys are slacking, but they're not finding anything for me. Those spec clutches have some good reviews, but I've never laid into one myself. And they're not on sale either. I have about a week to figure it out.
The suns coming, and I want to go fast!
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I got the motor and trans. pulled back out. Now comes the fun part... really building it!
Tomorrow I let the sparks fly. Going to weld up the firewall, and gusset the corners a little. Patch the fender well, and put the access panel in. Put some stitches in here and there, just cause it's a good time to. I'm going to fill all the misc. holes I won't be using and doing some core support mods.
I found that the cowl area seam, covered by the fender, was needing some love too. Going to clean up the whole area then re-caulk and paint while I'm in there.
I still need to go to the yard, but that will have to wait till after our little heat wave passes. Still need my clutch too. I may have to just do the whole ebay thing. Ugh.
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I didn't get as much done today as I had hoped. The heat today was whoopin' my... uhm ... fanny? But I did make some progress.
The shifter hole is done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-06%2014.28.34.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-06%2014.28.34.jpg.html)
And the firewall seam is welded and rough ground, still needs to be flap wheeled a little.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-06%2020.03.30.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-06%2020.03.30.jpg.html)
My little clark/tweco hybrid, and the german section.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-06%2014.29.13.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-06%2014.29.13.jpg.html)
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Still too hot to work outside on the pinto, but I got some indoor stuff done.
Got the egr tube to come out gracefully, and plugged it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-08%2019.13.05.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-08%2019.13.05.jpg.html)
And I made a delete plate for the intake.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-08%2019.13.17.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-08%2019.13.17.jpg.html)
Then I got the intake rotated 90 degrees.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-08%2020.56.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-08%2020.56.40.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-08%2021.05.56.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-08%2021.05.56.jpg.html)
I plan to port match the upper and lower, but I ran out of gumption for the day.
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Here's a couple pics of my upper intake mounting thingy's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-09%2017.56.43.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-09%2017.56.43.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-09%2017.54.44.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-09%2017.54.44.jpg.html)
And here's a big brass nut... one of a pair I have!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-09%2020.22.16.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-09%2020.22.16.jpg.html)
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I attacked the core support today. It was pretty wrinkled up at the bottom. I chopped off the bottom where the majority of the damage was and replaced it with some square tube.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-12%2016.23.44.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-12%2016.23.44.jpg.html)
I should get my new clutch tomorrow too.
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Look what santa brought me! Just what I've always wanted. A kuup stage 3 clutch kit!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-13%2012.43.14.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-13%2012.43.14.jpg.html)
And here it is on the flywheel. Shiny!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-13%2018.38.08.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-13%2018.38.08.jpg.html)
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Sweet!
Dwayne :)
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Look what santa brought me! Just what I've always wanted. A kuup stage 3 clutch kit!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-13%2012.43.14.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-13%2012.43.14.jpg.html)
And here it is on the flywheel. Shiny!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-13%2018.38.08.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-13%2018.38.08.jpg.html)
That's really really nice!!!!
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Rattling some some cans and spreading the blackness!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-14%2019.54.54.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-14%2019.54.54.jpg.html)
A better pic of what I did there.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-14%2019.55.28.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-14%2019.55.28.jpg.html)
Oil pan cleaned primed, painted and installed. Oooh, two shiny's!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-14%2019.54.24.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-14%2019.54.24.jpg.html)
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You are moving along well with lots of attention to detail. What's the deal with always having to work on gravel?
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You are moving along well with lots of attention to detail. What's the deal with always having to work on gravel?
I share the shop with a friend who is a glass artist. Particulates are an issue for his work, so we try to keep the dirty projects outside, and this is most definitely a dirty project.
Here's a pic of my timing mark indicator, after removing all that extra metal around it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-15%2018.54.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-15%2018.54.59.jpg.html)
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I finished up the metal work on the firewall. Should be doing the fender wall patch and re-caulking everything tomorrow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-16%2015.56.34.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-16%2015.56.34.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-16%2015.56.09.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-16%2015.56.09.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-16%2015.56.25.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-16%2015.56.25.jpg.html)
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I didn't get the patch prepped yet, but there are about 20 holes not pictured in this picture. And about 25 more not on the other side!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-17%2020.23.26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-17%2020.23.26.jpg.html)
I spent a lot of time cleaning up the seams for new caulk. Mmmm, dry pinto.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-17%2020.23.02.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-17%2020.23.02.jpg.html)
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Treated this area with rust converter. I'll hose it off, use compressed air to dry it, then caulk it all.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-18%2021.01.49.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-18%2021.01.49.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-18%2021.01.57.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-18%2021.01.57.jpg.html)
Got this area today too.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-18%2021.02.33.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-18%2021.02.33.jpg.html)
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Primer done. I'll let it set up tonite and caulk it tomorrow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2013.33.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2013.33.40.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2013.33.16.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2013.33.16.jpg.html)
The patch is tacked, then welded, flush ground and primed. The gap I left is for an access panel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2016.16.40.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2016.16.40.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2017.15.34.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2017.15.34.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2018.30.34.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2018.30.34.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-19%2018.30.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-19%2018.30.59.jpg.html)
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In hindsight, I wish I hadn't gone to all the trouble of "moving" the inner fender. It's necessary for the IHI turbo, but I don't think it would have been for the T3.
I forgot, how much power do you plan on making? I'm looking at that photo of the sintered clutch again thinkin' it's serious business...
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I think I would be happy with 275-300 hp.
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Ah, in a Pinto that should be.....scary. ;D That's enough for low 12s in a 3400lb Mustang....oug ht to be enough for mid-11s in a car that's 800-1000lbs lighter.
(and also about what I'll be shooting for during "phase I" of upgrades) 8)
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Got most of the caulk put on. I used a butyl rubber caulk.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-20%2019.17.46.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-20%2019.17.46.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-20%2019.17.23.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-20%2019.17.23.jpg.html)
I have to do some more degreasing before I can spray the rest, but I had to see how it layed over the primer and caulking. I'm lying. I was just impatient and wanted to see something in gloss black at long last!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-20%2020.14.18.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-20%2020.14.18.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-20%2020.13.43.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-20%2020.13.43.jpg.html)
I'll be huffing rattle cans all day tomorrow.
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Should look good when it's done..
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Ah, in a Pinto that should be.....scary. ;D That's enough for low 12s in a 3400lb Mustang....oug ht to be enough for mid-11s in a car that's 800-1000lbs lighter.
(and also about what I'll be shooting for during "phase I" of upgrades) 8)
Is that fast? (subtle grin)
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Now that you have it all apart and the heater/or AC unit out I would check and see if the sealant around the the large tube under the cowl is leaking , I have over the years seen a few leak from that and ruin the carpet on the passenger side , just use a hose to check , to see if it leaks , easier to fix now , if the car just has a heater you can remove the duct on that side and the hood hinges to see it better, any rust in that area take care of it now or it will haunt you later , just a tip for others also , tree leaves ,old dead flowers and bugs collets under there and if the drains on each side are clogged it will rot it out over time, so if you pinto has been parked under a tree for years , just look , have a great weekend guys and girls, Later Blaine
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Now that you have it all apart and the heater/or AC unit out I would check and see if the sealant around the the large tube under the cowl is leaking , I have over the years seen a few leak from that and ruin the carpet on the passenger side , just use a hose to check , to see if it leaks , easier to fix now , if the car just has a heater you can remove the duct on that side and the hood hinges to see it better, any rust in that area take care of it now or it will haunt you later , just a tip for others also , tree leaves ,old dead flowers and bugs collets under there and if the drains on each side are clogged it will rot it out over time, so if you pinto has been parked under a tree for years , just look , have a great weekend guys and girls, Later Blaine
I have re caulked everything forward of the a pillars, top to bottom.
Ahhh... it's nice to be shiny... for now. I'll be blowing black boogers for a week though!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-21%2018.13.19.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-21%2018.13.19.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-21%2018.13.09.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-21%2018.13.09.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-21%2018.12.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-21%2018.12.59.jpg.html)
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Looking good , will make it a clean nice and neat, glad you got it all sealed up , hope you understood what I mention on inside cowl, with the ventilation tube inside of it, I usely take a water hose and run water at middle of the wiper blades and look around the tube under the dash on the passenger side , the one with the big rubber gasket, ou can run you hand inside of it under the dash and also feel if the sealant is peeling there , my 79 was leaking bad when I got it, I used MEK to clean it up for prime , and used a two part truck Bed liner coating on it ,
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Looking good , will make it a clean nice and neat, glad you got it all sealed up , hope you understood what I mention on inside cowl, with the ventilation tube inside of it, I usely take a water hose and run water at middle of the wiper blades and look around the tube under the dash on the passenger side , the one with the big rubber gasket, ou can run you hand inside of it under the dash and also feel if the sealant is peeling there , my 79 was leaking bad when I got it, I used MEK to clean it up for prime , and used a two part truck Bed liner coating on it ,
When I chopped and folded the firewall seam, I had to deal with that. And both sides were leakers. I even ran some butyl under the dash where the cowl and firewall meet. There will be new floor pans in my future as well. But no point to repairing them till the leaks stop. The way the firewall seam is now, and the re caulking of all the factory seams should keep my floors dry.
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Soon you will have to update your picture to reflect your labor!
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I'm waiting till I get it together a bit more. But here's some pics of todays progress. I hope it's the last motor/trans install of this project.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-22%2020.56.17.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-22%2020.56.17.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-22%2020.56.08.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-22%2020.56.08.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-22%2020.55.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-22%2020.55.59.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-22%2018.41.07.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-22%2018.41.07.jpg.html)
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Just messing with some small stuff today.
Like tying in the fuel lines.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-23%2019.44.02.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-23%2019.44.02.jpg.html)
Clutch and steering linkages.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-23%2019.43.31.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-23%2019.43.31.jpg.html)
Reworked the crankcase ventilation.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-23%2019.42.45.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-23%2019.42.45.jpg.html)
Dip stick and oil filter.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-23%2019.46.37.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-23%2019.46.37.jpg.html)
Peek-a-boo!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-23%2020.43.49.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-23%2020.43.49.jpg.html)
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That last ones gives a good indication of just how little space there is for an EFI intake, even the short one like yours.
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That last ones gives a good indication of just how little space there is for an EFI intake, even the short one like yours.
That's the first time I've ever cut a hole in a hood. Luckily I just cut through a patch over a pre-existing hole anyways. Otherwise, I don't think I could have brought myself to do it. Rotating the intake, with out shortening it, has actually caused more of it to protrude past the hood line, due to the slant of the hood intersecting it further down. I'm just going to wheel out the english wheel and shape a "power bump" to screw on over the existing hood patch. Shoot some black spray paint on it, and go with the mad max thing for a minute, till I feel like changing it up again.
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Saw that you welded the base to turn the manifold to to front , might have been easier since you had to weld it any way was to put it into a band saw and cut out three or more inches and a slight angle down and make one weld all around , hide it , I always like the look of a sleeper ,
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I didn't chop and weld it. I just found another way to fasten it to the lower manifold in the rotated position.
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That's the first time I've ever cut a hole in a hood. Luckily I just cut through a patch over a pre-existing hole anyways. Otherwise, I don't think I could have brought myself to do it. Rotating the intake, with out shortening it, has actually caused more of it to protrude past the hood line, due to the slant of the hood intersecting it further down. I'm just going to wheel out the english wheel and shape a "power bump" to screw on over the existing hood patch. Shoot some black spray paint on it, and go with the mad max thing for a minute, till I feel like changing it up again.
I have gone to great pains to avoid cutting the original hood on my '72, so much so that I still don't have a hood permanently affixed to it some nine months later. That is finally going to change since I got a '77 parts car and thus, a spare hood to cut, but ultimately I will redo the upper intake and plumbing to fit under a stock hood to keep the sleeper look.
"Why does that Pinto have a 3" muffler?" ;)
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The forward drop of the hood is more significant than it externally appears. I have the stock configuration (granted the lower 87-88 style), ground down nearly to the TB mount threads, upper "D" shaped protrusion (see image), pan to rack clearance you can measure with a feeler gauge and the hood barely closes. Even the forward mounted vacuum tap had to be ground down. And if I recall properly it is actually a shorter version off another 2.3 But, if you are going to use an axial (input opposite output) front mount intercooler it makes sense to point it forward.
There was a time when I was concern about the need for a hood bulge. I found a set on a Mitsubishi 3000. It may be too "fluid" appearing - especially on the very square front of a newer Pinto, But I thought I'd throw it out there. Also in the picture is the T/C factory duct that I eventually used with the factory intercooler. Ironically the bulges look small on the Mitsubishi, but rather large on the Pinto. Maybe if you cut the back of it square and let it become a vent???
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Man it was hot today, but I managed to get some work done. Got some more parts put in, and pieced together a down tube.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.24.46.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.24.46.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.24.31.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.24.31.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.24.12.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.24.12.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2017.40.44.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2017.40.44.jpg.html)
And I have a couple questions... Do I need to put this ugly thing back in? Or can it be deleted?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.25.50.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.25.50.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.25.29.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.25.29.jpg.html)
And since I'm running a front mount intercooler, do I cap this 1/4" hose barb off? Or does it still supply vacuum to something else?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2021.28.20.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2021.28.20.jpg.html)
I'm also assuming I can delete the electronic ignition system from the n/a motor? And the new computer takes over that function?
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Man it was hot today, but I managed to get some work done. Got some more parts put in, and pieced together a down tube.
And I have a couple questions... Do I need to put this ugly thing back in? Or can it be deleted?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2020.25.50.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2020.25.50.jpg.html)
I think those are the EGR solenoids. If you're removing EGR on the engine, those go with it.
And since I'm running a front mount intercooler, do I cap this 1/4" hose barb off? Or does it still supply vacuum to something else?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-26%2021.28.20.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-26%2021.28.20.jpg.html)
Cap it. I think that fitting just acted as a constant controlled boost leak or something. There is no real vacuum on the compressor inlet....unles s the accordion hose collapses or the air filter is really dirty.
I'm also assuming I can delete the electronic ignition system from the n/a motor? And the new computer takes over that function?
Yes, the TFI distributor on the turbo engine will be controlled by the ECU. The Duraspark ignition parts are a good design, but not directly compatible with an EEC-IV. Side note: Ironically the TFI distributor can be used by itself to fire a coil, but there is no advance mechanism inside. It might be possible to put one in it though.
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Nice! Thank you. That egr gizzard is just to ugly to have in there!
So the 1/4" hose barb, can it be used later for a boost gauge? Or can I thread the hole, and set a plug?
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Yea, that EGR control is one UGLY looking contraption isn't it (and very convoluted too). I originally installed mine and left the EGR hooked up thinking I'd be eliminating a problem if things didn't work correctly. But then I thought a leaking EGR valve might also be causing a problem and pulled it. Especially in the older cars it sure cleaned things up under the hood to get that stuff out of there.
There were some concerns I read about. One was that without the EGR combustion chamber temperatures might go up. The other was that if the computer detected the missing EGR it might restrict power. Frankly I don't think either are an issue. And, if the ECU did factor in perhaps it was just that it read a resistance at the solenoids. a resistor could easily fix that. I doubt OBD 1 was looking for a change at the 02 sensor when the EGR activated, but who know??? And, once the boost is there even any vacuum to actuate it anyway?
I have two of those barbs on the turbo inlet on my '88. One runs to the boost control solenoid which is part of the regular/premium fuel switch system. The other runs to a Tee at the intercooler. I currently have one end of the Tee capped off, but it use to run to the multi vacuum Tee that Ford originally had near the master cylinder.
I find the vacuum lines in the setup about as confounding as the EGR control looks. To me it looks like air bleeds under vacuum and unnecessary pressure loops under boost. Unless someone used multi colored arrows with detailed explanations I'd be lost to figure it out.
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The EGR system is shut off under WOT conditions anyway.
So the 1/4" hose barb, can it be used later for a boost gauge?
That barb on the compressor inlet doesn't get any boost now that the stock intercooler is gone.
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I'd think you could pick up the boost tap at the intake manifold. That way you would see whatever pressure drop all the intake plumbing might have scrubbed off. Be careful if you tap the gauge in on the compressor outlet. There is an orifice in that fitting that could throw off the readings if you do it wrong.
Lastly, there is some of that hosing that plays in when you have been on the boost and back off the throttle. It keeps the pressure in the intercooler (and the blades) from building up when the TB blade slams shut. But, as I said above others will have to explain it all to you. All I'd be good for is explaining the parts that confuse me. I mean I get the reason why, I don't always get the cause and effect as it relates to the exact plumbing.
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Played with some wires today. And made a little rack to hold the "computers".
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-27%2019.40.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-27%2019.40.36.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-27%2019.41.27.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-27%2019.41.27.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-06-27%2020.33.47.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-06-27%2020.33.47.jpg.html)
I'm wondering, have any of you hooked up a mechanical water temp. gauge? If so, where did you put the probe?
And I realized when I went to put some vacuum tubes back in, the only port left was the one on upper plenum. So I just capped it till I get my hands on a boost gauge.
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I'm wondering, have any of you hooked up a mechanical water temp. gauge? If so, where did you put the probe?
Although mine is electric, I put the sender in the lower intake manifold. IIRC, it was where the Thunderbird's fan switch had been. I think it shows something resembling a "worst-case" median temperature because that coolant has gone past the front two cylinders and at least one combustion chamber. There is another port toward the rear of the block too.
If you want something cheap and temporary just to get by, Harbor Freight has boost gauges for about $15-20 depending on the coupon. I got one because my budget was getting really this at the time, but it was within 0.5psi of a good Ashcroft combination gauge I tested it against. It only goes up to 20psi, but that's good enough for the average stock turbo setup with a little more than stock boost.
I'd think you could pick up the boost tap at the intake manifold.
I tapped into the EGR blockoff plate.
2.3T cars originally had a plastic "vacuum tree" on the firewall that usually had a capped port just asking to be hooked to a boost gauge. Reusing the vacuum tree could be an option. I think I'm going to make another thicker EGR blockoff to serve the same purpose.
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65 - Yes, and EGR block-off plate would be a good place to tap a boost gauge (now that we have convinced him to remove it). ;D
76 - Are you running a heater? I only mention it because it might duct heat onto the ECU. Being that I used the 88 fuse box (in my attempt to keep the Pinto and T/C wiring separate) I put it where your ECU is. What are your plans for an air filter? I ask because I see you have the VAM in the engine bay. I opted to put mine under the fender as it seemed to fall inline with the natural flow of the turbo alignment. It also availed room for factory air filter (mounted upside down).
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I think I'll have to switch to an electric water temp gauge. I can't find anywhere that is deep enough to put the probe in.
I've been looking for a boost gauge that looks era appropriate for a pinto. All I've found, so far, is a b&m supercharger boost gauge, but it only does 15psi. Most are just to ricer looking for me.
I'm running my heater, but I've removed everything but the defrost ducting, and patched over the holes with some sheet metal. It's pretty leak proof now.
As for an air cleaner, I was just going to stretch an old sock over the hole and secure it with a rubber band. Or maybe just a cone style filter thru a hole in the core support or on a 90 pointed downward up against the core support. My ocd is still struggling with that.
I got all the wiring done, but the integrated control unit (box of relays) seems to be having issues. I suspected something may be up with it, when I tore the tbird down, and the fuel pump had it's own circuit wired in separately from the stock loom. Is this a common issue for these? Any better units to look for? Or ones to avoid?
I did get it to turn over today too. HooraY!
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I've been looking for a boost gauge that looks era appropriate for a pinto. All I've found, so far, is a b&m supercharger boost gauge, but it only does 15psi. Most are just to ricer looking for me.
VDO or Stewart Warner might have something. Those are the ones I was looking at for a vintage appearance.
As for an air cleaner, I was just going to stretch an old sock over the hole and secure it with a rubber band. Or maybe just a cone style filter thru a hole in the core support or on a 90 pointed downward up against the core support. My ocd is still struggling with that.
The sock would be riskier than a screen or nothing at all. It won't filter and it won't flow, but will destroy the turbo if it or pieces thereof get pulled in.
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So maybe a panty hose?
I have another question... My schematics show the "start interrupt relay" wire, but not the end of it. Is it a clutch momentary button? Does it need a ground or a 12v source?
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I'd think the start interrupt would either be the clutch safety switch circuit (Manual) or the Park/Neutral safety switch circuit (Auto). While not absolutely necessary I elected to make a clutch safety switch from a micro switch. I did it because almost all my other manual cars have one. I didn't want to have a senior moment where I accidentally started the car in gear because "I wasn't use to not having the safety switch."
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I'd think the start interrupt would either be the clutch safety switch circuit (Manual) or the Park/Neutral safety switch circuit (Auto). While not absolutely necessary I elected to make a clutch safety switch from a micro switch. I did it because almost all my other manual cars have one. I didn't want to have a senior moment where I accidentally started the car in gear because "I wasn't use to not having the safety switch."
I'm thinking I'll put the clutch switch in, but does it need a 12v off the other side of the switch, or a ground?
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The clutch switch contains two switches, one for the starter interlock and one for the cruise control. The starter interlock portion of the switch goes in the wire between the ignition switch (hot on start) and the starter solenoid. With the clutch depressed, the clutch switch completes the circuit allowing the starter to engage when the ignition switch is in the start position. The cruise control portion of the switch goes in the wire between the brake light switch output and the cruise control electronic board. With the clutch depressed, the clutch switch opens to disengage cruise some how (could not figure out circuit). Note the brake light switch output also goes to the ECM pin #2, for fuel cut on deceleration I believe. This info is from a 87 Thunderbird EVTM.
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Not to get too far off the point..., but it seems the cruise control has six, maybe 8 cut-off options. I mention this in case anyone is considering it.
1. The ignition switch.
2. The CC on/off switch.
3. The CC control switch when in "coast."
4. The clutch switch.
5. The brake light switch.
6. The brake pedal also has a vacuum break hose on the CC vacuum canister.
[7]. Pushing the clutch pedal is also a mechanical disengagement of the CC controlled drive system.
[8] . Moving the transmission to Neutral.
Note that 7 & 8 do not actually disengage the CC. There was a day I was on vacation outside Seligman, Arizona. Rolling along at 65 MPH with the CC on our Audi 5000 Turbo (Automatic) lost its transmission and the tach instantly redlined because the car was slowing but the CC was giving more throttle input to compensate. I went 10 miles in 1st gear (at least I had that) to Saligman which is between 'somewhere and somewhere else.' After waiting nearly an hour for the truck that was just across the street the Audi (with us inside) were loaded on the flatbed tow truck and driven 70 miles to Flagstaff. That is an odd feeling to be in your car, 5 feet in the air going 60 MPH and having absolutely no control. We joked that it could become like the stage coach where the driver is shot, the horses take off and the passengers need to climb out and take control. I mean, the driver was in his 60's and people do have sudden heart attacks.
Anyway, there is some Turbo Pinto info in this sidetrack. The mid 80's Audi Turbos have a nifty, electric coolant circulation pump. It basically takes a standard heater hose and circulates coolant through the turbo when the car is shut off. A relay and a 555 timer could provide the timed power source. Lastly, those Audi's (especially the Turbos) have the most powerful fan motor I have ever seen. It is the size of a small starter motor and with the fan pulls a LOT of air. If you can configure a bracket and work around the length I'd recommend it for those forgoing the mechanical fan.
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CRIPES IT"S HOT!!! But I tried to push on. Here's a few pics of miscellaneous stuffs.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-02%2012.01.12.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-02%2012.01.12.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-02%2012.00.58.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-02%2012.00.58.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-02%2012.00.27.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-02%2012.00.27.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-02%2011.59.55.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-02%2011.59.55.jpg.html)
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Looks great.. 8)
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Looks great.. 8)
Thank you. I spared no expense. Got the best spray paint available at ace! Funny part is... when I'm done (with this phase), it will look the same as before, just with a stupid lump on the hood. Until I open the hood, or take off the fenders again. Just an ol' crappy pinto, eh?
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I have another question... I've been playing the hermit crab game trying to cram all this clutter under the dash, as a result, my previous coil location has been occupied by other gizzardry. There is still enough space to get in there, if I fab a new bracket, but it puts it pretty close to the computers and other magic black boxes. Is the coils field going to mess with the brains of this operation? I figure I can get about 2" from any of it, which is about 4" from the ecu itself. Any thoughts?
Also... can I pull an integrated control unit from any comparable 2.3 efi motor? Or does it need to be specifically my setup?
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I can't confirm anything on the interference however, I recall some of the wiring (probably to the TFI) was foil wrapped. The original wiring on my 88 T/C was such that the wiring to the coil came down the passenger side of the engine compartment, across the radiator cradle, then back up the drivers side to the coil. The coil was located adjacent to the distributor.
It seems like the ignition wiring literally went full circle from the TFI at the distributor to the ECU in the passenger kick well then down the passenger/cradle/drivers route I mentioned above as the high tension returned back to the distributor cap. Perhaps they went that way to avoid interference?
I believe what you call the "integrated control unit" is the TFI. It bolts to the distributor. There are different TFI's, but I believe those that are similar (and Ford used them on a bunch of cars) will work regardless of the engine size. Ford eventually removed the TFI from the distributor and mounted it to a heat sink in the engine compartment. The picture shows my relocated TFI/heat sink and the coil (under the black cover). This does require running wires from the distributor to the TFI. The rest of the wiring (connector and spout) are factory. There are other heat sink mounted TFI's that only use a single connector because they never had the three spade lugs designed to hook at the distributor. I am not sure if they work. For sure they would require a different wiring configuration. So, be careful what you look for.
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Amazing progress. If you were referring to the "integrated relay control module", there are various versions. From the books, they internally appear to be the same except some can control one fan and others two fans. The terminal numbers do differ some, so I suspect they can not be a plug in direct substitution over the years. With the correct connector, I believe a different year module could be used with some rewiring. Note all the suspect, appear, believe, so the above is speculation from looking at wiring drawings and that I have not tried it.
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Amazing progress. If you were referring to the "integrated relay control module", there are various versions. From the books, they internally appear to be the same except some can control one fan and others two fans. The terminal numbers do differ some, so I suspect they can not be a plug in direct substitution over the years. With the correct connector, I believe a different year module could be used with some rewiring. Note all the suspect, appear, believe, so the above is speculation from looking at wiring drawings and that I have not tried it.
I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. It has a bunch of relay functions, including the fuel pump which does not kick on, through it, at the moment. I'll just write the part number on a note and pin it to my collar when I next go yarding.
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I have another question... I've been playing the hermit crab game trying to cram all this clutter under the dash, as a result, my previous coil location has been occupied by other gizzardry. There is still enough space to get in there, if I fab a new bracket, but it puts it pretty close to the computers and other magic black boxes. Is the coils field going to mess with the brains of this operation? I figure I can get about 2" from any of it, which is about 4" from the ecu itself. Any thoughts?
Personally, I would try to put it somewhere else like in the engine bay. EEC-IV computers are not particularly sensitive to RFI, but that's assuming all the original noise suppression measures are in place. The TFI harness is wrapped with foil and has a bare grounded wire down the length of it for noise shielding.
Also... can I pull an integrated control unit from any comparable 2.3 efi motor? Or does it need to be specifically my setup?
I don't know the answer, but I would start by looking up a replacement for the 'Bird and see if any parts sites list "compatible models."
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No, sorry. I miss understood. The heat sink TFI isn't a bad idea to consider though. The relay box is a separate item. Mine is mounted about where your VAM is on the passenger inner fender. That is roughly its natural position in a T/C. Since I don't have a FMIC I just put the VAM inside the passenger fender well. I guess you can put the relay box where you like, but remember if you are having issues access does have its virtue.
If you go to page 4, reply #92 you can see the layout I use. The TFI has yet to be moved/heat sinked and the hideous EGR control is still in place but the rest is the same. (Innercooler removed for visibility).
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Keeping the TFI module as cool as possible is never a bad thing, especially when new genuine Motorcraft replacements are both expensive and getting difficult to find. They have to be mounted on a heat sink with heatsink grease if they are controlling the coil because of the current and heat involved.
In my case(using a MegaSquirt standalone ECU), all the TFI does is act as an interface for sending an RPM signal to the ECU so I left it on the distributor. If that module pops, I have a spare. If the spare fails, I have a Duraspark distributor from my parts car that will also work with the MegaSquirt, albeit with some hardware changes.
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Here's a few more pics of some progress made in the fiery heat.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-03%2019.34.57.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-03%2019.34.57.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-03%2019.35.32.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-03%2019.35.32.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-03%2019.35.47.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-03%2019.35.47.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-03%2019.36.04.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-03%2019.36.04.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-03%2019.40.28.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-03%2019.40.28.jpg.html)
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Your progress is doing great even though this hot spell, the heat slows everybody down on even the simple projects, looking good ,
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I've been cleaning a set of (four) barnacled Kawasaki carburetors for the last three hours. Just moving slow because it's 100°F+ outside and 90+ in the barn. :P I did 90% of the work on my Pinto last year in the same conditions. :o
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I was welding in a new floor pan in my pinto last year at this time , yep it was hot also , and hot today , around 95 and the humidity here along the coast was high , after I get the bronco II project done I am going to put air conditioning in the garage, this cooking in the summer and freezing my old butt in the wintertime is getting to me , wife worrys that one day I will keel over and die of a heatstroke, so y'all be careful in this hot weather , have a great 4 th
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I took it pretty easy today. Spent a couple hours playing with the front bumper... then ate some bbq!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.28.13.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.28.13.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.28.01.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.28.01.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.27.47.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.27.47.jpg.html)
I drilled and sleeved the frame for 1/2" bolts and removed some "excess". I didn't have the right 1/2" bolt to fasten it in yet, so it's just hanging all wonky in the pics. I split the whole inner brace so that all I have is two pieces with the holes for the mounts and the bumper itself. I like that I'll be able to pull the bumper and leave the braces to work on say... an intercooler. And to put it back on, I don't have to play the alignment game!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.27.01.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.27.01.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.26.54.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.26.54.jpg.html)
I think I removed as much as I kept!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-04%2020.30.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-04%2020.30.36.jpg.html)
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Another unbelievably hot day here! I popped the pimple on my hood. I'm not messing with the hood any more. It's scrap with hinges on it. I'll deal with it properly after I get more important things done. But my ocd isn't twitching... for now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-05%2019.33.46.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-05%2019.33.46.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-05%2019.33.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-05%2019.33.36.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-05%2019.33.21.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-05%2019.33.21.jpg.html)
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That looks a whole lot better with the bumpers retracted. Should you ever have access to a set of 71-73 bumpers (and desire them) here is a pictorial of a guy who swapped the early bumpers onto a later car http://www.joe-escobar.com/pinto.html. Scroll about a third of the way down. The hood bulge has a very stealth fighter like look. Maybe it will help evade radar. LOL
You may be struggling with the heat (and working on gravel), but you are making very good progress. That said, the date of your first post indicates you started over 6 months ago. So, your build I think is a very good indicator of the time it takes to do the turbo build. It sure doesn't happen in a weekend. We often get guys here who like the concept, but you can generally tell they are rather clueless as to what it really requires. Your posts show the diligence that is necessary. Carry on!
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That looks a whole lot better with the bumpers retracted. Should you ever have access to a set of 71-73 bumpers (and desire them) here is a pictorial of a guy who swapped the early bumpers onto a later car http://www.joe-escobar.com/pinto.html. Scroll about a third of the way down. The hood bulge has a very stealth fighter like look. Maybe it will help evade radar. LOL
You may be struggling with the heat (and working on gravel), but you are making very good progress. That said, the date of your first post indicates you started over 6 months ago. So, your build I think is a very good indicator of the time it takes to do the turbo build. It sure doesn't happen in a weekend. We often get guys here who like the concept, but you can generally tell they are rather clueless as to what it really requires. Your posts show the diligence that is necessary. Carry on!
Stealth fighter... I like that! Maybe I'll paint some some little windows on it for kicks. I've had the pinto torn down for about 6 weeks now. And I put between 4-10 hours in on it everyday. Everyday. I stopped for one day, a while ago, and the rigor mortise set in. I'm afraid to stop again.
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Cleaned up the bumper bracketry and sprayed them black.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-06%2013.46.07.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-06%2013.46.07.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-06%2013.46.18.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-06%2013.46.18.jpg.html)
And cleaned and sprayed the back of the bumper as well. (damn ocd!)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-06%2018.20.26.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-06%2018.20.26.jpg.html)
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I put the front end back together to measure for an intercooler and air filter... and possibly a pusher fan. I do like the way it looks now, other than the lump.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-07%2019.50.22.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-07%2019.50.22.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-07%2019.49.58.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-07%2019.49.58.jpg.html)
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Looks good..
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Made a wrecking yard trip this morning and scored a few pieces. Still no radiator yet. I think I'll break down and get a new aluminum one.
Got a 45.5 inch aluminum drive shaft.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-17%2013.00.23.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-17%2013.00.23.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-17%2013.00.34.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-17%2013.00.34.jpg.html)
And some intercooler tubing. I got a k&n filter put in.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-17%2020.18.25.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-17%2020.18.25.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-17%2016.42.27.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-17%2016.42.27.jpg.html)
I put the fuel system all together at the pump. Still need to make a filter bracket.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-17%2016.42.59.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-17%2016.42.59.jpg.html)
Some small stuff, but it's nice to be at it again.
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I filled the trans and got her down off the jacks today. But that's about it. I did order a 22" aluminum radiator, a 16" fan and a 22" x 12" intercooler with 2.5" ins and outs. Not much left to do till those parts get here. It looks nice on the ground again.
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It is always enjoyable to see your progress. So often we get people who "talk" this endeavor, but don't always" walk" it. Of late yours and 65SC's turbo projects (my apology if I missed any others) are a testament to the tasks need to complete these types of projects. To me it is like a fraternity, a brotherhood - especially when we are doing all the work ourselves. Not that we are any better than anyone else, but that we have "passed through the fire." May your new parts arrive "SWIFTLY."
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It is always enjoyable to see your progress. So often we get people who "talk" this endeavor, but don't always" walk" it. Of late yours and 65SC's turbo projects (my apology if I missed any others) are a testament to the tasks need to complete these types of projects. To me it is like a fraternity, a brotherhood - especially when we are doing all the work ourselves. Not that we are any better than anyone else, but that we have "passed through the fire." May your new parts arrive "SWIFTLY."
Thank you brother! I REALLY appreciate all the help from you and 65sc and pinto-one and pintocrazed, on this(sorry to anyone not mentioned). I feel like I have been passed through the fire too, after working through the heat wave.
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Should I be able to move the boost control linkage by hand... not running? I was checking it for play and realized it doesn't move, not easily anyways, I'm not going to force it. But it seems like I should be able to actuate it by hand, if that vac solenoid can. Am I wrong?
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No, the wastegate linkage should not be easy to move. It should move smoothly, but with a lot of spring resistance.
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Agreed. And, I'll offer this too. Depending on how you plumb the intercooler you may be tempted to rotate the turbo inlet housing. It is easy enough by loosening the screws and turning it. But, it alters the waste-gate puck in relationship to the designed tension. I get full boost, but I think I'm bleeding early on the way up. Ideally I would desire to have the rod threaded right/left so I can adjust the tension properly. If in fact you have done this look for marks where it was originally set.
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IT LIVES!!!
I got her running today! I had to switch the hoses on the fuel pump around, but it fired first time after that. I got the intercooler mounted and the radiator mounts plotted. I have all my parts, and it's gonna be a tight fit for the 12v fan. But it runs now!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-27%2019.57.11.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-27%2019.57.11.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-27%2019.56.41.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-27%2019.56.41.jpg.html)
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Way to go!!! Congratulation s!
Dwayne :)
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Congratulation s ! Enjoy :-)
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I got my radiator mounts fabbed out.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2017.00.27.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2017.00.27.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2017.00.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2017.00.36.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2017.00.46.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2017.00.46.jpg.html)
And got it installed, after finishing core support mods and painting.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2019.30.50.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2019.30.50.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2019.30.09.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2019.30.09.jpg.html)
Still have the fan and hoses to put in, but it's pretty much done, as far as fabbing stuff goes. Till the next major upheaval... I'm just itching to go drive this thing!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-07-29%2019.29.54.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-07-29%2019.29.54.jpg.html)
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Aaugh! One stupid radiator hose away from hitting the road! The waiting is killing me(that and the heat!)! It should be here in the morning, and I should be road testing by lunch.
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Got some road under her today! It was all worth it. Happiness!
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Pics video or it didn't happen. ;)
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I'll see if I can find someone brave enough to hold a camera, and not grab the dash.
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I'll see if I can find someone brave enough to hold a camera, and not grab the dash.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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To bad your far away , if you were near I would grab my G suit and helmet and take a test flight ,opps I mean a ride with you 🏁
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To bad your far away , if you were near I would grab my G suit and helmet and take a test flight ,opps I mean a ride with you 🏁
G suit?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/images.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/images.jpg.html)
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hope your ejection seat is up and working , just in case :o
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hope your ejection seat is up and working , just in case :o
No ejection seat... per say... How about rusty floor pans?
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No ejection seat... per say... How about rusty floor pans?
Yikes! I'd rather eject out through the top than fall out through the bottom!
Dwayne :o
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Yikes! I'd rather eject out through the top than fall out through the bottom!
Dwayne :o
That's why you grab the dash!
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I had to fuel up last night, and I just went to the local gas station. It was nice to be able to get fuel so easily, instead of having to head to the race gas station. And still have more hp to get there! I love this little pinto.
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I think I have a funky tps. I see many choices of brands, but some have mounting holes and some have slots. Do the ones with holes still rotate somehow, to adjust? I've also seen a few motorcraft units for big$. Is it something I can get off brand, and still get quality performance?
It still runs pretty well, but the tps tests out in mv's, won't even muster a half volt.
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Is the +5v TPS power leg supplying a good 5v? Are there any dead spots in the TPS sweep?
There is a KOER "goose test" where you stab the throttle very quickly and the ECU will detect dead spots or a bad signal.
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I didn't check it for that, just for voltage at closed, with iac unplugged. No difference in the reading, from max to min settings, but big difference in performance. I feel like I'm leaning out under boost though.
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Is there a guide to running codes? A how to for first timers? I haven't found the code list anywhere either, even if I did know how to test it. I know how to hook up either an analog meter or light to the eec test plug, but then...?
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Never mind on the faulty tps. I wasn't getting a good contact. Just shoved the pointed probes thru the insulator and all is good. Would still like a tutorial on the whole code reading deal.
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The simple method for reading codes can be frustrating. There are initial codes, then the test codes, then closing codes. And they all have to be counted visually with the check engine light or an analog volt meter by counting pulses and pauses. At various times you need to perform functions based on timed intervals (like pushing the accelerator to the floor). It is a bit like trying to read Morse code but never having done it before. Some tests are done with the "Key On-Engine Off" and others "Key On-Engine Running."
There are code "readers" but they are not like OBD II. The simplest plugs into the test port and basically flashes a light like the CEL on the dash does and a switch to trigger the test. They also have a buzzer if you are more audibly inclined. You still have to do the interrupting of the pulses and pauses so it is not much of a help. These are in the $10 range on Ebay. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/equ-3143 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/equ-3143)
There is a somewhat more expensive type that as far as I can tell does the counting for you and displays a code number. I actually have one, but have never used it. These are in the $30 range. UPDATE: I just tested mine. It sure takes the "Mystery" out of counting light flashes and pause counts. It does display an actual number! This comes with a book that delves into the deeper side of OBD I too. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ino-3145 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/equ-3145)
Ford also had a dealer style Rotunda reader and I think it piggybacked on the ECU. These are not cheap and if I recall correctly when you find one (the right one) are easily in the $500+ range.
Lastly be very weary of any reader that "says" it is OBD I and has even a hint of being an OBD II reader. From what I saw these would never work. Innova and Equus are the only two "real" OBD I (Ford) readers I am aware of.
You will have had to retain or reinstall the test port from the ECU. It is a somewhat triangular connector with a single wire connector associated with it. There is all kinds of stuff on the internet about OBD I (Ford) but you might try The Ranger Station http://www.therangerstation.com/ (http://www.therangerstation.com/) or NATO http://www.turbotbird.com/ (http://www.turbotbird.com/) as they deal with swap issues. Be careful too because I have seen where not every OBD I (Ford) code number is the same for each engine. Be sure the codes are specific to your engine/year.
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That's exactly what I needed to know. Thank you. I did retain the test plugs.
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Your welcome. I ran my test wires into the car - as opposed to the stock under the hood location. It makes it easier to to do the testing from the drivers seat. When done I coil the wires up into the glove box. After now having tried my Innova 3145 I'd highly recommend it over the cheaper 3143 or just using the CEL. Having a numerical readout is so nice and assures the code is correct.
BTW, the ECU can do cylinder balance tests (shuts each cylinder off momentarily and measures RPM drop) amongst other mostly unknown things that can be tested. Don't be surprised that you get codes because the ECU tests A/C, power steering, EGR etc. So, in our Turbo Pinto application I'd assume a CEL would be on all the time for those.
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I was just checking that out. I think I'll order me one. I expect the first conversation between the ecu and I will go something like "KEEE-RIPES!! What the hell happened to me!!"
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BTW, the ECU can do cylinder balance tests (shuts each cylinder off momentarily and measures RPM drop) amongst other mostly unknown things that can be tested. Don't be surprised that you get codes because the ECU tests A/C, power steering, EGR etc. So, in our Turbo Pinto application I'd assume a CEL would be on all the time for those.
Unfortunately the cylinder balance test only applies to engines that had sequential EFI of which the 2.3T wasn't one.
Here's how to do the test light code reading method:
www.troublecodes.net/ford/ (http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?105981-How-to-pull-codes-from-86-mustang-computer)
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Makes sense - sort of. I understand that the injectors fire two at a time. But I have put the test into motion and the car paraded through the rough running cycle. So, I thought it just killed the plug firing. Now I'm perplexed as to what was occurring because the engine went into a mode that replicated an alternating rough running procedure???
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It may have been testing the EGR valve or idle air controller.
The TFI commands a spark even if the computer signal is lost entirely. It functions as a fail-safe so the car won't stop running in the middle of a freeway lane or railroad tracks or some other dangerous place. Since the injectors are paired, the ECU can't drop a single cylinder by cutting fuel either.
OEMs also go to great lengths to avoid controlling the engine in any way with spark only because dumping fuel and air into the exhaust will nuke a catalytic converter.
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I got my engine bay wires all wrapped and strapped.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-04%2015.57.02.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-04%2015.57.02.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-04%2015.57.17.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-04%2015.57.17.jpg.html)
And put in a boot to block that hot turbo wind!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-04%2020.33.36.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-04%2020.33.36.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-04%2020.34.05.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-04%2020.34.05.jpg.html)
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Anybody running, or have run a manual boost control valve? How do, did you like it? Is it consistent in it's control? Does it create other issues?
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It's still in control, it only delays the opening of the waste gate for higher boots , but don't get too greedy with it , 💥. Nice that you got it finished, and thanks for sharing your progress with us, it help others that are thinking of doing the same thing , now go and enjoy
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It's still in control, it only delays the opening of the waste gate for higher boots , but don't get too greedy with it , 💥. Nice that you got it finished, and thanks for sharing your progress with us, it help others that are thinking of doing the same thing , now go and enjoy
Not trying to get more boost out of her, just a little more delay before it starts spooling. Seems to start spooling at around 2400. I'd like to have it start at about 2900-3000.
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Not sure what cam you are running, but with the Ranger Roller I'm "squeezing that last few drops out of the sponge" between 4,500 and 5,000 RPM. For sure by 5,500 RPM the "sponge is dry." At least in hard throttle applications I feel more like I'm driving an old diesel truck that idles at 600 RPM and shifts at 1,200 RPM. It just seems like lag, BOOST, Shift, lag BOOST Shift etc.. Part of it may be my car. I'm still choking on a 2-1/4" exhaust.
From my experience I'd think that delaying the boost onset would be not be advantageous. I prefer to gently "lay into the throttle" and extend the feeling of acceleration. To that end I never found the 3.00 gears to be a detriment for that expressed purpose. They extended the acceleration process. The change to 3.40's was prompted by the need to be in a better RPM range specific to normal street speed. I'm not racing or anything, just going for that "E Ticket" ride experience. So, we may be looking at different purposed.
As far as delaying boost I'd thing going away from the IHI turbo would help. As I understand it was selected to bring boost on earlier - though it wheezes out sooner.
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Still have the stock cam and lifters. I'm not certain yet, but I'm thinking ranger cam, t3-t4, and the PiMP ecu as my first round of upgrades to the motor. I'm going to hold off on the boost control valve till I get my bigger wheels on. It could be just right if the larger wheels gets me the ratio I want.
I'm going to start the suspension and brake rebuild next though. It's become very clear that all of my bushings are shot, and not up to par with the capabilities of the car now(or before). I'm ordering a tubular A-arm and big brake kit up front, 2" drop. All 5 lug, front and back, via shortened 8.8(with discs) out back. And get a disc brake master cylinder put in. Considering going 4-link on the axle, but not sure yet.
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Well looks like your on you way to the easy stuff, unbolt and bolt up , at least you can drive the car and make the small mods along the way , looking good and keep us posted , later Blaine
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Not trying to get more boost out of her, just a little more delay before it starts spooling. Seems to start spooling at around 2400. I'd like to have it start at about 2900-3000.
T3 upgrade time. That or leggier gears and more tire. I have to ask though, why have it spool later?
It isn't really going to be possible without going to a different turbo that has larger exhaust housings available. The other option is to find/adapt a wastegate actuator that opens lower than 10psi and modify the boost control bleeder orifice to make it peak at the same ~15-16psi. Retarding the cam will move the torque later in the revs a bit. The fastest and cheapest solution is to tighten the nut behind the wheel. ;)
If you get a PiMP ECU, it can provide for boost based on RPM between the wastegate actuator's minimum setting and however high it will hold without a boost signal. I have my MegaSquirt-II set to provide high boost (16psi) whenever.
Still have the stock cam and lifters. I'm not certain yet, but I'm thinking ranger cam, t3-t4, and the PiMP ecu as my first round of upgrades to the motor. I'm going to hold off on the boost control valve till I get my bigger wheels on. It could be just right if the larger wheels gets me the ratio I want.
Getting a turbo you can grow into is tough to do. A Ranger cam is also not an upgrade unless all you want is roller followers. Lots of people get hung up on the different lobe shapes, but actual events at the valve are indistinguisha ble from a stock turbo slider. A good aftermarket cam will be big bucks these days, unfortunately. I can hardly believe how much the prices have gone up recently.
Also, avoid TO4B-based compressors if you get a hybrid. They are ancient profiles and none of them are well-suited to the boost and flow requirements of the average 2.3T. There are many ways to identify them, but the easiest is by eight main blades on the compressor wheel.
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My only complaint is the short tires are putting me at boost ranges when I'm at 35-37mph in 3rd... cruising down the street speed. Or lug 4th out. I think the bigger wheels will solve that.
I haven't done a whole lot of studying on the mega squirt system, other that the pimp is basically a mega squirt(alledgedly same former software designer?), but tailored for the 2.3. I do look forward to getting that vam out of there!
I'm not unhappy with the boost at all. I'm having a blast! Just need longer legs... And a roll cage!
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I find that the stock 3.55 rear end I'm using has a bit too much gear even with a T3 turbo. At this point I think 3.25s will be about right for my car, especially as power/torque increases.
The PiMP is a licensed MegaSquirt-based product. Stinger Performance produces it and the owner is on turboford.org frequently as am I. It was meant to be a plug 'n' play MegaSquirt-II conversion for '83-89 Ford 2.3T vehicles. Since yours is using a factory ECU, it should be plug 'n' play too.
IMO, the throttle response is far crisper and generally better with a speed-density system like the MegaSquirt/PiMP/etc.
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I have an 8" rear end out of an m2. I don't know the gear ratio, but it was a perfect match for the 4sp., not so much the t5 and 13" wheels.
I have plenty of time to thoroughly study the ecu options, as I need to replace every bushing in the car, and spiff it up as I go thru it, before I play the horse power game.
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"I find that the stock 3.55 rear end I'm using has a bit too much gear even with a T3 turbo. At this point I think 3.25s will be about right for my car, especially as power/torque increases."
I couldn't agree more. Granted that tire size is also a factor. Side rant - Why can't the industry come up with some other measurement that factors rear ratio AND tire size. Something on the order of driveshaft revolutions per 100 ft., or mile or whatever (end of rant)? When I was looking for my 8" rear at Pick A Part I ran into the guy who who was snagging them all. He told me except for some limited use, rare, car/year combination the 3.25 was hardly used by Ford. He said the likelihood of finding an 8" with that ratio was basically nil. So to get that ratio it likely won't happen with a junkyard center section swap. It requires purchase of new gears and the task or outside cost of installation.
Otherwise it is 3.00, 3.40 or 3.55. 3.00 was OK as the turbo had the torque to pull that, but as I often complain they were miserable for regular "street speeds." You just couldn't find the right gear/rpm. I have 3.40's now and find them acceptable. I'm running 175-70-13" tires on Ralleye wheels and 65 MPH is 2,600 RPM in 5th gear. But at some point I'm bumping up to 205-60-13".... or .... [195/205]-60-14" if I can find another pair of SSP look a like wheels. Then I think I'll be even happier with the taller tires. So, if your doing this one on the cheap I'd say 3.40's and tires taller than the basic 175-70-13".
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I just replaced the back tires, and I couldn't even find a 205-70-13, not without going for a coker or some other big$ tire. I ended up with 185-75-13 tires. They will do until my big wheel swap. The guys at the tire store didn't even believe I was running 205-70's, they hadn't seen any in decades.
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That's what I have and 185/75-13 rubber is barely enough on dry pavement with a stock 2.3T. 8) On even damp pavement my Runabout will squirm through 4th gear. :o A wagon might not, but I don't have one of those...
The 8" I found has typical 3.00 gears as well and transmission gear spacing is a concern that's been in the back of my mind for a long time. 3.00s will probably suffice for a while until I go with more gear, a T-Lok, and possibly taller/definitely wider tires.
Depending on the rear ratio and tire size of the donor, a gear ratio can be figured that will match the original car behavior-wise. I think the '87-88 5-speed 'Birds had 3.55s, so exactly matching the RPM at 60mph in 4th in a Pinto with our tire size would require a 3.19 rear ratio.
My older donor car had 3.45s and spun a little higher in 4th, so 3.22s would match the original characteristic s. Since 3.25s are the closest available ratio, the choice is obvious.
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Is motorcraft still making spark plug wires for these? Or what is the best after market wire?
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I don't know if Motorcraft still has them, but the most common brands you're likely to see in a chain store (at least here) are Borg Warner (BW Auto), Bosch, and the house brand. I find a lot of the sub-$30 sets have very soft boots and sometimes the terminal will pull out of it and take the core too.
Taylor-Vertex, MSD, and Accel probably have good race-grade wires, but I haven't tried them.
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I keep reading about other builds and their motorcraft wires. I can't seem to find any. I have msd street fire wires now. Not much more quality than the cheapos. I find a lot of posts about how picky the ignition system can be with these, and they all recommend the motorcraft plugs and wires. Maybe half of a 5.0l set?
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I have never heard that these ignition systems have any special needs myself. I think defective wires are probably a bigger concern than the name on them. Autolite 764 plugs are not the only ones that will work well in a 2.3T, but they are original equipment, cheap, and easy to find.
The quality of ignition components will become more important as power levels increase. Denser mixtures are harder to light off so the coil voltage rises higher before the plug fires which is more demanding of all the insulating parts.
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I'm not having any issues, that I'm aware of(still have yet to run a diagnostic though). Just thought I'd try to eliminate weak links. I'll just get a sticker instead. Got 100 miles on it since the swap, no major issues at all. This makes me nervous...
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"Got 100 miles on it since the swap, no major issues at all. This makes me nervous..."
Be thankful for that. Where as my Turbo swap fired up on the first twist of the key..., it had a miss at idle and ran totally crappy at about the 2,500 RPM range. I literally swapped every component, VAM, TPS, O2 sensor, temp sensors, TFI, distributor, coil, fuel pump, cleaned injectors, various hoses etc. - even the ECU and nothing made a difference. Nearly two years later on a whim I ran 12V directly from the battery to the coil and the problem went away. I still don't know the cause, but the cure was to install a key switched relay directly from the battery to the coil.
So, be thankful and enjoy. :-)
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Where as my Turbo swap fired up on the first twist of the key..., it had a miss at idle and ran totally crappy at about the 2,500 RPM range. I literally swapped every component, VAM, TPS, O2 sensor, temp sensors, TFI, distributor, coil, fuel pump, cleaned injectors, various hoses etc. - even the ECU and nothing made a difference. Nearly two years later on a whim I ran 12V directly from the battery to the coil and the problem went away. I still don't know the cause, but the cure was to install a key switched relay directly from the battery to the coil.
I think the TFI has dwell control built-in, so running coil power through a ballast resistor/resistor wire could cause that problem.
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Yes, and to avoid troubles like that I opted to used the stock, 88 harness from the donor car. But, apparently not. There is a resistor wire in the TC harness (column), but I swapped the column too. Now, I did have to cut it (there was no other way of getting it out), but I soldered it and never altered its length. Just one more mystery (and curse) of running a factory 87-88 harness. 76 HRP, did you use the stock coil and if so was there any resistor used?
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I used the factory coil power wire(tbird), aftermarket coil and a fancy racing toggle, no resistor. I ended up mounting the coil where the stereo would be. I'll be going mech-less when I do get around to the stereo.
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I have a short video of it now. I just have to figure out how to post it. I've never posted one before.
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I got my boost gauge and afm gauge installed. I had to swap a few around to satisfy my ocd, but I'm happy with the lay out now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-14%2016.59.38.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-14%2016.59.38.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-14%2016.59.15.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-14%2016.59.15.jpg.html)
And here's a pic of some clouds, for those that may not have seen any for while.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-08-14%2017.00.19.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-08-14%2017.00.19.jpg.html)
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On posting a video, the one on my project was the first time I did this; went to youtube, right top click upload, logged in with a gmail account, uploaded the video following the simple instructions, and copy pasted the youtube url of the vid in my Pinto post.
Hope this helps.
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On posting a video, the one on my project was the first time I did this; went to youtube, right top click upload, logged in with a gmail account, uploaded the video following the simple instructions, and copy pasted the youtube url of the vid in my Pinto post.
Hope this helps.
So I need to make a youtube account? Will photobucket work? I use that for pics.
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I fingered out the video posting deal... I think. So here is a short one. I'll post one of a joy ride, when I get a brave camera man. My first video, so don't expect any kind of quality.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/th_video-2015-08-15-16-07-13.mp4) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/video-2015-08-15-16-07-13.mp4)
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(sound of crickets chirping)
Any of you guys running an oil catch system? I don't think I need it yet, but I hear they become necessary at higher boost levels, which is inevitable. If you do, what size can are you using? And what size toobs?
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I don't yet, but this might offer some ideas:
http://stinger-performance.proboards.com/thread/732/fix-pcv-system-engine-blow
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I don't yet, but this might offer some ideas:
http://stinger-performance.proboards.com/thread/732/fix-pcv-system-engine-blow
Perfect! Great info, thank you.
I haven't quite got the clutch broke in yet, but I let myself be goaded in to an excessive acceleration type situation with a lowered acura sporting a coffee can... my first victim! And I still have yet to really lay in to the throttle. This has been one of the more gratifying projects I've ever done.
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Cool, but be safe. There was a guy on here a while back that had a grandpa like Squire Wagon, cheezy plastic hub cap, a beer box hiding his rear mounted battery - and a turbo conversion. He seemed to bait the Ricers too. There was an actually a web site about his car. Not sure how to link to it now. But, yea, go PINTO!
Update: Found it. Click on the "more" when you get to the pictures for continuing information. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2167062/1980-ford-pinto/
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What kind of mph are you guys getting out of your turbo setups? I'm surprised to find I'm getting 18-20 mph, or so. That's about 50% better than the 11-1 comp. na motor, I was running before. I feel pretty good about that.
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I think the one time I checked it was doing about 24mpg with a bad tune and routes and driving that did not help economy. I expect to get 26-28 when it's finally sorted out. That's what 2.3Ts got in most of the original (larger and heavier) applications.
18-20 leaves a LOT of room for improvement.
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It is running rich, and I have those tiny wheels. I've been mostly just driving it and monitoring all the systems for issues. Other than needing some tuning, it's doing perfect. I always go thru trust issues when I do a drive train swap, but I feel pretty good about things so far.
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I have the trust issues after major work too, but most of it comes from all the new wiring. Mechanicals can usually be fixed on the roadside with simple tools...electr ical, not so much.
My speedometer is surprisingly accurate (according to GPS) to about 1mph with the '86 Bird trans gear and the Pinto driven gear with 3.55s and stock tire height.
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Mine seems more accurate than before. According to the speed signs that read your speed, it's dead on too.
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How much of an affect, if any, does engine temp have on fuel mixture? I've been running rich, not so bad that I can smell it in the exhaust, but rich on the mix meter. I've been gradually upping the temp setting for my fan, and have noticed that my mix meter is showing incremental lowering of fuel in the mix(at operating temp). Is it coincidental? My imagination? Or am I correct, that engine temp is part of the computers equation for determining fuel mix?
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Finished up a few small things.
Put a drain valve in the radiator.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-09-22%2016.08.28.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-09-22%2016.08.28.jpg.html)
And dug thru the radiator hoses at the parts store till I found the right chunks to make decent lines in and out. I hate temp tubes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-09-22%2016.08.12.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-09-22%2016.08.12.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-09-22%2016.07.56.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-09-22%2016.07.56.jpg.html)
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I got the last piece of my cooling system in, the overflow tank. I think that's enough shiny's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-09-25%2014.50.35.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-09-25%2014.50.35.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2015-09-25%2014.50.08.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2015-09-25%2014.50.08.jpg.html)
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I think that's enough shiny's.
Don't worry. The rust color cam sprocket helps tone things down. LOL Also, if you can dig up the factory clamps they are a muted black color. Glad to see the progress. You turbo guys seemed to have slowed down a bit.
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Looks good..
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I think that's enough shiny's.
Don't worry. The rust color cam sprocket helps tone things down. LOL Also, if you can dig up the factory clamps they are a muted black color. Glad to see the progress. You turbo guys seemed to have slowed down a bit.
Gotta have a little rust, it's all about balance! I don't think any of the clamps on the tbird were original, when I got it.
It does seem slow in this part of the forum these days. I'm in the process of gathering all the parts for the next round of swapping. 11" discs on all 4 corners, new coil springs and shocks, tubular a arms, lsd for the 8", monospring system, disc master cylinder, all new bushings everywhere, rack and pinion, and dropped 2". And of course some new wheels to clear the discs.
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So I finally got around to playing with the code reader. I got the innova 3145. I got some codes that I know are from egr and temp sender deletes, and some that I need to do some checking on (codes were 72 and 63). The timing check was fine. But I can't seem to get it to run a koer test, or maybe I just don't understand what's happening. It does engage the the throttle for second, but that's all, then about a minute later, the display goes blank, like it has turned itself off. I did read that I can't run the koer until after I get a code 11 on the koeo. But how is that even posible, given the swap mods? I'll be messing around with the other codes, that still have existing systems to mess with. I'm just a little befuzzled that I can't get the koer codes.
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What changes did you make to the stock system?
63 Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) signal too low
72 (R) No MAP or MAF change in "goose" test - retest, check for frequency or voltage change
Sub Notation: (M) 2.3L T/C - PCM re-initialized. Possible electrical noise, case ground or intermittent VPWR problem
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Hmm. What changes?
Delete list:
egr solenoid
temp sender
12v fans
ac clutch relay
(might be more, need more coffee)
Hardwired the fuel switch in premium position.
The tps was suspect before testing, might need replacing. The code 72 will require more investigation.
Other codes that I attribute to system mods:
o-51
o-84
c-51
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Is there a reason for the coolant temp sender code. Is it not functioning, you deleted/replace it? This is a LONG thread to go back through.
If I remember correctly to set the TPS you disconnect something (idle compensator???) and set the idle RPM on the throttle body. Then you adjust the TPS for one volt (as I recall 0.94 is recommended). I deleted the EGR and as best I recall the KOER test still initiated.
I also found it interesting because it seemed to initiate a cylinder balance test, but then, as someone pointed out, two injectors fire at a time in this system and it can't give an accurate result. All I can say is when I initiated the CB test the engine ran rough in a cycle that seemed to disable injectors firing - go figure. I also have the Innova 3145. I bought it after getting tired of counting light flashes (and confusing pauses) on the Equus 3143 and before that the CEL bulb. Not a task for those who have ADD. I don't and it was still befuddling at times.
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I deleted the temp sender to put in a mechanical temp gauge.
I just went through the tps process again. I had it at .94 when I originally tuned it, but it was at 1.17 when I just checked it. Put it at .94 again. It's a little smoother, but the afm is still showing a rich condition through all rpms. It idles at a perfect 1000 rpm. Still throwing the code 63, but I don't know if it needs more run time to recognize the adjustment. Haven't investigated the code 72 yet, not sure what to test yet, but that may be causing the rich mix.
Still no luck on the koer yet either.
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Tps tip.
The plug ends on mine were hard to get the micrometer probes to pig tail into. So I slipped the pin connectors out and attached 8" leads to the black and green pins, and put it back together, pulling the 8" leads thru the corresponding wire holes . I used a small gauge single wire, and crimped a butt connector on the other end of each. It allowed me set the probes in the open ends of the butt crimps, for easy tuning. Just tuck out of the way when not being used.
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Yea the TPS too low is odd given the 1.17 you found. Frankly I don't think it is too critical. I think it just needs to function in roughly the 1-5 volt range and the ECU learns to adjust. Now, maybe it is comparing to another sensor and the TPS "seems" too low for the other readings? I know some of those sensors look like they loop through each other (maybe they parallel???). I can see where the temp sensor will give a rich condition if the ECU thinks the coolant is cold. I'd look at finding a way to tap in the factory sensor even if it is a Tee in a hose.
All this has got me to thinking that if one has a number of potentiometers inline with the various sensors that there is likely some ability to tune the engine. Like in show a cooler coolant than it is and the engine richens up a bit. The deluxe version can use vacuum switches to trigger this effect on/of dependent on throttle input.
BTW, this thread is the only activity on the Turbo section since July 22, 2015. That other post regarded the Ranger cam and then on July 21st, 65 Shelby Clone posted. Where are the other Boost Spoolers???
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BTW, this thread is the only activity on the Turbo section since July 22, 2015. That other post regarded the Ranger cam and then on July 21st, 65 Shelby Clone posted. Where are the other Boost Spoolers???
I'm not surprised. I'm usually waayyy behind in everything. I probably missed this hey day by decades.
Good point on the temp sender. I wonder if I can just figure out the reading for a warm engine and mimic the signal?
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Gas mileage on my Pinto is about 36mpg and about 40mpg on my friends Mustang both with 2.3t. Tps voltage should be .84 to .96 at idle! And install the coolant temp sensor you are asking for trouble by trying to delete it! Also we have long ago left the stock ECU behind. Our 2.3's put out around 400hp on the ground! Also if you have done the swap properly and no sensor malfunctions you will only have the code for the egr.
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I'm not opposed to upgrading to the pimp or similar, but I'm not going for those kind of numbers. This is my daily driver. I didn't delete my circuit for the temp sender, just took out the factory sender and installed my mechanical gauge. I think I'll just have to reinstall the other one, and get a matching 12v temp gauge, instead of the mechanical.
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Where is your BAP sensor? Is it installed correctly? Post a pic of it as installed.
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36 to 40 MPG! WOW! My Fish carb on my Pinto will not do that good. Close but still less MPG's.
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Where is your BAP sensor? Is it installed correctly? Post a pic of it as installed.
I didn't change anything in the bap circuit, but it's been relocated in the cab under the dash. It's mounted at the same angle it was under the hood. Not sure it mattered, just didn't want to make a new bracket, so I modded the one it had. I'm putting the temp sender back in today, and re-testing.
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Cool keep us updated
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So I put the temp sender back in and ran all the tests again. She did much better! Still throwing the #84 in koeo, but that's it. It throws #25, #34, #75 in koer. So all is good in LA3land. Apparently the computer likes to know the engine temp as much as I do. Still running rich, by the afm readings. It does have a slight stumble, barely even noticeable, and the exhaust doesn't smell rich in the slightest. So I'm going to run it for while and keep an eye on things.
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Why have you not fixed 34 and 75 they are easy to fix? And now are the cause of most of your problems!!
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It's just an egr code and a code for the boo(brake system). There is no egr or fancy brake system.
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I disagree. But if you say so!!!
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According to the codes given, and the corresponding code definitions, that's all there is. Unless the computer and/or reader, or the manual are incorrect.
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Finally getting consistent code 11. It's running much smoother, and I'll bet it gets better mpg. Now I'm thinking about a manual boost control valve again.
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I'm, not exactly sure what the code 75 tests, but in the testing process you are suppose to tap the brake pedal. I think there is also a steering test where you move the wheel??? I never heard anyone say it was an issue in a swap. The code 34 EGR I'm guessing momentarily triggers the EGR to open and looks for the mixture ratio to change. I'd think it serves two purposes. One it let the ECU know the electric/vacuum circuit is working and two, it lets the tester know if the EGR might be clogged. Again, I never heard of EGR (other than leaking) being a problem in these swaps. When I removed mine I saw no difference in function though the removal certainly made the looks under the hood improve.
I'd also assume you were not getting a code 11 without the system seeing the coolant temp when the ECU went through its internal check list. My recollection from all my searches at NATO was that a miss (stumble) at idle seems to be very common and often not resolved. Anyway, it is good to see you are moving in the right direction.
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Before I replaced the ect, it was causing a few codes. But now I only get code 11(allegedly all good), and 25 (no knock detected during wot). I wanted to make the ecu as happy as possible... before causing other codes!
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25 Knock sensor not tested (ignore if not pinging) – KS
"Testing would involve simulating operating conditions by connecting a timing light, starting the engine and tapping the manifold next to the Knock Sensor with a hammer. You should observe the timing retard momentarily." From my understanding timing is pulled if the sensor is not functioning. This was general Ford information. I'm not sure how it applies to the T/C engine with an LA-3.
74 Was brake depressed after engine ID was received ? Brake On Off (BOO) signal open or short to ground – BOO
After a bit of searching it seems the primary purpose of the BOO is for an Automatic to release the converter lock-up. It may have other applications (cruise control release, testing brake bulbs, etc.) These latter seem more speculation than having proof.
Being you are running a T-5 I'd think the 74 Boo code seems irrelevant.
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Interesting. My book says 25 is "no knock detected during test".
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I'm not sure what the thing is about the full throttle test and the knock sensor. I do know it is to check the sweep of the TPS. Does that induce knock??? As stated the supposed KOER test is to (at some undetermined point) hit the intake manifold with a hammer to induce a frequency the knock sensor sees as engine knock. As stated you can also use the use the timing light and hammer whack to see if it is functioning (regardless of the testing in KOER).
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If I'm understanding the code definitions correctly, I think the 25 means the test was performed and there were no knocks to be detected during the test. If I don't do the wot test when prompted to, I get another code that says I didn't perform it correctly. It feels really smooth, and the response is great. I think it's about ready to mess with.
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Do any of you use an adjustable fpr? I'm looking at getting one, and a manual boost control. I'm getting a gillis for the boost control, but I'm looking for advice on the fpr. The prices are quite varied, and they don't seem to be too different. What are the proved performers? Or at least, which ones should be avoided? My fuel pump is an sp1154, it's a little more psi than the factory pump.
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Well... I'm ashamed to say, I lost my cool and the pinto is destroyed. Not wrecked, just shot, beaten and burned to the ground. Not my proudest moment. So I'll just thank all of you again... and bow out. Thank you.
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??? This isn't the way these stories are suppose to end.
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Ouch! So sorry to hear this! Is there any chance of salvaging anything?
Dwayne :)
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Wow, what a sad ending. :'(
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I'm not giving up just yet.
Had a little set back, but I'm not done.
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Good to hear that!!! Keep up the good work!!!
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Glad to hear that..
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Nice to have you back!
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Gathered up most of the parts for a front end rebuild w/big brakes and tubular a-arms etc.. And I finally found a reasonably priced 55" jag irs to cram in there too, after some restoration. Coming up with a sub frame plan for the irs, and some more reinforcements for the frame tie ins. Now I'm just waiting for the clouds to part this spring.
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I cleared out the bondo from the holes, and mounted a trunk badge. It's the only piece of trim on it, but it's all those chevy boys will need. They can know it was a Pinto that shattered that bow tie dream.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/edjones/2016-02-29%2016.47.01.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/edjones/media/2016-02-29%2016.47.01.jpg.html)
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Looks good..