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Author Topic: Taking the turbo plunge!  (Read 71685 times)

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Offline pinto_one

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #300 on: August 06, 2015, 07:06:13 AM »
It's still in control, it only delays the opening of the waste gate for higher boots ,  but don't get too greedy with it , 💥. Nice that you got it finished, and thanks for sharing your progress with us, it help others that are thinking of doing the same thing , now go and enjoy

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #301 on: August 06, 2015, 09:23:55 AM »
It's still in control, it only delays the opening of the waste gate for higher boots ,  but don't get too greedy with it , 💥. Nice that you got it finished, and thanks for sharing your progress with us, it help others that are thinking of doing the same thing , now go and enjoy

Not trying to get more boost out of her, just a little more delay before it starts spooling. Seems to start spooling at around 2400. I'd like to have it start at about 2900-3000.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #302 on: August 06, 2015, 01:21:50 PM »
Not sure what cam you are running, but with the Ranger Roller I'm "squeezing that last few drops out of the sponge" between 4,500 and 5,000 RPM. For sure by 5,500 RPM the "sponge is dry."  At least in hard throttle applications I feel more like I'm driving an old diesel truck that idles at 600 RPM and shifts at 1,200 RPM. It just seems like lag, BOOST, Shift, lag BOOST Shift etc.. Part of it may be my car. I'm still choking on a 2-1/4" exhaust.

From my experience I'd think that delaying the boost onset would be not be advantageous. I prefer to gently "lay into the throttle" and extend the feeling of acceleration. To that end I never found the 3.00 gears to be a detriment for that expressed purpose. They extended the acceleration process. The change to 3.40's was prompted by the need to be in a better RPM range specific to normal street speed.  I'm not racing or anything, just going for that "E Ticket" ride experience. So, we may be looking at different purposed.

As far as delaying boost I'd thing going away from the IHI turbo would help. As I understand it was selected to bring boost on earlier - though it wheezes out sooner. 

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #303 on: August 07, 2015, 10:11:29 AM »
Still have the stock cam and lifters. I'm not certain yet, but I'm thinking ranger cam, t3-t4, and the PiMP ecu as my first round of upgrades to the motor. I'm going to hold off on the boost control valve till I get my bigger wheels on. It could be just right if the larger wheels gets me the ratio I want.

I'm going to start the suspension and brake rebuild next though. It's become very clear that all of my bushings are shot, and not up to par with the capabilities of the car now(or before). I'm ordering a tubular A-arm and big brake kit up front, 2" drop. All 5 lug, front and back, via shortened 8.8(with discs) out back. And get a disc brake master cylinder put in. Considering going 4-link on the axle, but not sure yet.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #304 on: August 07, 2015, 03:40:16 PM »
Well looks like your on you way to the easy stuff, unbolt and bolt up , at least you can drive the car and make the small mods along the way , looking good and keep us posted , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #305 on: August 07, 2015, 05:18:57 PM »
Not trying to get more boost out of her, just a little more delay before it starts spooling. Seems to start spooling at around 2400. I'd like to have it start at about 2900-3000.

T3 upgrade time. That or leggier gears and more tire. I have to ask though, why have it spool later?

It isn't really going to be possible without going to a different turbo that has larger exhaust housings available. The other option is to find/adapt a wastegate actuator that opens lower than 10psi and modify the boost control bleeder orifice to make it peak at the same ~15-16psi. Retarding the cam will move the torque later in the revs a bit. The fastest and cheapest solution is to tighten the nut behind the wheel.  ;)

If you get a PiMP ECU, it can provide for boost based on RPM between the wastegate actuator's minimum setting and  however high it will hold without a boost signal. I have my MegaSquirt-II set to provide high boost (16psi) whenever.

Still have the stock cam and lifters. I'm not certain yet, but I'm thinking ranger cam, t3-t4, and the PiMP ecu as my first round of upgrades to the motor. I'm going to hold off on the boost control valve till I get my bigger wheels on. It could be just right if the larger wheels gets me the ratio I want.

Getting a turbo you can grow into is tough to do. A Ranger cam is also not an upgrade unless all you want is roller followers. Lots of people get hung up on the different lobe shapes, but actual events at the valve are indistinguisha ble from a stock turbo slider. A good aftermarket cam will be big bucks these days, unfortunately. I can hardly believe how much the prices have gone up recently.

Also, avoid TO4B-based compressors if you get a hybrid. They are ancient profiles and none of them are well-suited to the boost and flow requirements of the average 2.3T. There are many ways to identify them, but the easiest is by eight main blades on the compressor wheel.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #306 on: August 07, 2015, 05:36:49 PM »
My only complaint is the short tires are putting me at boost ranges when I'm at 35-37mph in 3rd... cruising down the street speed. Or lug 4th out. I think the bigger wheels will solve that.
 I haven't done a whole lot of studying on the mega squirt system, other that the pimp is basically a mega squirt(alledgedly same former software designer?), but tailored for the 2.3. I do look forward to getting that vam out of there!
 I'm not unhappy with the boost at all. I'm having a blast! Just need longer legs... And a roll cage!
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #307 on: August 07, 2015, 09:01:08 PM »
I find that the stock 3.55 rear end I'm using has a bit too much gear even with a T3 turbo. At this point I think 3.25s will be about right for my car, especially as power/torque increases.

The PiMP is a licensed MegaSquirt-based product. Stinger Performance produces it and the owner is on turboford.org frequently as am I. It was meant to be a plug 'n' play MegaSquirt-II conversion for '83-89 Ford 2.3T vehicles. Since yours is using a factory ECU, it should be plug 'n' play too.

IMO, the throttle response is far crisper and generally better with a speed-density system like the MegaSquirt/PiMP/etc.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #308 on: August 07, 2015, 09:43:11 PM »
I have an 8" rear end out of an m2. I don't know the gear ratio, but it was a perfect match for the 4sp., not so much the t5 and 13" wheels.

I have plenty of time to thoroughly study the ecu options, as I need to replace every bushing in the car, and spiff it up as I go thru it, before I play the horse power game.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #309 on: August 08, 2015, 12:51:27 AM »
"I find that the stock 3.55 rear end I'm using has a bit too much gear even with a T3 turbo. At this point I think 3.25s will be about right for my car, especially as power/torque increases."

I couldn't agree more. Granted that tire size is also a factor. Side rant - Why can't the industry come up with some other measurement that factors rear ratio AND tire size. Something on the order of driveshaft revolutions per 100 ft., or mile or whatever (end of rant)?  When I was looking for my 8" rear at Pick A Part I ran into the guy who who was snagging them all.  He told me except for some limited use, rare, car/year combination the 3.25 was hardly used by Ford. He said the likelihood of finding an 8" with that ratio was basically nil. So to get that ratio it likely won't happen with a junkyard center section swap. It requires purchase of new gears and the task or outside cost of installation.

 Otherwise it is 3.00, 3.40 or 3.55.  3.00 was OK as the turbo had the torque to pull that, but as I often complain they were miserable for regular "street speeds." You just couldn't find the right gear/rpm. I have 3.40's now and find them acceptable. I'm running 175-70-13" tires on Ralleye wheels and 65 MPH is 2,600 RPM in 5th gear. But at some point I'm bumping up to 205-60-13".... or .... [195/205]-60-14" if I can find another pair of SSP look a like wheels. Then I think I'll be even happier with the taller tires.  So, if your doing this one on the cheap I'd say 3.40's and tires taller than the basic 175-70-13".

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #310 on: August 08, 2015, 09:37:17 AM »
I just replaced the back tires, and I couldn't even find a 205-70-13, not without going for a coker or some other big$ tire. I ended up with 185-75-13 tires. They will do until my big wheel swap. The guys at the tire store didn't even believe I was running 205-70's, they hadn't seen any in decades.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #311 on: August 08, 2015, 12:23:15 PM »
That's what I have and 185/75-13 rubber is barely enough on dry pavement with a stock 2.3T.  8) On even damp pavement my Runabout will squirm through 4th gear.  :o A wagon might not, but I don't have one of those...

The 8" I found has typical 3.00 gears as well and transmission gear spacing is a concern that's been in the back of my mind for a long time. 3.00s will probably suffice for a while until I go with more gear, a T-Lok, and possibly taller/definitely wider tires.

Depending on the rear ratio and tire size of the donor, a gear ratio can be figured that will match the original car behavior-wise. I think the '87-88 5-speed 'Birds had 3.55s, so exactly matching the RPM at 60mph in 4th in a Pinto with our tire size would require a 3.19 rear ratio.

My older donor car had 3.45s and spun a little higher in 4th, so 3.22s would match the original characteristic s. Since 3.25s are the closest available ratio, the choice is obvious.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #312 on: August 08, 2015, 04:01:24 PM »
Is motorcraft still making spark plug wires for these? Or what is the best after market wire?
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #313 on: August 08, 2015, 05:59:50 PM »
I don't know if Motorcraft still has them, but the most common brands you're likely to see in a chain store (at least here) are Borg Warner (BW Auto), Bosch, and the house brand. I find a lot of the sub-$30 sets have very soft boots and sometimes the terminal will pull out of it and take the core too.

Taylor-Vertex, MSD, and Accel probably have good race-grade wires, but I haven't tried them.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #314 on: August 09, 2015, 12:46:40 AM »
I keep reading about other builds and their motorcraft wires. I can't seem to find any. I have msd street fire wires now. Not much more quality than the cheapos. I find a lot of posts about how picky the ignition system can be with these, and they all recommend the motorcraft plugs and wires. Maybe half of a 5.0l set?
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #315 on: August 09, 2015, 04:34:06 PM »
I have never heard that these ignition systems have any special needs myself. I think defective wires are probably a bigger concern than the name on them. Autolite 764 plugs are not the only ones that will work well in a 2.3T, but they are original equipment, cheap, and easy to find.

The quality of ignition components will become more important as power levels increase. Denser mixtures are harder to light off so the coil voltage rises higher before the plug fires which is more demanding of all the insulating parts.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #316 on: August 10, 2015, 01:14:17 AM »
I'm not having any issues, that I'm aware of(still have yet to run a diagnostic though). Just thought I'd try to eliminate weak links. I'll just get a sticker instead. Got 100 miles on it since the swap, no major issues at all. This makes me nervous...
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #317 on: August 10, 2015, 11:50:18 AM »
"Got 100 miles on it since the swap, no major issues at all. This makes me nervous..."

Be thankful for that.  Where as my Turbo swap fired up on the first twist of the key..., it had a miss at idle and ran totally crappy at about the 2,500 RPM range. I literally swapped every component, VAM, TPS, O2 sensor, temp sensors, TFI, distributor, coil, fuel pump, cleaned injectors, various hoses etc. - even the ECU and nothing made a difference. Nearly two years later on a whim I ran 12V directly from the battery to the coil and the problem went away.  I still don't know the cause, but the cure was to install a key switched relay directly from the battery to the coil.

So, be thankful and enjoy. :-)

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #318 on: August 10, 2015, 06:34:30 PM »
Where as my Turbo swap fired up on the first twist of the key..., it had a miss at idle and ran totally crappy at about the 2,500 RPM range. I literally swapped every component, VAM, TPS, O2 sensor, temp sensors, TFI, distributor, coil, fuel pump, cleaned injectors, various hoses etc. - even the ECU and nothing made a difference. Nearly two years later on a whim I ran 12V directly from the battery to the coil and the problem went away.  I still don't know the cause, but the cure was to install a key switched relay directly from the battery to the coil.

I think the TFI has dwell control built-in, so running coil power through a ballast resistor/resistor wire could cause that problem.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #319 on: August 10, 2015, 09:14:14 PM »
Yes, and to avoid troubles like that I opted to used the stock, 88 harness from the donor car. But, apparently not. There is a resistor wire in the TC harness (column), but I swapped the column too. Now, I did have to cut it (there was no other way of getting it out), but I soldered it and never altered its length.  Just one more mystery (and curse) of running a factory 87-88 harness. 76 HRP, did you use the stock coil and if so was there any resistor used?

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #320 on: August 10, 2015, 11:15:17 PM »
I used the factory coil power wire(tbird), aftermarket coil and a fancy racing toggle, no resistor. I ended up mounting the coil where the stereo would be. I'll be going mech-less when I do get around to the stereo.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #321 on: August 13, 2015, 01:48:10 AM »
I have a short video of it now. I just have to figure out how to post it. I've never posted one before.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #322 on: August 14, 2015, 11:41:33 PM »
I got my boost gauge and afm gauge installed. I had to swap a few around to satisfy my ocd, but I'm happy with the lay out now.





And here's a pic of some clouds, for those that may not have seen any for while.

1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 72DutchWagon

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #323 on: August 15, 2015, 03:52:04 AM »
On posting a video, the one on my project was the first time I did this; went to youtube, right top click upload, logged in with a gmail account, uploaded the video following the simple instructions, and copy pasted the youtube url of the vid in my Pinto post.
Hope this helps.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #324 on: August 15, 2015, 10:10:22 AM »
On posting a video, the one on my project was the first time I did this; went to youtube, right top click upload, logged in with a gmail account, uploaded the video following the simple instructions, and copy pasted the youtube url of the vid in my Pinto post.
Hope this helps.

So I need to make a youtube account? Will photobucket work? I use that for pics.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #325 on: August 15, 2015, 06:35:23 PM »
I fingered out the video posting deal... I think. So here is a short one. I'll post one of a joy ride, when I get a brave camera man. My first video, so don't expect any kind of quality.

1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #326 on: August 30, 2015, 01:45:35 PM »
(sound of crickets chirping)

Any of you guys running an oil catch system? I don't think I need it yet, but I hear they become necessary at higher boost levels, which is inevitable. If you do, what size can are you using? And what size toobs?
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #327 on: August 31, 2015, 07:02:05 PM »
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #328 on: September 01, 2015, 11:49:53 AM »
I don't yet, but this might offer some ideas:

http://stinger-performance.proboards.com/thread/732/fix-pcv-system-engine-blow

Perfect! Great info, thank you.

I haven't quite got the clutch broke in yet, but I let myself be goaded in to an excessive acceleration type situation with a lowered acura sporting a coffee can... my first victim! And I still have yet to really lay in to the throttle. This has been one of the more gratifying projects I've ever done.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #329 on: September 01, 2015, 04:47:17 PM »
Cool, but be safe. There was a guy on here a while back that had a grandpa like Squire Wagon, cheezy plastic hub cap, a beer box hiding his rear mounted battery - and a turbo conversion. He seemed to bait the Ricers too. There was an actually a web site about his car. Not sure how to link to it now.  But, yea, go PINTO!

Update: Found it. Click on the "more" when you get to the pictures for continuing information. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2167062/1980-ford-pinto/